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Discipline: King Crimson - Behind the Score (Episode 18) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-05-01 03:29:09
Imported:
2023-05

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Join me for a trip down the Fripp rabbit hole as we dive into Discipline from King Crimson. This is one of the more dense scores I've seen in quite some time. It's mathematical treatment of meter is astounding. And, the sheer 'discipline' to perform this is off the charts.

Files

King Crimson: Discipline - Behind the Score (Episode 18)

This is "King Crimson: Discipline - Behind the Score (Episode 18)" by Doug Helvering on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

Comments

Chris Ramsbottom

Thanks Doug for this, fascinating I think is the word. When you think that they did play this live in front of audiences, just the 4 of them, for many years.... isn't it mindblowing? The last time it was played live was 7th December last year in Japan, their second to last ever gig - but that was the 7-piece KC. Having seen this, it's made me wonder how it was expanded between 7 players, who took which part...

doughelvering

Thanks for your kind words. I enjoyed this one! I've updated the video to correct my original typo.

Jean-Michel LaFontaine

My girlfriend plays bass and piano and the first time she saw those scores, she told me « how can normal human beings play this together and don't mess up ? ». I can read music a bit and used to play drums a bit and I remember trying to play some Bruford tunes was like « the achievment » for any drummer. I never was able to of course.. LOL Great episode!

Anonymous

I am grateful for this video and als for the comments listed here. I assume it is legally not possible to share the score, because otherwise you would have done so, right? Love from Germany, Juergen

Martin Broten

Great job, Doug. Gave me insight into something I’ve been listening to for 40 years. Just a bunch of fabulous musicians. I remember Bruford (one of my favorite musicians) saying that, even though a piece is in 17, as long as you maintain the “dance groove” (in this case the bass drum) you won’t lose the listener. Not surprising Dr. Bruford went on the get a PhD in music following his retirement.

Jeff Norman

The ideas in Randy's comment are perhaps WHY Fripp initially called this band "Discipline"...before realizing that it was, in fact, King Crimson (which he experiences as a certain kind of force or even entity within the music). I would imagine learning to play one's part in a piece like this is intensely focusing...weirdly, by completely opposite means, maybe arriving at a place similar to that meditation might bring one by *emptying* focus...

Anonymous

I read somewhere that Bill Bruford said drumming Discipline could be the most transcendent experience or worst nightmare.

ax o'lotl

that was really wonderful... thank you! never thought I'd see something like this... thoughtful coverage with a score of such an outlier of a piece. I was at the 2nd-to-last live concert by this incarnation of Crimson, at the Greek Theater in Berkeley in 1982. recordings of the show leave out a lot and don't do it justice. it opened with a Fripp soundscape, as usual, leading into Lark's Tongues pt 3, the intro to which was literally the first thing I learned on the electric guitar. this is a great example of a process piece where the score gives insight into what's going on, but the humans playing it thought of it in a completely different way. anyway, I'm hoping you continue to dig into Crimson in your EPL episodes... loved the one on Red. some of their more recent albums are really remarkable, e.g. The Construkction [sic] of Light, and The Power To Believe. to have gone through phases over half a century that included In The Court... to Lark's / Starless / Red... to Discipline / Beat / Three... to Vroom / Thrak... to Construkction / Power... and most recently the 7-piece band... they really are prog rock's Stravinsky. thanks for tackling what is frankly a pretty forbidding catalog. more power to you! :-)

grnmntl

Please do the Discipline album in extended play

Marc Volgers

I wish my notation software was able to notate polymetric stuff like that. I'm now working on notating Condemned by Confessor which is full of crazy stuff. There's a part where the guitars are playing a pattern like this: 13/8 + 9/8 (not compound 3x3) + 13/8 + 11/8 (2x). The drums on the other hand play a 3/4 in triplets for 8 bars and 4/4 in triplets for 5 bars and one bar of 2/4. I first wanted to notate the drums in the same time signature, but since it's all 8th note triplets I got in trouble when meters shifted and bars are all odd numbers (9,11,13). So I had to notate it in 3/4 and 4/4. In text I just wrote above the guitar part the time signatures. Would be even more nifty if I had the 13/8 etc. bars for the guitar parts and the 3/4 / 4/4 bars for the drums like this.