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Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 7x18 || Discussion (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-11 18:30:00
Imported:
2023-03

Content

7x18: "Dirty Girls"

Next: Buffy 7x19 on Wed 3/15


OOOOO BOI! This is getting so crazyy, and I am hereeee for it!!!

I am sooo pumped to see what happens with this Caleb bitch. He gives me the heebie jeebies ugh *shivers*

But yeah we also get Faithhhhh AHHHH I AM SO EXCITEDDDD!! <3 a true icon back on the show <3


also omg not me forgetting willow being with one of the potentials 😭 why do they feel so much closer in age than xander and those potentials that were in his dreams lmaooo


hope yall enjoyyyy! :D

Files

Comments

HuntingSwan

The First doesn't want to kill Buffy unless it absolutely has to since her being alive is the reason it can end the slayer line once and for all, as revealed in episode 11. This is why the Ubervamp just left her underneath that collapsed wall in episode 10.

Koh_Kae

Countdown to the last 5 episodes of Buffy :'-(. Some interesting things back in the day when the show was also counting down to the end, after each episode ended, they would show previews for the next episode and Michelle Branch's "Goodbye to You" would play in the background and the narrator would say something cheesy like 'the show that broke all the rules is coming to an end' or something like that and it was just so bittersweet. For those curious, you can check out the episode promos on Youtube to experience what we did when the show aired.

Cameron Lapp

The implication is that Caleb was a prolific human serial killer before he was Chosen by the First - he's one of the most "human" villains, similar to Warren.

Cameron Lapp

Note that Caleb's "you're the one who sees" is an explicit reference to Xander's speeches about "seeing" Dawn &amp; Buffy this season. Part of why Xander gets extra screentime this episode is so there's a real possibility of him being killed by Caleb when he's grabbed: a "farewell to Xander" episode. We're close enough to the series finale that nobody's safe.

Ross Nolan

Alley: Xander having a romantic dream about the potentials is kinda creepy and sleazy am I right? Also Alley: Willow hooking up with a potential is adorable!

Cameron Ferguson

It's hilarious because when I first saw this episode when I was younger, even THEN I was like "SPIKE I'M SO SORRY! BUT I NEED FAITH AND BUFFY TOGETHER AS A COUPLE NOW!!!" Lol it just sucks because I'm sure if this came out now they would definitely end up together!

Tjbosslyfe

He the final boss of the Buffy series . He a religious guy on steroids with the strength of Glory . If not stronger .

lurker1316
>>103858301

If you like the Buffy and Faith dynamic, you'd probably enjoy She-Ra (2018) for a similar dynamic between two of its characters.

s
>>103858301

Doubt it since as far as we've seen Buffy has been shown to be straight

s
>>103857625

It wasn't romantic, it was sexual. Plus Kennedy is at least 19 and we know she's of age. There's no way all those girls in the dream were 18+

Steveo
>>103864541

How do you know this? He only talks to two of them and we don't know that they aren't.

Steven morgan
>>103857625

sounds like a lot of misandristic excuses to me, you can’t help a ruddy dream. It’s part of nature. But hey let’s punish men for being human, there are real creeps out there who don’t care about what’s right and wrong grow up

Patrick Armbruster
>>103857625

Nah, he's right. Xander _has_ that dream. It happens. There's no hint he's in concious control of that dream. The important thing is what he does about it when he wakes up. He gets back to being helpful. Nothing creepy about it. The question of Kennedy's age is much more of an issue, really.

Ron Fehr
>>103858301

I would hope not! Why do the two main girls have to end up together? There is such a thing as just being really good friends.

x_Rhi_x
>>103859707

Hes only that strong coz he combined his essence with the first

Elle Blank

You know, since it aired I have hated that scene so much. Thanks for this perspective. It's honestly the first time I've really contextualized it that way.

Kimmee

Kennedy is old for a potential. She talks about how it might even be too late for her to become a slayer. I believe she is supposed to be 18-19 years old and Willow is what, 21? Idk, that seems okay. Maybe because I grew up in a different time. That was pretty normal back then. So they make a point of how old Kennedy is, but they don't say that about any of the other potentials. The potentials as a general rule skew younger. They act closer to Dawn's age. So yeah the dream comes off weird and icky. Another thing is the girls came to the house for shelter and protection, and Xander is one of the people in charge, so creeping on the girls would be gross. Yeah, I know, it's not like he can control his dreams. I agree with that point. And yes, WIllow is also one of the people in charge, but again, Kennedy is older than the others and pursued Willow. It's not quite the same as creeping on younger girls who came to you for shelter. Not that I think Xander is doing that. He can't really control the stupid shit that comes up in his dreams. Blame it on Joss, really. Xander is his self-insert character, and it's a pretty unnecessary scene if you ask me.

Michael Matthews

With Caleb I would definitely say misogyny but not with Xander, misogyny is someone who hates women ,Xander is written out of character especially for his age and life experience, I wish Marti Noxon or David Fury wrote this episode they understand the character better than Drew

Ross Nolan
>>103920537

Dawn is 16 at this point (well... depending on your point of view she is also possibly either 'two' or 'infinite' years old.) Assuming the other potentials are younger (which I'm not sure follows - Kennedy is more confident than the other potentials but that doesn't make her more mature necessarily) we're talking a difference of maybe 2 years or so. I understand that the age of consent in California is 18, but the series already broke that law in Season Two when 17 year old Buffy had sex with two centuries plus Angel and no batted an eyelid, at least for that for part. I'm sorry but I just don't see 21 year old Xander having an embarrassing dream over 16-17 year olds that he has no intention of acting on as anything particularly gross or weird. And honestly yes I do think Willow's relationship with Kennedy is more shady even if Kennedy is (just about of age of consent); Willow is in an authority and mentor position in the household, where as you say the potentials have come for sanctuary and training and it is a little creepy with the power dynamics. I wonder how the other Potentials feel about Kennedy doing the tongue kiss with Buffy's best friend, especially since Kennedy seems to have a bit of reflected status in Revello Drive. Now I don't think Willow and Kennedy are doing anything wrong but I do have to raise an eyebrow at Xander getting so much heat for a frigging dream while Willow and Kennedy earn only squees. Again I don't think either of them deserve heat but if Xander has earned shade in his direction Willow has too.

Calvin Allen

After all these years and I am just catching on to Buffy asking about Faith being in Angel's mind. The one place Buffy couldn't go when she wanted to see if he was still thinking about Faith back in season 3. I love this show

Anonymous
>>103932284

Oh my god, almost 20 years since the show ended and you just make realize this!! Buffy it´s the show that keeps on giving

tc3
>>103932284

I've always loved that moment. That entire scene is honestly pretty incredible, they managed to pack so much depth into a handful of lines, and in such an understated way. From their discussion of the Potentials “maybe they’ll do as good as us” - us of course being Buffy, a genuine hero, who still regularly struggles with her calling and the weight it puts on her and Faith who just broke out of prison where she was being held for murder - to Buffy avoiding eye contact when thanking Faith for being there and then changing the subject, to Buffy’s reaction when Faith says “Angel says ‘hi’” - what I wouldn’t have given for a cutaway to the image forming in Buffy’s head of Angel, possibly in full “Herb Saunders, Baltimore” mode, kindly and casually, telling Faith to “say ‘hi’ to Buffy for me”, it’s such an absurd line in the absolute best way possible - to that final moment you’re referring to when Buffy says “you were in Angel’s mind?” - if only Buffy could’ve been so lucky, at any point, during their relationship.

Rob

You have to love how even at s7e18 Alley still “did not expect that”. Another epic episode! What happened in this episode is another painful reminder that everyone is vulnerable. I remembered Nathan Fillion’s performance as a regular funny guy from Two guys, a girl, and a pizza place. But holy crap does he also make a great villain! I hated him at the end of this episode! 🤬 I never really paid much attention to the directors of Buffy except Joss, Marti, and Jane, but Drew Goddard is the man of the hour. It’s no wonder Daredevil turned out so great. The man knows his craft. Oh and the Vulcan scene…😆😆😆

Ron Fehr
>>103920537

I can vouch for that being the norm back then. My mother married very young.

Tim St. Croix
>>103857625

I'm disturbed by the fact that some people are disgusted that men have libidos.

Tim St. Croix

Copy/paste from an earlier comment: I'm disturbed by the fact that some people are disgusted that men have libidos.

Steven morgan
>>103857625

It’s kind of weird, I understand where it comes from, men have been Jack asses and creeps and a danger to women, but the idea that a man can control his subconscious thought is ridiculous. Someone literally put up vomit emojis at me for this message.

angelcakes
>>104061448

Maybe if men hadn't sullied everything related to sex and womens bodies for hundreds and hundreds of years, I could take a man seriously when he complains about a woman being vaguely disgusted by displays of men's very stereotypical and crass desires 🙂

Tim St. Croix

What you call 'stereotypical and crass desires' I call biology, a deep-seated instinct that exists for a reason, the continuation of the species.

Macca Fan

Is the thumbnail for this episode stuck in Xander's eye?

Esther Boogie
>>103857625

The problem is how Xander talks to/about women, constantly, even his own friends. He's tiresome, and seeing inside his dreams is predictably tiresome as well. They could have stopped the dream joke with the almost threesome conversation, but the showrunners chose to play a scene full of underage girls in underwear having a suggestive pillow fight. That was excessive and cringe worthy. It's consistent with the rest of the show's sexualization of women and consent issues. Notice how none of the male characters are in gratuitously sexual fantasy/love potion scenarios. BTW, I'm also not a fan of the Willow-Kennedy relationship. It's awkward and forced.

chelsea

i haven’t been commenting because obviously you finished the show a while ago but on the buffy/spike, spike/faith thing i must: buffy has two hands!