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Hey everyone!

So, last week I had a big chat with the team over at Nebula.

Nebula is a Netflix-like streaming platform where a very select group of creators can post their YouTube videos - and Nebula subscribers can view them ad free, and sometimes with additional bonus content. The creators also get a much better cut per view than YT.

It's used by a bunch of cool people you probably know like Lessons from the Screenplay, Extra Credits, Philosophy Tube, Jacob Geller, People Make Games, HBomberguy, and Tom Scott. So, a cool group of guys and gals.

Now if I did this, it would change, essentially, nothing about what currently happens. I'd still upload all my videos to YouTube. Patrons get exactly what they do now, and in fact any special bonuses made for Nebula would also be given to Patrons.

People on Nebula can advertise the fact they're on Nebula in a sponsored segment - but its not mandatory. Jacob Geller will invite you to join Nebula in most videos, but HBomberguy never mentions its existence. I think personally I'd do it very rarely or never - except in a situation outlined below. 

So I want to outline the three major reasons I'm interested in signing up:

1) This gives me an additional revenue stream, which provides a safety net. If either YouTube or Patreon went away, I'd still have Nebula. If Patreon announced next month that it's switching to only accepting cryptocurrency and I lost 90% of Patrons, I'd have somewhere to go. Right now my eggs aren't in enough baskets, this would help with that.

2) Joining Nebula gives me access to a lot of resources. You get a Slack channel with access to the aforementioned creators, you can request editing and animation help, and you get bonuses like music libraries and legal rep. 

3) Each year I think about getting a sponsor for the GMTK Game Jam - mostly as a way to pay the volunteers on Discord. But I've never found the right fit*. Nebula could be the right fit - no conflict of interest, extremely lightweight, and relevant to my channel. 

In terms of cons... I can't really see any. I've spoken to some of the creators associated with Nebula and they all seem happy with it. I retain all the rights to my videos, I can leave whenever I want, I'm not forced to run any sponsor messages, it doesn't impact the current YouTube or Patreon experience.

So... just kinda wanted to throw it out there and get your views! Like I say, this wouldn't really change anything except maybe mentioning Nebula in a few videos per year, or perhaps just the Game Jam.

Poll available, but lemme know any additional thoughts in the comments please!

*I started speaking to a certain very large game engine about sponsoring the jam before realising it would be a massive conflict of interest. Oooh, so the game made in Engine X won - and Engine X is a sponsor! How very sus!

Comments

Platitudinous

Hell yeah! I agree with what you said about there being no downsides, and if it's good for you, I see no reason not to go for it.

Anonymous

I already have a nebula subscription so wouldn't change anything for me. Though I admit I tend to visit YouTube more often. But nebula is nice as it's very distilled video content, so the average quality is better.

Anonymous

Yeap, that's all fine, and nice of you to ask for our feedback on such a move/additional platform! Go for it, hope it brings in even more viewers to your content!

Anonymous

As long as all bonuses are still going to patrons as normal, seems fine to me.

Anonymous

If nothing changes for people accessing your content via YouTube and Patreon, makes no difference to me. Do what you feel you should do.

Anonymous

I see no reason why you shouldn't. As another pro besides the additional revenue stream, it gives your videos another place to exist in case the Youtube versions become inaccessible or some reason.

Anonymous

Go for it! I may not have a Nebula subscription due to already having too many other subscriptions and Patreon patronage, but if you truly feel like you're ready for the next step, then go for it!

Anonymous

Another revenue safety net for you is a good thing, and we don't lose anything we have now. Go for it.

Anonymous

I don’t use Nebula, but as long as your videos keep coming to YouTube and otherwise don’t change, it sounds like a win-win. Good luck!

Joel Eblin

I have a Nebula subscription and I would like your videos over there. Sometimes I prefer a more focused viewing experience without all of the YouTube stuff, and Nebula is a great for that for me.

Anonymous

This sounds great, Mark!

Anonymous

I already use nebula, and would love to see your content there! It’s a much more educational and focused content feed, which I appreciate.

Anonymous

Go for it! I think this will help GMTK grow even further and that's not a bad thing, isn't it?

Anonymous

Might as well give it a try!

Anonymous

I would be annoyed to see sponsor messages, but other than that, go for it!

Anonymous

Has anyone opted out of the Nebula programme? And why? But otherwise, retaining all rights/options prior to joining Nebula sounds like a win-win there. Worth giving it a shot :)

Francis Irving

This is also great insurance for us, your viewers. If YouTube goes bad (trying to keep up with TikTok, say) we need a place to keep high quality video essays going. Nebula could be ready to be that place.

Anonymous

I have a Nebula subscription even though I rarely watch stuff there, just because I want to support exactly the creators that are there. You'll be in very good company!

GameMakersToolkit

Looks like CGP Grey and Kurzgesagt have left Nebula. I can't find any information about why, though. (FWIW, the contract allows me to leave Nebula with only a month's notice, so if it sucks I can ditch it!)

Anonymous

I love the idea of gmtk having a safety net as YouTube is so unstable and if it doesn't conflict with anything I can't see anyone having a problem

Anonymous

I could see a downside though: Nebula creators on average sit very much on the left of the ideological spectrum within their fields (we know art and even engineering is political). It seems to fit your view on thing (and probably most of your patrons), but you definitely have parts of the audience that doesn't want "politics in their games" and your mere joining of the same platform as some prominent lefttubers or anti-racist movie and music critics can spark their outrage! F*ck them, though.

Anonymous

Never heard of it before, but if you just want it as an extra platform (just like some others use Odysee/former Lbry) I don't see any immediate problem with it. Can't judge if one can ignore any perceived political views just based on the platform (or how severe they are).

Felix Freiberger

Go for it! The key part is not changing anything for patrons – I _did_ feel cheated with some other channels when their videos basically told me “there'd be more content here if you'd be watching this on Nebula”, with that bonus content not being on Patreon. But as long as patrons get full access as before, there's no downside at all, and more revenue benefits everyone!

Anonymous

I already have a Nebula subscription too - I appreciate their model. From their FAQ: "Nebula is not intended as a YouTube competitor, so we’re not actively working toward an open platform". As you said, there are no obvious cons, and you'd be in great company.

Anonymous

I've seen so many sponsored segments for Nebula at this point, it's nice to get a view behind the scenes at what it's like for creators! From what you're describing, there seem to be no downsides (especially if you can leave at any point at short notice), and it seems like a good move for GMTK long-term as you mention. The single minor issue I have with Nebula is how their sponsored segments always seem to get creators to use possessive pronouns ("our platform", etc), which feels to me like it's a bit misleading as creators don't seem to have more control of the platform on Nebula than Youtube, unless I'm missing something? Definitely not a reason to not go for it, just maybe something to keep in mind whenever you do sponsorships with them.

Anonymous

Never heard of it but if everything stays the same for us and Youtube videos are still uploaded regularly I don’t see any problems in you trying other platforms. Go for it!

Theis Egeberg

I see no reason not to. But I'd probably just join Nebula at some point because most of the things I follow are on there anyway. So in the long run you might loose the patreon stream. You know, there are people who do this completely solo, without any platform. http://pointfree.co is a good example (although very unrelated).

GameMakersToolkit

From what I understand, Nebula creators do get to make decisions about the future of the platform and company, and do hold a financial stake in the firm

Anonymous

Logically it seems sensible to join nebula. I haven't heard anything negative about it. Illogically... egh. I've always found those sponsored segments from nebula creators really unpleasant. It also could make people nervous you'd leave a platform like YouTube behind, even if you say you wouldn't. Maybe you could join nebula but keep it chill, just pop it in as an alternative to patreon whenever you talk about that.

Anonymous

Your arguments make total sense and as long as your content will still be available on YouTube I'm fine with it. However the last time I tried Nebula (as a user, not a content creator) I found the experience just awful, especially for a paid service. So right now I don't have any intention of getting a subscription there, again.

Benj

Wholeheartedly agree with that final sentence.

Benj

It really sounds like all upsides.

Edward Earl Newton

The prophesied TierZoo/GMTK crossover is nigh.

ZoidbergForPresident

When I started reading I was about to stop my Patreon support then I read the rest, answered not sure because I'm not comfortable with being one-sided but baring what you wrote here is accurate and that tere are no hidden stuff, I'd say go for it.

Anonymous

If it helps make it easier to do what you love, then go for it! I just signed up to Nebula a few days ago and have been watching my favourite creator onjt rather than YouTube to support them more.

Chloe

If you were to go through with this, I could see myself and potentially a few other viewers asking the following: "Hey Mark, I want to support your work. I can only afford Patreon or Nebula, but not both. Which would be the best way to support you?" Thoughts or insights?

Magnus Köhler

As long as you make sure people know it's just another way to watch the same content you should be fine. Would you be allowed to say that patreon is still the main way to support you and people also can watch your content on nebula?

Anonymous

Eggs is eggs.

Erin Brioche

It doesn't seem like there's any reason really not to with the argument you laid out!

GameMakersToolkit

The answer is 100% Patreon - that is a slight worry, yeah, which is why I wouldn't be mentioning Nebula very regularly.

Dalen W. Brauner

I'm sure you will- but please keep us updated on how it goes! Even if it's just mentioning off-hand from time to time "Yep, still uploading to Nebula, seems to be working out fine."

Anonymous

I think the idea of Nebula is a good one (and I’m a Nebula subscriber). But I’d suggest talking with someone who was on Nebula and left to see if the reason they left might apply to you. I know CGO Grey was in early but is no longer. I also know Jill Bearup (stage combat videos) was there and no longer is. If you do talk to folks and find their reasons for leaving aren’t applicable to you, then feel free to mentally convert my “maybe not sure” vote to a “heck yeah” vote.

Anonymous

Seems like it would only have upsides for you. To be honest I find some creators really push Nebula hard in their videos, and I really don't like how they make some of their content exclusive to that platform (a bit paradoxical coming from someone who uses Patreon, admittedly, though the difference I see is that creators almost never use Patreon to post content that wouldn't appear on their main channels. These are bona fide bonuses). That said, having been a subscriber for 4 or 5 years at this point, and a Patron for basically as long, I trust you when you say it won't change anything to your current output. So I say go for it.

Anonymous

Don't see why you wouldn't join. I have Nebula and while it's not a service I open up regularly, every time I do it's always quite nice, not to mention the vids will be on YouTube anyway. Also anything that helps you with revenue just do it!! You need to be more selfish sometimes haha

Anonymous

Sounds like a win/win for creator/consumer, especially if other creators vouch for it as well!

Anonymous

The biggest con about nebula is the lack of comments (that's a pro in some cases) and the possible reduction in YouTube recommendations due to your most devoted audience watching your content on nebula instead. It's definitely a good idea to diversify your platforms though because as you've seen YouTube can take away any feature even with a lot of negative fanfare.

Anonymous

Go nuts - I'm not really ever going to use nebula as I just want all my videos in one place, but as long as you keep posting everything to YouTube and it shows up in the subscriptions tab then you can do what you want as far as I'm concerned!

Parachuting Turtle

Absolutely yes. I strongly support any and all methods of lessening dependency on youtube. As for those who think this would make Patreon obsolete or less worthwhile: there can always be patreon rewards that don't or can't make it to Nebula (the reading list for instance, or any text based post on Patreon).

Anonymous

I'm totally for it and have considered getting a Nebula subscription before. I don't know a whole lot about how it works for content creators, but it seems like a curious business model if creators are uploading the same content to their paid subscription as well as free platforms like YT? Is the thinking that they provide value by being a sort of curated list of high quality content or is Nebula hoping creators eventually make Nebula specific content? Or maybe more pessimistically, do you think they would add that as a requirement of their creators at some point?

Anonymous

You have my - and I assume our - complete support. Whatever makes life better and more sustainable for you and your work.

Anonymous

Seems like there are no downsides., so yeah, go for it. I let my Nebula subscription run out bc I didn't like the overall UX that much. It's not very easy to browse/explore imo. Also I was in via Curiosity Stream and I didn't find much value in that. I just watch YouTube ad-free with my adblocker...

Anonymous

I'm not a Nebula subscriber, and I doubt I'll join yet *another* video subscription service. But if you think it would benefit you, then I can't see why you wouldn't do it, even though it wouldn't affect my patronage or content at all.

Anonymous

I think it makes sense for you to join. The one thing I would add is that I know some people (myself included) who have a pretty negative perception of Nebula due to how some of the creators use it. I've personally stopped watching a few different channels because the last third or so of every video is a commercial for Nebula and they always say something like "Well if you want to see the other half of this video, it's only on Nebula." They way you plan to do it makes sense and wouldn't push me away, but just wanted to mention it because others may have a similar negative perception of Nebula because of certain creators.

jt

I agree with all the comments above re: Nebula (the platform itself, how other creators have used it). It sounds like this is more a decision that's impactful for you rather than us/the audience, which is fine imo. What I appreciate is that you've let us know so if we find we're having a negative experience or something, we'll be able to tell you. That said, doesn't sound like there's much of a downside, so my thought is simply "sure, why not?"

Anonymous

I watch things on Nebula whenever I can to support creators and also because it’s a nicer experience. Would love to see GMTK there too

Anonymous

I pay for Nebula and Curiosity Stream. I like the platforms, but they need to just merge already. Having both of them separate makes little sense to me, and I find myself rarely using either. I pay for them because I want to support creators better. I know YouTube is a terrible company, but it's the best way to watch ALL the content I like, so it's a necessary evil. So I will keep supporting Nebula/CS for as long as I can, and I hope more creators such as yourself move content over to them, if only to help build a better library of content and encourage others to support.

Anonymous

Theres a few other creators over at Nebula that I really enjoy, it seems like a good group. I would not mind ads for it in your YT videos, I tend to watch and enjoy ad segments if the creator is advertising themselves. I think SarahZ mentions Nebula in every one of her videos, and it never bothers me.

Tukaro

As you describe it, I say go for it. However, I do have some questions/concerns (in part because this is the first time I've ever heard of Nebula): 1) Are you uploading videos to Nebula, or is Nebula streaming your videos from Youtube? I would assume the former (YT would be unhappy with such streaming, I'd think) but the phrase "creators can post their YouTube videos" makes me think the latter. 2) Does (or could) Nebula have a Patreon hook ala Discord? Join the Patreon, get access to the videos on Nebula from that creator. (I wouldn't expect it now, but you mention in an above comment that it's almost like a co-op where creators have some direct ownership so perhaps an earworm to throw out there?) This would decrease the risk of revenue streams being in competition, which leads me to... (Whoops, hit enter and not CTRL) 3) If you're uploading bonus content to Nebula /and/ to Patreon, and having to inform people about activity on Nebula and on Youtube, are you worried about becoming overloaded? The initial work is the same, but the number of places to put it has increased and each place has its own things to finagle with. (And should you ever turn on Youtube Memberships then it will be three places. Plus your usual interactions with Twitter, Discord, etc.) My concern is that if it does lead to overloading/burnout, one stream gets priority over the other. Not something I'd be angry about--you're one person and a bit of help, after all--but if I felt that another service was being highly prioritized over the one I use, esp. a service I'd have no interest at belonging to (as it stands), I would likely drop support on the service I do use.

Anonymous

I'm also a Nebula subscriber and would love to see more great content like GMTK on the platform. My only hesitation is that I noticed recently that Jill Bearup (who I originally discovered on Nebula) has quietly left the platform. She hasn't mentioned it on her Patreon or anything as far as I've noticed though, so my guess is that she found it wasn't worth the extra admin to maintain all her videos on a second platform that probably gets a lot less views. Personally I still end up watching most of the creators I follow on Nebula on YouTube instead, just because I find the Android/PS4/PS5 YouTube apps to be more convenient and user-friendly than the Nebula website, so I don't know how many views they lose to that in addition to their smaller user-base. As you said above though, you can leave with a month's notice anyway, so as long as you're fine with the putting in the initial work to get it set up it seems like it's definitely worth giving a try.

JC

I see no downside to this either. I personally don't use Nebula (or any other paid streaming platform for that matter) but if it helps support you financially and you're still posting the same content to YouTube then I don't see why not.

Anonymous

Seems to me like there's no real downside to joining Nebula. Personally, I do have a a Nebula subscription, but to be honest I still often watch videos over on YouTube even if it's also available on Nebula. But I basically figure that since my having a Nebula subscription supports creators on that side...and since I find the YouTube UX slightly better...I might as well watch there and drive up views on the YouTube side. I do agree with some of the other comments that the trend of "half of the video on YouTube, now subscribe to Nebula to see the rest" was really annoying. However, I feel like the creators I follow have mostly moved away from that. Instead, the Nebula bonus content has moved more to "If you enjoyed this and want an interesting side story, there's a bonus video on Nebula" which I'm much more okay with.

Anonymous

I don't subscribe to Nebula, but I can't really see a disadvantage for you from trying it, so sure, go for it?

Luna

A counterpoint: the watching experience on Nebula is quite subpar, or at least it was when I looked. I wrote them a 600 word review on the App Store, and I'll briefly summarize the points I made in that review here: for Apple users, there's no integration with the rest of the ecosystem. No Apple TV channel (unlike Curiosity Stream which Nebula is part of). The app on iOS is just a skin over a web browser, which means it behaves strangely and doesn't support the native video viewing controls that you expect to find on the platform. There are RSS icons on audio program pages that don't do anything. Videos on the site don't resume from where you left off (they do in the app). Navigating away from an audio program in the app causes the audio to stop playing instead of shifting to the background. There's no dark mode, which means using the site hurts my eyes (like with Patreon...). There's more, but ultimately what I'm trying to say is that the content is great but the watching experience is really poor. Maybe it's improved recently, but the last time I looked it was so painful that I gave up.

Anonymous

You deserve all the financial stability you can get. You are essentially the number one game design education source I can think of outside of actual schools dedicated to the industry. I'm still weirded out by the fact that it took you so long to get a million subscribers. You're the best in your field. Go for it

Anonymous

I am not familiar with Nebula. I will check it but I am not too keen on subscribing to another streaming platform. I'd rather support the creators directly. I'll most likely keep on following you on YT. But if it brings you more financial stability, go for it! I'd love to talk with you about your needs for sponsoring the Game Jam. My school won't be able to do it directly but I could bring in some interesting partners.

C.J. Smith

As long as you're sure you aren't going to stress yourself out with any extra work.

Anonymous (edited)

Comment edits

2022-01-23 20:40:07 Love seeing you appreciate all the same YT creators that I do <3
2022-01-20 18:19:27 Love seeing you appreciate all the same YT creators that I do <3

Love seeing you appreciate all the same YT creators that I do <3