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What A Cartoon Movie! - Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker (Patreon)

Published:
2021-10-25 04:00:03
Imported:
2023-01

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Our big run of Batman podcasts starts with a bang, as Joker is back to give this podcast a wedgie again! Yes, it's 2000's direct-to-DVD film, Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, and we cover its creation, its complicated multiple releases across two years, and so much more. How much got changed? What TMS greats animated it? And what does John McCain have to do with it? Learn all about it now in this podcast!

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Comments

Anonymous

The way most people seem to regard Mask of the Phantasm is exactly the way I feel about this one. An incredible film, with all the action, chills, & suspense anyone could ask for in a Batman cinematic adventure.

Anonymous

In their next film “Mystery of the Batwoman” Tim bring up the idea of getting a dog. Decades later Bruce does get a dog, and that dog helps Terry beat the Joker. I like the idea that Bruce remembered a suggestion Tim made and that dog would later help Terry defeat the Joker. This obviously wasn’t planned when they were writing this movie, but I think it’s neat.

Frank Grimes

blew my mind the first time i watched the VHS in high school. Mind was blown even more when I found out I saw the censored version, then finally seeing the uncut one.

SomeBloke

The whole flashback sequence might be my all-time favorite Joker moment in any medium. So many creators struggle with the character (Insert every twisted meme here), but there it is laid out: he thinks Batman being Bruce Wayne is hilarious and pathetic, and tries to brainwash Robin into killing him because that's by far and away the most amusingly awful death for Batman that he can imagine. Just the right balance of darkness while still understanding there's an essential "comedic" streak to his actions.

Frank Grimes
>>70455604

Best part was joker called bats a sad little boy. That had to hurt bats

Tashmon Dimps

Woo! Nice episode as always, boys. This is my first experience with this movie, and I’m glad I decided to finally give it a shot. Mask of the Phantasm is better, but I think this film mirrors a lot of the strengths of that film and stands out with supremely gorgeous animation! Also, screw you Bob for making me curious about the Blade 2 review. I want my appetite back XD

Devin Hoffarth

The reason Bruce labeled it Anti-Joker Venom is because of a bad habit he picked up in the 60's. It took all of Bruce's willpower to not put 'Bat' at the front of that label you know. One time Terry walked in and saw 'Bat Shark Repellent' in that cabinet and was about to make a sarcastic quip. But the menacing aura from Bruce stopped him from saying anything and bringing up stranger times of Surf Competitions and Baseball Pitcher stands with giant springs underneath them.

Devin Hoffarth

It's funny how Bob and Henry are talking about how Joker is trying to kill Terry's girlfriend to make him more brooding and dark when that's exactly what happened to Spiderman in the 70's. Won't bore you too much but The Green Goblin basically orchestrated and killed Peter's girlfriend Gwen Stacy (sort of) and this started a much darker and grittier era of Spiderman who was more dark and brooding. Fans didn't like this but don't worry Marvel corrected all this in a totally simple and coherent way that wasn't stupidly drawn out and convoluted. I only bring this up because it makes me wonder if Dini was basically writing Joker as the Green Goblin for this movie. In fact: Norman Osborne brainwashing and putting himself into the body of a friend of Peter's through super science actually does sound like something he would do as well. Just something to think about!

Devin Hoffarth
>>70518976

In addition: I have to disagree with Henry's brother on this one. I know he probably just reacted to seeing the turn in the fight coming from a mile away, but I think it's important for Terry to beat the Joker in a way most suited to him. If Terry just outsmarted or outfought the Joker you could make the argument he's just doing what Bruce would have done. But by mocking the Joker and trolling him in response, he's able to get under his skin in a way that Bruce Wayne never would. Terry beating the Joker by being his more Spidermaney type of hero validates his existence and affirms what Bruce says at the end of the movie. You could make an argument that Terry can have other skills or knowledge related to his unique past but since Bruce Wayne knows every martial art and science it'd be hard to justify Terry having some talent Bruce doesn't. It's his personality and disposition which makes him different from Bruce and that's what should help him triumph in the end. Is it a bit cliche and obvious? Sure but that's not always a bad thing. And I would rather the story do the obvious but thematically appropriate thing rather than try to 'subvert my expectations' or surprise me in a way that's pointless or doesn't serve the plot.

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

This is a small thing, but as a male who is bi and hates bi erasure, I just want to point out that Tim Drake and Jonathan Kent Superman have both been explicitly labeled bi by the authors who are having them date men as well now. Otherwise, great podcast of a great film.

Anonymous

I think the reveal at the end would have been better if that the trauma of being abused by the Joker and then killing him drove Drake to permanently have a second Joker personality. Like Bob said it's a film about trauma. I think that point would have landed better if that's the way they went. But I definitely understand why they went with that ending. It's still a kids show, and you'd have to excuse his body count and other crimes if it's just him. But man, if they went with that ending I think this would have been even better. I definitely enjoyed it though. Y'all really had a lot of research on this one. Kudos.

To Boldy Joe... Moore

Thanks for this, guys! Not finished listening yet, but looking forward to that "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog" episode of What A Cartoon, someday! ^_^

To Boldy Joe... Moore
>>70568365

By the way, the Batman Beyond series Blu-Ray set I have in the UK features a DVD of the censored movie (with alternate "Batman of the Future" title), for some reason. Not sure if this is the case for other regions.

To Boldy Joe... Moore
>>70568365

You mentioned the characters saying "god" as an exclamation as something only the movie could do, but I'm sure I heard it quite a few times during the series. The series didn't seem to shy away from glass breaking or seeing punches land either. In general, I was surprised by how much they got away with. The film is definitely a few steps beyond (no pun intended).

Joshua Marchant
>>70445191

Agreed! I've tried to rewatch 'Mask' several times but I always come away underwhelmed by the TV animation and a mystery that feels stretched to fill a feature runtime.

Joshua Marchant

I have to imagine the use of 'Hare Ribbin' in the movie was an intentional meta-joke about the production staff being frustrated at being asked to produce new animation to replace the iconic Robin-kills-the-Joker scene. Much like 'Return of the Joker' the Termite Terrace animators had to replace the already completed 'Bugs shoots the dog' ending with new animation, which was almost never done in the golden age because of the time and cost intensive nature of ink-and-paint cel animation. The story I've heard (and choose to believe because it's funny) is that the studio censors didn't want Bugs to shoot a dog because it was 'too mean' for their star character who was heavily merchandised to kids, so Clampett and his team proposed the dog kill himself instead and this version was approved for all-ages! Great podcast as always and thank you for covering my favourite Batman movie, period. The inclusion of one of the most violent and bizarre Looney Tunes ever, clinches it for me!

Anonymous

When talking about Jokers brave new world speech. Henry said it was a reference to the Aldous Huxley novel. However its a line from Shakespeare's "The Tempest" Act 5 scene 1, Miranda: O wonder! How many goodly creatures are there here! How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world That has such people in't!