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Sacred Symbols, Episode 272 | The Unanimity of the Unity (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-15 16:00:09
Edited:
2023-09-18 16:54:14
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Content

A State of Play stream was announced right before this week's episode, so naturally we watched it, and our thoughts are within. Topics of interest from Sony's showing include release dates for Helldivers II and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, new PS5 and DualSense colors, an open beta for Foamstars, Resident Evil 4 Remake DLC, and more. However, all of that news is covered in a pickup, because we recorded a huge show for you without all of that. Have you heard what's going on with the popular engine Unity? You should familiarize yourself with the situation, because it's a fascinating one that best represents the strained nexus between creating games and paying for them. Plus: Roblox is finally coming to PlayStation, Square Enix is 'in trouble,' but not really, PS5 gets new firmware while fresh PS+ games come to the Extra and Premium tiers, and more. Then: Listener inquiries! Should Colin finally break down and play Skyrim? Are artists really more important than the suits that often oversee them? Have cinematic trailers gone too far? Will Dustin be kidnapped by the Yakuza in Japan, forcing a hefty cash payment? Join us for an unusually old-school episode of Sacred Symbols.


Timestamps:

0:00:00 - Intro

0:17:53 - Did Colin’s optimism cause Aaron Rodgers to get injured?

0:53:35 - We heard you, Christopher

0:57:36 - Fat, meaty, and cavernous

1:00:44 - Is Colin talking faster?

1:03:35 - Will we pay the ransom for Dustin?

1:04:20 - An advertising question

1:12:42 - Horizon: Forbidden West Complete Edition is coming to PC

1:18:35 - Death Stranding is coming to iPhone

1:27:56 - Embracer may be trying to sell Gearbox

1:31:20 - Tomb Raider 1-3 Remaster is coming to PlayStation

1:40:16 - Ubisoft opens up about XDefiant’s failed certification

1:42:44 - What have we been playing?

2:18:49 - State of Play recap

2:45:14 - Unity is coming untied

3:03:56 - Roblox is headed for PlayStation

3:09:15 - Square Enix is losing money, but not like that

3:18:44 - New PS5 firmware has arrived

3:22:31 - Sony has revealed new monthly PS+ offerings

3:25:06 - Immortals of Aveum’s studio has been slashed

3:34:05 - Will Colin ever play Skyrim or FF14?

3:43:22 - What do we think of cinematic trailers?

3:49:34 - Are we wrong about the labor strikes?

4:12:09 - Books, trophies, subscription services, and Seinfeld

4:21:58 - What games do we recommend for a newcomer to the ecosystem?

4:23:56 - Do we feel like we’re wasting time playing certain games?

Files

Comments

Vagicarp, I choose you

4 and a half hours? Fuck yeah. You boys are doing God's work. 👌

Mitch Orobko

No timestamps? 🥲

Zac Lebeau

Colin on every podcast ever: I'm a hardcore Jets fan. Football makes my life worth living for a couple months a year. I'm a Jets fan and we're self deprecating because we have to be we're so bad. J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS Colin on this podcast: I had no idea I was so associated with the Jets. 🤣🤣🤣

Dakota Brown

Did Colin just reference the band Funeral for a Friend in the very beginning? Damn that brings me back. Streetcar is an amazing song.

Trapgunner

I came into work the day after the jets game to hear one of my coworkers discussing Aaron Rodgers. 90 percent of what I know about sports is Collin discussing it on various podcasts. My immediate thought was “oh no Colin” I was gonna do a write in about it but noticed so many other write ins about it. Regardless my condolences. Also wtf Daryl is in Europe now? Is the walking Dead just gonna continue like the y’s series with Daryl washing up in random places?

Zeke the Plumber

When you take into account all the layers involved, the Rodgers injury is one of the more devastating turn of events I’ve seen recently. His acquisition turned the Jets into legit Super Bowl contenders overnight and for such a tortured fan base to lose that in 4 plays, I feel for ya

Jack Sibert

When ppl were using the term "retroactive"- they were talking about games that have been released PRIOR to January 1, 2024 and have surpassed $200,000 in revenue will still be subject to the new fees. So, a game that was released under entirely separate terms of service 3 years ago, will now be subject to the new fees for every download that occurs after January 2024. Imagine- youre a dev and your old Unity game has a viral moment in 2024 bc some famous streamer plays it. Out of nowhere you get 100,000 new downloads on your game that was otherwise dead. You're now saddled with fees that you could have never seen coming back when you were developing it.

Carlos

36 minutes of Jets talk and it might be some of the funniest, most sincere shit I’ve heard on this podcast. Loved every minute of it. Being a Chargers fan is hell, but being a Jets fan is “an unending torment” as George RR Martin likes to say.

Zeke the Plumber
>>117609755

Being a Chargers fan is next level hopelessness. Even when they had a stacked roster (the Schottenheimer/Turner years), they would run into Manning or Brady in the playoffs and come up short. Now, they have a great quarterback and a pretty solid roster but they’re in the same division as Mahomes. I also like Brandon Staley but for a defensive guru, his defense sure seems to get torched a lot. I’m not just talking about Miami, Miami is gonna torch a lot of people. Just in general

Carlos
>>117609755

Firing Schottenheimer will always hang over that franchise like a curse. If those wild rumors end up being true and Philip Rivers ends up on the Jets, I’m going to actually throw up.

Michael Mashpotato

Someone already made the Mexican mummified alien cake into a cake. I saw it on Twitter 😭

Joseph Gedgaudas

Chris thinks he’s the slowest talking person he knows? That’s wild.

Jeffery Carlson

Thank God someone else caught cumrunner. Thought I had imagined it lol

SeanG123

Starfields review scores are 150% because of where it didn’t launch. Flaws aren’t looked at as creative decisions with this one 😂💯 A demonstrable improvement over Fallout 4 in every conceivable way. 7/10 Uhmazin

Avery Abrams

Chris truly thinks he’s a slow talker???

Angel DeJesus

I wonder if Colin seen the gross draft kings 9/11 parlay? Don't have a problem with the advertising, just curious.

Jordan

Is it about time to bring on a Roblox expert/enthusiast to explain this mystery to all of us?

Michael Thew
>>117604429

Ever listen to the gym class heroes? They got a cool song called taxi driver, they make a song with a ton of bands names in it, those 2 bands being mentioned.

Matt Wiles

The Xbox controller really is too clicky and loud 😉 However, I also meant to get across that I generally don’t see any threat from Xbox. I can see why Sony often don’t bother with communication. The whole Xbox experience is sub par and the games don’t come close to the amount of quality Sony games.

Edwin Magana

I love our sweet baby boy Dustin. But this episode solidifies my opinion in that Dustin was great as a guest. This duo is just perfection. Great episode. And as a Bears fans, I feel your pain Col.

Dakota Brown
>>117604429

Gym class heroes was great back in the day. Cupid’s chokehold was my ringtone in high school!

Ryan Zimm

See, the Jets didn't acquire Aaron Rodgers organically....so....

The Devmeister

I fucking almost spit my beer out when Chris reacted to Colin saying “put cum in M&Ms” 😂

Asique Alam

Wait isn't there a Carl meme already?

Edwin Magana
>>117633273

I just meant in general. We were a 3-14 team last year. And the packers gave us a horrible gut punch last Sunday. Fields needs to start hitting those small NFL windows and getting rid of the ball in under 3 seconds. He holds onto it for such a looong time!

Zeke the Plumber
>>117633273

That’s a common problem with electric playmakers. Mahomes does this too (or rather, he used to, but he’s gotten better about it). When you can make magic happen, your instincts tell you not to throw it away or dump it off to the flats I’m not saying Fields is Mahomes. I’m just saying, he’s flashed pretty brightly a few times over the last couple years I don’t think Fields is the issue. Based on what I saw against Green Bay, you guys have coaching problems. I think Chicago has a quarterback, I don’t think Chicago has a great coaching staff (as a whole). In comparison, The Jets are good everywhere except quarterback, which is partly why the Rodgers injury hurts so much. I would take Fields over Zach Wilson no question. Not even a debate for me

Edwin Magana
>>117633273

Our coaching staff is abysmal. They strong armed Poles into choosing from 3 candidates he had nothing to do with. That’s where the problem really is. At the top. The McCaskey’s have been holding this Team hostage with their old school mindset and mom and pop business practices. Sell the team!!!!

Justspartan

This is Colin’s cannon event

Napoleon in Rags

There seems to be a lot of sports fan in the Last Stand community, myself included. I’m up for more sports talk even if the Dustin and Chris don’t know anything. - sad Minnesota Vikings fan

Xavier Gomez

I dont wanna be that guy but… i watched daryl dixon… and loved it.

NeO JD

He’s gonna say no but we all know going to Japan def made Dustin cut his hair. 😄

Mr someone

Colin, not sure if you've played it or not but I wholeheartedly recommend playing CoD Infinite Warfare's campaign, I have a feeling you'd really like it!

GameSimp

While the creatives are certainly important, so are the businesses that employ them. It’s a symbiotic relationship, one does not exist without the other. A CFO cannot write a script as well as a lead writer, but a lead writer has no clue how to prepare a 10Q each quarter. The argument that one is more important than the other simply ignores reality.

Maxx Lazos

Colin. Chad Pennington. Don’t disrespect the best Jets QB all time

Stewy108

Skyrim Spoilercast with Colin, Chris and Matty. Let's go!

Bobby Woods

A nice classic 2-man SS. Sometimes I miss when it was just Chris

Brannon H

David Lynch was the director that made the quote about watching a movie "on your fucking phone"

Romeo

I gotta say, I also bought a Series X recently and also think it feels cheap compared to PS5. Packaging was great, and it has nice features, like Dolby Atmos, and all that, but it doesnt feel as premium as PS5 in many ways. The controller is ok at best, and I will always quote Skill Up on that one when he said we got two new gen consoles, but only one new gen controller. Set up process was slow and made me download the Xbox app for no reason. It downloaded two patches for the controller, one after the other, and a console version which took forever. Its slow downloading stuff, contrary to my PS5. The UI is bad. It looks horrible, which in part may be because its not even 4k (or at least wasnt at launch). Also, some essential parts of it doesnt work. The Game Pass tab hasnt worked for me since I turned it on, and after going through forums with three year old posts of the same problem, I havent been able to fix it. The pin to home thing (or whatever its called) does nothing, and the refresh home option doesnt fix anything for me. The store is a crappy console version of the Windows app store. Im now convinced the only thing Xbox got going for them is Game Pass. Having to buy an Xbox to play Starfield is fucked up considering its the clearly the lesser console IMO. Quick resume is nice. I guess I can use it with the only five games from Game Pass I kinda like and havent played.

Josh Gamez

"Aaron Rodgers tearing his Achilles is the most traumatic injury in NFL history." Like a man didn't literally go into cardiac arrest on the field last December lol.

Rebel Reyes
>>117688116

Pure Pony drivel. I have both consoles and wouldn't say one feels less "premium" than the other.

Richard

I find it frustrating that the podcast has at no point addressed the macroeconomic argument for automation. Automation is always good for the economy because it frees up labour to work on and create the next big thing. The SS crew consistently make the luddite argument against automation. This argument is always put forward by those deeply invested in the culture of the sector being automated and it has consistently been proven as wrong for the last 200+ years. This time is no different. Sure there will be dip in creativity, quality, variety, but this will be dwarfed by the savings and the new inventions/sectors that will be created. The SS crew has not considered the opportunity cost of fighting automation.

Superhero Jagganath
>>117709722

Haha I think he meant "traumatic" in the sense of "damaging a franchise's chances to improve." To be fair, the Hamlin game kind of screwed the Bills out of the AFC #1 seed last year, but it's not like he went down and everyone said "Welp, the Bills are done," whereas I've definitely heard people say that about the Jets this year.

Josh Gamez
>>117709722

lmao no, I know what he (and even Adam Schefter when he Tweeted it) meant, but just in the grand scheme of things given what happened in the last MNF game that Buffalo played in, it feels pretty mundane. And if anything maybe Buffalo on Monday Night might be a low key curse now.

John Warner (edited)

Comment edits

2023-09-17 22:50:22 Why does this episode have the SS+ logo in the corner????
2023-09-17 20:26:25 Why does this episode have the SS+ logo in the corner????

Why does this episode have the SS+ logo in the corner????

Brandon Van Cleave

Love AI and if used correctly it can speed up and lower the cost of video game development exponentially. Assets being made instantly. Much more variety. How anyone could not get that is beyond me. The soulless argument is ridiculous as most human made content is already soulless.

Romeo
>>117688116

Quoting Skill Up and describing my first hand experience with it, and how the UI doesnt even work properly = Pony. Enjoy your copium I guess. And dont forget to change those AA batteries.

Dylan O'Brien

Colin, it appears you're trying to Wade Boggs our girl Aerith but she is very much alive and well at this point in the Final Fantasy VII story where Rebirth is picking up. You're insinuating she's dead by the time you leave Midgar but you know that's not true. She's with you all through Junon, Costa del Sol, the Gold Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, and Temple of the Ancients in the original.

Raymond keys

Lol Colin, I’m a Lions fan. I feel your pain.

Chris Adams

Colin's mind- Aaron's rodgers out for year = Micha leaving him at the alter

Tanner Lange

Lol,the guy saying the Xbox controller is loud and clucky obviously has a rare PS5 controller. All 6 or the PS5 controllers I've had are loud AF and my friends complain when I play Fortnite with them that it's to loud

Jimmy G (edited)

Comment edits

2023-09-18 22:30:17 AI will be the biggest explosion of creativity in human history. People are always afraid of these leaps — the mechanization of the Gutenberg press put illuminated manuscript artists out, photography put out landscape and portrait painters, same with silent films to theater, talkies to silent films, all the way up to Photoshop in the early 90s destroying graphic design. I was there, people thought that easy computer tools would ruin design because it was too easy to create things. All it did was sharpen creativity and allow more people to make stuff. With all of these new tools just a handful of people will be able to make the equivalent of a $100M on their own. It’s going to be freaky and incredible. Creators are going to have the tools to build entertainment that we can’t even conceive of today. I wish someone could go on SS+ to give this side. I think I’ve heard Jaffe with takes on it.
2023-09-18 19:54:42 AI will be the biggest explosion of creativity in human history. People are always afraid of these leaps — the mechanization of the Gutenberg press put illuminated manuscript artists out, photography put out landscape and portrait painters, same with silent films to theater, talkies to silent films, all the way up to Photoshop in the early 90s destroying graphic design. I was there, people thought that easy computer tools would ruin design because it was too easy to create things. All it did was sharpen creativity and allow more people to make stuff. With all of these new tools just a handful of people will be able to make the equivalent of a $100M film or game on their own. It’s going to be freaky and incredible. Creators are going to have the tools to build entertainment that we can’t even conceive of today. I wish someone could go on SS+ to give this side. I think I’ve heard Jaffe with takes on it.

AI will be the biggest explosion of creativity in human history. People are always afraid of these leaps — the mechanization of the Gutenberg press put illuminated manuscript artists out, photography put out landscape and portrait painters, same with silent films to theater, talkies to silent films, all the way up to Photoshop in the early 90s destroying graphic design. I was there, people thought that easy computer tools would ruin design because it was too easy to create things. All it did was sharpen creativity and allow more people to make stuff. With all of these new tools just a handful of people will be able to make the equivalent of a $100M film or game on their own. It’s going to be freaky and incredible. Creators are going to have the tools to build entertainment that we can’t even conceive of today. I wish someone could go on SS+ to give this side. I think I’ve heard Jaffe with takes on it.

Chris Adams

immortals of aveum should not have started at $70. It's a new ip from a new develper. I believe it should have been $50.

Josh Walker

24 minutes in and I'm lmao-ing all over my house. "It's like breaking up with a girlfriend." Couldn't have said it any better

Keith Golfer
>>117812670

I just got gifted a PS5 and have been playing Ghostwire Tokyo. It's actually hilarious how much noise the controller makes, sounds and feels like an earthquake is happening any time I do something.

Keith Golfer
>>117818928

Those technological improvements aren't really comparable imo, when you consider the philosophical implication of A.i *generation* it's a different ball game. A lot of people quote photography as an example and it's just not the same thing. There's a whole new conversation to be had considering the philosophical underpinnings of this new development.

Superhero Jagganath
>>117818928

I guess, man. But it feels like none of those previous tools had the ability to create something completely from scratch like modern AI tools do. The printing press couldn’t write you a story based on a few short words- you still had to write the story itself. Photography was a way to capture reality, not to create something from nothing. Stable diffusion can create pictures of people that look completely real and do not exist. It does the artistic thinking *for* you. Nothing else before that has really operated in that way to my knowledge.

Tanner Lange
>>117812670

I'm glad I'm not the only one that recognizes the problem! I love everything else about the controller besides that

Jimmy G
>>117818928

@Keith I totally agree that this warrants many conversations, and I hope some of them happen here on Sacred. I do think people are somewhat overplaying the “black box” case - the idea that a random fat cat executive prompts an AI with something like “make a 120 minute Marvel movie” and it spits out what it’s going to spit out and they make a billion dollars without paying anyone. The fact that anyone can do it will drive it’s value to nearly nothing. It'll be the Muzak of the 21st century. The really interesting creative work will be in the small teams of people finessing every aspect of the project, obsessing over every input and every piece of output until it exactly captures their vision. Just like any other creative expression.

Jimmy G
>>117818928

@Jagganath It’s hard to explain in retrospect because it’s just part of life today, but in many circles there really was an incredible amount of doom and gloom with the automation of graphic design. For example, the idea that a computer would automatically draw a perfect dropshadow around a complex shape for you with just the right amount of distance and shadow fall-off, and all you had to do was tell it to by clicking a checkbox, actually pissed people off. Before that, it was something a skilled artisan needed to do by hand with a physical air brush! I guess you could say that at least there was a person clicking the checkbox back then, but is that really so different from someone finessing an AI model or prompt to get exactly the kind of creative output they’re looking for? Creative skills evolve with the tools.

Bryant
>>117688116

Dualsense is overrated AF. Horrible controller for shooters.

Lawson72

It cracks me up people think Starfield is so undeniably amazing that if you disagree you are a fanboy. How dare anyone stand in the way of its majesty lol, it is perfect, I say perfect, if you give it anything less than a 9/10 you are a liar. After doing that first contact mission, I want to give it a 5/10.

Superhero Jagganath
>>117818928

That’s fair, but the scale is unquestionably different. I do graphic design and 3D modeling myself (mostly as a hobby, some occasional freelance work), and I think there’s great use cases for AI with thing like PBR textures. I’ve used stable diffusion to help enhance/tweak some of my graphic design projects as well. But to use AI to generate an entire image wholesale out of a few words feels like it’s on a different level altogether. I just can’t shake the feeling that something is being lost in the artistic process. This isn’t a perfect analogy, but it’s like having some sort of machine that makes really fancy fondant icing patterns for a cake that you made (i.e. using AI as an assistive tool for details), vs. a machine that creates an entire cake for you, start-to-finish, based on your description of what you want (i.e. the way a lot of people use stable diffusion). Maybe the cake tastes great—maybe even amazing—but did you, yourself, make that cake? Or did you just tell the machine to make the cake for you? I guess that’s more of a philosophical question than anything else, but something seems weird to me about calling yourself the baker in that case. You had the idea, but the machine did the hard work. It’s still a creative effort, but it feels unearned. Maybe I’m just not forward-thinking enough, though, who knows.

Greg Hommel

Thanks for responding to my questions boys, but you left out the part where I said I believe you SHOULD pay your creative staff as much as possible. The issue is this, or any union, holding a gun to the employer’s head in the form of a work stoppage to demand anything. Not that I don’t want creative employees to be paid. Not that I want AI to permeate art. It’s that how you or I feel about anything should not allow employees to stop working and employers to not be allowed to replace them. For Chris, if the work were more valuable, would the union be demanding concessions to block the usage of AI? Think McFly. Despite your misrepresentation of my point, the fact remains, a creative business can exist without any creative people, with terribly untalented creative people, with a constant revolving door of employees. It cannot exist without funding and organization. To end my attempt to correct your mistake I would like to say that I agree with everything you said in your diatribe except that the way we feel should be forced on anyone, in any way. One is not a capitalist if one believes that “fairness” should be forced on business. Fairness is a feeling that is subjective. You pay your creatives what you think they are worth and I should not be able to tell you to pay them more any more than I should be able to tell you to pay them less. Anything else is truly asinine.

Bryant
>>117669969

Chad Pennington taught me what a rotator cuff was

Animated

Early Japan release still happens with the Earth Defense Force Series... for the life of me I cannot find the US release date!

Daniel Schiffer

Dustin goes AWOL and somehow the episode is even longer. These fuckers are crazy and that's why I love them. P.s. as a data analyst that Jets summary comment was underrated AF. Nice one!