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The Hobbit: A Long Expected Autopsy (Patreon)

Published:
2018-03-27 07:09:04
Edited:
2018-07-25 19:18:58
Imported:
2022-03

Content

Part one of two. 

Files

The Hobbit: A Long-Expected Autopsy (Part 1/2)

In which we look back at The Hobbit trilogy and try to give it a fair shake. Twitter: @thelindsayellis Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/loosecanon

Comments

Anonymous

Get dem popcorns ready! 😄

Anonymous

yaaaas! except I'm traveling all day but yaaaaas!

Joe Bloe

I was in the middle of binging old Nostalgia Chick videos when this posted. Huh. Another time, Cutthroat Island video.

Anonymous

Nice I noticed the e-mail 4 minutes after the video was uploaded. Front row.

Dakota_Pagota

aw shigdiggy guess im not going to sleep yet

Joe Bloe

Welp, that happy ending made my day.

Anonymous

It's been too long since I've rewatched the trilogy and the special features. Can't wait for part 2.

Anonymous

Damn I'm in work all day, will need to wait until tonight. Life is pain. Ah well, Thanks Lindsay! :)

Jennifer Miller

THEY'RE GOING ON AN ADVENTURE!

Anonymous

After recently rewatching the movies and all the extras... This was everything I hoped it would be. The ending part especially moved me. Thank you ❤

Anonymous

Where Lord of the Rings felt organic, The Hobbit feels artificial. Far less location work, more fake CG orcs, no more "Bigatures", artificially bloated scripts... No carefully prepared plan.

Anonymous

Wow, the part about Christopher Lee. That was quite powerful - perhaps what any actor feels in any role, but feels bittersweet in the context of the joy the original LOTR trilogy brought a generation of people. Thank you so much for your incisive and heartfelt commentary. Looking forward to part 2!

Imogen Geier

This, uh, might or might not make you feel old, but seeing you and Nella "reunited" for another film review honestly gave me a moment of such poignant childlike nostalgia it... it really matched what you'd been talking about, is what I'm saying.

Anonymous
>>11093251

not gonna lie, i teared up a little too. lindsay and nella bffs for LIFE

Anonymous

why would use THAT part of the score for the end of the video? NOW I'M CRYING AND IT'S NOT EVEN NOON YET

Anonymous

I've liked your critiques for many years now, but this is next level.

Joe G

Beautiful. THAT ENDING. Anyway, you're almost certainly going to get into it in Part 2, but that one exceptionally raw and honest behind-the-scenes featurette they posted online made me a lot more sympathetic to the pressures Jackson & crew were under. It doesn't make the movies magically good by any means but it does limit the amount of malice I can muster towards Jackson and these films.

Chelsea Monk

Amazing video. Can't wait for part 2. I remember feeling so disillusioned seeing the Hobbit films in the cinema, but I don't think it takes away from my enjoyment of the TLOTR trilogy. Though watching the extended cuts (which I used to love) I kinda was retroactively reminded of all the extraneous of the Hobbit movies.

Anonymous

I BEEN DREAMIN' I BEEN WAITIN'

Anonymous

ok. I gotta admit that ending got me. Like hard.

Anonymous

That ending, especially when the "Shire theme" entered, gave me chills. It's amazing how the same movie franchise can get it so right at one moment in time, and years later, produce such tepid swill.

A. James Dillon

Oh I am so excited to see this out!

Anonymous

Really well done. I'm one of those people that still defends the Sauron/Dol Goldur additions (the only additions that I do defend), but I cannot say you're not right about it, either.

Lindsay Nelson

Thank you SO much for putting a finger on what bugged me most about The Hobbit--the fact that it was trying to be Lord of the Rings. I read both The Hobbit and LotR for the first time as a twenty-something and felt like I was reading works by two different authors--The Hobbit was a light children's story that seemed to be constantly saying "Don't worry, there's scary stuff happening, but we know it'll be all right," while LotR was dark and epic and didn't reassure readers that things would turn out fine. The way the Hobbit films tried to turn a whimsical wink-wink fairy story into something EPIC AND DEEP just felt wrong from the beginning. (Also LOVED the ending of this video!)

Anonymous

Seeing excerpts from LotR and the Hobbit cut together makes it striking to me how shitty the cinematography is in the Hobbit. Like, compare and contrast - the delicate and subtle close ups with elegant chiaroscuro lighting vs awkward noncommittal medium shots with contrast and color sat pushed to the maxxxx just because, Compare the elegance of how some corners were cuts in terms of effects with carefully selected shots that have even more impact by not showing everything - like that great shot of the wraiths' swords rushing forth behind the owner of the prancing pony - to that sens of "wee we have the budget to shoot everything and move the camera in all directions so WE WILL DO THAT" with shots going in every direction in videogames control cam style, and showing nothing. I can't wait for part 2, that ending was powerful (though that 180° degree rule, man, that reverse shot threw me off)

Anonymous

You know, I saw the comments about Nella and the crying and still I got blindsided at the end. Lovely video and looking forward to part 2!

Anonymous

Amazing analysis as always! As an aside, I seem to remember reading that Go Set A Watchman was most likely published without Harper Lee’s informed consent. She had refuse to publish it (because it was essentially the first draught if Mockingbird) and when she was finally too frail to object, her agent/editor published it to cash in before her death. There’s some real controversy over this, as to whether Lee was taken advantage of.

Anonymous

Nella cameo!

Anonymous

Lindsay and Nella are going on an adventure!!! The meta, man, with all the channel awesome stuff doing down, I have been thinking about watching old NChick videos with my friends in college, and though the current crop of video essays are about a million times better then, the feeling of watching the Dark Nella Saga in a dorm room will never return. This was really interesting though, I haven't actually seen the Hobbit movies, and only watched LotR extended editions once in high school not quite 10 years ago. But I always appreciate the larger context you provide, and this makes me want to watch LotR again.

Anonymous

That ending was cute as shit

Anonymous

Wow, that moment where it looks like Galdalf is speaking the dialog from that peter jackson interview

Anonymous

Huh. How'd I miss this earlier

Anonymous

Okay so now I'm crying? I love the framing. I never got into LotR myself, but I have had similar arcs with Star Wars (episodes 7/8 have come close to recapturing how I felt when I originally came across the franchise) and Harry Potter (Cursed Child and Fantastic Beasts... not so much). I always wonder if it's fair or even possible to feel the same about a movie/book/fandom as an adult as I did-- I usually just go to Disneyland to recover at that point, so I hope New Zealand did it for you!

Anonymous

that was THE! SWEETEST! ENDING!! I cannot WAIT for part 2 and PROPS TO NELLA for dressing the part

Anonymous

A. Phenomenal 2. I feel like these Berenstain references are just there to torment me.

Anonymous

I'm not gonna lie, actually made me tear up. And I'm so happy Nella is here too! I love Nella!

Anonymous

I'm not crying, what are you talking about, I'm definitely not crying because I relate so strongly to wishing for movies to recapture the joy I felt watching movies when I was a kid. NOPE. DEFINITELY NOT CRYING. Also, yeah Nella!

Benedict Marko

What a great title for this video essay! :)

Anonymous

Squee!

Heartlessfang

2 parts? Aaaaahhh you spoil us <3

Anonymous

I love the hobbit movies as airplane movies. I don't notice the bad effects, the music is still pretty lovely, and if I fall asleep during them I don't feel sad about it. And they're crazy long and work well on those long flights, like flights to New Zealand.

Anonymous

That was phenomenal. Is it weird the ending made me a little misty-eyed?

Anonymous

Lindsay you are KILLING it! Your videos have been at such a high quality lately that I’m proud to be a supporter ☺️

ArthurCrane

That ending though. Sam is my favorite LotR character, and I can safely say we got a perfect Sam right there.

Heartlessfang

Also love seeing nella in your vids again. Reminds me of your adventures as the Nchick crew

Anonymous

My lil' history with the Hobbit films: I enjoyed The Unexpected Journey. I thought Desolation of Smaug was okay, though I understood people's grievances. As for Battle of the Five Armies, it was the first time a Middle Earth movie made me go "Can't wait for this to end" in a negative way

Anonymous

TEARS STREAAAM DOWN MYYYY FAAAACE

Anonymous

(not really but yeah.) HI NELLAAAAAA

Rork

Brilliant, as usual.

Anonymous

Omg, you two are adorable.

Anonymous

Neither Tolkien nor these films are examples of lean story economy. But that's kinda what works here. The sins of the films are close enough to the sins of the source material. There's so much whimsy in film one that even the tonal clash with Rings feels minimized to me. The movies only fail by the standards of legend,only straining when compared to the best cinema that I have ever seen. The real tragedy to me is knowing that allegory finally found Tolkien,despite all of his attempts to evade it. Politics finds us all,like the Eye of Sauron.

Anonymous

I recall seeing just how haggard Jackson looked during the making of the movie

Anonymous

Your structural analysis is the best I've seen.

Andrey Kurenkov

So excited for this! I have watched your original vids for LoTR at least 3 times now and have gotten many friends to watch. Love it.

J. MacGillivray

That ending is adorable and I love it! I can't wait for part 2.

Anonymous

NELLA!!! :D

Anonymous

Stone-giants or storm-giants?

Anonymous

I knew she was going to be in these videos but I still cheered upon seeing Nella again.

Anonymous

I was very dissapointed with these movies because I think they had an opportunity to do something really unusual Book to film translations almost always condense, but here was a film that would actually be longer to watch than to read the book. And they have a few moments, early in the first, and the riddle scene when the potential for that really unique pacing is sort of visible.

Alex Wright

Only saw one of the Hobbit movies and to see I didn't miss much. Still hadn't actually read the Hobbit which I must rectify. Looking forward to the New Zealand adventure and great to see Nella again.

Anonymous

Yay, Nella! Looking forward to these, I think I'm too close to the book to not see the film through a nerd rage lens. I have too many fond memories of reading the hobbit with my mum, and I liked the comedic tone a lot, so seeing it done so weirdly in the film, along with everything they cut is just so frustrating!

Anonymous

I had about the same emotional response to these movies. Usually a bad sequel will piss you off as a fan, but this one kinda sucks the fandom out of me. Having had a couple years to think about it I reckon the Hobbit would comfortably fit into a single 2,5 hour movie if you cut the Battle of Five Armies. Then it's a quest with a clear endpoint and a single climax. And you wouldn't need to interrupt Bilbo's adventure to give setups and plotlines to the White Council and the Elves and Bard and the CGI Orc family. Instead you could put all that stuff into a second movie. Make it an ensemble thing where these plots build up to and converge on the big battle. Even if that doesn't work at least you'd have a straight adaptation of the Hobbit in the first movie, instead of Shit Happening in Middle-earth vol. I-III.

Anonymous

Huh, watching this reminded me that there was a time when that scene of Bilbo fighting the spiders was my favorite thing ever. My mom read me The Hobbit when I was about 4 or 5 because I asked for a story with a dragon in it and that was the only one she knew of. Then she went on to read me The Lord of the Rings. It took literal years, and then my brother was born and she had to start over again from The Hobbit. I have to say, she was definitely drained on our second run through and we never made it to the end of Return of the King because she kept falling asleep at the end of every sentence. However, I'm still grateful that she was willing to try.

Kristian Høy Horsberg

(side note: As far as I recall there were some real questions about whether Harper Lee actually ever wanted "Go Set a Watchman" to ever be released, and she was almost certainly affected by dementia when it was published. So it doesn't seem entirely fair to place the blame squarely on her.) There's no main note.

August B Denys

I missed Nella soooooo much. I also find it interesting how you, in a way, took yourself out of the essay itself.

Anonymous

I LOVE THIS SO MUCH.

Anonymous

Wow, this was such a good episode! NELLA!! At her cutest! Way to bring my own nostalgia back in one fell swoop.

Anonymous

When I saw Nella, I literally cried aloud, "Oh my God, Nella's back!!!" I can't wait to see the next episode! (Note: I fugue Nella hasn't really left. She's probably still helping writing and stuff, but she's back on screen! :D)

Anonymous

This is the best thing. Thank you so much.

Anonymous

I did it; I googled Sauron Melkor Fan art. I had no idea Sauron was so... pretty?

Anonymous

Seeing the second Hobbit film was the first time I felt like i'd really wasted my money buying a ticket at the cinema....I was bored out of my mind by the 2nd and 3rd (but like an eejit I still went to the 3rd one?) also YES NELLA

Anonymous

Beautiful

Zane

aw yay! seeing nella again brought a smile to my face. great video!

Anonymous

Btw, did you end up going to weta workshop in NZ? I was there (I think I left NZ just before you arrived tbh) and Weta was one of the highlights, especially the thunderbirds tour

waywardlaser

That ending was perfect

Anonymous

D'awww!

Anonymous

This was so good! I also feel like I had the same reaction to Lord of the Rings trilogy as you did. I read the books for the first time as a freshman in high school, 9th grade, because I wanted to read before The Fellowship was released in theaters. I absolutely fell in love with the books, and fell perhaps even more in love with the films and forgave them with the additions that you mentioned as well. I also own the extended editions and relished watched the making of and seeing the passion involved. I watched the Lord of the Rings films multiple times in theaters, and remember watching The Two Towers a crazy amount of six times in theaters - there is just something about Gandalf the White showing up at Helm's Deep and the accompanying music that just takes my breath away. Then The Hobbit films came and I was hesitant but excited. I enjoyed the dwarves singing in the first volume and tried to enjoy it, then the second one came with like Lindsey said, more unbelievable suspension of belief, and just watched the third out of a sense of obligation. It would have been interesting to see a Guillermo del Toro version, something totally different, especially because I love his creature films from Pan's Labyrinth to Hellboy to Shape of Water - I want to be in that Berenstein Bears universe. How lucky you got to go to New Zealand. I hope it was an amazing trip and I look forward to watching part two.

Anonymous

Nella!!!

Anonymous

That was great! Am I the only one who got a bit of a Plinkett Reviews vibe from this one?

Anonymous

Two things: 1.) I swear to God I could tell when I was first watching The Hobbit that Howard Shore just like ... gave up in some scenes. It was weird! Sometimes the music would stop and I would notice! These big gaps, like, "Eh, nothing's really happening? Soooo ...." And I so rarely notice music in films! 2.) Don't want to sound weird, but seeing Nella run up to you made me tear up? Haha. Um, I just heard from my high school best friend for the first time in AGES today, and it made me remember how important those old friends are in my life. I hope you and Nella had a lovely time.

Anonymous

Oh my god. I am SO embarrassed to tell you this, but I honestly cried a few tears when Nella was running through the airport. Like real, running down my cheeks tears, not just a lump in my throat. The musical theme has always been a tearjerker for me, I grew up with Lord of the Rings in a similar way you did (Viggo Mortensen was my first crush). And also seeing Nella again in one of your videos and the sillyness of the scene combined with the honesty of the scene before... it made my eyes leak.

Imogen Geier
>>11104482

There's also nothing wrong with To Set A Watchman. Personally, I'm glad that Harper Lee was willing to tear down the White Savior.

Anonymous

Hey Lindsey, who’s the artist for those boss remixes in this review?

Anonymous
>>11118335

I came here to ask the same thing! That music is so cool.

Anonymous

D: oh god seeing Nella made me SO happy! What is she up to nowdays?

Anonymous

Lindsay, what is your view of the Rankin/Bass version? I like it very much and always wanted it expanded.

Anonymous

Oh god, I also cried. Your ending was so sweet and heartfelt! As another creative who the LotR films were super formative for, The Hobbit films were one of the biggest disappointments to me in recent memory. As much as I wanted to see you tear into them, I'm so glad you brought up the things they did right and included that very sincere ending. Can't wait for part 2! (And then to inevitably watch the LotR again)

Anonymous

YAS TO THE CLIFFHANGER/ENDING!

Anonymous

Granted, I had been up for around 48 hours when this posted, but I still think it's significant that I teared up when you say FotR is so good it makes you angry. That and the anime Mushishi are in this "creatively formative" category where I can't casually enjoy them, I have to break them out (even the music) like some kind of very expensive fine wine or some kind of fancy face mask. As for that Silmarillion fandom: I can remember when my main source of fanart was *Elfwood* (first place I saw Jenny Dolfen's art) and it was a big deal to find folks who had read the Histories of Middle Earth-- dipped into tumblr fifteen years later and the kids are making memes of the appendices to the appendices. "Terrible Dad Feanor" and "Milker" might be my favorites <a href="http://cy-lindric.tumblr.com/post/133665589758/you-asked-for-it-you-filthy-elffuckers-there-you" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">by this artist</a> . As that post mentions, it's also interesting that a HUGE part of the tumblr Silmarillion fandom (including the Melkor/Sauron fans) is Russian. Last time I checked in, The Hobbit fandom (which exists) was a totally separate thing from the Tolkien book-fandom, with only Lee Pace's Thranduil as a bridge.

Haldon Lindstrom

Have fun in New Zealand! Looking forward to Part 2

Anonymous

I cried when Nella appeared. She is a national treasure.

Anonymous

This was an awesome video, seriously loved it so much. It was so great to see Nella too!

Anonymous

Nella showing up literally made me gasp with joy :D I missed you guys x