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Buffy The Vampire Slayer S05E20 - Spiral FULL REACTION (Patreon)

Published:
2018-08-09 15:22:58
Edited:
2018-08-11 17:06:24
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Comments

Holi117

love this episode.... when spike grabs the sword....aweee.... and when he is being so nice to dawn and tara and stuff.... then epic army fight on a moving vehicle... and poor giles!!! I cant handle him so hurt and injured! and stupid ben!! stupid glory!! cant wait to see you reactions to the finale two episodes of the season and to hear your thoughts on the season as a whole xxx

WarRaven

I’m not ready to watch the next couple episodes...

Freddy Bowman

Shan, I so feel for you. This is how we all felt at the end of this one. This show is getting crazier and crazier as it winds this season down! I think you should watch the final two eps of just Buffy this week so you don’t drive yourself batty. You can take a break from everything else, but finish Buffy off. And no, I’m not saying that just because Buffy is my favorite show you are reacting to. Well... ok... maybe that’s a part of it. ;). Thanks for the great work you do! Take care. :)

Freddy Bowman

Oh, another cultural reference I wasn’t sure Shan might get. Xander kept talking about “Sgt. Rock.” Long-time comic book about a military hero.

HuntingSwan

So we gotta wait 2 weeks to see the next two episodes? That's gonna drive me crazy lol Well, if you need the time off I get it. I just look forward to THursdays so much lol

Anonymous

"Frying pans! Who knew?!" 😂 I love that the timeline of this joke is reversed for you, because when I saw that in Tangled I thought "Anya did!" Hehehe

James W

I've really enjoyed these past few episodes with you, it's great to see you smiling and enjoying yourself again 😊 shit is starting to get real, I can't wait for these next couple of episodes! But I will, and I don't mind. Good things come to those who wait 😁

James W
>>14545089

And also, I was totally on the same page as you when Anya hit that dude with the frying pan! Great minds think alike 😂

MittenCrab

I've watched this episode so many times and never made the Tangled connection...and I f&ing love Tangled!

Jarrod Wild

Buffy can't take the moral high ground about killing people anymore, and yet you know she'll try. The Knights of Byzantium have been kind of an annoying plot hole.

peggin
>>14550660

Yes, Buffy is absolutely still entitled to the moral high ground. She has the same right everyone else in the world has to self defense. She didn't attack those knights, they attacked her, and what the hell was she supposed to do? Just say, "oh, they're human, so I guess I have to let them kill me, my sister, and all my friends"? NO, of course not. Killing someone who is actively trying to kill you is always allowed.

Jarrod Wild
>>14550660

Well she was doing a pretty good job just throwing people off the truck. And remember she "killed" Ted in self defense and freaked out because she thought she had killed a human being. She's got superhuman powers and doesn't need to kill human beings in self defense.

peggin
>>14550660

She does when there's a thousand of them ganging up on her

Jarrod Wild
>>14550660

She was fighting maybe two at a time. A thousand (or even a dozen) is a little hyperbolic. Hey Batman (well, the Nolan version anyway) could fight a dozen people at once and not kill anyone, and he did it without super powers.

Jarrod Wild
>>14550660

That's one way to end an argument. Let's just agree to disagree, more civil that way.

Talmet
>>14550660

According to the Knight guy, there were 12 knights killed in that fight, which means either: 1) Throwing someone off of a moving vehicle kills every single one of them. 2) He's lying, thus we have no idea how many died (or even if any died). To try and figure out which one is true: First, the knights are wearing armor. This is a TV show/movie, so armor might not do anything, however maybe this might be one of the very few TV shows that understand that armor actually protects people who wear it. However, Buffy has super strength. So, the questions we have to answer: a) Are the knights wearing armor which is good enough to protect them from dying after falling about 3 meters, while traveling pretty slowly, and landing on dirt? I'd say yes, even if they weren't wearing armor this isn't a death blow, unless they landed on their heads or something. b) Are the Knights wearing armor good enough to protect them from a super strength endowed attacker? We have no way to answer this question, but as the Knights have been planning on attacking Glory, who has super strength, it would make sense for them to have as good of protection as possible. So, I'd say that unless people fell off the RV and landed on their head, they didn't die. Even the guy who took the axe to the chest, we aren't shown how deep the blade goes in, and we hear him yell "Ahhh" after being hit. So it isn't an instant-kill. I mean, Giles took a blade to the chest as well, and he isn't dead (yet). He is probably injured, perhaps mortally wounded, but it would be unlikely that the Knights have no medics. Oh, and in the whole episode, we don't even see 12 knights being attacked, let alone killed. There's only 3 knights that Buffy fights on the RV, 1 knight that Anya hits with the frying pan, 1 knight that Buffy knocks out and Xander drags out of the building, and the General who is knocked out. So...even if everyone Buffy and Anya hit dies, how'd the other 7 knights die?

Dipper
>>14550660

The dude with the axe in his chest died. That's pretty indisputable. :) And in terms of this debate, I don't really think the number of people killed is relevant. Bottom line: Buffy killed a human being. The question is whether it was justified or not, and whether her being the Slayer changes anything. So was it justified? Jarrod doesn't think so, and uses Ted as an example regarding why not. I would counter that that's a False Equivalence: Ted came after Buffy the teenage girl; the Knights came after Buffy in her capacity as a Slayer. Ted hit her, but he didn't use lethal force or show any indication that he planned to. The Knights were using weapons and their intent was very clearly to kill Dawn and anyone actively preventing them from killing Dawn. It was easily possible to stop Ted without killing him (or so Buffy thought at the time); the Knights, due to their numbers and tactics, were virtually impossible to stop without killing at least some of them. So I'd say she was justified. What about being the Slayer though, does that change anything? Buffy's role as the Slayer does hold her to a higher standard than an average person. I, for example, might be justified if two teenage gang members pull knives on me in an alley and I go all jujitsu to kill them in self-defense, whereas to Buffy, there's no real threat there - she could stop them as easily as an 8th grader can push down a kindergartner on the playground. The Knights of Byzantium, however, were so much of a threat that she technically lost the fight; Willow's spell is the only reason they didn't all die immediately, and without Glory eliminating the threat for them, their escape was extremely unlikely. So obviously, they were tough enough to be a true lethal threat to Buffy, even with her Slayer powers. So no, being the Slayer didn't change the dynamic - lethal force was necessary.

Jarrod Wild
>>14550660

It would be easier to agree with these points if, within the world of the show, Buffy didn't constantly claim "a slayer is not a killer". Maybe if she said "a slayer is not a killer, except in self defense of course", but that sounds kind of silly. Also I would argue with Ted that he would have used lethal force if given the opportunity before Buffy sent him down the stairs. I still can't agree that lethal force was necessary though. Again, she is superhuman, she has a natural advantage, and she can take on multiple human beings without issue. It's true that once they were essentially trapped, they were in trouble, but they already had a plan to bring up a barrier (Willow said they had to be stationary). Again I bring up the example of Nolan's Batman, who could fight a dozen armed people with his fighting skills, and without superpowers, and without killing anyone.

Richard Lucas
>>14550660

But also, you are assuming Buffy intended to kill that knight. Perhaps she threw it intending to knock him off, thinking his armor would protect him. I think intent is important. I think she didn’t deliberately try to kill them, are you saying you can never picture Buffy being in a situation where she might have to kill to protect innocents?

Richard Lucas

I didn’t notice it the first time I saw this episode, but the 2 priests remind me of the 2 priests in Ralph Bakshi’s cult 70s animated movie Wizards. And about as effective. Here is the scene from youtube <a href="https://youtu.be/KC0IQA5OUAA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/KC0IQA5OUAA</a> Here is the opening of the movie which I consider amazing <a href="https://youtu.be/eMSOouOkCic" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/eMSOouOkCic</a>

Timotey Kuhn

That was a very nice start to the theme song... ;) :P

Jarrod Wild
>>14550660

I can buy the idea that she accidentally killed the knight. I think *Buffy* can never picture being in a situation where she might have to kill human beings to protect innocent people, at least as of this episode. I better be careful how much I say. :) It's not so much my moral code I'm arguing about here, it's Buffy's.

Shauni Livingstone

Buffy actually killed a human before, gwendaline post, faiths watcher. And I guess u could say there was intent to murder when she repeatedly attacked ted even after he stopped fighting back, she just got lucky that he was a robot lol

Will

That's very dangerous, driving with most of the windows covered up. It's a wonder they aren't pulled over. ;)

Bellatronics
>>14538699

I could never understand why Ben replied to the call or at least didn't get away as soon as he'd done what he could for Giles. Yes, Giles needed medical support, but he knew he was putting everyone's lives in danger by staying. Course, we 'now' know he's not such a good guy and has his dark side - but at this point that wasn't drawn out, and he was very distressed that he was gonna turn into Glory and tried to get away - when it was too late, the prat!

Anonymous
>>14666158

She cut off her hand and the lightening killed her. Totally didn't count.