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***FULL REACTION*** GLORY (Patreon)

Published:
2023-11-03 19:39:31
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Movie Run Time: 2:02:14

You will need your own copy of the movie to watch along! 😁

Such a sad and crazy story! I really didn't know anything about the civil war 😢

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Bartleby

The south was still practicing slavery while the north had already stopped the practice. The grade school answer will tell you that The Civil War was fought over slavery. The realities are more complex and nuanced than that though and are still debated by historians to this day. There were black soldiers fighting for both sides of the war. North and south. But that’s getting into the complex nuances that people don’t like discussing.

Mike Phillippie

That was a great movie! One I had never seen before. An extremely amazing cast and Mathew Broderick was Phenomenal. Very entertaining as always, Dawn!

Ed Bartlett

The scene at the end, where Shaw is buried in a common grave with his men, was meant to be an insult by the Confederates. However, his family saw it quite differently: “We would not have his body removed from where it lies surrounded by his brave and devoted soldiers....We can imagine no holier place than that in which he lies, among his brave and devoted followers, nor wish for him better company – what a body-guard he has!”

vespid52

You ask a lot of great questions about the cause, support, and impact of the war. You asked us to help you understand, but I suggest you do your own research and learn what you can from good authoritative sources. Some of those questions can still draw heated debate in the US, and I'd suggest this isn't the place for such an argument. Thanks for watching this movie.

Jay F

Slavery used to be legal and practiced everywhere in America in the late 1700s. At the turn of the century the north abolished it, partly because they industrialized, but the South was more agriculture and still relied on the practice economically and thus it was more of a "states rights" issue. But when Lincoln, a hardcore abolishionist, was elected President, those southern states feared it would be outlawed nationally. Those southern states rose an army and rebelled (The cliff notes version of the Slavery + Civil War issue). Interestingly enough, the United Kingdom was contemplating an alliance with the Southern Confederacy, but once the war became about freeing slaves (and the North was winning) they chose not to. That being said though even in the North, blacks weren't totally accepted and still faced hard prejudice. And many people feared the idea of arming black people. Even after the civil war, they had to fight in racially segregated units up until Vietnam when whites and blacks could actually serve in the same unit. That scene between Robert and Denzel's character towards the end was reflective of the fact that even after the war, blacks weren't treated equal until almost a century later, after the 1960s-70s, and even then it's debatable.

Jay F

Incredible reaction. Amazing as always :)

Hunter DeRensis
>>121373214

You should read the articles of secession from the upper south, including Virginia's, which initially rejected secession (unlike the Deep South) until after Lincoln called forth the militia, which caused them to reverse their decision. The crisis of 1860-1861 developed over the course of many months and there were different, immediate causes for different states to leave the union which included both the preservation of slavery and federal usurpation of unconstitutional power. Not to mention the fact that the reasons for southern secession were very different from the reasons the North decided to invade, which in 1861 had nothing to do with slavery. The "nuance" you disdain is not a post hoc invention but a reality of history and human life.

Bartleby
>>121373214

“I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save thise Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.” ~ Abraham Lincoln August 22 1862

Hunter DeRensis

Hi Dawn! This is a very powerful movie, and I'm glad you decided to watch it (even if it left you heartbroken). I kept track of your questions as I watched along, and I'll try to answer most of them in a straightforward and simple way. Don't be so hard on yourself for not knowing much about the war; you're Scottish, there shouldn't be an expectation that you'd learn much about U.S. history. When people refer to the north and south, they're referring to states north and south of the Mason-Dixon Line, which is the border between Maryland and Pennsylvania. That's considered the buffer between the regions, and during the Civil War eleven states south of the Mason-Dixon seceded from the United States and formed an independent government, the Confederate States of America. The approximate causes of the war go back fifteen years, after the United States won a tremendous amount of land in a war with Mexico (think Texas, California, the whole southwest). Afterwards, there was a contentious debate about whether slavery would be legal in this new western territory. At this time, the practice of slavery was a question decided at the state level, not by the national government. Starting with Massachusetts in the 1780s, many states in the north began abolishing slavery. On the other hand, southern states grew more dependent on slave labor to produce cotton and other agricultural goods. It's very important to remember that during this time, very few people (like Robert Gould Shaw in the movie) saw slavery through a moral lens of good or bad. Most contemporary people thought of it in terms of political economy, a decision to be made on whether or not the use of slave labor was productive or beneficial. So what to do with all this new territory? The south wanted to have the ability to travel with their slaves out to the west. Whereas the north wanted to keep slavery out of the territories because it would be competition to free, white labor. This argument was, for the most part, a proxy about regional power and influence. Who had more weight, the north or the south? No one realistically conceived that there would be plantations set up in a desert like Arizona; it was about the principle. During the 1850s there were a series of compromises, new laws, and some violence that failed to bring a solution, and instead exacerbated hatred between the regions. Finally, in 1860, Abraham Lincoln was elected as the first Republican President. The Republicans were a regional party that were very popular in the north, but hated in the south. In fact, Lincoln's name didn't even appear on most southern ballots during the 1860 election. So when Lincoln won, many in the south decided that they would rather form their own independent government rather than be a political minority in the United States. Contrary to someone else's comment, Lincoln was not a "hardcore abolitionist." Lincoln personally opposed slavery (on both moral and economic terms) and firmly opposed its extension into the western territories, but he campaigned in 1860 against any intervention against slavery where it already existed in the south. That public pledge, however, didn't convince most southerners, who saw him as hostile to their practice of slavery and economic interests. In December 1860, South Carolina became the first state to secede. How this works is a state convention would be called, and local towns would send representatives to debate and vote. These representatives voted to leave the union and declare independence (similiar to how the colonies voted to secede from the United Kingdom in the 1770s). Sometimes the decision was a referendum, and regular citizens would vote to secede. The war officially began with the firing on Fort Sumter. This was a fort outside of Charleston, South Carolina. When they seceded, they demanded that the federal fort be handed over to them. Lincoln refused, and instead sent the Navy to reinforce the fort. The south began attacking it, and even though no one died in the battle, this was seen as a justification to call forth the military to crush the "southern rebellion." (Lincoln and the north did not view southern secession as legal or legitimate.) After that, several other states seceded, and the war began in earnest. The American Civl War lasted from April 1861 until May 1865. You had a lot of questions about slavery and free blacks, so I'll try to clarify some of that. If a black person was enslaved, there were ways for them to become free. First, they could run away to either a free state in the north or to Canada (the British Empire had already abolished slavery in 1833). If they suceeded in getting away, it could be difficult for slavemasters in the south to retrieve them. Second, they could be given their freedom. A slavemaster, could for instance, manumit (ie set free) his slaves in his will for after his death. Although some southern states actually made it illegal for a master to free his slaves, which they saw as a threat to the stability of the slave system. Third, and I think most interestingly, slaves could buy their own freedom. Roughly a quarter of the slaves in the United States were not fieldhands, but were skilled laborers like carpenters, smiths, even architects. Despite being slaves, they were sometimes paid for their work, and if they raised enough, could buy their way to freedom. Afterwards, they could buy their spouse of their children their freedom. This may be surprising, but more free blacks lived in the south than lived in the north--mostly because very few blacks lived in the north at all. In fact, some northern states made it outright illegal for black people to live there. And both north and south there were laws restricting what jobs black people could have or what they could do. Before the war, there were a couple of places in the north where black men were allowed to vote. But simultaneously, there were a handful of blacks still enslaved in places like New York in the 1850s because of how their manumission law was set up (slaves born after X date were free but those born before were kept in bondage). And there were cases in the south, paricularly South Carolina and Louisiana, of free blacks owning slaves and using them for labor. It's all very layered and just as interesting! There are instances of slave revolts and blacks fighting back against their enslavement throughout U.S. history. The most famous is Nat Turner's rebellion in 1831. What would usually happen is slaves would organize in secret, gather weapons, and then begin killing as many white people as possible (including women, children, etc). The revolts would be brutally supressed, and many slaves not involved would be killed as a consequence. Because slave revolts were always so bloody and always unsuccessful, they were uncommon (but still a perpetual fear among white southerners). That answers your question about why whites, even northerners, were so nervous to train and arm blacks and turn them into soldiers. They feared that this would come back to bite them. The U.S. military would remain racially segregated, with blacks and whites trained and fighting in separate units, up until 1948. And even afterwards there would be several incidents of racial violence well into the 1970s. "Surely, everyone realizes by now they're all the same, they're all human." Unfortunately, it would take another century after the Civil War before most blacks in the United States achieved full legal equality. No other countries became directly involved in the American Civil War, although the Confederates lobbied hard for their government to be internationally recognized by the British and French. Some Europeans were sympathetic to the cause (primarily for selfish reasons, like having strong trade connections to southern agricultural exports) but as the war lasted longer, and the south began to lose, any chance at European involvement diminished significantly. "It's so hard to figure out because the white men that were fighting were obviously fighting for the black men." Actually, on the whole, that's not true. Most Union soldiers who fought for the north did so because they believed southern secession was illegal and that their departure would destroy the country. Unlike Robert Shaw, they didn't feel a grand moral benevolence about slavery or black people in general. As the war progressed, slavery came more and more to the forefront. At the beginning of the movie there was a background conversation referring to the southern slaves as "contraband." That was the legal loophole that allowed the U.S. government to seize and essentially "free" southern slaves who escaped. It was justified as an integral part of the war effort to sap the south of its labor supply. Eventually, Lincoln gained the leverage he needed to made the abolition of slavery an end goal of the war--but even then, it was moderated. The Emancipation Proclamation, which is also mentioned in the movie, freed the slaves only in Confederate possession. When this happened, slave states like Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, and Missouri were fighting alongside the north against the south. Lincoln did not try to free those slaves, and in fact only declared free the slaves that he had not control over. Slavery in the whole of the United States was not abolished until December 1865 with the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment. By that time, most northerners began to see slavery as a moral wrong, and supported its end. But that was after four years of war, and their feelings in 1865 had no bearing on why most of the soldiers initially signed up to fight when the south seceded. "It feels like it was all for nothing." War often feels like that, no matter what time period. The 54th Massachusetts lost the Battle of Fort Wagner, and did not personally affect the outcome of the war. But they proved their capability, they proved their bravery, and their sacrifice became an inspiration. The story the movie is trying to tell isn't about winning, it's about "glory." I hope all this background information helps, and wasn't too complicated to follow! If you're interested in learning more about the American Civil War, the best movie on it, in my humble opinion, is Gods and Generals (2003), particularly the director's cut. It's the best historical epic of the modern era and does an exceptional job giving you a full, broad picture of the war. It's told primarily from the vantage point of Confederate General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson (south) and Union Lieutenant Colonel Joshua Chamberlain (north). You get to see the declarations of secession in the winter of 1860, and follow battles like Bull Run, Antietam (which you saw briefly at the beginning of Glory), Fredericksburg, and Chancellorsville. The accuracy is sublime. The movie is LONG, no doubt about it. The director's cut is almost five hours. But it's the best around, and that length is comparible to the Lord of the Rings, right? People binge those! Anyway, I highly recommend Gods and Generals, even if you have to watch it in two parts lol. Lastly, I really encourage you to follow your instinct and learn more African American history, like you mentioned during the reaction. It's so rich and full of incredible stories and yes, movies. The one I recommend most is A Raisin in the Sun (1961) starring Sidney Poitier. It's one of the greatest films of black cinema, and personally in my top ten favorite movies. It's black and white, takes place almost entirely in one apartment, and is overflowing with universally understood human emotion. You will LOVE A Raising in the Sun. There's multiple remakes, so be sure it's the 1961 original. Thanks for making such great content!