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Sacred Symbols, Episode 41: The Great Accessibility Debate (Patreon)

Published:
2019-04-09 16:00:03
Imported:
2022-01

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Content

Over the last couple of weeks, a debate has raged within the gaming industry: Should games be easier? Should they be more accessible? And are those two things actually the same, or in some way, shape, or form different? On this episode, we take the time to drill down deep and get to the bottom of some lingering questions about game difficulty, disabled players, and the Games Are For Everyone philosophy. But no episode of Sacred Symbols would be complete without copious news and plenty of letters from the listeners. Borderlands 3 has a release date and couch co-op, the UK's Prince Harry thinks parents are helpless against their Fortnite-playing children, GameStop is hemorrhaging money, and much more, while fan inquires range on topics from Mega Man Battle Network and The Elder Scrolls VI to PlayStation Plus, PlayStation Now, and the dreaded PlayStation Store. Oh, and we gush about Phoenix Wright for a bit, too. Objection?! We think not.

Timestamps:

0:00:17 - Intro.
0:03:55 - Due to KnockBack recording, Episode 42 will be posted a day later than usual on Patreon.
0:04:39 - Is it acceptable to fart at a urinal?
0:07:13 - One listener has a Trophy confession.
0:08:02 - Per last week's episode: A couple of corrections.
0:10:05 - What do we make of Jason Schreier's BioWare exposé?
0:17:24 - What games are we playing?
0:25:12 - Borderlands 3 gets a release date, has couch co-op, etc.
0:27:15 - Prince Harry hates Fortnite, gamers, gaming, and you.
0:30:01 - SEGA speaks candidly about its decision to remove Japanese actor from Judgement.
0:32:09 - Square Enix has a studio leadership shakeup, losing two key pieces of talent.
0:33:41 - GameStop posts a nearly $700 million annual loss, the worst 12 months in company history.
0:40:09 - Super Meat Boy Forever delayed; studio refuses to crunch, citing wellness.
0:42:12 - It looks like the next Assassin's Creed game will revolve around Vikings.
0:42:45 - Rage 2 is getting some old-school cheat functionality.
0:44:46 - Sony has revealed PSN's top-downloaded games for March 2019.
0:45:54 - Minor game announcements and release date information.
0:47:31 - This week's new releases for PS4, PS Vita, and PSVR.
0:53:02 - One listener asks us to delve into the "Easy Mode Debate" that's currently raging.
1:02:31 - How do we feel about in-game ads, whether for other games, DLC, or products?
1:04:41 - What do we think of the Mega Man Battle Network series?
1:06:17 - Why doesn't the PlayStation Store work consistently for so many gamers?
1:08:51 - The Elder Scrolls VI will launch at least a decade after Skyrim. Is that crazy?
1:10:37 - What's with publishers dropping game prices so quickly, screwing early adopters?
1:13:39 - Is it time for Sony to make PlayStation Plus and PlayStation Now into a single service?
1:16:43 - What's with Sony's lack of support for digital 4K content on PS4?
1:21:26 - Outro.

Files

Comments

Kenneth Oms

Sacred Symbols a "ripping ass more times at the urinal then you can count," podcast. It has a nice ring to it and also very concerning when you read it out of context lol.

Anonymous

Thank you for picking my question right at the beginning :) I appreciate that you took the time to discuss this issue, and I agree with your points of view, keep up the great work, guys!

WalknTalknStvnHawkn

Division 2 is definitely GOTY right now. I can't put this game down once I start. I tend to stay up until 3 AM at times. It's a very satisfying game!

Justin Marxer

Listening to the new episode right now and man I gotta say, I truly appreciate the commentary on parenting. My best friend and I used to check out horror movies in Redwood City and not once did we attend a show where there wasn't a baby screaming in the audience. It of course stemmed into a discussion how younger parents think either the newest movie or Call of Duty is a suitable baby-sitter or replacement for parenting. With that said, using media as the scapegoat for the problems of the youth is ironically funny coming from a dude who used to go to parties in college dressed up as a Wafen SS....

Brett Gomolka

Colin the farts at the urinal are not acceptable, next your going to say that its okay to drop your pants at the urinal too, something that i have witnessed by a non child. I like Chris's rule of thumb if you have to ask its a no.

WalknTalknStvnHawkn

I do find that I have to go to my network settings, disconnect then reconnect again to get into the PS Store. I didn't have this problem until I "upgraded" to the Pro and I now can't have a single session without having to do this.

Ryan Gorris

Gamestop is pure trash. Literally anytime I would go to buy a "new" game, it was always opened. Fuck that company and its shady tactics

Anonymous

Chris with the cut in at the beginning. It's good to know that we can still have fun and then get down to business.

four24twenty

Kremit be on those dank Yharnam nugs...

Anonymous

I might be a part of the trophy problem but I just discovered I earned almost $30 towards my PSN account. Sony rewards gives you points for the trophies you earn. 10 platinums equal 1000 points, 25 golds equal 250 points, 100 silver equals 100 points. $10 PSN credit is given for 1000 points. It only counts the trophies you earn after you sign up though. So my shameful platinum trophies at least gave me money that I can spend on an actual good game.

Marc Boggio

Speaking from my experience as a disabled person who used VR gaming to help train my use of a prosthetic leg, the “make the games easier for the poor cripples” argument really bothers me. I completely agree with things like the adaptive controller being a fantastic thing - artificial hardware which can interface with our human hardware is great, but making the argument that every game needs an easy mode so that the disabled can complete it, sounds more like a disingenuous excuse made by (likely able bodied) people, who feel entitled to success, regardless of how much effort they’re going to put into something. FromSoft games are hard. It’s their thing and that’s okay. Not all games need to be for all people.

Toren R. (KESA)

I just feel like the calls to make games easier just come off as largely disingenuous. No one owes you seeing then end of any game. and if you're that focused on hitting credits, then just watch it on youtube. Imagine if they watered down OG mega-man to just undo any of the difficulty that may keep new comers out? I mean, when is "easy" easy enough? Also, can't the argument be made that challenge is part of the artist vision of those games, and that by altering that, you're fundamentally changing the artist intent? if the creators of a game WANT to add an easy more, go for it, cool. but if they don't - really for any reason - then that should be be fine. it's OK to struggle at something. it's ok to be awful. Goal Setting, Developing, and overcoming is wayyyy more rewarding than just being handed something.

Toren R. (KESA)
>>21620275

Last time I went in there, it was to cancel a bunch of pre-orders I had accumulated over the years. like. 12 or so. the girl behind the counter almost started crying and asked me not to. then told me I couldn't. then after a quick back and forth, told me I could, but she would never cancel another for me ever again. I later learned that employees - at least then - were held to a daily quota of pre-orders and cancels worked against those. After that, I refused to ever, everrrr go back

Trent Miller

Hey there! Here’s a quick little story about my last GameStop experience. While I was in there I overheard a conversation that was happening between a customer and employee. The customer wasn’t satisfied with the price to buy a used console as it was about the same price to just buy a new one. As they went back and forth for a little bit the employee then said that she had a console that she had been trying to sell. Needless to say they exchanged information and she ended up selling her personal console. I thought it was completely bonkers.

Martha Silla

I appreciated your random comment about the counter attack in I Am Setsuna that you still don’t understand because I have played a few hours of that game and can not figure out what it means or how to use it. Frankly, I have not done a whole lot of reading on it because I didn’t really care to! 😁

Anonymous

I’ve bought 4K UHD movies from Vudu on my ps4 pro. You can watch Amazon shows that have been released in 4K uhd on PS4 pro. These options only show up when using a PS4 that is connected to a tv that is capable of displaying 4K video.

Michal Dudic

What bothers me about the Sekiro and difficulty narrative is that some games media types actually seem to be using disabled people as a shield for their own insecurity or unwillingness to commit to a video game. I don't really buy the whole gatekeeping narrative either. People who like Souls games REALLY fucking love Souls games and a huge portion of them spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in them. They don't want other people to not enjoy them, they just don't want to see yet another series that's dear to them destroyed by homogenization when there is more to play for anyone and everyone than ever. If they ever appear overeager in their defense, it's because they got burnt too many times. It's just another excuse for games media to jump down their readers' throats. These people don't play games, and they don't like games. Not really.

Brett Carlson

Colin we all know this Sekiro issue is far beyond what it started as. In typical games media fashion it is now a debate about disabled gamers and accessibility. A one-sided debate mind you, because no one ever once mentioned those topics when we reacted to the "Easy Mode" article. This is really a fascinating character study of the purified echo chamber that is the gaming industry, particularlly the media. Easy Mode and accessibility are two wildly different things. Accessibility is the Special Olympics. Easy Mode is lowering the bar of the NBA so it can reach the lowest common denominator. Give me a fucking break. Just because you spend 60 bucks on a game does not mean you are entitled to beating it. How many years have they been making these games? And now all of a sudden it's a hot topic issue. FromSoftware games ARE NOT HARD. They are literally designed to make you better as you learn. That's why they are so beautiful. They teach you, and halfway through the game you are destroying all enemies and feeling like you have achieved something special. You CAN NOT TAKE THAT FROM PEOPLE. In any walk of life you can not dumb things down so the you reach the lowest bar. That's a participation trophy. If Sekiro was easy mode you could literally beat it in 2 hours first playthrough. People are already speed running in 36 minutes. This is game journalist who are the most casual of gamers complaining they dont have the time to "git gud" because they have to devour content ASAP so they can hop on the next popular culture train. That's why we love you Colin. You will let a game age for a year and give it it's just due when you have the time. It's a damm shame this is what gaming culture has turned into.

Philip Andersen

When I was a teen, I never minded hard games, really I enjoyed the challenge. These days, I just want to enjoy the games which makes me only buy From software games when it's on a huge sale because it's very likely I'll stop playing when I hit a hard wall and lack excitement to pick it up again compared to move on to another game.

Phillip Guglielmo

"I've ripped ass at urinals more times than I can count." This is a man who understands his audience.

Steve

Love when Chris busts your balls. Someone needs to keep this Colin ego in check. Wow colin you called out anthem for being shit. Thanks for the hot take.........much love colin 😁

Brandon Soto

My biggest concern for PS5 is that Sony still won’t address PS3 backwards compatibility or downloaded games / PSOne classics in general. Just sucks that PS3 has been a thorn in Sony’s side for a long time, while original Xbox & 360 games are playable on Xbone.

Matt Matlock

Just wanted to drop a comment admitting my mistake. I questioned Chris as your cohost after the first episode because I questioned his gaming knowledge. I was absolutely wrong. He has great knowledge of genres that’s aren’t your forte, and he is getting more and more comfortable voicing his opinion. He’s killing it, and the rapport you two are developing is fantastic. Each episode gets better and I’m sure I am not the only one who notices. Cheers!

Tony Colton

Just chiming I on physical games. I just picked up Shantae Ultimate Day One Edition, Outlast Trinity, NiNo Kuni 2 and Dying Light The Following Enhanced Edition all for just €55 and all are brand new. The Dying Light I got is currently €59.99 on PSN so I don't see any value yet in abandoning physical copies of games

Dan Parsons

I was very tempted by the third party "Elite Dualshock 4" but if it wont work on PS5, how many games will I actually use it with? (Considering access to PC and Xbox One X for third parties where I can use the amazing XBox Elite Controller)

NeO JD

Chris with the opener 👀 I’m like Chris, I use the stall. Urinals never sat right with me. “Does the Lion fart at the urinal?” Lmao Been playing Borderlands GOTY myself and so far it’s ok. I miss the writing from 2 but I like how they added the minimap and shift keys. I like Red but I feel like Best Buy was always better than Circuit City. Last thing I got from Circuit City was Halo 3 from the Valley Stream location. I’ve had my base PS4 since Feb 2016 and the only issue I’ve had with it is the light bar is white instead of blue. I think one day the power went out and it had that your PS4 wasn’t turned off properly message, and it’s been white while turned on since but it works normally.

LastStandMedia
>>21620978

Okay, that's basically like slave labor, though, even with easy Platinums. Not really worth it!

LastStandMedia
>>21621237

It's a really weird argument, and it seems to be really one-sided. I've scarcely seen a non-industry person think that the conversation is all that coherent.

LastStandMedia
>>21622365

Yeah, it's a matter of intent. I deleted it while I was editing, because it was a bit rambly, but I made a point when we recorded this episode that it's basically akin to demanding access to anything in any language, or the base (or advanced) knowledge to understand, say, a trigonometry textbook. Someone can hand me the trig book. It's in English, it uses numbers and some symbols I recognize, it's completely accessible in theory. But I simply couldn't do anything that book asked me to do. It isn't for me. A bit of a crude comparison, but I think you get the idea.

LastStandMedia
>>21622567

It's clearly not all that important. I only learned it later on 'cause I needed to use it for Trophies.

LastStandMedia
>>21623062

Interesting. If you think of it (or want to), write into the show when I post Friday's thread for next week's episode, and I'll include your thoughts as a correction.

LastStandMedia
>>21626334

It's true, man, and it's a shame that the media machine churns in such a way that that's simply not possible at major outlets and other venues. Hell, when I was at IGN, it was hard for me to play the way I play now, which is why I'm so thrilled I can do whatever I want these days. Slow-burning a game is fun, and trying to find the right time to play something is all part of the enterprise. I haven't played Sekiro yet because I know it's a game I need to sit with and consume over consecutive time, and not jump between games. So it waits for a more appropriate time. I dunno. The whole conversation is broken. So I'm glad we can have reasonable discourse here, on this show and in this community.

LastStandMedia
>>21626479

I can understand that. Our time commitments change, as do our own skills, and -- as you said -- what we're looking for in a game to begin with.

LastStandMedia
>>21632801

I really hope they figure out a solution. I don't see why they couldn't emulate PS3 on PS5 with a little know-how.

LastStandMedia
>>21634285

Hey, thanks! That's very kind of you to say. I felt like some people were being pretty hard on Chris early on, but it was only in certain corners. He's come into his own and is doing a great job, and I'm glad that's shining through. Thanks again.

LastStandMedia
>>21639968

That's super cool. Very good deals! I expect the physical deals will just get better as digital becomes more and more prominent.

LastStandMedia
>>21641158

That's a good point: Who even knows what the controller situation is gonna be? Either way, I'm not buying a controller Sony doesn't make itself, endorsed or not.

Matthew Perry

Will all get to change are psn names tommorrow :-)

Lucas Gremista

People who put their pants all the way down at the urinal are bigger offenders than people who fart.

Andrew

There are tons and tons of games out there for every type of person and you know what? Souls type games aren't for everyone and some people just need to realize that. Or you know what? Practice practice practice at those games and you will be rewarded with beating the game.

John Lynch

Got a huge raging boner as soon as you mentioned Battle Network

John Lynch

Also, speaking in the connectivity issues. I was one of those ones who never had an Issue, but I got the pro right before god of war and I constantly get an issue where whenever I try to download updates I get a network error. The only fix is a reboot of the console. My sons PS4 slim has done this ever since he got it also

Jeremy Craves

I'm sure people love giving corrections to the podcast but I haven't seen it yet out of 50+ comments. Rage 2 cheats will have no affect on MP or co-op because it's single player. I also assumed until recently it had co-op or something but I can find articles from June confirming it. Doom was great because of it's campaign and I would have been happy to not deal with the updates for MP, so it doesn't hurt my chances of buying the game. I just hope people know what their getting.

B00ch

hey colin i'm one of those dorks over at the xbox community! lol i definitely agree with you that game difficultly and accessibility are being mixed up. whether it's that topic, or unionization i feel like the talk around all this in games media is so exaggerated. i don't really care what happens either way but it's annoying. if that makes sense.

LastStandMedia
>>21650385

That's kinda my point, too. There are so many fucking games. Why does every game have to be for you?

LastStandMedia
>>21658287

Rage 2 doesn't support co-op? That's my mistake, then. If you wanna submit your correction for the episode next week, make sure to do so in the thread on Friday!

LastStandMedia
>>21658755

It makes sense. As with everything these days, most people just talk through, around, and over each other.

Joey Wren

Just changed my PSN name!!!! Still have all of my platinums. Suck it( to whom it may concern)

Raymond keys

If you get a code to MK11 any chance you will consider giving it away?

LastStandMedia
>>21666305

No, that would break the embargo. I also doubt we're gonna get a code; we rarely get anything we don't ask for.

Anonymous

Colin and Chris Just a comment on your discussion about the PS4 Pro not being able to fully stream 4k Videos. The XBOX One S is fully capable of streaming 4k from all the services Vudu, Amazon, Netflix, as well as play 4k Blu-ray’s. If Sony’s competition is able to get this this to work on their lower tier model and Sony is not willing to invest the development time to fix this on their premier model then it makes me worried about what the PS 5 is going to bring. Just holding off common features to make your next iteration look better is a bad business practice. I love hearing your content and loved the Bloodborne Let’s Play. It’s exactly what I expected from the both of you. Keep up the good work Scott

Anonymous

Hey there! Listening to this week's show right now. Vue came up, and while not important, I thought I'd share my experience with it. I transferred over our TV service from a cable company to Vue , gosh, I guess a couple years ago at this point. With my wife and I and two young kids, for how we watch TV and what we get from the service, I have no complaints at all. It works well, and even the least expensive option more than covers the bases we need. The only thing we really lost in the transition that we used was the History channel. Not too shabby. All told, making the change initially saved me almost $100 a month. There was a shakeup at one point where we lost a bunch of Viacom stuff and the only real way that hurt us was losing Nickelodeon channels for the kids, but we still get Disney stuff so it could be worse. With all the behind the scenes money stuff, it seems Sony opted to not have to raise rates and just let the channels go. Long winded a bit, sorry about that, but Vue has been a solid service, at least for us. Thanks!

bk200jj

There's no way I'm closing my pee hole to hold in a fart. That ship sails once you let go of the muscles in your pants and the stream starts.

Brett Carlson

What up Colin. Got a very inside baseball question for you that you happened to mention in the episode. What do we make of Jedi Fallen Order from Respawn using Unreal Engine and the fact that Bioware had to use Frostbite ( I know they say they weren't forced, but c'mon)? Do we think that EA knew something quality wise early on in both dev cycles that made them allow Respawn to use the engine they desired? Seems very very odd that Bioware who has notoriously made steaming shit in the Frostbite engine couldn't use Unreal which is a way better engine for open world 3rd person video games but Respawn a studio with way less cache then Bioware could. Something is going on there.

Brett Carlson

Hey whoever wrote in with the 4K movie question about PS4 Pro I'll tell ya why they don't offer it digitally. It is because Sony still has a heavy investment in to DVDs sold at retail and they are really the only game in town with 4K Blu Ray. They own it. If they start offering digitally before the PS5 they will cut themselves off at the knees with 4K DVD sales.

LastStandMedia
>>21706958

It's concerning, but I think Chris' conclusion is right: That Sony is holding everything back to make the next machine look better.

LastStandMedia
>>21710133

No, this is great feedback. My major question is, what do they do about local network channels? 'Cause it would be so awesome if I could get CBS from Long Island and get the Jets games, thus saving hundreds on Sunday Ticket... LOL.

LastStandMedia
>>21728484

I think it's super interesting, but it reflects that, internally, they might have learned a lesson about forcing Frostbite onto projects that don't need it or can't use it. To me (along with all the information that has been revealed since you sent this message), this simply indicates that it's a more open-ended, quest-based game. Perhaps even third person.

LastStandMedia
>>21729242

That could be true, but it's still probably not the right answer, as Sony gets a rip of everything sold on PSN.

Brett Carlson
>>21728484

Just seems very strange especially from a buisness perspective. I always agree with your sentiments on the nature of Capatalism, but EA is clearly run by people who don't really understand gaming and instead understand buisness and cost-benefit analysis sort of like the current Sabermetrics revolution in baseball. That's why EA will always be viewed as peices of shit. It's so very obvious who they allow to actually create a game vs who they just let kick the game out the door because they have to make quota by the end of the fiscal quarter. I will never agree with this philosophy. You can make just as much; if not more profit, when you are viewed as a reliable merchant of quality goods. The actual population of gamers really despises EA. The only reason they survive is because they service the lowest common denominator which is usually the most abundant of demographics. It's a shame they let Bioware continue to bury itself when a publisher like Sony would do everything in its power to help make the game as good as possible before they either release the product or are forced to shutter the studio. This is why Sony has gained almost universal support this generation, because they curate the shit they fucking own. Just strange EA seemingly is oblivious to how there operation is viewed by almost everyone. I mean you can say oh but there games still make money. Yeah sure they sell a few million copies, but you have God damn Bioware and THE STAR WARS LICENSE. They could be selling 10 million copies if they put some effort.

Peter Mark

I think the problem with the Let's Plays is that the term has a kind of implied meaning. Because the two of you do play video games, seeing something title as a let's play tells me I'm going to see a healthy amount of game play. Also, I think a true let's play from (insert odd or vaguely homosexual titles) Colin and Chris would be really interesting to see. Other than that, I would just put let's play in quotations.

LastStandMedia
>>21747462

But making a character is playing the game. I understand what you're saying, but I don't find it an adequate answer, personally.

Mario Diosdado

Midnight sales at Gamestop is still a thing, they are at 9pm the day before release. Quite a few people still show up.

Mario Diosdado

What I do with the PSN store hanging is going into settings and do a "test connection" after it finishes the store works fine right away.

Peter Mark
>>21747462

Would you consider making a DND character playing DND? And I could say the same of yours. When you reviewed games did you put the character creator in with game play? I understand your point, and as a technicality I agree, but I've watched let's plays for a decade or so, this is the first one I've seen that was almost only creating a character.

Brett Carlson

This new PS5 info dump by Cerny is exactly as I predicted why Sony is staying strategically silent. They have a beast of a console they are gearing up for. All us tech nerds were extremely encourage by the supposed current PS5 Specs. Sony is doubling down on being the premier box to just play games. Services are still yet to be determined, but they seem to be squarely focused on creating a premium gaming experience.

Tyson Williams

Dangerous Driving is actually made by ex-criterion people who developed the Burnout games. And I love the BattleNetwork series and would love to play it on Switch and Vita. The sprite work is incredible and I find the world very charming and obviously of its time constantly obsessed with digital technology, that aspect is kinda corny but charming and nostalgic for me