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Vinland Saga Episode 16 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-15 17:00:07
Imported:
2024-08
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Chels

To TLDR how we view Fate, Luck and Godly intervention.. mind you I can only speak for Norse pagan passed on from the Sami people, since the Danes, Swedes, Iceland, and German tribes all might've had variations, (also keep in mind what I know is from my own families oral history and some modern resources so there's a lot of interpretation left over) Well basically, Luck, Fate, and the Gods are all separate and independent from one another and we believe that while everyone has a fate, it can be altered with a mix of luck and willpower. We don't believe the Gods intervene or even interact with our fates at all, but merely observe. Starting with luck.. well.. we all know what it is lol luck is just a random alignment that may or may not affect your path. It's random occurances that you're expected to navigate through, and with good luck, it will be occurances in your favor. People who say "I don't believe in luck" clearly don't understand it's origin because there's not anything magical about it. It's pretty mundane. Then we have Fate, which is handled by the Norns. They watch the fates grow and split and tangle, making sure to untangle and cut threads that have reached their end, but they don't weave it like the Greeks. We believe that fate changes because of luck and our decisions, so the Norns merely cut away paths that can no longer be walked. An example of how luck, choices, and fate play together is say I'm fated to die in an accident (this happened btw) there's going to be a massive 70 car pile up disaster on a high speed freeway at a certain time and me and my ex are on our way home from visiting a friend. My bf at the time, is driving recklessly and speeding because he's mad and we're about to get to that freeway, but luck has it that I forgot my bag at my friend's house. I could either choose to stay quiet because he's already mad, and pick it up the next day or have my friend drop it off, or I could make him turn around and probably risk an accident cuz he was stupid. I decided to have him turn around because I had to go back home to Idaho (we were in UT where he lived) early the next morning and I thought it would be more of a hassle for him to get it that early. So we turned back to get the bag. He was pissed but we didn't crash. Instead, we got redirected to take another path from the one that was just open before, and when we got to his place, we saw on the news that right about the time we turned around and would've or could've been on that section of the freeway, there was a massive pileup that killed several and injured many more. If anyone were to ask, I view this as a prime example of "I was going to die in that accident because of how he was driving in a sports car, and luck presented a choice that altered my fate" and it goes to show that even though I chose the option that seemed like the one that would lead to an accident, or the bad ending, it led to me getting home safe (so I'm sure there's some fancy words about how you think your making a mistake but it could be the right thing for you or something) Anyway, about the Gods.. Norse paganism is a religion based in reciprocity and animism. So we believe that you don't ask without giving and you don't give only to ask. You give and give out of appreciation for what you have, and when you ask, you do it sincerely (through a little ritual, the Gods aren't on standby with their phones and CCTV footage of us like the Christian one. In fact, we talk to spirits more than the Gods lol spirits of nature, ancestors, or the Alfar who are basically elves and the fae/tuatha de dannon) And when we ask something of the Gods, it's not for intervention or to "make" something happen. We "pray" to them for guidance, inspiration, the strength and will to do a task. How we view the Gods isn't like the Christians view theirs, but more like ancestor worship because the Gods have died and become powerful spirits. We learn from their lessons and use them as examples of how to be. Eg. Odin acts based on his love of culture, song, poetry, knowledge, and sometimes, he acts poorly out of misguidance, ignorance, and fear. So we learn from him to seek wisdom, expression of art, and the patience of waiting and watching before action, as well as we learn from his actions leading up to Ragnarok, that acting hastily from fear and judgement, and betraying your sworn brothers and sisters on the word of others and your own ignorance, only leads to ruin. (Lokean pov) Lokeans like myself who worship Loki and his children as patrons, we learn from his example to act with radical acceptance. "No matter how bleak and dark the current situation, what matters is how you respond to it. If you can accept what is happening and react with wit and levity, you can find yourself out of most situations" is the general idea. People think he's a trickster God because of his pranks, but he's actually a God of liminality. He is everything in-between. Even his gender is not even male, but non-binary lol so he represents that there is no black and white, because even the dark situations can bring about good things. Good people can bring about the worst destruction. You can't appreciate the light without dark, and you can't have shadows without light. So essentially, we try to follow his example by not viewing the world in binary terms and respond to every situation with some about of levity and wit, to not try and fight the current of life, but swim with it, or better yet, get a damn boat (is what i imagine he'd say) 😂 we also learn from his children as extensions of his actions as well as individually but that will go on too long. So to sum it up, there is no "The Gods left you" or whatever like you said, but rather "The Gods are always there for guidance, and no matter how dark or bleak your situation is, if your fate and luck run bad, there is always opportunity to get through it and fight or wit your way out of it" but of course, this is "perfect practice" not every person will see things the same or respond the way they should. Loki got vilified despite all the good he did when Odin was the one who betrayed him first, because people forget to see the Gods as lessons. The Gods are all equals and make equal mistakes like we do. And not all of us always has the strength to follow the lessons despite knowing them. So ya, it be like that sometimes lol but that's essentially the way we and the Vikings would have viewed the way the universe interacts with Luck, Fate, and the Gods with their own choices and actions. That's why you see a lot of mentions of Askeladd's luck and how he isn't making the right choices. His men followed and trusted him because he was smart and luck was always on his side, but turned on him when they started questioning his choices and lost faith in their leader. And when that one was saying "He is a good leader, that's why he should take responsibility for his decisions" whereas I think the Christian version would be "God has forsaken him because he angered him" and if the Norse only valued strength of the physical nature, they would've probably said he grew weak, or something of that nature. I think the author did a lot of research to be able to have the characters say "Ya Askeladd is a good, strong leader, but he made poor choices and luck isn't on his side. He's out of ideas, so we need to turn on him or we'll die too" 🤔

Chels

This 2nd time around watching, I really appreciate Askeladd as a character honestly. I hated him the first time around, but he is such a deep, complex character! Like, it's funny to me that he hates the Scandinavians when he is what would be considered the example of what a Jarl or captain SHOULD be to the Scandinavians. He's smart, crafty, pragmatic, realistic, understands people, and can make the hard choices quickly despite his own wishes. You even see that he can have compassion, even though to us at first glance might look barbaric. Like killing the villagers, you could see him calculating it and hesitating a tiny bit. He first starts with the thought of "we could leave them with a little food and take only what we need" but when he learned that even all of their food wasn't enough for most of his men who need him and depend on him to keep them alive, and he needs them to get the prince to safety and help the Welsh, he chose the best option for them. Quick, painless death. If he left them alive, even with a tiny bit of food, they would've suffered long and painfully for months and die anyway. It was only the start of winter, and in this time period, you could easily find cases of people turning to eating the weak during long winters. Imagine that family with all the kids. They would become weak, ill, emaciated, freezing and starved until one by one, they would start dying, and those that lived would start eating their lost loved ones. It would've been worse than what Askeladd gave them, and while you could argue he shouldn't have gone there and taken their food, but then you gotta think bigger. Askeladd is escorting the prince of Scandinavia, the only hope for many people's futures, because the other prince is too much like his father, a man willing to destroy his own people and forsake all Pagans (he converted to Christianity after uniting the tribes and countries of Scandinavia in the pact with England for allowing them to settle in England, which the English betrayed.) Askeladd has to keep this kid safe and get him to make a peace treaty with the Welsh, who were being terrorized by the Christians for the same reason the Norsemen who settled on English land were.. they were pagan at the height of the Christian campaign to eradicate all paganism that began in Alexandria and Babylon. (Why Askeladd hates the Christians and priests btw) So to him, the lives that matter are at stake and it was him or them, so he HAD to take their food. But I like that you can see the mantle of leadership wearing on him too. He wants to pass the mantle to someone else that he can respect. Someone with honor and strength of character, who wouldn't betray based on religion or origin or status, but to find a leader like that in this time period would be so rare. It's the end of the Viking age, most of the Vikingr have either become a united military for the king, or the stragglers that either settled or become nothing more than bandits with no honor, only a thirst for a reason to exist which they could only find in battle. Paganism was on its way out too. The king was forcing Christianity into every village. At first it was peaceful, the same as Rome or Greece, by relating paganism to Christianity like "hey, you like Yule? Well guess what, you can still celebrate it, because it also HAPPENS to be a Christian celebration of our lord too~" or "Look what our God does that yours don't" kind of method. But eventually all pagan artifacts, culture and history would be destroyed and all Pagans killed, such as the Sami people were hunted, and ostracized. (Fun fact: Sweden secretly hid as much pagan history away as they could, which is how we still have what we do today) so it's not like Askeladd would find many others that would be tolerant of his Pagan brethren and honor a peace treaty with them. Anyway, I think Askeladd would be doing things so differently if he could. I don't think he enjoys having to be the leader of Scandinavian bandits, being ruthless and brutal. I think that's why he keeps Thorfinn around too. He sees himself and he sees remnants of Thors is Thorfinn, and I believe he wants Thorfinn to kill him one day, so that he can die as the villain he pretended to be and be an example of "this is what should happen to men like me" you know? He feels very much like a man who is playing the villain to raise the good people up, and inside, he's a tired old man who's hoping desperately to find that one leader to protect the ones he cares about. I think deep down, he's trying to save his mother.

Iriza
>>146662947

Damn. I hate to say this after you spent all this time writing all this... But that's exactly why I have to say it: If they cared enough to take 20 minutes out of their day to read all this, then they would've just looked it up themselves. Like, I get you're trying to explain things, but you're wasting your time if you think anyone who would actually be interested enough to read all this wouldn't just have looked it up themselves from a more reliable source than "word of mouth", lol. So I'm saying this for your sake, because for everyone else, well, we can just choose to not read it in the first place, but you can never take back the time you spent writing this for no one to actually read.