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Re:ZERO 2x12: "The Witches' Tea Party" // Reaction and Discussion (Patreon)

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2023-12-20 19:17:39
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Re:ZERO 2x12: "The Witches' Tea Party" // Reaction and Discussion

00:00 Intro 01:15 Reaction to Show 18:27 Discussion

Comments

Ttsukasa

OMG I get the be the first comment to inform you about Echinda's Contract. Basically Subaru can "Redo" by dying. The witch of greed is STUPID CRAZY Curious. She wanted to use Subaru as the ultimate "choose your own adventure" card to try every scenario possible she could think of in order to satisfy her curiousity. Ever thought about "What would have happened if I sped past the yellow light instead of waiting at the red. " or "What would have happened if I moved instead of choosing to stay somewhere" or "What if I showered before brushing my teeth instead of vise versa?" Well Subaru is the ultimate card to use to test literally EVERY POSSIBLE OUTCOME YOU CAN THINK OF. All at the small price of him having to die between test. This is what Echidna was attempting to get out of the contract with Subaru, and after having tested literally everything should could possibly imagine, after having had Subaru die a bazillion times, eventually she'd have him go through the correct path to "save the day". But what type of Subaru is a Subaru who has died a bazillion times when it all said and done. There is a "If" short story that follows the story path of Subaru agreeing to contract with Echidna, since you like her so much I highly suggest you check it out! Here is a visual summary of said short story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epfnTB8xl3M

Mitschiro

The unthinkable present. This is cut dialogue but Echidna told Subaru, that the second trial was a bad fit given his authority. Subaru has no "one unthinkable present", because of his authority he has one for each life he has lived. So, the second trial made him relive all of his deaths in short intervals which brought his mind close to going bongers again.

Ttsukasa

Ps: Echidna, the witch of greed, literally told everyone upon first meeting her that she is a VERY VERY bad/evil witch. I think you guys, like Subaru have been falling for her "innocent" /"charm" play and are way too trustworthy of her. She lies, she is only concerned with herself honestly (and her thirst for knowledge) , and you saw a bit of her truth self in that monologue, she, like ALL the witches, is a witch. A being beyond comprehension who also lacks comprehension. She literally put her contracted spirit through 400 years of torture to satisfy her curiosity (without ever even explaining to Betty that she was suppose to choose her own person). Imagine someone tells you "Wait here until the black car arrives for you" at a street corner. But what they want to see is WHICH black car you'll make stop and get in. And she thought this was "WONDERFUL" , including Betty's current determination to kill herself. She is in essence a scientist without compassion. Very similar to Bondrewd from Made in Abyss.

Ttsukasa

The second trial is basically "Behold an unthinkable present". It is about "can you coup with seeing a present different from yours based on if you made another choice during a very important decision" For example, for Rem it could be if Ram never lost her horn. For Ram it would probably be if Rem also died during the village attack, a view of her "present" life based on that change.

mohal

Such a great discussion! Very relevant to next episode.

TrinitytheApostle

“This attribute you have, RETURN BY DEATH, is an incredible authority. In the truest of meanings you cannot comprehend its utility. Not permitting the ends contrary to your desires, conducting countless redos, reaching for the future countless times—for a researcher, this is near the ultimate ideal. I mean, wouldn't it be? The result of any event will fundamentally, once a single result has been reached, remain put. If you are still midway through the process of reaching a result, you can make varied hypotheses as to what the result will be. If using this approach, or otherwise if using these conditions, varied hypotheses and varied investigations are possible. But, if you are to experiment with the purpose of producing a result, then the results, testable hypotheses, and investigations will inevitably subsume into a single aggregate. Recreating completely, and I mean completely identical conditions is impossible. No matter what conditions you arrange, you cannot recreate the exact same conditions as you previously did. If you tried different methods back then, what result would you now procure? That question is one us researchers will never attain the answer for, nothing more than a dream existing in the forward path of what is ideal. For me and my MEMORIES OF THE WORLD, I indeed have means to KNOW the answer, I certainly do. Do, but I don't consider using that method, utilizing that method, as anything good. It's that I want TO KNOW, not TO HAVE KNOWN. The thing creates this terrible contradiction, for me you could call it abominable. But I'm getting off topic here so returning back to the point... right, we researches have to accept results as being entirely singular, and for us who possess only one means of observation, your existence, your authority, is something we desperately crave. You can run DIFFERING INVESTIGATIONS under IDENTICAL CONDITIONS, you can see SEPARATE RESULTS differing from the FUNDAMENTAL RESULT. That is the ultimate authority—how could you not want it? With this power right in front of you, how could you not test everything? Though of course, I have no intention to force you to do that. It is entirely that, for you achieving your own purposes, you will utilise RETURN BY DEATH a lot. And I will also devote my best so that we reach the future you desire. During that process, I would like to get your extensive contribution to sating my curiosity. When that is all I'm asking I'm sure there's no punishment to be invoked. You will get to witness answers. I will get to sate my curiosity. Our mutual interests coincide. Since I don't know the answers either, there of course could be no instance where I purposefully lead you down an incorrect path, and you consequently meet a gruesome demise. I don't initially know the correct answer when faced with a problem, and in that sense I am entirely the same as you. In the sense of us puzzling over the same problems, struggling on, attempting to reach an answer together, I am sure you should call us unmistakably comrades. I can state that firmly and not with the slightest of embarrassment. I think very fondly of you, in the sense that you give me more methods for preforming investigation, and so I pledge that I would never do anything that would be improper consideration of you. But of course, I'm sure we will naturally encounter problems where even with my assistance, easy surmountation of the problem will be impossible. While I may be able to assist you as a font of knowledge, that doesn't mean I can at all interfere with reality. Should we face a physical obstacle blocking your path, that sort of problem where force is necessary, I will not be able to help you. Times upon times, potentially even hundreds or thousands of times, your mind and body may be broken. But even should that hypothetically happen, I would sincerely wish to preform your mental care. That that desire is without any intermingling from my researcher's interest to not part with something useful is not something I can assert. But that said, it is entirely truth that I think of you and your existence fondly, and that I want to aid you. I don't want you to think badly of me. And I know I'm repeating myself, but I can say with pride that I am a presence useful for achieving your goals. Yes, just as I am considering in a sense to utilize you for the purpose of sating my greedcalled curiosity, you can likewise utilize me for your goal of REACHING THE OPTIMUM FUTURE. To be that kind of overly convenient girl you can take advantage of, for me, is entire satisfaction. If doing so will motivate you, then I will gladly submit my being to you. Although the question of whether you're interested in this deceased and impoverished body would have to be be another topic. Oop, saying that might've been a foul against your loves. Your loves—the silver half-elf, and the blue-haired oni girl. The girls you will save no matter what, who you will stringently protect, having from your heart pledged to do so and through your actions exhibited that volition. Putting my thoughts on the state of your heart and the way it harbours such strong emotion for two girls aside as something I will not state here, I will assert that the height of the walls you must scale will be beyond imagination. How many unmanagable obstacles do you have lined up before you in present reality just that you know of? Your resolve to try and surmount these problems by yourself is honourable, and incredibly tragic. I want to be your aid on this path, with my hopes to be that aid not being anything fabricated in the least. You should definitely utilize these desires of mine. You need to take everything you can possibly have, use everything that you can possibly utilize, and by doing entirely that save the people with which you have bonds. That is the firm conviction you yourself had pledged, which you have fully understood as being a necessary and painful path. And so I will question you, I will repeat with you, I will have feelings for you. The path you walk by throwing away your life is something that ironically only just got certified in the form of the second TRIAL. With how you could almost mistake that TRIAL as having been there to make you comprehend what it is this path you have walked, you could perhaps even think the thing necessary. Of course the reality is it wasn't necessary, and it was the kind of experience which damaged your mind. But if it's between a state of not knowing and a state of yes knowing, no matter how grievous a truth it is, I'd consider the latter more valuable. Up until now, and also from now own, you will need you present your life as compensation for RETURN BY DEATH, and in doing so wrest in the future. That there are perhaps people who've been sacrificed for this purpose, and that these worlds in this fashion PERHAPS MIGHT EXIST was something necessary for you to have put in mind. Someday, you'll cease to feel any emotion when it comes to paying with your life, your human emotions will wane, you'll cease to be rattled by the DEATHS of those precious to you, you'll submerge into a life of impassive, indifferent inertia, and even should you reach the optimum future, you will be reaching it as an impaired version of yourself—for the sake of avoiding this kind of future, where the only thing that remains is a feeling of vain, it was necessary. No, there is not a single worthless thing in the world, everything is a necessary route taken, a needed piece to the puzzle. The TRIAL was necessary for you to comprehend that. If you require a tenable rationalization and pretext as to why you have hit a standstill, then adopt this stance. And I will validate that stance of yours. If my words can give you the strength you need to continue forward, then my words will I give to you. Whether they be comforts, tough motivators, whispers of love, provokers of loathing, if they will give you assistance then without any hesitation will I exercise them for you. And although you might detest it, you unconditionally need the assistance of someone like me on your path forward. If you're to proceed along a road of unavoidable pain and solitude, you absolutely need someone to walk alongside you without ever taking their eyes from the path. And if the person we're talking about to fill that role is me, not anyone else, but me, then I can walk that road alongside you without any problem at all. I will repeat it, I will restate it, I will convey it countless times until it reaches you. —You must need me. And I absolutely need you. Your presence is essential. My curiosity simply cannot be fulfilled without you. You are the only being which can sate me. You, you will surely grant me the quenching of my unquenchable GREED. Your presence is already indispensable for me as I dwell in this closed world. If you should wish to be somebody's hope, to execute your power to clear the world open, could my piteous self perhaps not partake in your leftovers? If you could concentrate any of that great kindness unto me, then I'd hesitate not asecond to devote to you my being, my knowledge, my soul. I'm begging you. I want you to trust me. That I hadn't attempted to communicate you my true motives was assuredly no attempt to deceive you, nor any attempt to hide it from you. It was just a matter of choosing the right time. If here, at this instant I appealed with a fragment of my true intention, you surely would've left me. That would be an unbearable loss for me. And of course for you also, in the sense of distancing yourself from the future you seek, it undoubtedly should be regarded as a definite loss as well. Someday, being that you have your attribute of RETURN BY DEATH, you will surely reach the future you seek. But, it's obviously best that the compensation you pay in reaching that future be little. If it's me, when it's me, a greater sparsity is possible in that compensation. Everything goes so long as ultimately you reach the desired future—and such kind of inhuman thinking, ignoring the small goals for the large ones, is what I'd prefer you not mistake this for. Being caught by a temptation, and so desiring to view the outcome of some certain situation, I may notice something necessary for reaching the optimum track but not mention it—is the kind of action I absolutely would not do, is not how great a check I have on my cravings to be able to plainly assert. I will acknowledge that. But, I will not deceive you. If hypothetically we assume that I do dip my hands into some trust- betraying deed like that, I would under no circumstances do anything to keep it hidden from you. I would absolutely reveal it to you. And I would devote everything I have to you to make up for that damaged trust. No matter what happens, I will assuredly send you off to your desired optimum future. Absolutely, unconditionally. And so having rationalized this clearly as a necessary measure, won't you choose me? Once the contract is made, I will follow along exactly exactly as your desires and demands there state. After that comes the conversation of just how much you can devote yourself to your wish, your wanted wish, your desired wish. My resolve is just as I stated. Now is to hear what is your resolve. I want you to prove to me that you, having formed a contract with me and acquired my collaboration, have the mettle to without fail reach the future. Once you accomplish so then for the first time, you may boast that you bested the second TRIAL. And from there proceed to the third TRIAL, overcome it, and complete the liberation of SANCTUARY. When you consider the calamity to befall your loves and those precious to you, this is indeed exactly a TRIAL you must surmount. I want you to show me that you have the strength, the resolve to overcome it. And from there you will plunder me, utilize my knowledge, and procure what lies ahead. What I desire of you, demand of you, and can offer you in return is there at a full stop. I sincerely, honestly, willed here to reveal you everything. And so now with everything stated what is it you will decide? —That answer is what I'd like you to tell me. For the sake of sating a fragment of my curiosity too, of course.” —Says Echidna, smiling sweetly. That's echidnas speech in the WN

Drathian

Re: Zero is so good that the video is over an hour again lol

Nikolas Tye

This is the whole Echidna speech from the light novel. And yes, there's no pauses. “The Return by Death that you possess is an incredible Authority. You do not comprehend how it is truly to be used. You can redo the world any number of times before you arrive at the result that you desire. To a researcher, this is the ultimate ideal manifesting in physical form. Is that not so? By rights, you should only be able to obtain one result for any particular thing. You can make excessive amounts of varied deductions and suppositions about the results. But there is usually but a single result. You can never repeat the exact same conditions in search of a different result. The conditions all shift: time, environment, memory, procedures. ‘Back then, if I’d only changed one thing, the results would be different.’ This is not in the realm of ideals but of dreams and delusions. Because I have the heart of a researcher, your Authority truly makes my mouth water. With ‘identical conditions’ and ‘verification of differences’ secured, one can identify a ‘proper result’ and a ‘variant result.’ How could I not covet that? With it before me, how could I not test various possibilities? Of course, I will not coerce you to use Return by Death. You will use that power for the sake of the result you desire. And I shall lend my wit as much as you please so that your desire might be granted. I have high hopes that the great many results that shall be borne from this shall serve to satisfy my inquisitive mind. No one would punish a girl for wanting such a small thing, surely? Your desire for a future and my curiosity shall be satisfied together. Perhaps this makes you uneasy, for I do not know the future, either. I will not purposefully lead you to a mistaken future in order to test the results. All Unknowns are equal before me. By mulling and struggling against the same problems, the answer will come. This makes necessary the highest form of relationship between us. I swear I shall protect you with all my heart. But that does not change the fact that I cannot interfere with reality. If a physical obstacle stands before you, I can expect that challenging it will break your mind and body many times over. If it comes to that, I genuinely intend to exert my every power to protect your mind. I will not tell you there are no ulterior motives involved in that. But I don’t want you to think that I am calculating everything because of my inquisitive mind. I do think fondly of you, and it is a fact that my maidenly heart wishes to be of aid to you. I am repeating myself, but you and I are ideally compatibility. I can say it plainly. I will use your power, and you will use me for the sake of your ‘optimal future.’ It is my genuine desire to be a woman used for your own convenience. Though it would only be in this dream world, should you desire it, I do not mind using this body of mine to comfort you. I shall happily grant it to you. Oh my, that might not be the best thing for the people you care for, that silver-haired half-elf and that blue-haired demon…they who you have sworn to save and protect without fail. Not that I can claim any particular opinion toward them, but at any rate, please take it as expressing how strong, how unshakable my feelings are. Many difficulties shall befall you in the future as well. Your resolve shall lead you to challenge them, but that is tragic. I will become the beacon that lights your path. So, too, will I be the bonds you wish to protect. Your questions, your burdens, your feelings, your hopes…unexpectedly, through the Trial, you have taught me just how much value these things hold. Certainly, to you, the scenes you saw might have been Hell itself. But given the choice between knowing beforehand and ignorance, I wish to praise the will to learn even such tragic facts. With these serving as your gruel, you shall stretch a hand toward the future, even at the cost of your life. That Trial was necessary so that you might learn there might be sacrifices made for that future’s sake. As you use Return by Death more and more, perhaps your emotions might fray, perhaps the deaths of people precious to you might fail to move your heart, but most of all, you might have to lose some part of yourself in order to arrive at the place at which you are destined to reach. The Trial prevented that end. I did that, in order to protect you. If those scenes pained your heart, putting you on the verge of breaking, I do not exaggerate in saying I did it for that sake. Because it would serve as the linchpin for your moving forward, I accepted it. With my words, I shall grant you the strength to advance forward. I will console you, I will scold you, I will even love you. Or if it is hatred you require, I will devote that to you, all for you. You like girls who devote themselves to you, yes? You need me. By yourself, you cannot grasp the future. It is none other than I who is the most suitable girl for you. —You need me. And I need you. Already, there is none other than you who can satisfy my curiosity. I mean, I’ve already discovered you. You broadened my world. Through you, I, said to be the Witch bearing the greatest intellect in the world, have tasted the fruit of the Unknown once more. If you want to use that power to save someone, then save me. Having even the crumbs of that noble thought is enough for me. Please. I want you to trust me. Perhaps you think I deceived you because of the fact that I did not expose enough of what I truly thought beforehand. I wanted to get the timing right. If I exposed these feelings while our relationship was still shallow, you would probably have pushed me away. I did not want that. I could not endure that. That goes for you too, yes? If you lost me as a collaborator, your heart would surely be broken. We are both working toward our optimal ends. And I know what that optimal end is. I can help you. Through infinite trial runs, you will arrive at the future, albeit with your heart worn down and scarred by the ordeal. Let me do this. I will never betray your trust. Certainly, my heart might be attracted to the resulting choices, and my inquisitive heart may waver toward paths other than that which is optimal. I cannot hold my own greed in check enough for me to tell you that will never happen. I acknowledge that. But I will gloss over nothing. I will speak openly and honestly. Even if the result of that will damage your trust, I will expend no effort to win that trust back. No matter what might happen, I will, without fail, bring you to the future you desire. I absolutely, absolutely will. So as the choices necessary for that become clear, would you not let me be the one to choose? It will be precisely according to the preamble for the pact: I will grant what you desire, what it is that you seek. It will be no more and no less than this. After that, how much you permit your body to be sliced for the sake of that which you desire and crave is up to you. I have conveyed my resolve. Next, I want to hear yours. I want you to demonstrate that you, who would form a pact with me, who would benefit from my cooperation, have the enduring spirit required to arrive at the future without fail. It is you, the first and only one to overcome the second Trial, who can puff out your chest and speak these words with pride. Do this, please me, and I shall release you from the tomb and guide you to the third Trial. Beyond that rests the liberation of the Sanctuary. In so doing, the precious people most important to you, the people you care about held captive in the Sanctuary, will be saved. For the sake of this, you will undergo a true Trial. For the sake of that, seize me, use me, do with me as you please as you let your greed rage, and we shall grasp the future together. This is everything I have to offer to aid you and find what you desire, what you seek. I intend to peel back everything honestly and earnestly. I will not allow the other girls around us to interfere any longer. It is as you said: This is a matter between you and I alone. I want you to give me your answer. I have told you everything… Truly the naked truth. Passionately. This might be close to love. A vow of love. So how will you respond to my love? I want a reply. This reply, after all, will be another thing serving to satisfy my curiosity.” —With that, Echidna smiled adorably.

Daniel Borrego

oh crap, i just got home to see this!! LETS GO!!!!! ya satella randomly pulling up pumped me up so much. you guys are lucky you can keep watching. the rest of us had to wait like 6 months :D

smth positive_

1:07:55 What if Ben just bought a Satella blanket then to match his Echidna pillow Also the thing with the contract is what would the witch of greed do? Give Subaru the best solution for every problem right away or experiment with different things so she can see every possible outcome for every single loop

Nikolas Tye

Also, I implore you or anyone else reading this to go back to previous scenes with Echidna and watch how how her behaviour changes when talking with Subaru.

XDrakeX

Reinhard is one of the most OP people in this world. Why do you think he was missing from the white whale fight? And the way he effortlessly took on the bowel hunter should have given you an impression on his power level :)

Ttsukasa
>>124995548

All at once, as a giant blob, without form or reason of formatting, Just as he's posted it here, a totally insane rant / speech that originally took us all by surprise.

Ttsukasa
>>125000952

Why post this if an hour before your post literally 2 comments above yours is the exact same thing?

Merfhew
>>124994518

I'm hoping the "If" stories are animated someday, so I've been avoiding them. Sounds interesting.

TrinitytheApostle
>>124995548

It was a challenge to read and try and dissect the entire speech😭but not even close to as hard as the Lilliana named chap

Anonymous

If you'd like to know whether or not Subaru does create different worldlines, it does get explained in a future arc if you care to know. I implore you to look it up. Also, if you'd like to know what would happen if Subaru did accept Echinda's contract, check out the "Re: Zero Greed If" which is a short story by the author explaining what would happen. There are many IF routes by the author. I hope after you finish season 2 you might watch the IF routes that are nicely narrated by Echidnut on youtube.

Beowolf Chow

You ever watch a movie with hackers using a key generator to brute force a password? Now imagine that every blink is someone dying horribly a thousand times, and you get an idea of what Echidna was proposing. Sure, you get the password... in the end, but what about the cost?

Beowolf Chow
>>124995548

So worth the read. I gotta say how impressed I am at how well they managed to convey a good portion of how disconcerting it all is in the much shorter speech in the anime.

Night Sterling

I want to see Ben’s echidna merch collection grow throughout this season 😂

Talon

Lol, Reinhardt is amazingly OP, Puck never stood a chance against him. His divine protections are insane, stuff life "he auto dodges all first attacks, and all attacks he's never seen, and all other attacks..." He's just plain broken.

DJ Hunter

“Them be the rules!” -Anna (I don’t know why, but that made me laugh so hard…Best ending quote ever!)

Nikolas Tye
>>125000952

Didn't see those posts at the time. Hadn't reloaded the page. My bad.

Anonymous

Rather than "trying to imitate emilia" its more like "This is what subura responds well to so I can get what I want". It's more a mix of emilia and and other people based on her knowledge. She is a very manipulative individual but she's also best girl

godUsoland

Ben, 2023: " 'Love me, love me, love me' and how twisted and f*cked up that is, that's appealing" Never change! :D

TrinitytheApostle
>>125008881

Honestly I find him to be similar to Gojo I'm JJK in being an op character, just the author taking a diff tactic to pick and choose him appearing in the story and their own difficulties

Gus N

Everyone sure did type a lot of long ass comments, too bad AutoSave doesn't read comments LMFAO!