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[STATUS] - January 2019 (Update Jan 23rd, 8:30pm AEST) (Patreon)

Published:
2018-10-03 03:30:39
Edited:
2022-06-02 22:48:10
Imported:

Downloads

Content

(Update Jan 23rd, 8:00pm AEST)

Putting some of the India Ink buttons I made in the line visibility vid to good use in this next video (Short Video) 

   ----------------------------  

(Update Jan 19th, 6:00pm AEST)

I have spent the last week testing out a hunch about how a series of very challenging cuts within the mechanism may have been made, and I now have a good working prototype of the tool to demonstrate the idea - A new fragments video all about making and using it is now in progress.

   ----------------------------  

(Update Jan 3rd, 6:30pm AEST)

Shooting complete for the next video, a deep dive on possible marking out materials in preparation for the main dial work - narration and graphics to come over the next 2 days

   ----------------------------  

(Update Dec 20th, 9am AEST)

A follow up fragments vid is in progress on potential marking out materials. One of the methods I've tested so far is copper sulphate for marking up ferrous metals - also grows spectacular crystals from solution.

  ---------------------------- 

(Update Nov 23rd, 5:30pm AEST)

A Jewellers Hammer just prior to heat treating. Full drawings and how-to in the next TGT.

  ---------------------------- 

(Update Nov 20th, 8:30am AEST)

(Short Video) No mill? No problem, go old school - cross-slide milling

  ---------------------------- 

(Update Nov 16th, 5:00pm AEST)

Putting together the next TGT as a set of  *5 4 fun lathe/mill projects - all super useful tools that you will keep for a lifetime.

*edit - decided to hold one over as better suited to another video

  ---------------------------- 

(Update October 29th, 6:30pm AEST)

The final shots for BSC Ep#9 are complete with editing to come over the next few days - An in depth look at fine detail etching. 

  ---------------------------- 

(Update October 14th, 6:30pm AEST)

Testing on some scrap is the key to getting the performance numbers for an etching system - full details in the next BSC Ep.

  ---------------------------- 

(Update October 9th, 8:30am AEST)

Some localized silvering of the "eclipse season" arc on the Solar Node Display Ring.

  ---------------------------- 

(Update October 4th, 6:00am AEST)

Good arguments from all regarding the name ties, and here's my thinking on the choice:

The device is essentially a modern interpretation rather than a reconstruction, so the precedent of the surrounding modern names provides good guidance. I do see the logical inconsistency that Greenwich is a borough of London, but its kinda hard for a clock guy to go past the significance of Greenwich... We'll call that one a makers pick and we can argue about it for years to come :) so Greenwich & Istanbul it is!

Regarding the name order, the original device shows no particular structure other than to place Constantinople first, presumably due to its importance during the period it was made. A modern user would likely expect to see the list alphabetized, so I've done that and also left (center?) justified the text as per the original. The exception is Washington, D.C. due to length, but I think its still works ok given its position:   BSC Latitude Dial - Northern Hemisphere.pdf

For those constructing along in real time, I will publish editable versions of the southern, northern and universal dial artwork with the next plan drop, so you can solve the city name and formatting dilemma to your complete satisfaction  - Cheers :)

  ---------------------------- 

OK, I'm making a start on etching the dials for the Byzantine Sundial Calendar, and the final city list for the front dial is in - 


Tokyo  3.86%  (317 votes)

London  3.6%  (295 votes)

New York  3.18%  (261 votes)

Rome  2.86%  (235 votes)

Moscow  2.71%  (222 votes)

Athens  2.57%  (211 votes)

Paris  2.5%  (205 votes)

Greenwich  2.47%  (203 votes)

Beijing  2.46%  (202 votes)

Alexandria  2.44%  (200 votes)

Zürich  2.4%  (197 votes)

Constantinople / Istanbul / Byzantium  2.23%  (183 votes)

Hong Kong  2.08%  (171 votes)

Amsterdam  2.02%  (166 votes)

Washington, D.C.  2.01%  (165 votes)

Jerusalem  1.96%  (161 votes)

1st reserve: San Francisco  1.89%  (155 votes)


I will post a copy of the dial artwork shortly, so that you can help me proof check it for typo's etc.

But before I do that a couple of quick questions for you: 


  • How would you suggest representing Constantinople / Istanbul / Byzantium? Let me know which of the three options strikes you as most logical, and why.
  • Same for Greenwich or London - which is more logical to include and why. (Is there a case for both to be included?)


Cheers,

Chris.

Files

Comments

David Tawater

Istanbul. Simply put, there are less letters to contend with. Constantinople would be like fitting a four bedroom house into a New York studio apartment. Same for London. I'm speaking from a purely letter real estate perspective.

Matt Brauer

"Byzantium" was never a term used by the Byzantine empire. I'd vote for Constantinople or Istanbul.

Stubbs

Byzantium, as it's the Greek incarnation and this is a Greek calculator. I'm more partial to Greenwich as it's more a worldwide standard than just being London's time zone, but could be swayed either way

Matt Brauer

Also, a vote for Greenwich OR London. Not having both would free up space for the sole North American West Coast city on the list. (Personally I like Greenwich for its astronomical significance.)

bo

Istanbul from a number of letters perspective. As there are other modern city names on the list going for historical accuracy is perhaps a poor motivator. Personally I like Greenwich versus London - the name evokes the history of Western time and timekeeping, thus tying your reproduction of this ancient device to modern times. My .02, Chris, do what you like!

Jeff Armstrong

An Aussie here - I'd vote for Greenwich instead of London as this is the basis of all time zones. I'd need to look it up but use Constantinople which is the name it had when it was founded (a 1000 years after our little toy). Of the others choose an example from each time zone. Some of these options all share the same time zones (Rome, Athens, Paris) so use Athens (Greece) and leave out the others. This leaves room for others from Asia and the Americas. Of course there MUST be an Australian city as well! I would understand if you chose Brisbane, but Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra all have good claims.

Gregor Shapiro

Greenwich (no London), Byzantion (perhaps not Byzantium).

CHAD F

Constantinople—as far as I understand, it was the name contemporary with the device and was the the version used officially by the Romans and the Ottomans. Versions of Istanbul were mostly used by the Romans and Ottomans to refer to a subsection of the city. If this were a modern clock, as opposed to a period piece, Istanbul would make more sense.

Anonymous

I like Londinium. If I have my dates right, London was likely still Londinium at the time of the sundial calendars. However, San Francisco and New York certainly didn't exist, so perhaps London would make more sense for the sake of consistency, making this a modern iteration of an ancient machine. For the same reason, I throw my vote in for Istanbul, as it is the modern name for the city, and therefore the most consistent with the rest.

Anonymous

Greenwich and Constantinople instead of London and Instanbul in my opinion but as mentioned if real estate is tight and the layout looks better not being crunched in, then Instanbul is fine too.

Alex Holierhoek

Random question: how is the wood base of the skeleton clock keeping up

clickspring
>>16000180

Good so far, its more stable than I expected but will know more after a few more wet seasons.

WOND3rGnome

Some of the places didn't exist when the original was made. So my thoughts are use the names we use today.

Matthew Leigh

It's nobody's business but the Turks!

Kyle Thompson

I would vote Greenwich as opposed to London. Not knocking London here, but Greenwich is the basis for all of Earth’s established lines of longitude. Kind of a big deal. The inclusion of New World cities means I would prefer Istanbul over its historical alternatives, if only for the sake of consistency.

Bob Ogden

Nothing from the southern hemisphere?

clickspring
>>16001335

Hi Bob - The original device was constructed with a northern hemisphere dial, so to stay relatively consistent with that I'm making this one a northern hemisphere dial too. The prototype that you see at the start of each video has a southern hemisphere dial, and I will publish that artwork along with a universal northern/southern dial as part of the plans - Cheers :)

Scarlet565

I agree with Kyle in regards to Greenwich. Although I feel having Byzantium on the dial is more authentic.

Adam Seymour

I think that the inclusion of modern and historical names makes no sense. Having Byzantium just sticks out like a sore thumb. Constantinople is still used enough that it is not too bad but it is a bit insulting to Turkish people - they have been pushing to be called Istanbul since the 1920s As for Greenwich or London it makes no sense to have Greenwich as it is a borough of London, it's like having Brooklyn instead of new York or Shinagawa instead of Tokyo. Greenwich mean time would work but then you would have EST etc.

Sean Kirby

Greenwich, because it's Greenwich Mean Time, not London Mean Time, and everybody has heard of GMT. Not sure about the other one, because I don't know the history of that area or era. But seeing as you call it the Byzantine Sun Dial, maybe some version of that name. Or whatever was the name at the time the device was made.

Leo G.

I would label Byzantium as exactly that. This is the "Byzantine" Sundial, is is not? As to the Greenwich / London question, I would argue for Greenwich. It is the official location for the observatory that marks our current astrological timekeeping, and makes a nice tie in with old and new. It's a subset of London, sure, but try visiting New York and asking someone from the Bronx if they grew up in Queens. I will not be jumping to pay the dentist bill to have your teeth put back in place...

Bob Ogden
>>16001335

Ok, I forgive you 😀. Besides it would be hard to interpret elponitnatsnoC

Christian Thiel

You're using the modern western names for everything else so I'd go with Istanbul.

Bruce Weller

I am with the Greenwich/Byzantium vote celebrating both the origins of the device and the history of UTC/GMT

Angel Rodriguez

I'd stick with original names whenever possible. So, I would vote for Greenwich and Byzantium.

Koos Jorritsma

Hello Chris, I would vote for Greenwich only and omit London. One representation for the UK surely must be enough and GMT is a good and working concept. As for geopolitical reasons I would vote for Byzantium.

Kendall Austin

What? No Tombstone, AZ? I feel insignificant now....

Bora Gurel

Well, to be honest with you, "Istanbul" is not really the "Turkish, modern" name for the city (I'm Turkish), it really doesn't mean anything in Turkish. It's what the local Greeks had been calling the city when we first arrived (eis tin polin: into the city). "Konstantiniyye" (Constantinople) was used up until the end of the empire as the most formal official name in Ottoman Turkish. And since we're calling London "London" and not "Londinium" and old New York is not "New Amsterdam", it would be nice if Istanbul was on that dial. :) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul</a>

Andy Pugh

Greenwich is in London. The traditional centre point of London is Charing Cross, which is 0.12 degrees west of Greenwich. Given that London spans a good 0.5 degrees of Longitude I think that Greenwich (as the site of the Royal Observatory and the datum point for navigation) is both a more definite location and a more historically interesting one. So I would go for Greenwich only. Is it too late to vote for Atlantis :-)

Iain Deas

The device is a few thousand years old yeah? Greenwich only became significant from a time / date perspective in the late 1600’s so long I’d go London just because it was around back then...

Mark Roberts

Etched? Not engraved??? :-)

Hector P. Valenti star of stage and screen

So, I didn't vote, but looking at the list I think there's a good argument for San Francisco over DC just on geographic diversity grounds.

Stephen Behan

You should use Greenwich for London (it's the home of the prime meridian) and Byzantium (historically more accurate than either Constantinople or Istanbul).

Frank Kreidemaker

I would go with Constantinople as it was the worlds largest and wealthiest city from the 5th century to the 13th century. Pretty cool.

Richard Betel
>>16005134

I have to disagree. They are very different for one simple reason: GMT has no daylight savings time; London does. When dealing with people and computers internationally, I cannot begin to explain how many times I've been bitten by the fact that Londoners seem incapable of (or just unwilling to) understand the 60 minute difference between GMT and BST. That said, I'm not sure which choice does a better job of reinforcing the truth, assuming these devices were to become commonplace enough to have an impact on the average Londoner's psyche...

Andy Pugh
>>16005134

I was taking purely in terms of geography, why are you bringing the abomination that is "Daylight saving time" into the discussion?

Rich Cizik

I would say definitely Greenwich over London as GMT is the start of the time zones. Byzantium makes more sense with this as that is what the place was called when it was a Greek colony.

Skye Leake

Greenwich over London due to its significance on the 0 meridian, Constantinople is my vote.

Matthew Leigh
>>16004617

Did you pick New York/New Amsterdam at random or because of the song? :)

Keith Curtis

I think you should consider Flagstaff Arizona. The reason I suggest such an out of the way place is simple. The Lowel observatory is in Flagstaff and they were the ones that discovered Pluto. A good astronomical link.

Keith Curtis

Concerning the question of Constantinople, I think you should use the name that is correct for the period of the piece. You are trying to make it as period as possible, then it should use the name from that period.

Gordon Burns
>>16005480

If we are splitting hairs, here, many cities on the list simply didn't exist in those days (principally, but not restricted to the Americas) including the city of Tokyo, which was not then built, the capital being Kyoto. Moscow and Paris probably didn't exist at the time since most of Europe will have been barbarian. So what do we do now, sir?

Gordon Burns

Chris, mate, you are clearly using modern city names on this one, plus cities that didn't exist at the time, to by default, it has to be Istanbul. Q.E.D.

Iain Deas
>>16005480

Not sure if you intended too but you come across as an arrogant prick, sir. Chris’s question was whether to go with London or Greenwich. This is my suggestion and reasoning behind it. The same reasoning you gave for using Istanbul. QED. If you want to stick to just the ancient cities feel free to make one yourself.

Toby Keane

Greenwich in place of London and Byzantium for sure

Clement holm hempel

I would also have to say Byzantium, as it is a great nod to the heritage of the device

Spirit of the Warrior

Hi, Chris, I just became a Patreon member of yours today, after watching several of your videos on YouTube. Your work is definitely impressive, and I admire the dedication. I have even learned a few things from the videos that help me in my own work. But I do have a question... For the rectangle bluing tray you made, what were the dimensions of the sheet / plate of brass you used. I can make a small 2" diameter round one (one of the few large pieces of stock I have), but I could definitely make use of a rectangular one. Thank you very much, and please keep up the excellent work. Cheers, Nickolas

clickspring
>>16075034

Terrific to have your support Nickolas, details of the tray are on their way to you via email - Cheers :)

Kevin Reardon

London or Sandwich are the same to me. Good choice for Greenwich! It will help out the archaeologist in 2387 when they find it in a methane lake on Titan.

Anthony Gage

Greenwich in place of London and Byzantium as of its historical significance .

Ralph McCoy

Chris, did I miss something?? Do we know any of the original cities ?? Rotted away I suppose. But would not the original only have places in the word that they knew?? Just something to think about, yea like you don't have enough. Posted on the wrong date oops

Luke Pettit

No Aussie cities?

Extralife

Looks good! Would suggest switching to a different font for the day-of-week dial, as those curly serifs look a little odd in all-caps. The one you've chosen for the small month indicator looks nice, would try that first

Spirit of the Warrior

I have to cast a vote for Greenwich, as it is the standard by which everything is based around. Call me a stickler, but it makes logical sense. As for the other, I'm partial to Byzantium... Paying a little homage to the device itself. Cheers...

David Paterson

Chris, Back from OS and look..lots of new stuff to see. Thanks heaps.

Josué Blanco

Any idea what the original typography was like on the ancient device? Was it engraved or ink?

clickspring
>>16589236

Hello mate - It was engraved, using a typical for the era serif Greek alphabet with a mix of cities and regions from around the Mediterranean that were prominent at the time (eg Rome, Antioch, 'Africa' etc). Days of the week were engraved representations of the Roman planetary gods that were then associated with each weekday ie Saturn for Saturday, Mars for Tuesday, Mercury for Wednesday etc - Cheers :)

David Paterson
>>16432266

Any way of loading a couple of photos? No much because I haven't been keeping a good log, but our team build has completed the wheels, most of the arbors and the shell. We have now split it into sets for individual completion, about to depth one set. Fun so far, but have had to go back and review your logic on a couple of components when fitting the assemblies up. Is there any chance you could post a simple gear chart to validate the drawings. ie: 39-72-12, 62/12-10 (biggest question is the engagement of the pinions on the ratchet assembly, but dont want a silly error at this stage) If you were to re-publish the plans, I would suggest all of the plan-views of the case and mechanism have consistent orientation - ie lunar zodiac always on left) I reckon if you were to write this up it would be well received, and marketable. not sure how enduring this video stuff is ;-)

clickspring
>>16432266

Terrific to hear that mate, and I would love to see some pics of your build so do please post some when you can. Patreon is a bit limited for uploading photo's but you can upload a single pic as part of a Community post (<a href="https://www.patreon.com/clickspring/community),">https://www.patreon.com/clickspring/community),</a> or there's the option of uploading the pics to a third party site like <a href="http://photobucket.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://photobucket.com/</a> and then you can post as many links to pictures as you like within the body of the post. Re the train layout: Another build team asked for the same thing a while back, so there is now a drawing on page 3 of the plans for Part 3 showing the train layout more clearly, as well as the nominal center distances on page 1 of the drawings for Part 7. I'd also recommend the superglue/dry fit testing as per part 7 too. You can verify the entire train that way with minimal risk, and get a really good feel for how it should go together. The ratchet arbor pinions can be verified using the mill spindle as shown at the end of Part 7. We're on the home stretch for the project now, so I will tidy up the drawings and re-publish across each of the episodes at the end of the last episode. Ideally I will also publish a hard copy workshop construction manual as you suggest to act as a companion for the vids, although it will be a little while before I can find some free time to complete that - Cheers :)

David Paterson
>>16432266

Thanks Chris, I had to review a couple of episodes and then re-make two of the discs to get end shake required - too much precision in original following of plans (prob needs a supporting note in the drawings when you get around to re-publishing) This tech-writing stuff is hard.

Herb Kephart

You asked, when laying out some of the antikythera parts, for suggesting an early substitute for Dykem layout fluid. How about blood?

clickspring
>>18603618

Thanks Herb - as it happens blood turned out to be very effective! New vid on the subject in a few days - Cheers :)

Aaron

Chris, any chance you could go back to making a new post for each month instead of continuing to modify this October post? Even with all e-mail notifications turned on, I don't get notified when you edit an existing post - only when you post a new one. I have to very actively remember to both check this page and scroll to the bottom to see the between-video updates. Don't know if everyone else has experienced the same.

Aaron
>>18634326

Greatly appreciated - and the etch looks fantastic! Can't wait for the next installment.

Josh Schriver

Chris, your work is amazing. You've earned a new Patron. Keep up the cool projects. Cant wait for your next video.