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THE FINAL CHAPTERS! SPECIAL 2! of Attack on Titan // Full-Length Reaction (Patreon)

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2023-11-06 22:32:04
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THE FINAL CHAPTERS! SPECIAL 2! of Attack on Titan // Full-Length Reaction

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hman70

Want to thank you guys so much for sharing this journey with us. I got onto your channel late but your uploads were often the highlight of my day. Getting to re-experience the story through your eyes and your super in depth discussions has been nothing but a treat. If you do end up turning a re-watch into content (maybe reading your old comment sections as you go like you’ve thrown out before) I will be along for the ride. See you later, Autosave 🥲

Herminio Hernandez Jr

I really enjoy your thought conversations as you react. It is much appreciated. I am a manga reader and one of the many that was really upset at how the story ended. I felt that the character of Eren retconed and a lot of ways ruined by how Isayama ended the story. Please allow to share some of my thoughts. The revelation that it was all fate is a complete retcon. If you trace the story from post time skip up to the Rumbling the author made it clear that these were Eren's choices. You have read the ending back into the story which completely turns it on his head. Lets look at Eren "real reason" for the Rumbling. He allowed them to kill him so they would be heroes to the world. First this is not consistent with his character. Remember in S1 when Pixis told Eren the story of humanity uniting against a common foe. Eren rejected that as wishful thinking. He would never go for that. Nowhere in the story do we see any hint that this would change. Now let jump to S4 Eren bring everyone to Paths and tells them that he is going to kill everyone beyond the Island to protect his home. We see him walking around Marley pondering if this is best course of action, and he cannot accept the fact of the Island being wiped out. The ending now informs us that this was a lie. He lied to the Island and somehow he is lying in his inner monologue. He was also lying to Floch. Finally he was lying to Historia when he said his goal was end the cycle of hated and the titan curse (both continue). The ending completely reverses the entire story. What makes it worst he tell Armin in the end that this was his plan then a min later says it was all fate. Well which is it? This is bad storytelling and clear sign that the author was stuck and did not know how to properly end it. Finally if Eren real goal was for his friends to have long lived then why did he choose a path that would end up killing Sasha and put those is a situation where he admits that he did not if they would survive. The story on one hand wants you think this was "his plan" and on the other "it was just fate". I personally cannot look at these things and come to the conclusion that this a good ending to this story. I am not looking a perfect happy ending (this story is defiantly not one of those). However I expected an ending that flowed and completed the themes establish in the story. Thanks for allowing me to share. I do look forward to your reactions.

Joshua
>>121597971

It has definitely been a wild ride! Glad I found AutoSave and this was only because of their AoT reactions. Now I've stayed a Patreon for their thoughtful insights for anything they watch.

AngieAngelFish

Firstly, IM CRAZY and addicted to watching AoT reations I watched it on release and then watched two of my favourite reactors [G.O.T Games] & [aliciaxlife] (both are on Patreon also. so in the first day i watched this three times. WITHOUT FAIL everyone feel differently and finds different moments especially impactful. All of Aot is like this. It has to be experienced first hand because no one can convey it to you and no one will have the exact same experience you do. My favourite scene was the one that hurt me the most because it was both horrifying and also the most beautiful thing that i don't think i will ever possibly forget. That is the hands of the people facing what they saw as certain death but still putting their last effort into protecting a strangers baby in the only way they could. I started to cry typing right now. It just exemplifies something about the human spirit to me, we live and we will eventually die, we know this, many try to forget this but it will happen. What are you living for, what are you dying for, what will remain in the end, was there meaning in your existing. I feel all of those questions and so many more compressed into a desaturated vision portraying what life is. Death in front of you death behind you, what are you doing with those moments between the death of memory and the death time brings. Its like that struggle in that moment to protect something, anything, even if only to gain seconds against the inevitable oblivion. It might be the most horrific and beautiful depiction of what life is, at least to me. Of the 4 reactions ive seen of others watching this scene everyone saw it differently, maybe you might see it differently next time you re-watch this.

AngieAngelFish

At the end of the day i love how Eren was depicted, as both the master of his destiny and a slave to fate. How i see it? Kenny was right, life is brutal and people find a meaning in life worth enduring through life's sufferings to make it worthwhile in the end. Zeke found that in the end, just playing catch ball was enough, Though Eren was trapped by the same thing that gave him meaning, an unattainable thing which makes Eren very human in the end. I think Eren was lying to Armin when he swapped the blame. I didn't do this for you i did this because I wanted to level everything. He was trying to save Armin from the guilt, but Armin could see through Eren and took on the blame willingly. I could go on forever trying to convey why Eren makes sense to me (red flag?)

Joshua
>>121606270

In Eren's defense. I do believe he is confused to what he is actually doing, which he does admit. How I see it, this was his mindset in the course of the story. 1. He longed for a barren wasteland outside the walls, because of Armin's stories. 2. To achieve this, he had to be free of the walls and the Titans who has trapped them. 3. He eventually decided he wanted to join the scouts for this reason. 4. After the events in shiganshina, his reason for joining becomes to avenge his mother. 5. To achieve this he had to kill all the enemies outside the walls, Titans and humans alike. 6. He was reminded somewhere throughout the first 3 seasons that his actual reason to join the scouts was to be free to explore the outside world, and not necessarily the elimination of Titans. Although, both these goals allign. 6. This continues until the end of season 3, when he saw visions of the past future. He realized that the entire world hates his race and wants to eliminate them (through geishas memories). He also saw that he will eventually commit genocide at a global scale (through the attack titan). 7. He initially refuses this idea. He was confused how he would resort to this. He believes it can change and thinks his visions cannot be real. 8. However, in the end of season 3 he sees that everything is happening as it was in his visions. He then pointed at disbelief and sorrow outwards towards the sea, asking if eliminating everyone would really set them free. He didn't know the answer himself, although he knows he will eventually end up choosing to do this. 9. In season 4 he was shown to be desperate to find alternative ways to save the island. Zeke proposed both the euthenasia plan and the mini-rumbling plan. 10. Zeke's plan would completey go against what Eren believes at this point, considering his mom's words to Keith emphasizes that being born into the world makes a person free and special. 11. The mini-rumbling plan doesnt work either since this would mean that Armin, Reiner, Annie would still die of the curse. Mikasa would be alone and Historia will be stuck being a cattle and pushing out as many babies as possible to continue the cycle. Odds are, the entire world will still want to kill Eldians for they have the curse of the titans. He refuses this option completely. 12. His last options were to go to Marley to see if they can achieve the goal of saving eldia through political means. This fails and he comes to the conclusion that they will never find another path, and he assumes that this is the reason he goes through with genocide. 13. In his visions he knows that him commiting global genocide will eventually lead to the end of the curse of the Titans. This was needed to achieve his goal of letting his friends live. Coincidentally it also coincides with his childhood desire for a barren wasteland outside the walls. He has motivation, the drive and the desperation needed now to go through with this. 14. Like he said he did not know if his friends would survive the conclusion of this battle. He does know, however, that 1. Mikasa lives (she kills him) 2. Armin lives (he was fighting him). 3. The curse is lifted (he knows Ymir will be set free if Mikasa kills him). 15. He loves Mikasa and he does not want to die. He hates the thought of this. He gives Mikasa the choice on the hill. Eren at this point knows what he himself will do. He knows everything he was gonna do, and accepts that its pre-determined. As a last ditch effort, he gives Mikasa the choice. If she tells him she loves him romantically and tells him to run away, this will break his visions and let him let go of his pre deterministic outlook. It will be enough for him to run away and not go through with genocide, since Eren does not want this deep down. 16. Mikasa says she loves him platonically and this confirmed his visions further. At this point he remains on the path. This was the moment he accepted his faith as a slave to freedom. Hoping this will lead to a better future for his friends. 17. After going through with it, he realizes he got Sasha killed (he did not know this beforehand). He laughs at the irony of it all. Even with all his powers, his foresight, he still failed to protect his friend. This is the point where he probably determined he is just an idiot that got this power and that he is a slave to freedom to a fault. He accepts that he is doing this for himself and himself alone, without any regard to whether some of his friends will die. He does know that some of them will survive (The final battle) and he knows that the curse will be lifted 18. He still chooses to move on. It's basically blind faith that eventually it will resolve itself. Keep in mind that the nature of their friendship is Eren going head first with his fist. He causes more trouble than needed, but Armin steps in to fix the issue. He basically benched all his hope on the fact that Armin could solve the worlds issues, if the titan powers are out of the picture. Do you remember when Armin defended Eren and Mikasa from the canon in S1? He almost failed, purely because the world feared the Titans. He won them over with his logical arguments, but it was for nought, since the fear of the titan will always win them over. This parallels the final scene where Armin does the exact same movements to convince the Marleyans that they are not the enemies. This goes smoother, since the curse of the Titans is no longer a factor. Like Eren said to Falco in the beginning of S4, he wanted to escape hell. He pushes himself forward even though he doesn't want to. He hopes for a better future past this hell, but he himself had no idea if everything after would be brighter, or even more hell. That sums up his whole motivation. It shifted a lot, but in my opinion it always made sense. Eventually it turned into blind faith that Armin can figure it out, but due to his scrambled head, he lost his actual motivation and reverted back to his childhood dream of a barren wasteland of a world. Presumably to cope with all the trauma he must be dealing with. Dont get me wrong, I saw many (many) flaws with the finale, but all I'm saying is that Eren, his speech, his tearful confession, his scrambled head, his messy goal, is not really one of them in my opinion. Sorry for the long comment! And like I said this is how I viewed it. It doesn't have to be exactly accurate.

hman70
>>121606270

Eren was not retconned, unfortunately you just severely misunderstood his character and it only became obvious to you that you were doing so in the final moments of the series. Eren wanted the rumbling to succeed. He tried to wipe out all of humanity. His friends stopped him. He did not “allow them to stop him” he fought to his dying breath. The fact that he is omniscient and knew that his friends would stop him does not mean that it was his plan to be stopped. He kept moving forward trying to achieve his dream without stripping his friends of their freedom. He was not lying in his internal monologue in special 1/chapter 131. I encourage you to re-read them. You say “the fact it was all fate is a retcon because it was previously clear that these were the results of Eren’s choices” I think that reveals where your misunderstanding might be, because it’s absolutely both. AoT is a deterministic timeline, In order to prevent paradoxes from a storytelling perspective, when you go to the past and make “changes” those changes always happened in your timeline already and you end up changing nothing. “Eren did this because he wanted to” and “eren did this because he was fated to” are essentially the same sentence, they end in the same result. And I think that’s my main point, why I’d encourage you to re watch this last conversation with Eren & Armin. It’s Eren’s come to Jesus—series finale Walter White moment. Armin is yelling all the things you’re saying in your comment. “What do you mean FATE? Aren’t YOU the one doing this? Why won’t you do something different” and Eren finally FINALLY breaks down and admits, to himself and the audience, that at the end of the day he didn’t commit the rumbling because he thought it was the best path for peace for the island (as you said in your comment, eren recognizes wars will never end as long as there are people to fight them) he did it *for himself* he started the rumbling because it would make the world more like how he wanted it to be. Walter Whites “I did it for me” No doubt eren cares about his friends and Home, but there’s also no doubt the choices he made ended up making their lives worse especially in the short term. At the end of the day Eren is still a child blinded by the rage and trauma of losing his mother. He is swinging back desperately trying to hurt the people who hurt him and smacking his friends with his flailing fists in the process. “this happened because I’m a garden variety idiot who fell into great power”

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

Did you read the open panels in 139? Armin: “did you push us away just to set us up as heroes that saved all of humanity?” Eren: “that right” Armin was referring to the table scene (chapter 112) so at least from then he was planning on allowing them to win. By definition that is a retcon. I do not mind criticism, it’s all welcome just please do the reading before hand.

hman70
>>121606270

Those are the first lines of the conversation. By the end of the conversation eren admits that that is not the truth. Armin: “are you really saying you did this all for us?” Eren: “no. I didn’t. I wanted to level everything. I wanted to see this sight. I don’t know why I just wanted to do this…I thought I was doing everything to protect all of you, but I ended up (killing Hange Sasha Floch etc). It happened because I’m an idiot, that’s all there is to it”

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

You did not read the manga. This conversation was changed. Here is the original conversation Eren: "Even if I did not know that you would stop me in the end, I still think I would have flattened this world" The author retconed his retconed. This is further proof that the author was stuck and did not know how to end the story. So he resorted to retcons.

Joshua
>>121606270

I think if you're grievance mostly came from the final scenes with Armin, then yes. I understand how manga readers would've felt bad about the ending. The way the conversation was worded were worse than in the anime. Your original point, however, was about Eren's seemingly conflicting motives. I think bear profile pic dude was just saying (which I believe as well) is that, it was both fate and his own will that led to this conclusion. Nothing about Eren's motives or drive really was retconned within the story. His goals and priorities were simply shifted a few times. How I see it, is that Eren saw the future and thought him and the squad will never find another (better) solution. And in a way in the race against the upcoming global Alliance who called for war against Paradis, he was correct. Hange and Armin also mentioned that they blamed themselves a bit for not showing Eren a better path. Eren desperately fought the future he saw, but he eventually gave in and accepted it fully. And just because it's "fate" it doesn't mean it isn't him doing things. He takes full responsibility as the idiot who could not think of a better solution other than violence. He had the drive, motivation and desperation to go with the rumbling, and like he said, he probably would've done it regardless of his attack titan visions. All his actions (that he saw through his visions) are actions that Eren as a character would logically take. If you consider how he was for the last seasons. Tldr: Eren says everything is determined. But he is still the one to follow this path. He is the one that caused the rumbling. His future foresight and his childhood dreams simply egged it on further.

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

In the last chapter it was more than just fate. Here is a comparison of motives Pre final chapter Eren did the Rumbling - to protect the Island and his friends - to end the cycle of hated - to end the curse of the Titans - to protect Historia The final chapter it is revealed that Eren did not know why he did the rumbling. He was just an idiot who got power and want kill everyone. Eren pre final chapter and the Eren at the end are not the same person. The final chapter assassinates his character by nullifying all the motives that were already established.

Joshua
>>121606270

Ya, the manga seems like it butchered it. But the anime counterpart seems like it improved his little speech. So from this point, I'll just be talking about the anime. Looking at how the anime heavily retconned the discussion between Eren ans Armin, convinced me that Isayama did in fact mess up more than just the wording in the final chapter. The ideas and dialogues were just different enough to convey different things. Here is my take. (For the anime version) - He says he thought he was doing it to protect his friends. With this he implied that he genuinely started this thinking he was doing it for their sake. - He says "But Sasha and Hange died. I put you into lethal confrontations with Floch". With this he says that his first statement cannot be true, given the disregard he had for their safety. - With that in mind he came to the conclusion that he did it for his own selfish desire for "freedom". For a free and empty world. Even without the foresight of the future he had and without knowing the outcome for his friends, he came to the conclusion that he would've done the same thing, since he is a slave to freedom and will try to achieve it at any cost. It was his birthright, after all. It was his birth right to explore the world outside the walls without anyone else to trample over this dream. - And since he is an "idiot", unlike Armin his only way to achieve this freedom is to be violent and cause genocide. This was the only outcome that is possible, since an idiot would always just resort to violence to achieve his goal. He actually tried to find another way, but eventually this is the only one he came up with. In a way I think Eren doesn't know why his drive for freedom is there. And this was never really answered. He was just born with it. He was even willing to stab people who would dare take his and his love one's freedom away from them. Massacre them. Ever since he was a child he was this monster for freedom's sake, and because of life events (Carla dying, him becoming a titan, him learning of the truth of the world) his idea of freedom slowly morphed into complete genocide of the entire world (which is trying to steal his and his friend's freedom). So I don't see it as Eren changing, but more so he just became more radicalized, but he always had the same goal. Hope this makes sense, I'm rambling a bit too much lol.

Joshua
>>121606270

But I understand that having this scene retconned for the anime implies some retroactive wish whashing to correct some obvious flaws. I understand your qualms with the writing for sure.

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

I think they tried to fix it in the anime, but in the we still have a different Eren. If he wanted to keep the alliance as the winners he could have had Eren's conversation in paths be something like Eren's still holding to motive but acknowledging that he was defeated. Then challenging Armin to prove him wrong and peace can be made. This both character ideals and motivations are preserved. If you look into Isayama interviews over the years he has been all over the place. In some he says he changed the ending in other he says this was the ending he was going for. I really think he wrote himself into a corner and did not how to get out so decided to flip things in its head. Pretty sad

Joshua
>>121606270

But that doesn't really solve the issues. If Armin and Eren come to a peaceful conclusion in the paths, then 1. The titan curse won't be lifted, since Ymir will not see Mikasa defy his beloved Eren when he is commiting genocide. 2. Armin, Reiner, Annie will die in a few years. 3. The left over factions will remain afraid of the Eldians and discrimination of the Eldians will continue. At this point Eren's path is sealed and the only conclusion that will fulfill all his wishes would be to be killed by Mikasa to show Ymir the path she should've taken with Fritz.

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

The whole issue with how the Titan curse ended is a massive plot hole. Ymir loving her abuser then waiting for 2000 years for Mikasa to overcome her love for Eren by killing him is so horrible. Equating Eren with King Fritz is another example of character destruction. Fritz not only did not love Ymir he abused her in horrific ways. He was an evil man motivate his lust for power. Eren is not this character. Eren motivations were not govern by malice and a lust for power until the final chapter. This who plot only makes sense if you retcon Eren and turn him into an idiotic psychopath who just wanted to kill.

hman70
>>121606270

Friend I respect your opinions on the ending’s quality and how it played out. This last comment was my favorite you’ve made so far because it came the closest to describing your actual criticism of the show. You just don’t like Eren’s character, you wish the show had a different protagonist than it did—or at least that eren’s character had gone in a dramatically different direction. That’s perfectly fine, I personally believe the version of Eren you wished existed would make the story worse, but that’s just my opinion and I’m sure Isayama could have made it work somehow. The problem are these baseless accusations about a retcon when the word you’re looking for is “reveal”. I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but you’ve ignored my explanation for why Eren’s internal monologue and *professed* motivations pre-139 are wholly compatible with the admissions of the finale. Eren believed what he was proclaiming about his motivations even if he wasn’t correct. He’s a self contradictory mess in 131. Just look at your own words, when you listed “Eren’s motivations pre rumbling” even at the time eren proclaims these motivations they’re all blatant nonsense to attentive viewer -‘to protect the island and his friends’ yet his plan kills Sasha and Hange. And if he had succeeded it would have KILLED ALL HIS FRIENDS who were trying to stop him -‘to end the cycle of hatred’ laughably nonsensical. He plans to leave humanity alive on the island. Over and over and over the text of AoT repeats and repeats that the cycle of violence will never end as long as there are people alive with opposing beliefs. It will all play out again on the tiny island -‘to end the curse of the titans’ that’s made up, this was never part of Eren’s stated plans pre-rumbling. The titan powers would have continued to exist after the rumbling -‘to protect historia’ he made historia complicit in global genocide by telling her about it before hand potentially condemning her to a lifetime of guilt and shame (though I admit she would have been in the least danger from this plan) So when Armin points all this out to Eren, as I am to you, Eren puts his ego aside to admit that his motivations were much more selfish that he was ever able to admit before this moment of catharsis. If Eren really had all the goals that he and you claim he had then he would have acted differently. He committed the violence he committed because thats the kind of person he is, he will steal someone else’s freedom before he allows them to steal his. He’s a traumatized young man who never emotionally matured past the day his mother died and who’s only means of interacting with the world around him is through violence. There wasn’t a re-write, it wasn’t out of nowhere, more information was explicitly revealed about a character and you just didn’t like how the story went. There’s nothing wrong about that, stand your ground, but your claims about a retcon are not supported by the text.

Joshua
>>121606270

We can agree to disagree at this point. To me it made sense. Fritz's motivation is a whole lot more selfish and evil compared to Eren. But if you imagine for a bit, if Fritz had the same power as Eren, he would most likely destroy all life outside of his Eldian Kingdom. Eren, given the same power, destroys all life outside the walls (outside his kingdom of Eldia). Drastically different motivations, but very similar (evil) outcome. Fritz is incomparable to Eren by motives and personality, but in the end both chose to use the power of the titan to wipe out those they deemed their enemies, which is literally everyone outside their kingdom of Eldia. No matter how you twist it, it is the same. Ymir in the end wasn't saying her love for Fritz was similar, to Mikasa's love for Eren. If anything, the show made it very very clear than it is different. Ymir realized her "love" for Fritz is just blind unconditional obedience, which she misconstrued as love. Ymir, growing up in this environment literally did not understand love. The example she took for "love" and happiness was the woman being forcedfully betrowed to her abuser (the image they kept showing). Mikasa showed her true love. That true love is not unconditional enslaving yourself for your love one's. It is not blindly obeying their every order. Mikasa showed Ymir that you can love someone, and cut off their head when they go on and commit mass genocide. You are not a slave to the person you love. Her final moments shows Ymir realizing (what Armin realized himself) that the love and hapiness she searched for, searched for 2000 years, was there all a long in front of her. Her kids. The children of Ymir. Instead of realizing she had her children, she made her children (both her actual daughters and her descendants) suffer tremendously, just so she can fulfill Fritz's final request, in the hopes that this will give her the love and hapiness she was longing for. Eren as well is not a psychopath. He doesn't have to be to make this all make sense. He is an idiot for sure, like he said only an idiot would resort to extreme violence like he did, given the power they had. A psychopath would be Fritz. I highly doubt Fritz would even bat an eye if he went through with the rumbling. Eren on the other hand could not mentally and physically live with the consequences of his actions. The actions that he did not want to do, but deep down knew was the only way for what he thought was true freedom. He isn't an evil psychopath. But his actions are still evil. And even if he isn't selfish for his own sake, he is still selfish for his friends sake. He is selfish. He chose the rumbling in the determent of all those lives, and his friend's well being. The most selfless course of action was what the scouts collectively agreed on, which was the miniature rumbling and threat of the rumbling. But to Eren this was not "his" true vision of freedom. He selfishly chose to go through the rumbling despite any one else's choice, because he is the idiot that he claimed to be. The freedom-obsessed idiot that would end up using violence to solve his problems.

Joshua
>>121606270

All on all, I do see a lot (I mean a lot) of flaws with the finale. A lot of loose plot points and a lot of plot holes. I would've changed quite a bit myself. But it is really mind-boggling to me how many of the online critiscm from the manga community are bashing on the things that I actually thought were done well. It is interesting to say the least.

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

hman70, So not only did you not read manga you forgot the anime. Go back and watch season 4. I was going to take the time and pull quotes where stated those as his goals but you need a refresher on Attack on Titan

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

Joshua, A lot of the hate and frustration comes from two places 1. Love for story that people have been invested with for over 10 years that went sides ways 2. Respect for an author who failed to stick the landing and this which even in his own interviews admitted were signs of bad writing.

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

Joshua, Eren was not selfish. He did not to do the rumbling to begin with. Remember when it was first suggested to a partial rumbling but to do so would require sacrificing Historia? He opposed that plan and said another solution besides the rumbling. They look for 3 years and there was none because the world was determined to wipe them out. The world did not want to talk and at the conference where the speaker made it clear that world should focus his hate on the island. Eren did not want this path (I am talking narratively I know the final chapter reverses all this). You can see this when he engages with Ramzy. He wept for he knew he was to do. Talking was never going to work. The only reason the General in the end made that vow was because he say an army of Titans marching on him. Floch was right when he said if Eren lost Eldia would drown in a sea of blood. The final panel we Eldia being carpet bombed when maybe 50-100 years have past. Once the world was able they got their revenge. Now the anime changed it to make it look much further into future to make not look Eren was a complete failure. BTW enjoyed this discussion. It always a good thing to receive different points of review.

hman70
>>121606270

Why would you want to pull quotes to prove that those were his stated motives, do you think that I don’t believe those were his stated motives? What about my message gave you that impression?

Herminio Hernandez Jr
>>121606270

Hman70 I misread what you said. You just do not believe it was a retcon. This is where we disagree. Describe the Eren pre 139 and the describe the Eren in 139. Those are not the same people. You can say there was not a change but it is another thing to demonstrate that the ending was consistent with the rest of the story. The notion that he just a violent person if refuted in the story. He did not want to resort the rumbling. He wept over Ramsey and struggled with his decision to do the rumbling. This idea that Eren was just violent and wanted to kill only occurs in the end and no where else.

Joshua
>>121606270

Eren was selfish. Of course it is incomparable with Fritz by any means. Fritz did everything for him self and his lust, greed and just pure evilness. Fritz was selfish and evil. Eren on the other hand did the rumbling for the freedom of his comrades. He did not experience the titan-free world that he eventually created. However, you have to see this as a trolley problem. He is selfish, because he chose the life of his friends over the lives of countless innocent people. Children, women, children were snuffed out all because he could not accept sacrificing Historia and her lineage. Historia did the selfless thing and without any hesitation accepted this burden and was willing to sacrifice herself. The rest of the scouts were opposed this plan too, but we're willing to do it if all things fail. The trolley problem of Historia vs 80% of humanity is simply too out of balance to ignore. He is in fact selfish because he chose his beloved friend over the countless lives outside the walls. He did not want this path himself and was also desperate to look for an alternative. He wept and apologized to Ramzy because in his mind the only choice to achieve true freedom as he saw it, would be to commit genocide. It doesn't change the fact that he selfish to do so. And yes, the panels does make it seem like the peace achieved by Eren was not too long compared to the anime counterpart. I'd sooner say 100-200 or even much longer judging by the drastic difference in architecture. None of the buildings and city plan looks anything remotely similar too. So to be fair, it is still much longer of a peace than anything we have seen in our reality. Also all his friends are long dead at that point. And judging by the advancements, the world did pretty good when titan powers are out of the picture. But I guess the main story is that titan powers are simply weapons. It is deadly, because humans themselves are deadly monsters that will misuse it. Similar to the nukes shown in the final panels. Edit: and yes I like this discussion. I don't see us really coming together and agreeing too much, but it a hell of a lot better than most toxic discussions I've had in most threads on YouTube about the finale lmao

hman70
>>121606270

Yeah it seems we’re at an impasse in that regard and this kind of comment section isn’t necessarily the forum where anyone’s mind is going to be changed. I’ll leave saying the best evidence I’ve got in my pocket is go watch the first 15 minutes of the new LM Reactions finale video where before watching the episode they predict how they think the show will end and, IMO, perfectly describe Eren’s character. Their description of him encapsulates his entire personality and explains better than I am how the eren of 139 is completely consistent with his portrayal throughout the entire series. Lola at 30:35 “I love him, I love him SO much, but yeah I just, he is sad and pathetic right now, I don’t know what to tell you and I think eren would tell you that too if he could own up to it”

Joshua
>>121606270

I love their discussion, omg. It was a like they were peaking in my brain, how they encapsulated how I felt so accurately. Even most of their criticisms I agreed with (I have more critiscms though)