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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 265 | The Last of Us (HBO) Review Discussion and Spoilercast (Season 1, Episode 3) (Video) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-31 17:01:02
Edited:
2023-02-03 14:09:30
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The Last of Us (HBO) Review Discussion and Spoilercast (S1, E3) | Sacred Symbols+ Episode 265

Now we're cooking. Literally, actually, as Nick Offerman's rendition of Bill happens to be quite the gastronomist. Episode 3 of HBO's The Last of Us shows just how deep the game's world can mine the depths of human emotion. Scarcely featuring Joel and Ellie over its lengthy runtime, viewers are instead immersed in something we never see in the game itself, but bear witness to in great quantity here: The lives of Bill and his lover Frank. By taking serious (albeit welcome) liberties with the original plot, Episode 3 will have you reaching for the tissue box. (No, not like that, you pervert!) To talk about the show this week, Dagan and I (Colin) welcome Micah back into the fold, as well as The Washington Post's Gene Park. Get ready to cry.

Comments

KomakiKhaos

This episode was spectacular. It even made my fiancée cry who and as long as I have known her, this is the first time I seen her cry watching anything

RoughSlpr
>>100822560

Bill was already gay, all this did was expand on his and Frank's backstory. The main plot is unchanged

Agent Chodey Banks
>>100822560

Calling it "gay porn" when you never even see them have sex is such a self-report. Just say you don't like the gays and get it over with.

Josh Frazier
>>100822560

If you can't understand the thematic relevance this episode has to the story of the show, I strongly advise you to learn some media literacy, and as far as the "gay porn", wow. I cannot believe it is 2023 and people still clutch their pearls at seeing same sex love, it was actually incredibly tame for an HBO show, and as most fans know, Bill was gay in the game, so you're really just showing your prejudice here /: c'mon man.

Benjamin Schroeder
>>100822560

Sorry you had to see a nuanced and well-developed relationship between two adult men. That must have been super hard for you.

Josh Frazier

With this being the biggest deviation from the game so far, I have to say I still loved this episode so much, and it's a great example of using the tv format to tell stories you couldn't in the game, Offerman and Bartlett were incredible together. Even with Ellie and Joel on the backburner, what we got from them was great! I'm a bit sad that we didn't get to see Bill and Ellie bump heads like in the game, but the quality of the story told here is more than worth the tradeoff to me

Alex Cabrera

For me, I think this is in the top 5 best episodes of television ever. It's right up there with the penultimate episode of Breaking Bad among others for me.

Gaelan K

Nick Offerman's and Murray Bartlett's acting was phenomenal. The amount of emotion and story they can convey with just subtle body languages and facial cues (?). Their chemistry was beautiful. Simply amazing. Also, the song at the dinner table is called "On the Nature of Daylight" and its such a beautiful, heart wrenching song. Also used in the beginning of Arrival.

RoughSlpr

Glad you're watching The Leftovers, International Assasin in season 2 is some of the best Television out there

Benn Stuart

I'm surprised this whole episode wasn't Dagan trying to get Gene to spoil the rest of the series for him haha!

Walker Simmons

I've beaten the first Last Of Us at least 10 times so I welcome any changes made to the show. I don't wanna see the exact same scenes again and I enjoy being surprised by deviations they take. This episode was great but Bill standing in the middle of the street with the sniper was pretty silly he definitely would've built a sniping perch or some sort of cover to fight off raiders. Can't wait for the rest of the season and I'm interested what else they'll add/change

Michael Thew

Idk, I think people believe this episode was great for no more of a reason than because they were gay. If it was a man and a woman and the story was exactly the same, these same people would say it’s mediocre and the outcry that it is unnecessary and took away from the main characters would be front and center. Bill’s town was a great section of the game and it wasn’t because Bill and Frank are gay, it’s about losing hope and pushing loved ones away because of the horrible decisions everyone in this world makes. TLoU is hands down my favorite narrative ever to be in a game and I think the game is as close to perfect as a game can get. This show is not TLoU

Cun

Hey Colin I had the same thought regarding the lack of danger faced throughout all those years. But then it hit me - just because we only saw one example of Raiders showing up in the night doesn't mean that was the only time it happened! They likely fought off intruders many more times than that. At least it's possible, you know? We only saw them play piano together once, too, but I'm sure they got more use out of the thing. Also man, definitely take The White Lotus for a spin. I think you might love it!

B00ch
>>100822560

how do you define main plot? Getting Ellie to destination? If so, then you can change almost everything from game

John Hughes

Fuckin love Cumbies

Jayjayjavon

It would have been amazing to see Joel and Ellie maneuver through Bill’s traps while trying to avoid the infected, particularly the nail-biting moment when Joel hung upside down. A very suspenseful scene that I hope we get to see later on in the season. Regardless, this episode was extraordinary, and I’m loving all the creative changes made to keep it exciting for both fans of the game and newcomers alike.

robert j driscoll
>>100829676

Thank you for saying this. This is so obviously true, and I was feeling like I was alone in the world. A meandering 80 min cheesy oscar bait style movie of an episode which is plain boring. It's off tone, and pointless to the story. The fact is they stuck "the notebook" in the middle of joel and ellie's story but made it gay, and everyone is beside themselves, It's sooooo fucking stupid.

Matthew Cooper
>>100829676

Yeah, I somewhat agree with this. I kind of wonder, if Bill had never been gay and Frank had been a woman in the game, would this episode of the show existed? Like would "Bill and Frank" have been such a big deal and deserved an entire episode to tell their story? If it would have just been telling a heterosexual love story, I don't think it would have been given so much attention. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but that's my suspicion..

RoughSlpr
>>100829676

Well obviously the man/woman dynamic would be totally different in early 2000's America compared to the same sex. Those differences do make the story more interesting. Even Bill were straight and this story was told similarly it would be a good narrative to tell imo.

Hidari Shotaro

It was hilarious that they found a way to incorporate the game's endless empty drawer looting haha.

SnipaMasta
>>100822560

False. Bill is alive in the game to interact with Joel and Ellie on their quest.

Michael Thew
>>100829676

Pretty bigoted to say that because of one’s sexual orientation, that make them better than someone’s else just because of what they identify as. I’m sick and tired of this stupid game of points when we should all be working on the same side. If I was gay and got complemented on everything just for the fact that I was gay would make me sick. Is that all I am to you and all I’ll ever be to you, a gay man? I would want my merits to be judged on my achievements and personality because I am so much more than my sexuality.

robert j driscoll
>>100829676

Yeah, I remember having an open mind about brokeback mountain in 2005 before it was mandatory to fawn over anything gay or be summarily chastised for thought crimes of the highest order, and came away thinking it was so well acted, directed, edited, and told a interesting unique story. This episode was so off target by every metric and pandering to the point of parody and no one will say it. We are through the looking glass on this stuff.

Quinn

It’s been interesting/sad to see the rhetoric around this episode and some of the pretty clear homophobic sentiments. At the end of the day the episode was clearly about Bill being half himself and only becoming who he is truly meant to be when the world ends and he meets Frank. The lessons learned from that love are ultimately what open Joel’s heart up just enough to try again in protecting Ellie and a chance to make up for all the times he’s failed before. It also gives a well beloved character in Bill (and in many respects, Tess) an even deeper impact on the overall story because of those lessons he learned about himself and recognized in Joel. Much like the car missing the truck in the opening ep, we’re taking creative detours on the path to our known destination and I’m here for the ride baby.

NickBLeaveIt

There's a fan theory that Frank knew Bill might kill himself had Frank written an "I love you" suicide note, so he purposefully wrote an "I hate you" note so at least Bill would stay alive. There's a similar more positive interpretation of Part II's ending.

William Rudrum

I liked seeing the backstory to Bill but I think they should have had a falling out and transitioned to the games story arc. Killing them off before Joel and Ellie even arrives renders their story totally irrelevant to thr main plot. Joel could have just found an abandoned village with a abandoned basement bunker full of stuff he needed.

Hidari Shotaro

There was the obvious Jansport ad in the first episode, too. I hope Cheesecake Factory makes an appearance in season 2.

Kenneth thomas
>>100829676

It's interesting you bring that up because I had absolutely considered that same question, especially with all the back and forth about it I've seen on Twitter. But I have to say, I absolutely think it would have been just as good if it was a straight couple. I saw this as a story about two human beings, and their sexual orientation was not a factor whatsoever in how invested I was. And not only was it a beautiful story about people who figured out how to live a fulfilling life in this apocalypse, Bill's life story and his letter to Joel at the end are going to have a really significant impact by the end of the story, when Joel has to make THAT decision, considering his failures to protect people he loved so far, and Bill's final message to him being about how it's their purpose, to be someone's protector. In that regard I really don't get people saying it's completely irrelevant to the story or pointless. Could that have been conveyed without an 80 minute episode about side characters? Sure. But on the other hand, I was glued to every single moment. They had a story they thought was worth telling and I for one am glad they did.

Jorge Sosa

Anyone notice that Joel's shirt that he puts on at the end is Frank's. You can see Frank wearing it during the argument outside the house scene. I thought that was kinda neat.

OTTAPPS (edited)

Comment edits

2023-02-01 18:54:23 Terrific episode once again (both SS+ & TLOU). I've been watching with my wife (who doesn't know anything about the game other than i love it) and she absolutely did not trust Frank to start with. She was on edge the entire time during that initial meeting. I think she just assumes everyone is bad in this world so this was a nice left turn for her. Cracking stuff.
2023-02-01 17:39:56 Terrific episode once again (both SS+ & TLOU). I've been watching with my wife (who doesn't know anything about the game other than i love it) and she absolutely did not trust Frank to start with. She was on edge the entire time during that initial meeting. I think she just assumes everyone is bad in this world so this was a nice left turn for her. Cracking stuff.

Terrific episode once again (both SS+ & TLOU). I've been watching with my wife (who doesn't know anything about the game other than i love it) and she absolutely did not trust Frank to start with. She was on edge the entire time during that initial meeting. I think she just assumes everyone is bad in this world so this was a nice left turn for her. Cracking stuff.

Mike D

Had to look it up after you mentioned her accent slip- well spotted. The director is British.

Pyo

GENE PARK LET'S GO

Chris Suhre

Agreed with those who enjoyed the episode and this podcast. Really great insights all around. I think Dagan briefly touched on it but I really enjoyed how well this episode pulled off subversion and the various ways it did so. He mentioned the scene transition from Bill appearing to be be dead and the scene fading to black to then jump in time to reveal Frank is actually dying now and they are older. There are so many other clever examples of subversion that worked to keep the casual viewer and TLOU initiated on their toes. Truly brilliant work of art!

Michael Thew
>>100858376

How about you let someone else carry that cross your nailed to. You are a closed minded bigot that only sees color and race. You make me sick, your the homophobic one, your the one that can’t win an argument and then uses words like homophobic rhetoric to label those that disagree with you. You need to grow the fuck up and realize people have opinions and they hardly have to do with what one can’t change. This game is over, you are being listened to less and less and I’m sorry you have no self esteem or friends and you think that picking at low hanging fruit will get you those things, it won’t, it just makes you look petty

robert j driscoll
>>100858376

Wrong. Bill & Frank actually have a huge falling out and Bill discovers that Frank hung himself. He leaves a note stating things like "I couldn't live another day with you." "Overbearing asshole" "I hated you." etc. This teaches Joel the importance of not just surviving, but not pushing those around you away from you. It's also the turning point that makes him start to take Ellie more seriously, care about her, etc. He sees what happened to Bill and Frank; decides that's not going to be him.

Matthew Major

Amazing episode everyone. This show is fantastic and I am so glad we have it in our lives. Have a great week.

Michael Thew
>>100858376

Thank you, this show doesn’t hold a candle to the game. In the reviews of the OG game, things like Elle being gay, bill being gay, the two brothers being black, weren’t brought up. It’s not that they were not these things, it’s because it wasn’t important. What’s important was the amazing story all these people told. If the world ended, I’m pretty sure social issues wouldn’t really matter. But these shitty people make it a point to say, all this person is the color of their skin or what they are attracted to and the actual performance is secondary. And if you critical of the performance for any reason, your the bigot or homophone. Even though these people are the ones’ that can only see race or who they are attracted too, sorry but all you do is hurt your cause and are a bigot yourself.

Josh Tarpley

Yeah so this episode totally wrecked me. I've only ever cried at like 2-3 movies in my life, but this is the ONLY love story that has hit me like that. Looking forward to getting back to Joel/Ellie next week, but for the time being we were just given one of the best episodes of TV ever.

LastStandMedia
>>100858376

I tend to agree, actually. The reaction to The Last of Us seems to be riddled with a lot of... issues.

Max Davis

I wept ugly tears during this episode. It wasn't "a gay love story" it was a love story and it was one for the ages.

plzsendpie

Not to take away from this episode, but there's a YouTube clip called "The Last of Us brought to you by Fox News" . It's gold.

Michael Ferrari
>>100829676

Couldn't agree more. I disagree with the outrage that some people/places had with the episode, and I have ZERO problem with people being gay, but this was mediocre television at best. And it actually ruined Bill as a character. I said it in another post, he literally gets turned into Bella from Twilight. And boy was Bill lucky that during an apocalypse another gay guy happened to fall down his trap. Thank you for this post too. I feel like people are afraid to do anything but kiss this shows ass, acting like every episode is the next coming of Jesus. For the record, I didn't like episode one, and loved episode 2 and 4, so I definitely am not just looking to crap on the show, but this artificial love fest over it is insane.

Antonio Salviano

I started this show in the last couple of days, and unlike most media I watch thats of this level I was watching it by myself, which means without my wife as usual. I'm 36, and we have been together since the tender age of 18/17, and this last week has been a rather stressful patch in our journey. I got about halfway into this episode until I realized this show was more than a dalliance, and that it was something to experience together. I still haven't seen all of it, as she is working more to help out while Im in Med School, but I had to share this truly meaningful story of love with someone else. I didn't have much faith in Neil (sorry Colin-I know he's your friend, but from an outsider's perch it looked like the creator was pushed aside), but he is proving me dead wrong. Bravo!