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Hi Folks,

Wine, wax, woad and yes, There Will Be Blood... all in an effort to discover the best ancient marking fluid. (And I'll let you decide how the blood supply issue might have been dealt with in the ancient shop - I'm guessing it might not have been much fun being the apprentice on the day the large dial was marked out!)

Please enjoy,

Chris.


Direct links to the video -


-------------- Video Notes: ---------------

Related Videos:

The Antikythera Mechanism Episode 4 - Making And Fitting B2 - https://youtu.be/ty-xxavBRcs

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Antikythera Fragment #8 - Ancient Tool Technology - Layout Line Visibility

Antikythera Fragment #8 - Ancient Tool Technology - Layout Line Visibility, by Clickspring. Wine, wax, woad and yes, There Will Be Blood... all in an effort to discover the best ancient marking fluid. And I'll let you decide how the blood supply issue might have been dealt with in the ancient shop - I'm guessing it might not have been much fun being the apprentice on the day the large dial was marked out! If you would like to help support the creation of these videos, then head on over to the Clickspring Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/clickspring ________________________________________________________ A very special thank you to Patrons: Sinking Valley Woodworks (http://www.sinkingvalleywoodworks.com) Glenn Trewitt Christopher Warnock Mike Manfrin Peter John Richardson James Kuhn Niels Palmann Steven R. Crider John A McCormick David Wurmfeld Lonnie Koehn Michael Harmon Jim Popwell Gary Levario Rollin W. Patrick, Jr. Pete Askew Andre van Soest Larry Pardi Bernd Fischer Rudolph Bescherer Jr Adam Slagle Jeremiah G. Mort Olof Haggren Tim Bray ________________________________________________________ -------------- Video Notes: --------------- References: Traditional India Ink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qza1Jz2g8FQ Related Videos: The Antikythera Mechanism Episode 4 - Making And Fitting B2 - https://youtu.be/ty-xxavBRcs Amazon Affiliate links: Cameras: Panasonic GH5 - https://amzn.to/2rEzhh2 Panasonic X920 - https://amzn.to/2wzxxdT Tools & Shop Products: Dykem blue: http://amzn.to/2plmLlx Optivisor Headband Magnifier: http://amzn.to/2HFg1FU Norton 1-by-2-by-8-Inch Fine/Coarse India Combination Oilstone, Red: http://amzn.to/2tTEPb0 Books: Workshop practice Series: http://amzn.to/2DyPs2D Machinery's handbook: http://amzn.to/2pi7XE5 Antikythera Fragment #8 - Layout Line Visibility, by Clickspring.

Comments

Anonymous

Hey Chris looks like the privacy settings on this vid are a bit scuffed mate. its saying it can't be played in the US.

Gregor Shapiro

Sweden is good. Chris, what do you mean by comment "below this one"? When writing this (18 minutes after that comment) it is directly below it. Great vidor and exceptional dedication to testing possibilities. As Occam and Einstein pointed out the simplest is the most likely. dirt or soot spit or blood piss or earwax seem likely candidates.

Anonymous

Impressive! very high production value and awesome content! Thank you Chris!

clickspring

Thank you mate - Yes the smudge mark is a winner, loved some of the others too!

Iain Deas

So Chris is also a master engraver, reads and writes in Ancient Greek. I bet you’re that annoying guy on the street with a perfect lawn and not a weed in sight 🤣 on another note the drying time would probably be made obsolete just by putting the part in the sun. I recon all of those would dry in a minute or so in direct sunlight. Especially in summer.

clickspring

Ha ha! mate my yard is a bloody disaster! Yes agreed on the drying times, will try out a bit of sunlight and see how it goes - Cheers :)

Anonymous

Very interesting video again Chris, it's certainly something I've never given much thought before. PS: can't say I'm too much of a fan of the vimeo player, the YouTube player is much more convenient (especially on phones)

Anonymous

The new player definitely has stutter issues, I have to agree with you there

Anonymous

Wonderful as always Chris, although the player definitely had stutter issues

James Cuddihy

I am having trouble watching the video. Can watch Youtube no worries but having buffering issues at 380p on this one.

Al

Hey Chris, Long time lover of your videos, first time commenting. The stuttering experienced when watching this completely destroys the relaxed feeling i get from watching your videos. Why have you switched formated? Thanks Al

Anonymous

not a fan of the video player, seems like the only size options are post stamp size or full screen. also a pain to have to sign in to patreon to view it. if you are having problems with people sharing your unlisted youtube videos then I'd understand.. otherwise I vote youtube love the video by the way, it must have taken months to source all the materials

Anonymous

woOT!! my first video after becoming a supporter. Love your work Chris. Very inspiring.

Matt Mills

It's quite possible that you can get a good supply of blood from a butcher; pig's blood probably has the same properties, and is much less dear.

clickspring

Mainly for the improved video quality (YT squashes the image quality), but also for the additional redundancy from YT - I'll see what I can find out about the stuttering issue - Cheers :)

Phil Sydor

Excellent Chris - Master engraver, master chemical engineer, master maker etc. Your skills are inspiring!

Derek McAllan

Fascinating video Chris, very interesting to see such a thorough dive into the theoretical options available to those in days past!

Markos Skoulatos

I am deeply impressed, not only for the plethora of techniques presented, but also with the end (test) result. My favourite method is the one including the ingredient of Μαστίχα Χίου. It also seems very authentic and would like to see more about it if time permits. Well done mate! Ευχαριστούμε για την προσφορά σου, φίλε ελληνιστή!

clickspring

Ha ha! ευχαριστώ! I agree that one was excellent - will definitely be using that again on camera. - Cheers :)

Sean Kirby

Excellent. First video for the year. :) Sadly, as for others, it is unwatchable due to incredibly slow buffering from Vimeo. Even on Auto setting it is stuttering almost continuously. I have never had much success with Vimeo, for exactly this awful buffering problem. I have pretty much given up trying to watch videos there. Also, I don't have the fastest connection. It is usually only good for a reliable 720 on YouTube. So I prefer to download the 1080 version from YT to my drive, then watch it locally. However that is not an option for Vimeo as I can't get a source URL from the embedded video to download it. Do agree the picture quality is noticeably better on Vimeo. Though I am happy enough with YT's quality as well. It is certainly an acceptable trade off if I can watch it without stuttering, plus the download option. Can you also upload a copy to YT? (I know your internet connection isn't the fastest either.) Cheers Sean

Paul Busby

Another great video Chris. I can only imagine how much time and effort it took to source all the stuff to do all the testing. The video ran fine for me (full screen). What was the reasoning for switching to Vimeo? Only curious.

Mike Michelizzi

I must be the lucky one that had no issues with vimeo. I hope you can work out the teething problems quickly since you put so much effort into coming up with and making the videos. This was another interesting and enlightening one - thank you!

Mr Bryce Stoddart JP

Excellent video as always. After reading the comments I when back and watch it again on 1080 but got no stuttering at either 1080 or 720.

Anonymous

Very instructional content Chris, many thanks. No stuttering here!

Jeff Armstrong

Brilliant video again. I don't see any supply problems with blood as a marking fluid. You don't have to use human blood. My better half is an amateur archaeologist of the period and her work shows that butchery was a common practice at the time. Pigs and sheep both would provide a suitable marking out fluid. The egg tempera using soot would also work. It has been used as an artist's medium for centuries. Like the others I'm not keen on the Vimeo player and was disappointed to see it used.

Anonymous

Talk about going above and beyond. Awesome work, Chris.

Jay Holmes

Excellent working through of many options!

Anonymous

Your dedication to your projects never ceases to amaze me my friend. Keep up the good work Chris!

Anonymous

Sorry, it is unwatchable as it pauses every few seconds. Edit... after leaving it paused for a while, I was able to continue with only a few hiccups.

ReggX

To be honest, I'm not really happy about the vimeo embed. I vastly prefer the old style of being able to click the link and watch the video on youtube, where player size is perfectly adjusted to display a full 1080p video while still being able to do other things.

Martin Anderson

(This is just to say that I had no particular difficulty watching this episode. Merely a counterpoint.)

Anonymous

Is the next Fragment going to be "Speaking Ancient Greek" ?

Anonymous

Would appreciate it very much if you'd post to YouTube as well as Vimeo. I watch all my usual content on my television with an Apple TV, so I have a playlist set up in YouTube to watch these things. Much less convenient to have it in Vimeo.

Luther

Once again excellent work. An accent glue was made by pine pitch, beeswax,and charcoal in equal parts. Maybe changing the ratios would turn this into a better marking fuild. Not sure just an idea. You have done a great job again.

clickspring

Hello mate - Yes I think what's happening is the better quality Vimeo picture is coming at the cost of higher bandwidth requirement on delivery. The vids will always go up to YT as well, so in future I'll put a direct link to both in the text of the post so you have the option to choose which one you want to use - Many thanks for the detailed info :)

clickspring

Terrific to hear that Paul, and so pleased you enjoyed it :) Re Vimeo: A recent spate of false copyright claims pushed me to look for some redundancy on video delivery, with Vimeo standing out on pic quality - Cheers :)

clickspring

Thank you mate - Re the player: I will post a link to both YT and Vimeo in the text of future posts so you can choose your preferred option - Cheers :)

clickspring

Thanks for the info mate, much appreciated. It looks to be a bandwidth issue related to the higher pic quality on Vimeo. I will post with both a YT and Vimeo link in future so you can choose - Cheers :)

clickspring

Understood mate - I will post a link to the YT version in the text of future posts - Cheers :)

clickspring

Yes I agree Michael, that's the best solution - I will post the link to both YT and Vimeo so you can pick what best suits you - Cheers :)

Jon Raymond

I really dislike the move to Vimeo solely due to the fact that viewing via Chromecast is a real pain.

Anonymous

The text in the end on the plate.... is that perhaps "Please subscribe" in latin :) ?

Anonymous

I'd love if you still cross posted them to youtube so I can add it to my (private) playlist so I can watch them all without shuffling through this site. Totally understand not wanting to rely on youtube though, they are clearly not protecting their creators

Stefan

Awesome, Chris! Your dedication to your projects is amazing! I have no problem with vimeo. I actually prefer the player and the higher video quality makes it even better :) but I also have a fast enough internet connection ;)

clickspring

Hello mate - yes the vids will still be posted to YT, the YT upload is in progress now, and should be up by tomorrow. In future I will add links in the post text to both the Vimeo and YT versions so you can choose how you'd prefer to view them - Cheers :)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

This could make a very decent academic paper. Very well done.

Anonymous

Hey Chris, how about carbide lamps? That's what we use in rifle shooting to keep sights a deep flat black.

Anonymous

Your work is outstanding. Top notch! Cheers

Aidan Jeffes

Thank you for posting up a YouTube link Chris ☺ I've never had any luck with Vimeo unfortunately

rolf redford

Fantastic video. :) Will it be public evenually? Because unfortunately unlisted videos doesn't even get autocaptions. :)

Anonymous

The amount of patience and ambition you show in these projects are inspiring. I wonder, do you treat your projects like an "everyday job", kind of "grinding away" or do you just have it? 'It' meaning what seems an almost endless amount of discipline and inspiration. What's your approach to managing these tasks? I like the higher A/V quality on Vimeo!

A1BASE

Why the move to Vimeo, Chris? Personally I have horrible issues streaming anything from that website.

clickspring

Ha ha! And the clean FNQ air! Will give the egg white a try - Cheers :)

clickspring

Awesome! Its a massive improvement over YT quality. Re the project process: I treat it as a full time job - usually a bit of testing, prototyping etc to figure out any problems beforehand and then dive into it - Cheers :)

clickspring

To get some redundancy from YT, and also for the better video quality - In future I will post links to both versions so that you can choose - Cheers :)

Bob Vines

Chris, For the marking materials that either took too long to dry or wouldn't dry, what if you tried using heat by placing the marked parts above a heated flat piece of metal? Would that still cause bluing?

Kevin Reardon

I'll be watching this one a few more times. They used urine (ammonia) quite a lot in leather work, so no doubt they found out it stains brass. But they did use wax tablets as scratch pads, so its an easy travel from that to putting wax on metal. I think the winner is anything based in wax. You would not make the marks and then spread stuff over to see them.

Gottfried Schuss

Hi Chris, New title for you: The Archeological Machinist. Or something similar. I think there is a multidisciplinary PhD with your name on it waiting for you to take the plunge. I like the notion of dyed or pigmented shellac as a layout marking aid / fluid. A lot. It dries quickly, leaves a crisp line, etc. Not to belabor a point, but shellac has been around for a long time. Solvent is another issue. Jacking (as in apple jack or jacked beer) has also been around for a long time - much longer than distillation. This is essentially concentration by fractional freezing. Set a barrel of beer out on a cold night, next morning remove the ice (mostly water ice). The beer's alcohol content has increased in relation to the water removed in the ice. This is a first order approximation -- some alcohol is also removed with the ice. Repeat. Granted Greece, in this sense, suffers from a Mediterranean climate. But, they traded with folks from cold climates. Eventually you get to the eutectic point of the system, which I don't know for water / alcohol. This is the point at which the alcohol water mixture freezes together. It's analogous to the azeotropic concentration of a mixture of water and alcohol. E.g., pure ethanol can't be obtained by distillation. The best one can do is about 97% ethanol. So, question remains, can one sufficiently jack beer to obtain a solvent for shellac? I'm not expecting you to experiment in this direction, but I so like the notion of shellac that I will ponder this for a while.

A1BASE

I think the problem with any solvent based solution would be evaporation. Using jacking to produce a high ethanol solution would not be a quick process and I doubt they had air-tight sealed containers available back then. You'd lose most of the ethanol you produced almost as fast as you produced it, I'd imagine.

Anonymous

What tools would I need to hand engrave comic sans?

clickspring

Hey Bob - I'm sure a modest heat of some sort would probably improve drying times - Cheers :)

clickspring

Yes a great many possible combinations to test out around wax and some sort of pigment - Cheers mate :)

Anonymous

I respect your diligence in regards to testing all these things. Must have cost a packet getting all that stuff to Aus.

Ralph McCoy

Chris, I am quite late with this but what about animal blood ? It would be easier to get, and less painful, not for the donor ! Ralph

Graeme Brumfitt

If I was an apprentice @ the time I would have been honoured to give my blood knowing it went into the making of such a device :) G

Anonymous

I like it, the attention to detail is something else!

Strothy2

I think we can all agree that Blood is the most Metal way to go!

John S Dilsaver

I'm really enjoying and learning a lot from your 'experimental archeology' approach to so many aspects of this project. Even though we have some knowledge of antiquity this work emphasizes the enormous amount we don't know.

clickspring

Me too John - There is so much technique and craft implied in the features of this one little machine its amazing. I'm doing some more testing of some possible ancient methods over the next week or so in prep for some more Fragments videos like this one - Cheers :)

Anonymous

Might be blood from the local butcher shop, fresh that day

Anonymous

Well blimey, where have you been all my life? I discovered your channel over Christmas and having now seen quite a lot of your work I feel like I can confidently say that Clickspring is the best channel out there on youtube in any genre. The videos are as well thought out and crafted as the projects you are filming. Incredible stuff.

Anonymous

I repair antique clocks and have a good understanding of the mechanical movement. I have never fabricated a clock of my own. I have a desire to do so now, but lack the required equipment. I have a lathe and a drill press and everything else I do by hand. All the best, Sean

Damien Towning

Does this mean that in the Bronze age they had the ability to make small amounts of steel for these cutting tools?

clickspring

Hello Damien - Its possible, but I wouldn't say that the mechanism supports that idea, as the machine dates to well past the Greek Bronze Age (the wreck dates to approx 100 BC). There is some fragmentary evidence from the early Roman period for case hardened iron tools, but not much prior that I am aware of - Cheers :)

Duncan Luddite

The time lapse of the egg yolk and Woad in the petrie dish, while the painted brass slab dried, was very interesting with a pulsing, surging action. I would expect this sort of reaction if the time lapse went over several days with the pulsing corresponding to the differences in day/night temperatures and effecting the evaporation rate, but it was only over a period of minutes! Curious.