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Greetings! Trying to make the combat system more interesting has been on my to-do list for a while. As covered in the last post, the game will be moving to incremental releases, and the first one will introduce the arena and probably involve tweaking combat. Letting you fight in the arena seemed a good opportunity to make any combat changes, since it gives you the means to test 'em out.

Before going too far down this path, though, I wanted to get your input on what you think about combat in the game right now. Do you generally like it? Dislike it? Mostly indifferent? What would you change? What would you keep the same?

I have a few ideas for how to improve combat - for instance, making Emily's rotation more like a WoW rogue's - but I'm not sure this is a good idea. Making the game's combat depart more from standard RPGM mechanics could make it more interesting, but these changes would also make it more complex, and could be confusing to some players. In addition, since combat is a relatively small part of this game, I'm not sure how much effort should be devoted to improving it.

I had the idea of introducing the "threat" mechanic, but eventually concluded threat isn't very interesting in a single-player game. I wanted to make Ana's combat more "tanky," but I think it already kind of is. And the only important fights in this game are boss fights, but they usually revolve around figuring something out (i.e., they're a puzzle of sorts) or in doing some minigame. The actual combat is kind of secondary.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is this: do you think combat is in a good place right now, or does it need to be improved? If the latter, how would you improve it? What are your thoughts? Please let me know, and thank you for your support!

Comments

Anonymous

From my point of view, the combat is only a small part of the game, so I would not expect you to use much time on it.

Anonymous

what i think is put a dodging thing so when someone atta cks you could dodge them

Anonymous

attack*

MuteButtonHero

What you have now is functional but minimalist. That actually works since it's such a minor part of the game. This is no FPS (first person stabber). Where is this coming from anyway? Have others been pushing you to change the combat system? If so, what have their suggestions been?

Polar_Bear

Yeah. We've kinda been talking a little bit about this on Discord, kinda tangentially, but the actual combat system, as-is, is fine. Just being turn-based and whatnot is fine. It's sort of what I come to RPG Maker for, anyway. If anything, maybe giving Main Character something to do with their green energy stuff would be cool. Everyone else has stuff they can do with it, but MC doesn't. So, just some way to utilize that. But that's just a minor thing overall.

Nerina

Maybe I just can't find it, but is there a button to speed up combat? I've played other RPG maker games where you could hold shift and combat goes faster (I'm impatient lol)

proxxie

It’s been on my list for a while. Pretty sure it’s before you joined, but there were some very long posts outlining what I wanted to change about the game, and combat was one of the big things. As far as why, the basic combat cycle isn’t terribly interesting, so I was looking for ways to spice it up. After a while, though, it occurred to me that boss fights are the only real fights in this game, and they already have a source of interest- the boss’ mechanics. I just wanted to go ahead and do whatever I was going to do with combat revisions since the arena is a good testbed for it.

proxxie

An interesting idea! I’m not aware of any such key, but it probably would be a good addition. I’ll look into it!

proxxie

This isn’t related to/motivated by our discord discussions. It’s been on the drawing board for a long time, but I’ve backed away from many of the changes I’d contemplated for various reasons. Having resource bars people don’t use is indeed confusing and bad. One of the changes I’d already made to 10.1 is that each character only gets one resource bar.

D

Single player is ok, but takes a while. With a party it is dreadfully long. Something to speed it up would help. Nerina's suggestion is worth considering.

MuteButtonHero

I just did the "Ajax" battle last night and I thought it would be really useful to have tooltips attached to the various icons. There are icons above players, monsters, and in the info/stats character list. It would not change the balance of combat, just make it easier to keep track of things like rounds of corruption left, what that water drop icon means, what negative and positive effects you have applied, etc. I also just went back and did the Rock King combat and there's something odd about the display, like it's too big for the window, even in full screen. So you don't see things toward the edge of the screen like corruption icons and some other status info. I was using an old save to replay that battle so I guess it could be from that but why would that change the combat display? Anyway, now you know. Let me know if you need screen shots

Marius

I'll be brutally honest. The combat in this game is not particularly good. It's not one of the selling points. It gets the job done, though, and more importantly it doesn't get in the way of the storytelling and humor, which is what I love about it. There are multiple challenges and time sinks ahead of you should you pursue such an objective. 1. The RPG maker engine is not great at combat in the first place. There are a few games that do a reasonable job of it. Some examples include: - Six's game "Between" gives you a lot of options for how to build each character. It ties attacks and abilities to each equipment slot, which makes how to equip each character a much more meaningful endeavor. - Magical Camp makes resource management somewhat more interesting, as everyone uses mana exclusively and each character has a unique way of regenerating it. - Icarue tests out various gimmicks in his games. Most are not great, but the variety is good. I don’t see how you can emulate any of these games to improve your combat. Sure, there’s quality of life issues, but apart from that? I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that I don’t see it. 2. I don’t think World of Warcraft is a great model to copy. Frankly, the combat there is not great, either. There is a good learning curve and decent variety between the classes/specs, but as far as I’m concerned, what makes the combat entertaining is the challenge in the fights themselves. This crucially includes one aspect you can't copy, though; movement. I still wouldn’t recommend anyone playing WoW for the single player combat experience. Having said that, since there are so many specs in WoW (3x12=36), it’s likely that at least some of the specs can give inspiration for something. I haven’t played WoW seriously since the beginning of Cataclysm, so I’m woefully out of date on it. 3. The time investment you need in order to make the combat significantly better is probably extremely high. It will almost inevitably slow down releases. There is one good argument for doing something like this, though. If you’re bored of making other parts of the game or need more variety to stay sane, you should spend some time doing it. But it’s a deep rabbit hole you can get stuck in. Whatever you do, beware of the time investment trap. That is, the thought that “I’ve spent so much time on this now that I can’t afford to back out again, even though it would take a lot more time to finish it”.

proxxie

Thanks for the comment - particularly the WoW part. Reading it sort of crystallized for me that I don't really care about making interesting *combat*, I care about making interesting *encounters*. Maybe I haven't succeeded in either, but the latter is what I'm going for. The movement in WoW's boss fights *is* something I tried to emulate, actually. That's what I was trying to do with the Stone King fight, and what I'll likely do with the boss in 10.0 -> 11.0's dungeon. No need to worry about the "getting bored" part. I'd find developing skill trees and the like much more boring than writing skits or developing boss fights!

Anonymous

Hi Proxxie, Thanks for the new update. I paid so that I could get all the new stuff I hadn’t played before. I decided to start from the beginning as I couldn’t remember everything that was going on since I played last. This led me to think about the combat part of the game and, although I enjoy it as is, I do think it could use some improvement. Here are my thoughts: When the main PC and Ana are off to find Oswin they have to detour around the direct path and go through the dark cave (or something like that). Here you really get the first experience in combat. I was surprised both times I’ve played it that the PC has no way to use TP. PC builds TP, but cannot use it. I thought that it would have been nice if there were some way to use it, even if it was something silly. Later when the “Flash Heal” was learned I expected that it would use TP, but no, still no way for the main PC to use TP. So that’s one thing you might want to consider. When Ana gets the ability to taunt, I thought it would be funny to see her actually have some dialog of how she would taunt. Something from other games that I thought made combat more interesting than just choosing from a menu was timed button presses for a bonus to the action. Some games I can think of that use this are Final Fantasy 8, and Mario RPG, and I’m sure there are others. You’re probably familiar with the mechanic, but just in case it would be something like pressing a button at the right time during an attack for extra damage, or during a cure spell for extra restored HP. I don’t know if RPG maker lets you do that or not, but again something you may think about. You could do “team ups”, a special double action that two characters do together that is only available with certain conditions, i.e. when two characters have full TP. I don’t know what kind of programming time those ideas would take, hopefully you’ll find something you like that won’t be overly burdensome. I have a few other comments from restarting the game, like a couple of minor issues/bugs, and other thoughts, where should I post those? Thanks for the game, and for your wit! I will continue to play it no matter what the combat is like. I’m in it for the great dialog, silly situations, and of course the wonderful story!

proxxie

Glad you're enjoying it! Having resource bars characters can't use is indeed a flaw (you mentioned Alex having TP, but Ana and Emily also have MP...) I think it makes the most sense for each character to have only 1 resource type, so in 10.1 I'm removing the resources characters can't use. I think Ren and maybe Jovi use both; if so I'll have to change them so they only get 1 of the 2. Probably the preferred place to post bugs is on the Discord (in #bug-reports) but you can post them here if you like. I'll think about the rest of your suggestions - and thanks for the kind words!

Skeeve

I think it is your game and i am glad if you ask players for suggestions. I know it is not a way all players can be satisfied. You make the decision and i can say for myself, i am not in any way disappoint if you more combat system or not, i like your game and i have so much fun to play it, read the funny dialogues and the artwork , all girls look so hot and sexy ;-) Thank you for your game