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Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 3x13 || Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2020-10-08 00:46:14
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link: https://ws.onehub.com/files/ipkmoxa2

3x13: "The Zeppo"

so we got a more Xander-centric episode this time and while objectively/technically it is really good, personally not a huuuuge fan of it, but you will see all my thoughts on it at the end.

pls dont kill me 🥴😭 i already feel like this is gonna be a favorite bc it is a hilarious episode.. i just got complex feelings bout ittttt

also feel like first time viewing of it will be different from rewatches, bc even while rewatching while editing, I seemed to like it a lot more since I knew the whole thing this episode was going for

but yeah, lots of shenanigans going on this episode haha

hope y'all enjoy! :D

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Comments

Ritchie

This isn’t one of my favorites, either. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that...I really just don’t like Xander haha

Joel S

YAASSS!!!! This is probably favorite Xander episode.

Thomas Hansen

You didn't like it? That's a bummer. It's one of my absolute favorites. I'd say it's a top10 for the entire show for me.

Christine

Every time I re-watch this episode, I like it more and more. It's a lot of fun :-)

Collinson

I love this episode! Love the switching of the traditional A, B storylines. The self parody with the over the top emotional scenes. Xander going from insecure to confident finally getting over Cordys insults. Interested to hear your thoughts even if you weren't the biggest fan. Also sad at the Xander hate from so many people. He’s the most human character in the show. He’s a teenage boy not in control of his emotions and fucks up on a regular basis this describes 99% of teenage boys. Sure it looks worse because it’s in a show about risking the end of the world but it’s still real and human. Not sure where all these people who were perfect teenagers came from but I never saw a single one growing up. Xander is the most realistic character in the show.

Chas Summers

Zeppo Marx was one of the WW2 era comedy troupe the Marx Brothers. Groucho was the most famous. Zeppo was the least important, most obscure member of the troupe.

Elisa H.

I think I liked it more on re-watching it then the first time since I spent less time going "what the hell is going on?" and trying to figure where it was all going lol

Allan Cornett

It’s better on rewatch because then you already know that it’s a satirical look at itself. There should be a warning at the beginning that the show is poking fun at itself . This episode is divisive among fans, but it is one of my favorites. I’m sad that you didn’t like it.

SpikesEcho

I agree that you will most likely develop an intense love of this episode with every rewatch....At this point for me, it's just pure genius gold 💓💓 but I don't remember thinking much of it the first time. Pretty sure no other show has done something like this, where the entire focus is on the B-plot, with the "typical" A-plot happening in the background. Not to mention the show is completely making fun of itself in the overly dramatic end-of-world plot. That Buffy/Angel scene is meant to purely be for laughs and not taken seriously, seeing their melodrama from an outsider's perspective. Plus, some nice character development for Xander, realizing he isn't the useless one of the group. He's got something to offer. Xander ranks *pretty* low for me...I don't think he even makes my favorites list. But this episode is so brilliant, and it's own special thing. Very bold, very creative Mutant Enemy! Keep on subverting those television tropes!

Quinn

ahhh I love this one. The way the show pokes fun at itself is great.

Erica Schaefer

Zeppo Marx was the youngest Marx brother, in case that hadn't been cleared up yet. Ostensibly extraneous to the big act of his older brothers, he nevertheless filled in capably when they needed someone and had other successes outside of comedy that were overshadowed by his older brothers. So...yeah. Xander. The Zeppo.

Ari is my Cat

Definitely an episode that is better on rewatch.

Allan Cornett

The episode where Xander saves the world...doesn’t tell or brag to anyone... priceless.

Ari is my Cat
>>45463055

Zeppo was so unimportant that when they replaced him with Gummo no one noticed. Harpo and Chico are also pretty well remembered.

Superfan Giovanni
>>45463184

This episode parodies Buffy better than anything else ever could, it's a loving but hilarious POV switch. It always makes me wonder if all of the Buffy events are interpreted this way by Xander. As the audience/Joss surogate/stand in Xander gets way too much hate, he's the heart of the show and I love how this episode is about him trying to find an identity, it's equally sad as it reveals how rudderless and lonely he truly is. Also "walker Texas ranger" "every ep!"

Samiah

Yeah this isn’t my favorite episode either. It’s fun but don’t think we need a whole episode to tell us that Xander is trying to snap out of his funk, see that he matters and then mature a little 😏.

ToySouljah

You are correct to assume this is a fan favorite and while the fans don’t typically like Xander himself they do love this episode because of the unique way it makes the audience view certain characters and relationships thru Xander’s eyes.

Dave Miller

Buffy is often about subverting tropes. This episode is about subverting (the show) Buffy.

Prue

Eh I get what they were going for, and they did it well, just wish it wasn't focused on Xander that's all. Cordelia would've been a better focus. I enjoyed the episode overall, but it isn't one of my favorites.

Chas Summers

Jimmy Olson was the photographer who followed Clark Kent around getting photos of Superman.

John Sturchio

For me I loved the Xander plot. I felt the Buffy/apocalypse subplot would have made for a very forgettable episode on it's own. I think the writers were trying to make those segments feel as generic as possible because this episode was basically the show parodying itself

Kiki Wunderwiggel

I’m also not a fan of this one, and I’ve rewatched the series many times. I think it’s partially because I just don’t get any enjoyment out of watching bullies like O’Toole and his gang of dead doofuses, even if they get their comeuppance in the end. I guess I’m a rare longtime Buffy re-watcher for whom this one never grew on. I get that it’s clever, but I still don’t enjoy it much. Maybe my mind will change with five more viewings!

Valkyrie

This is one of the more enjoyable filler episodes. Even though I am not a big Xander fan the parody of their own writing tropes used in Buffy is refreshingly funny. The juxtaposition between Xander's life falling into chaos and the Scoobies very serious saving the world mission is great. The dead seriousness of SMG acting just makes it so much more funny. I enjoy it when Joss and the writers room call themselves out on their own shit lmao. Mentioning my favourite girl Faith, she knew full well the world was ending and was just like "Damn I'm horny, I guess you will do :////" and bangs Xander before swiftly kicking him the fuck out. God I love her.

Loves Bitca

I think "The Zeppo" is a base breaker, though in a minor way. For those who don't know your tropes, a Base Breaker is an episode (or character) that pretty much splits the fans of the show. Some Love it, some hate it. Though it's not a major one, since it isn't a major episode to the show, but there is a split.

Fasda
>>45463296

It isn't heroism if you do it for your pride.

Miah

This one is much better on a second viewing. I've noticed a lot of people don't like this episode mainly because they don't like Xander. I completely understand that. He's my least favorite member of our main group and he can often be a very problematic character so stuff that focuses on him can be offputting for some. However, I think episode does wonders for his character growth. I've noticed on my many rewatches, that the Xander-centric episodes are some of my favorites, despite the fact that I like pretty much every other character more than him. Maybe because he's the one with the most room to grow? And he does seem to actually grow and can understand when he has screwed up (like with Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered). Sometimes, at least. I don't know. I love that he didn't tell the rest of the group what happened in the end. I love how he just shrugged off Cordy's insults at the end of the episode, compared to his reaction at the beginning. I love how they subverted the trope of the "the guy is the one who always immediately leaves after a one-night stand". I love how all the Buffy/Angel stuff is so over-the-top melodramatic because we're seeing how it must look through an outside's perspective, instead of from Buffy's. So yeah, I love this episode, but I think most people initially feel really weird about it on first viewing, and that's okay!

ToySouljah
>>45463384

And yes as pointed out the show is mocking itself. In particular its what the show looks like to a non Buffy fan who is channel surfing and happens upon a scene on the show, either a overly dramatic scene with Buffy and Angel or they happen upon a over the top cheesy monster of the week. We all know the show is more than that, but on a surface level this is what people see, what was shown on the Zeppo.

Lunar Darkling

Passion of the Nerd talks about who The Zeppo is in their analyses of this episode

ropecrewman36

"Different from rewatches"? Does this mean that you have plans for "rewatch reactions" in your future? Because I am so here for it, especially if you revisit one or two S1 episodes!

Superfan Giovanni

"just have to drop these off, then I would describe myself as EXPENDABLE!"

Fasda

Zeppo is one of the Marx Brothers... and no Karl is not one of them.

TheyCallMeJeff

This one is said to be inspired by the play Rosencratz and Guildenstern are Dead and as many have pointed out, story B becomes the focus. Moreover, when Xander is in the scene, we see everything from his point of view just like Rosencratz and Guildenstern. I think the episode is highly entertaining.

Yziel

I never liked this episode but I'm also not a big fan of Xander...

Allan Cornett
>>45463296

A hero doesn’t brag. Xander didn’t take the chance of being blown up by a bomb for pride .WTF

Jon Dub

I really like this episode, I love what it does, with moving the B plot to the forefront and downplaying what would normally be the A plot and relegating it to a side plot. It is definitely one that you enjoy more on rewatches though. Its my favourite Xander-centric episode of the whole series.

Superfan Giovanni

I love that the grossest dead buddy can't stop touching Xander

The Boozer

I just love the send up of what could be seen as a season finale world ending level type event and threat and that all just taking a backseat to Xander's smaller stakes shenanigans. It never fails to make me laugh and love the show for not taking itself super seriously at all times. Though too much of that can be a bad thing too but its done terrifically here imo. Even the Angel-Buffy bits are shown to be a bit comical when viewed from a certain outside POV, which obviously was deliberate given the great tongue in cheek acting and writing. Do think its by far Xander's finest hour and its mostly about him being a big fat nobody in the scheme of things but still being invaluable anyway.

Superfan Giovanni
>>45464573

The lines between Angel and Buffy are peak melodrama, if any other creative team made Buffy that's the show we'd be getting each week. I never noticed how Xander's first time mirrors Buffy's, they were both left alone and essentially abandoned. Vastly different circumstances and emotions but interesting nonetheless.

Brian Rayburn

I get it, your feelings about this episode. I went from disliking it to not knowing how to feel about it. Now I can appreciate it for what it was trying to do, though I doubt I will ever love it as much as others just because Xander was never one of my favorites. I do love how this episode pokes fun at itself, another apocalypse, the urgency. The music in the episode is almost its own character. It's actually the same music used in Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered from Season 2.

Valkyrie
>>45462935

to be fair sweet Alley just had an episode that made her take the show VERY seriously. Despite our collective love for the Zeppo I think the fact she isn't familiar with the tropes explains the confusion. I think once she realises that the show sometimes goes "Ok so we had a heavy episode now lets do something completely satirical and stupid." she will enjoy it more on rewatches.

Richard Moss

A) This one is about Xander gaining confidence in himself, which is underlined by his lack of need to explain his night to the group, or Cordelia. B) Every scene that doesn't feature Xander is a spoof of the show's normal tropes. So, it's very different, and on first watch, a jarring departure from the norm. But for many it becomes better with each re-watch. It probably has more jokes per minute than any other Buffy episode.

Nica Marie

And our main bully here is played by an alum of a little vampire show called Kindred the Embraced.

Collinson
>>45463963

I'd be up for that. Rewatching certain episodes to see second impressions.

Ross Nolan

'Zeppo' is a reference to Zeppo Marx who was the youngest of the Marx Brothers and largely regarded as superfluous (much like the way Jimmy Olsen is seen as Superman's powerless sidekick.) This episode also draws a lot from the film 'American Graffiti'' so it kind of helps if you know that flick. Also don't feel bad not liking it it - this is kind of a polarising episode. Personally as someone who likes and identifies with Xander I love it, but I guess if you don't love Xander it can be a bit of a grind.

Foamy

I felt a lot like you when I first watched this, but I didn't "get it" (not saying you didn't) But I did the second time I watched it. It just clicked. The doom/end of the world storyline being ignored is rather funny imo, and if you notice--it's nearly all played overdramatically and for laughs. One of the top 5 eps as far as originality goes. I'd never seen anything quite like it when it aired.

Ross Nolan
>>45462935

I love it too and yeah I had hoped she'd like it too, but I can also see why she didn't care for it. I do hope she likes it more rewatching it.

Patricia Cripps

As someone who hated Xander when I first watched the show, I can understand the feeling. It's been long enough since the first time I watched the show that I don't remember how I felt about this episode the first time through, but, trying to be vague with this to avoid spoilers, I think it's easier to like this episode after you see where Xander's character goes later in the show.

Daniel Stimson

This season is where they start to really get experimental with the format of the show.

Cole Crouse

I'm sad that this episode didn't click with you. I think it's superb. I know it's fairly common place now for TV shows to have Meta episodes, but Buffy was fairly experimental for it's time. I like that this is basically like what if we write an episode, but flip everything on its head? The comic relief side character is the hero and the main plot is now the side plot. It also shows the show distilled into its two parts Comedy and Tragedy. The Xander parts are pretty much completely played for humor and the other parts are purely dramatic then the episode turns about halfway through with Xander's story being dramatic and the drama part of the show being so over the top and melodramatic that it becomes comedic. I also believe that this episode has a ton of growth for Xander's character. Him not discussing what happened with the gang is showing this growth. He no longer needs to prove his value to the Scoobies (or Cordelia.) He's content with who he is now and more confident. He doesn't need to gloat. He literally saved the world (if the bomb had gone off then it would have killed Buffy and Co allowing the Hellmouth to open) and he doesn't need to tell anyone else about it. Anyway, you not being into it is cool, but I do think that this is one episode where the Meta-commentary and themes are a little deeper and more complex than they present themselves on a first watch. It's kind of like an episode of a TV show written for people who write TV shows.

Omar karimzada

Xander’s character is pure toxic, he never inputs anything useful.

The Boozer

Currently watching your reaction now and I am tickled immensely by how confused you are about what's happening in this episode and what it's going for. Even expecting another Teacher's Pet outcome maybe. This episode really played with expectations quite well now that I think about it. I can't think of an episode like it beforehand on the show so yeah, can be a bit like WTF.

Jon Dub

Regards the Faith/Xander thing. 1) Aint no Heterosexual 18 year old kid turning down Eliza Dushku. Just saying, and 2) Faith didnt really give him much choice lol

Ashtara Levin

First of all - you QOYD - Perrfect! I couldn't imagine myself a line from the last episode.. it all felt like a ball of hot emotions and you captured it! Secondly - I also am not a fan of Xender, but I absolutely LOVE this episode. I didn't register it either upon my first viewing of the series, but fall in love with it over time. This episode works so well comedically because of the entire show absolutely committing, body, mind and soul to the "Apocalypse" storyline. Everything from the lighting, the camera work, the dialogue.. and then, on the other hand, you have Xender, who in my opinion is usually a very obnoxious character, getting a chance to show us his importance to the group. If you notice, none of his attempts of "cool" are directed towards Buffy and the gang, but more towards Cordelia and Zombie Jack, who represent the outside world - He knows his place in the group, he provides the support, be it research, donuts or not adding pressure by telling them all that on top of a horrific monster they almost also got blown up last night - while still keeping with his immature nature (sleeping with Faith). I love this episode so much because it made me appreciate one of my least favorite characters in the show.

Val

I am also not a big fan of this ep, so no worries about it Alley. I like Xander, just didn't want to see another episode( which was not as good as BB&B,imo) featuring him. Some fun parts I got a kick out of like when the dead guy was hanging on Xander's car and then his head gets knocked off and X does that great scream! Oh and his car was cool too,

Ashtara Levin
>>45464096

Oh my goodness! that's the inspiration behind it? brilliant! I didn't know that, thank you! Joss surely loves Shakespeare...

Flora Smith
>>45466223

Ok going to push back here. Xander is thoughtlessly rash, selfish and hypocritical to be sure. He’s also fundamentally decent, UNBELIEVABLY brave, loyal and his two best friends are females who are both smarter and more powerful than him, a fact he’s fine with (that alone buys him quite a bit of credit with me). And though I sometimes want to hit him with heavy, heavy objects, he’s a good person who fucks up regularly. But he’s not ‘toxic’. In terms of him ‘never inputting anything useful’ uh, he saves Buffy’s life in Prophecy Girl, he saves the gangs lives by stopping the bomb in this episode to name but two extremely useful things he does.

Ashtara Levin

Anytime us "Fansplananing" the show's references to you getting annoying just say so...=P

Calvin Allen

I hate this episode. I don't like Xander and I hate that the show bends over backwards to tell us how great he is. He isn't.

ToySouljah
>>45466726

I mean what’d you expect when Xander is basically Whedon written into the show, and that man is as problematic as Xander is.

Ashtara Levin
>>45463639

Only on "Buffy" can an apocalyptic event episode be a "filler" episode XD

Richard Lucas
>>45466726

I also hate this episode, though not for Xander. I get what they were trying to do with the rest, but it just completely didn’t work for me.

KT
>>45463055

And Zeppo was specifically the non-comedic member of the group.

cheekyhobbit
>>45466726

It's not just me that hates this episode! Yay! It so often seems to make it onto people's top 10 lists and I don't get it. I have no time for Xander. I kinda like what they're doing with the "outsider during an apocalypse" storyline but I am not interested in Xander being a hero. I did have a wee crush on Channon Roe back in the day though

Flora Smith
>>45466327

IMO no heterosexual male, bisexual male, lesbian female, bisexual female, heterosexual female etc is turning down Eliza Dushku 🤣

cheekyhobbit
>>45466223

I wouldn't say he's "pure toxic" but he's not as heroic as the show makes him out to be. I liked him more when I originally watched than I do now, I think because I thought I was supposed to. I never really cared for him one way or the other, now I actively dislike him. Sure he does a few useful things, but IMO he gets worse as the show goes on. No details because spoilers.

cheekyhobbit
>>45466327

Not even sure you'd have to be heterosexual, she'd be hard to turn down no matter who you are ngl

cheekyhobbit
>>45462935

For me, Helpless is possibly one of my top 10 episodes. Definitely top 20. This is way down the list. Stop trying to make me like Xander, show. It's not going to happen. ;)

Allan Cornett
>>45466223

Flora great comment . The best thing about the characters on Buffy is that they are written as real people , who are far from perfect . That’s what makes Buffy seem so much like the real world. Buffy, Giles, Willow and Xander will do stupid things and make mistakes. That makes them like all of us.

cheekyhobbit
>>45463639

Faith is the GOAT. Possibly my favourite TV character of all time, to this day.

Prue
>>45466327

A heterosexual female would (don't know why you listed it there), as would a homosexual man (this reply is to Flora, not Jon).

Steveo

People either love this episode or tend to have the view you did. When I first saw it and even after a few rewatches I tended to side with you. Overtime I've grown to accept how it was shown to us and realize we only missed it out on some fighting of the hellmouth demon in the end. It still has some great comedic moments that are always worth rewatching.

Steveo
>>45466327

As a gay male I would not turn her down, probably the only woman I'd go straight for 🤣

Flora Smith
>>45466327

@Prue while I was pretty obviously indulging in a little hyperbole, as a heterosexual female who wouldn’t turn ED down I included it...but if the notion of ostensibly heterosexual females being susceptible to women as hot as Eliza offends you...whatever I stand by my comment

Steveo
>>45463296

Whereas Saint Willow bragged right away when she saw Xander, love Willow and all but she's definitely more often looked at as too perfect by many fans.

Bryce Carlson

Referring to Xander as "the Zeppo" is a harsh insult as it references the fourth Marx brother, who is usually overlooked even though he is in every movie with Groucho, Chico, and Harpo. However, that is because Zeppo is "the normal one" and as such the one that is absolutely necessary for the audience to fully appreciate the antics of his well-known brothers.

Ashtara Levin
>>45468612

He's not in their arguably most famous movie "A Night at the Opera"... (which makes this episode's name even more perfect in my opinion =P

escalator_dropdown

This is a polarizing episode (though it's more like/dislike than love/hate). Though there's no reason to apologize for your take -- even if it was the most beloved episode, your reaction is your reaction, y'know? I do feel like some element of peoples' reaction to this episode is just how long it can take to pick up on the self-aware, satirical tone. It plays it pretty subtle for maybe longer than it should have. If your interest was piqued by the ostensible Hellmouth A-plot early on, I totally get why you might be disappointed by the comedic turn it takes, even once you catch on and even if you enjoy/appreciate what they were going for. The thing about subverting expectations is that the subversion has to outperform the expectations, and while I really enjoy The Zeppo, it's not blow-the-roof-off brilliant. I think it does better in rewatches for that reason -- it plays better when you know what terms to take it on from the start -- but all your comments were totally valid!

CeNedra

Alley.. reaction spoiler 🙅🏻‍♀️🙈🙉🙊

Allan Cornett
>>45463373

The core of the episode is satirical . The best person for viewing what’s happening in that just happens to be Xander.

Alley Box
>>45463963

I most likely will once we get near the end. im already feeling nostalgic so I can totally see myself doing a rewatch later in the future

Kris Donovan

This is probably in my top 5 of favourite episodes from the whole show. Or at least top 10, honestly there's so many good episodes it's hard to pick. You've already had some brilliant ones, Passion, Dead Man's Party, Helpless to name just a few. Oh and can't forget Lover's Walk. I'm waiting eagerly to see the reactions to certain future episodes that i'm sure others are aware of.

Alley Box
>>45466191

yeah, I truly love what they were going for with everything, and like I said before: now that I KNOW this is what they were going for, I feel like I would enjoy it more if I rewatch it again. I just had last episode which was... SUPER intense and serious, I was still thinking we would go that route again, so I didn't have that "this is a fun comedic episode" in my head while starting it. I also personally don't care for Xander's character a whole lot so seeing him so much, I wasn't super into it. also the zombie gang I wasn't a fan of so those scenes weren't my favorite. but yeah, I do see what you're saying about his growth

Allan Cornett
>>45466726

We just have agree to disagree . How many teenage males would support females who are stronger, smarter and have powers.

Alley Box
>>45466677

haha not at all! usually I don't get a whole lot of them, so its helpful

Calvin Allen
>>45466726

Lots if they don't suck. Having low expectations for boys is why so many boys are awful. Tell them to be better and they will

Allan Cornett
>>45466726

Grown ass men, well many of them, won’t date or marry a woman who makes more money than them. It actually increases the divorce rate 33% when a woman makes more than a man.

kemperor .

It's cool if the episode doesn't hit with you. I personally really like it, but then Xander is one of my favorite characters. Based on all the Xander hate in the comments(not from you Alley) I get the impression you either love it or hate it based on your opinion of the character.

Calvin Allen
>>45466726

Your saying we should cut Xander slack because terrible people are terrible. Yes Xander is not a murderer or a rapist. Also yes Xander is awful

Steve Quast

This episode is great. It starts off a little slow, but the last ten minutes are a riot. A few moments I could do without (the girl who loves cars, Xander sleeping with Faith which, among other things, just seemed so random), but still solid overall. I like the fact that at the end even though Xander has shown himself to be useful to the group, he doesn't feel the need to brag about it, or even give voice to it at all.

Emma Ash

I definitely agree that this isn't one of my faves. There are very few episodes in the entire series where the central plot and themes can't be linked to Buffy in some way and this is one that just...doesn't work super well for me. I will say that I like this ep better on rewatch because once you've seen it all the way through you know what they're actually going for with all the non-Xander stuff in the ep - all the Scooby scenes where Xander isn't present or walks in on (like the Bangel scene) are cranked up SO high with the melodrama (Oz's dramatic timing with the howl lmao) because they're poking fun at themselves which is good but,,,,, the Xander stuff was genuinely so boring for me. Give me the caricature of the show we got in the non-Xander scenes any day over a Xander-centric plot sorryyyy.

BOO

the very fact that some people hate Xander makes me really appreciate him even more lmao, like being able to create such a polarizing character is really fun somehow

anoriori

I like this episode (even though Xander is not one of my faves either), but I wonder if it works better on a rewatch. I really like the idea that Xander is getting confronted by what he thinks masculinity is and realises that actually.. it kinda sucks. His idea of a cool, manly guy is one that's super aggressive, drives a cool car, isn't afraid of anything, cruises around at night with his guy friends drinking beer and not caring about consequences, and has no-strings-attached sex with a hot girl. But then he saves the day not by fighting, but by talking, to the point where it's anticlimatic. Maybe I can relate to times in my life when I've tried too hard to fit in with people that I think are cool, later realising that they're actually pretty dull, sad and mean. Plus I just like any episode that plays with your expectations of what an episode of buffy is supposed to be tbh.

Dove

I enjoy this episode more on rewatch. The main problem is ttoo, like you said, that the main storyline seems more interesting and I used to want to watch that instead. However, rewatching the episodes I don't feel that urge to get the other part anymore. My other problem was that I don't feel like Xander is ever left out of the main action like this episode tries to make it seem. He is always included and he has his share of times being a hero: he saved Buffy in the season 1 finale, he saved Giles in the season 2 finale and there are those times when his memories of being a soldier have helped.

Jeffrey

Anyone notice Owen walking away with his backpack, before Xander tries to catch the football?

Duke

STUPID COMMENT ALERT but I've begun to dab along with Alley Box in the intro, honestly not sure when it started

Bryce Carlson

I do think that your dissatisfaction with this episode is based on your dismissal of Xander as an important element of the ensemble so you may have missed that this episode is different from those previously seen. If I told you that this sets the stage for many important elements in the future I would get bashed for offering spoilers, though I am intentionally NOT giving spoilers. As in the past, I am encouraging you to pay a little more attention to things that you might feel are peripheral to the story you think you are watching.

FernWithy

I'm not a huge fan of this one either. I like it conceptually more than in execution. Though I never don't laugh at the over-dramatic Bangel-speak and the background music that stops when Xander shows up and then starts again when he leaves, and Buffy and Angel just looking at him, utterly confused at what could possibly be interrupting the tear-fest. So, I liked the skewering on the meta level of the show's own tropes, but yeah, I wish they'd picked a more interesting thing for Xander to be doing; the zombies were... whatever. Xander did finish his arc in understanding that he has worth, whether they recognize it or not.

Bryce Carlson

What you missed in the sequence with Xander and Faith is a deeper look into who Faith is. She fights, she gets horny, and since Xander is at hand, she uses him for her own pleasure and then shoves him out the door so that she can get a shower and get back to the fight. That scene is about Xander being used, and none of the other females in the ensemble (even Cordelia) would be so off-hand with him. Xander's story is the A-plot in this episode, while the impending apocalypse is the B-plot, effectively the "monster-of-the-week" you talk about being treated as comedic filler.

Becky Landis
>>45465393

As was Jeff Kober who was the vampire Buffy fought in “Helpless”. He was Daedalus on Kindred.

Devin Nease

Zeppo is the 4th Marx brother. The other 3 are all famous movie stars, and then Zeppo just... wasn't.

Cole Crouse
>>45466191

It's all good. I don't want you to think that I'm trying to force my opinion on you or try to tell you that you're wrong or anything like that. I just wanted to share why I like this episode. I understand the mindset thing coming from the last episode. Funnily enough, this episode and Helpless are two of my top five for this season.

CeNedra

I watched this episode when it first aired and liked it enough to not rewatch it for 20 years 😂 now I see it completely differently, I love it 🥰 but I know exactly where you’re coming from ❤️

Shawn Young

I get your comment that we have seen this with Xander plot before but for me what makes this different is that by the end of it he is so much more comfortable with himself and his role in the group which is not just as the normal guy. By the end he is so confident about his importance to the group he does feel the need to try to show anyone or that Cordelia's insults even faze him at all. In his mind he saved the world. After all with out him the bomb would have gone off. The gang might have had a hard time stopping the end of the world if the school blew up around them in the middle of it. No one really knows what would have happened if the bomb went off but it doesn't matter. In his mind Xander saved the world, and he didn't do it by helping buffy. He did it on his own. Doesn't matter that no one else knows. He does and no one can take that away from him. That is how I think he feels by the end of the episode which seems like a lot of growth for him which is why he is acting so differently by the end. I like this episode because its the one where normal Xander, Not the slayer or the witch, Saves the world. Plus only Xander and us the Audience know.

Sudden Real
>>45468612

*"A Night at the Opera". "A Night at the Oprah" sounds like a leaked *ahem* "documentary" featuring Oprah Winfrey.

Ari is my Cat

I feel like every season gets a wacky Xander episode. I don't like Xander because he comes across as overly jealous but for some reason I like the Xander episodes as funny little one off stories (probably more on rewatch than first time through).

Koz

Well, I love this one, by gum. (Not Gummo.) People have already covered Zeppo Marx and the whole concept of Xander having this adventure on the outskirts of a near-standard cataclysm life or death struggle to save the world, allowing the show to parody itself without becoming a parody of itself. So I guess there’s nothing to add. I gotta start making comments earlier.

Ashtara Levin
>>45468612

Hahaha LOL sorry! autocorrect has a mind of its own... =P Non the less, it was way too embarrassing to leave as it is...

ModernArtery .

For me this episode is less about "the Xander story", and more about the show parodying itself. As someone else mentioned, all the "main plot" scenes have the drama level cranked up to 11, and the fact that the show just gives us tiny little glimpses into these supposedly earth-shattering events is funny in the sense that the show is creating one of the most "serious" storylines to date, while not taking itself seriously at all in the process. To me that demonstrates a level of confidence from the show's creators, that they can take what might otherwise be a big, dramatic, "normal" story for the show and turn it into a joke. And it also kind of reinforces how extraordinary the characters are, that this apocalyptic battle is "just another week" for them, not even worthy of being the main focus of the episode. All that said, The Zeppo is obviously a departure from the show's typical formula, a one-off that subverts expectations for laughs. It's going to land differently for some viewers than for others. I look at it kind of the same way I look at the "Trickster" episodes from Supernatural. It changes the "rules" of the show temporarily, to do things that wouldn't necessarily work in a normal episode. And I do enjoy it, but I'm glad to get back to the "normal" episodes again afterwards.

Jeffrey

I'm in the "love this episode" camp, and I wasn't sure why, but The Passion of the Nerd really rocks this episode and makes me feel better about my love for this one. Alley won't watch it, but y'all should jump over there and enjoy.

Tim Pierce

I don't think anyone liked this episode upon first viewing. It really is an episode you have to watch more than once to appreciate it. Personally it's one of my favorite of the entire series.

Ashtara Levin
>>45468612

Hahaha LOL... sorry I have atrocious spelling when it comes to English so I use autocorrect, and sometimes it has a mind of its own... non the less, I had to correct it, way too embarrassing t leave as it is

Blain H Granado

Haha love your confusion with this episode. I personally think it's a masterpiece. The juxtaposition between something so trivial and something super dramatic is really awesome. Dan Vebber taking the piss out of the entire show is just the icing on the cake. Xander finding his self worth and battling with his masculine identity is basically the whole crux. Jack O'Toole is the perfect foil to Xander. He has a big knife, is overly aggressive, and leads a group. But in the end, Xander comes out ahead because he learns the value of quiet confidence. Even Faith conveys more masculine energy than Xander. Maybe this episode is just one penis metaphor? :p Anyway, there is so much going in this episode that it can be hard to grasp the first time. Still loved your reaction Alley!

Duke

Love the concept of us following our normal B plot storyline, and the writers satirizing themselves were my favorite parts of the episode. But I'm just not a fan of Xander, he epitomizes the "Nice Guy" trope a little too much for me, especially in the first 3, maybe, 4 seasons. Also the comedy, that wasn't coming from the writers making fun of their own show, didn't really hit for me, even on the couple of rewatches I've done of The Zeppo. The Zombie Gang's performances just seemed really off too, not in a funny self aware way either, so most of the episode falls flat for me. It's just not one I'll watch solo.

Rob

I’ve always loved this episode. Xander can be annoying at times but as guy who had plenty of insecurities growing up, I can relate. Insecurity is not sexy and overcoming it can be a real bitch. Xander is the hero of this episode. And he’s a hero for being part of the group. This was his episode. I find it ironic how you disappointedly say we’ve seen this before and yet the phrase “monster of the week” gets mentioned a lot. Fortunately there’s plenty more melodrama, comedy, and adventure to come!

Phoenix Dawn

I don't like Xander but I love this episode and how over the top B story, end of the world plotline is!

Dusty

I think Xander's character does grow. And not just from Faith. (heh heh) I mean, they bookend it. He calls himself spineless at the beginning, and then faces death head-on at the end. My problem? Buffy had a massive gash in her forehead a week ago! C'mon makeup people!

Elias Lundgren

Its about his self-confidence, not about his place in the group. I also agree that Xander would, had he had the time and opportunity to reflect, would not have had wanted to have sex with Faith. The reason he has not had sex with Buffy, Willow, or other people who has been interested, is because they have been controlled by magic and he understands that is wrong. The culture around him measures males worth in how many women they sleep with, and his confidence is at an all-time low. Also, he is attracted to Faith and it's not like he has learnt how to handle his attraction to people at all.

Shashank

I think of this episode as Xander trying to deal with his internalized toxic masculinity ideals that he fails to live up to. His insecurities about it has been a thread from Halloween to Go Fish. Lots of the characters make fun of him through a toxic/traditional gendered view: e.g. in go fish Cordelia says to him “Go ahead. Say it. You ran like a woman.” He’s been brave for the sake of others before but not when his masculinity or pride is challenged/insulted like in the opening scene with Jack O’Tool. He sees himself as not living up to traditional [toxic imo] ideals of masculinity and thus not being of value. Here he sees his kind of bravery can be greater/deeper then the representative of the toxic masculine kind [Jack O’Toole]. In the end he doesn’t feel the need to tell the others and brag because he didn’t do it to be cool like all the roles he tried to put on and failed at, he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do and he was willing to risk his life to save people he cared about.

Shashank

Some of my favorite reactions of yours are to episodes you didn’t like: bad eggs and go fish are golden, and your interest in the small b plot apocalypse here was fun :D

Elias Lundgren

I also like how we get the perspective of a man who sleeps with someone, just for them to change and treat them badly. Faith is Angel, Xander is naive and inexperienced and gets shit on. I feel bad for him, he is used and tossed, and believes he should be happy about it because of the bad culture around him.

Other Boy Reactions

I love that Xander didn’t tell the group that he played a big part in saving the world. He stopped everyone from being blown up and they didn’t even know it. And he realized that that was enough and that he didn’t need to prove anything to anyone and that is what “cool” is.

HuntingSwan

I had the same reaction when I first watched this episode, I was too dumb to get it. Now I think it's great but it took time to appreciate it. Maybe you'll feel that way too but even if you never like it, that's ok. My only gripe is that I felt at one point you were feeling the pressure to 'react' with your typical squeals of hilarity and it came across a little forced for me(when Willow shot Oz). I understand it's performative and that this episode wasn't giving you much to work with but that's ok! If you ain't feeling it, that's your reaction and we'll respect that, or people should if they're decent.

Richard Lucas
>>45463055

Gummo actually left first, before they did film work. Zeppo played the non-funny romantic guy, but in a comedy troup, who needs that? So he eventually left too.

Richard Lucas
>>45463661

100%. In not a fan of this one. But I let the fans have it. After all, I can’t figure out why anyone doesn’t love Gingerbread.

Richard Lucas

Just ran across this on YouTube. A guy doing an asmr as a season one Giles greeting you a new transfer student. Holy crap!! https://youtu.be/mwb0mIwA50E

Kelly Walker

I’m sure I’m not saying anything new here, but I’m going to say it anyway lol. As soon as I saw your comment that you didn’t like it so much, I was going to say that it gets so much better on rewatch, and then right after you speculate that it’d be better on rewatch. You are so observant in that regard. It’s definitely one that gets better each time. The first time you spend so much time being confused about the fact that there’s basically this whole episode going on in the background with all these snippets that just allude to major stuff going down. It doesn’t flow like you expect. Instead you get to go on the side quest. You see the Buffy storyline from an outsider perspective, just peaking in. You see random dramatic moments out of context in all their absurdity. But you do get Xander learning some quiet confidence in himself. And he doesn’t feel the need to tell them all what actually happened when they assume he was just home safe. I’m pretty sure this episode was forgettable to me initially, but it’s grown to be one of my favorites the more times I see it again. I’m not a huge Xander fan, but it’s one of my favorite Xander-focused episodes for sure.

Eric Haefele

The term "Zeppo" is lost on anyone unfamiliar with "The Marx Brothers". Groucho Marx was the most famous and hosted a game show on TV. The brothers made comedy movies, slapstick, in the black and white era of movie making. Groucho's humor was primarily "word play" humor. I think that there were 4 Marx Brothers. "Zeppo Marx" was a clown, he didn't talk he used an old fashioned horn with a bulb at the end to express himself. You squeeze the bulb and the horn honks. I had mixed feelings about this episode. Xander is my least favorite of the scoobies. So any episode centered around him, loses points with me. Plus it made me uncomfortable in several places. But it gave Xander a chance to overcome his fears like he did in "Nightmares" where he punched out his nightmare clown, and "Halloween" where he punched out his pirate/bully/nemesis. A couple of times you mentioned the Xander - Faith connection as though you gave Xander some responsibility for it. What I saw was a Xander somewhat in shock from his interactions with the dead guys and then the she-demon. Faith totally took control of the situation and made him her boy toy for a hot minute. Xander was just stunned by that turn of events.

Raven Dark

The more I rewatch this episode, the more I've grown to appreciate it, but the first time, I hated it. It just kind of....fell flat. The humor just didn't land for me, and Xander trying too hard was too cringe-worthy. It felt a little too forced. But I always did like the ending scenes. I like Xander sometimes, dislike him others, so it's not about whether I like him or not. It's not because I hate him. It's just that even now, when I've grown to appreciate the episode as a whole more, it's still really weak for me.

Raven Dark

I should have also added, the point of him not telling the others about what he did WAS growth. The whole episode, he was trying to figure out what he brings to the group, trying to be cool, and then at the end, he was so comfortable with himself, with who he is, that he didn't feel like he had to tell everyone about this big thing that he did in order to look cool. The point was, at the end, he was comfortable enough with himself to just be the "hero" without proving it or talking it up. Which, as the show was trying to say, IS the essence of cool. I don't love this episode, but that was the one part that I did get, and did like.

Stewart Denew

Only in Buffy would the world-ending event become the B-plot & used to add farcical elements to the main plot...

David Neal

I have re-watched the series several times, and I never know when I get to this episode if I'm going to like it this time or not. Only one that regularly moves up and down on how well I like it.

zerofk

I'm ambivalent about this one. On the one hand I love how Xander finally finds his cool. On the other I don't like that everyone suddenly treats him as if he's the weakest of the bunch. Before this he was just one of the gang, now he's the one that should be "fray-adjacent"?

BeckettBaladas

The fact that Xander DIDN'T tell the group is the point, it's showing how much he grew in the episode. This one was all about him gaining some confidence/self-esteem and at the end of the episode he has got enough of it that he doesn't need anyone to know about it - he doesn't need validation from the group since the events of that night gave him all the confidence/self-esteem he was strugling to find in the first part of the episode. That means he can let the group think he wasn't doing anything and can let Cordy just keep talking, because after that night HE knows better and that's enough.

Jamie Morgan

Aw, man, going in to this knowing you didn't like it so much is hurting my heart, WHY DID I READ THE BLURB!!! This is in my top 5, easily, anything that subverts expectation is just *chef's kiss* for me. Plus, I had a meet-and-greet thing with Nicky Brandon himself, and this was one of the two Buffy episodes we watched with him. I wish I could remember ANY of the insight he gave for this episode, but I was buzzing so hard nothing really sank in! Oh well, even when you don't like an episode you usually have really interesting reasons, so I'm still excited to watch.

Ceara Abrahamsz

Dude. We have never had a Xander focused episode told through his eyes. What made this episode great is the fact that it wasn’t a ‘apocalypse’ episode. Something we’ve seen time, and time again. If this episode was focused on Buffy and them, instead of Xander, this episode would be very boring and forgettable. Xander finding his worth in the group, and thus saving his friends lives, and the entire world, in the process, is what makes this episode, for me at least. What people don’t realize is that by stopping the bomb, he saved Buffy and friends, thus letting them do their thing and save the world. And what does he do? Doesn’t say word. Doesn’t boast, doesn’t brag, doesn’t tell them a thing. People need to chill over this episode. 😝 It’s one of my all time favorites. Xander is an underrated character and deserves more love. People hate on him wayyyy too much! ❤️

Bixgirl1

Okay, so... There are already 175 (!!!!????) comments here, which I think reaches my nebulous, official point of "not gonna bother" so I hope you'll forgive me if I end up repeating smthng someone else has already said but: when I first saw this episode, I was exactly like you (only younger and a lot less - justifiably - critical of certain elwments of the show); I had no idea wtf the writers were thinking. And yet, as the years have gone by, it's slowly become one of my absolute favorites???? It took me several watches to understand how deeply The Zeppo leaned into so many of the tropes that Buffy either invented or made mainstream: the weekly apocalypse, the angsty star-crossed lovers declaration, Oz as a werewolf, brilliant Willow the witch, hard-ass women, Giles at his Watcher best, etc... With every viewing I found something new to laugh over and appreciate. I think one of the reasons it was so easy for them to do that was exactly *by* transmuting the drama into melodrama, and focusing on Xander's comedic - but legitimate - journey. I totally understand why a lot of people might still not enjoy this episode, or sort of thing in general, but the meta subtext has never stopped being a blast for me, twenty years in. 😂 Loved your reaction, btw. As always, looking forward to the next!

Jamie Morgan
>>45479155

Yeah, I feel like she missed a lot of 'the point' of this episode which was very frustrating, but I guess understandable for a first watch. Hopefully she'll pick up on it more on a second viewing!

Jamie Morgan
>>45480219

Yep, the apocalypse plot is basically a parody of itself! I feel like Alley missed that, she did say she was much more interested in that, even though it was telegraphed that it really didn't matter that much lol.

Chris Hanley

The genius of the episode was switching the roles of the a plot and b plot. It turned the traditional structure of storytelling upside down by making the 'b plot' the focus of the episode. It's jarring to watch at first, but that's because it's an entirely new way of structuring an episode.

Jamie Morgan
>>45479155

Okay, I totally get where you're coming from with that comment you said at the very end!! That's exactly how I feel about When She Was Bad. From an objective viewpoint, yes, I acknowledge that episode is really well done and a great continuation of season 1 and whatnot, but I just don't vibe with it when I watch it. You seriously have a way with words, I never thought I could find some understanding on you not liking The Zeppo, but here we are!

Shashank
>>45464096

That’s so cool! didn’t know that was an inspiration. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead is one of my favorite comedic plays which is endlessly quotable much like Buffy. “We do on stage things that are supposed to happen off. Which is a kind of integrity, if you look on every exit as being an entrance somewhere else.”

Soren Andersen

I find the Zeppo difficult to enjoy, but i respect the concept, and the shows ability to poke fun at its own tropes.

Jim Greer

Zeppo was the fourth Marx Brother that nobody remembers.

Zak

I love this episode, I think its actually a fairly realistic way of depicting some of the identity crises that young lads go through. Its also pretty damn funny

Emily Bayfield

Ahhh people get defensive over this one! And I get it, it’s a good episode, I just don’t enjoy it. I like Xander as part of the gang but I just don’t really care to watch him do stuff on his own without the others for almost a whole episode 😂

John Kress

I have to agree that the episode gets much better upon rewatching. In the first watch, a lot of it doesn't make sense, because what looks like the main plot, the end of the world, is really nothing we learn much about, and we see the show parodying itself in all its over the top glory. And what seems to be the side-plot, Xander's, IS the real story. It is the story of the Zeppo: Zeppo was the fourth Marx brother, and he was the straight man that let Groucho, Chico, and Harpo BE as funny as they were. You can have good comedy without a straight man but for truly great comedy you need a great straight man, and Zeppo Marx was one—but since his job was to set up the laughs, he never delivered the laughs, and so never got credit, since his contribution to the group was HARD TO SEE. I think the point is something like that, that Xander DOES bring something essential to the group, but it's HARD TO SEE. And it's hard to put into words, too. I think this episode was trying to show us what can't easily be said: if you removed Xander from the group, SOMETHING essential would be lost, and though in isn't a "superpower" or anything like that, it's essential.

L R

I love this episode , so many memorable scenes . I'm worried for Alley though as she seems to be able to tolerate vampire attacks and ritual child murders but not so much two people getting it on . What would your psych professor make of that . Later seasons are gonna be really hard on you .

Zak

I do get the whole idea that we have seen this from xander before but as someone who binged buffy I was getting sick of the buffy saves the day from random monster thing at this point so welcomed it

KiwiJello

This episode cracks me up. It's a filler, for sure, but the car thing hits home. Here is why: I have a 1992 Jeep YJ Wrangler. All tricked out. At least twice a week, some guy stops me and tells me what a chick magnet my rig must be. Two things... not a single woman has EVER commented on it, and I am gay, so the Irony of it NOT being a chick magnet is pretty funny. Point is, a car person just wants your car and it doesn't make you cool. I think the point of this episode is to remind us of Xander outside of being a Scooby. He is resourceful, witty, and capable. Sound familiar? :)

tvaddict
>>45474474

Buffy's slaying powers came back by this point which includes incredibly fast healing. She very rarely carries wounds with her across episodes, why would she here?

TaraFromTerra

All I've seen lately on FB is posts about skipped episodes and this is a big one. It's corny, but I love every episode /shrug

Miricat

This episode is actually a huge change for Xander. Until now his low opinion of himself makes him seek approval from everyone and be afraid of rejection and most everything else. By the end of this episode, he doesn't tell the gang about his adventures because he is not seeking their approval - he has become confident in his worth. An with Cordelia, he doesn't respond to her with his defensive humor because he doesn't feel the need to defend himself for the same reason. As to his one-nighter with Faith, having sex for the first time (he tells her its the first) relieves that fear and insecurity as well, as Faith is experienced and takes charge so he can relax. Oh, and Faith already established that she gets horny after a fight. All in all, the most change we have seen in Xander to date.

Erica Schaefer
>>45463963

As I am quite confident you have already noticed, hindsight adds an ENTIRE other layer to literally everything that happens on this show. It's why people struggle with self-control spoiling things, I think. I'm down for select re-watch reactions... (We say as you are only, like 1/3 of the way through the Buffyverse...)

Ashley

I really feel like this gets better on re-watches because the show is so self-aware it can make fun of it's own dramatics and you're able to get more perspective on it after watching once. If you're watching the first time through, it may not be that funny. I love this episode.

Dan H

The real pattern, and most egregious in this episode, is the writers kind of artificially put the character in a place he wasn't in order to tell the same story again. Look at the teaser for this episode and all the over-the-top concern about Xander - singularly and specifically - being in danger near a fight. Then go rewatch any of the foregoing 46 episodes and find where that was *ever* an issue before. It wasn't in "Killed By Death" when he was staring down Angelus, it wasn't in "Lover's Walk" when he at least tried to fight off Spike, it wasn't... ever. And it's really a disservice to just artificially reposition characters just to tell a one-episode story of undoing the repositioning. That said I love the episode - it's a great use of farce comedy. Xander walking into the over-melodramatic stew of Buffy and Angel and when he leaves, even the score comes back in, is a favorite of mine.

Flora Smith
>>45483611

Yeah there’s literally no skippable episodes in the Buffyverse!

Georgina Cussans

I forgot Michael Cudlitz was in this episode!! Any walking dead fans here? 😁

Callumbo Heath

Not a favourite of mine, but it has its moments. Not in my top 10 of the season but a lot of people do rate this episode highly.

Jeffrey
>>45476150

Zeppo was the non-comedic 4th brother. Here is what one critic wrote about him in 1928: "One of the handicaps to the thorough enjoyment of the Marx Brothers in their merry escapades is the plight of poor Zeppo Marx. While Groucho, Harpo, and Chico are hogging the show, as the phrase has it, their brother hides in an insignificant role, peeping out now and then to listen to plaudits in which he has no share."

Jeffrey
>>45481280

As a critic wrote about him in 1928: "One of the handicaps to the thorough enjoyment of the Marx Brothers in their merry escapades is the plight of poor Zeppo Marx. While Groucho, Harpo, and Chico are hogging the show, as the phrase has it, their brother hides in an insignificant role, peeping out now and then to listen to plaudits in which he has no share."

Jeffrey
>>45481623

I like how it is a wonderful take on the life of Zeppo Marx, who was part of the gang, but always on the sidelines. It's written from Zeppo's point of view. Here is what a critic said of Zeppo in 1928: "One of the handicaps to the thorough enjoyment of the Marx Brothers in their merry escapades is the plight of poor Zeppo Marx. While Groucho, Harpo, and Chico are hogging the show, as the phrase has it, their brother hides in an insignificant role, peeping out now and then to listen to plaudits in which he has no share."

Jeffrey
>>45482161

Here is what a critic wrote about Zeppo in 1928: "One of the handicaps to the thorough enjoyment of the Marx Brothers in their merry escapades is the plight of poor Zeppo Marx. While Groucho, Harpo, and Chico are hogging the show, as the phrase has it, their brother hides in an insignificant role, peeping out now and then to listen to plaudits in which he has no share."

darby72

I have to say, it's pretty remarkable that this reaction only came out late last night and there are already over 180 comments. This is far more than any other reactors I support on Patreon ever get. You have created quite a community here, Alley, and you should be very proud.

darby72

I don't blame you at all for a lukewarm reaction to this episode (haven't actually watched it yet, but just going off what you said in your description above). I have not been particularly looking forward to watching it myself (the episode, not your reaction). I actually have the opposite experience, that I think when I first saw it I loved it and thought it was very funny. But upon rewatches, there is just so much that bothers me. Mainly, the fact that after Xander fighting alongside Buffy and the others and being in danger so much and sometimes even being the key to saving the day (rocket launcher, anyone?) we are suddenly supposed to believe that he is a completely incompetent buffoon and they are so worried about his safety that they keep him away from the entire situation? Sorry, not buying it. It feels like character assassination and ignoring history for the sake of a joke which feels less funny to me each time I watch the episode.

Emily Bayfield
>>45481623

Definitely! It’s very interesting and I get a lot more out of it rewatching it and considering all of these things that I didn’t know the first time around. But still, it’s not a favourite for me.

Brandon Scott

I get what others are saying and I too understand you having a "lukewarm" reaction to this episode initially. Being a person who watched these episodes the first time they aired back in the 90's and early 2000's, I have noticed a HUGE difference in the way I and others who share that in common with me, and those of you in the next generation who are watching these episodes for the first (or near it) time. This actually became one of my favorite episodes over time. I haven't watched your reaction yet but I feel comfortable saying that Whatever your reaction too it, you were probably well justified in feeling any type of way. The world was different back then. We saw some things differently, we saw some things that weren't actually there and we sometimes didn't see a great many things that were right in front of our noses. I just hope you're able to see the genius in the art.

Ryan Powers
>>45493451

It's being told from his perspective and he's an unreliable narrator. The things they're doing in this are about how he feels, not necessarily how they're *actually* treating him. And we can't really tell exactly which is which. The broad strokes are probably more or less accurate, but the specifics are not. The details are based on his insecurity, not the actual actions/words directed towards him.

Kirby
>>45462992

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Xander hate. I agree about him being the most human of the characters. Everyone else is special in some way - Buffy is the slayer, Willow is a computer guru and now a witch, Giles is intelligent/knowledgeable/ the adult, Oz is a werewolf, etc. Xander is just a regular guy. Yet he chooses to help and put himself in danger to save the world. Even when nobody else knows about it. Personally, I think he's a great character and I love him.

Kirby
>>45463055

I hate to be nitpicky but the Marx brothers were a thing waaaaay before WW2. Their first film was "The Cocoanuts" in 1929. Before that they were on Broadway and before that they were in Vaudeville starting in the early 1900s. And Richard's right that Gummo left first. Zeppo was the youngest and least important of the Marx brothers. My favorite Marx brothers film is "Duck Soup" Sorry 'bout that. Huge fan of the Marx Brothers here.

Chas Summers
>>45463055

IMDB has their last movie as 1949 so I wasn't technically wrong. However, "depression era" would probably be a better description of their heyday.

Collinson
>>45493195

Ally is a great reactor. Even when she has opinions that aren’t inline with the fandom she makes great observations about the episode that people appreciate.

Kirby
>>45463296

I agree. She's got all kinds of flaws, but always gets a pass because she's adorable. (Don't get me wrong I LOVE Willow.) While Xander gets nailed to the cross, metaphorically, every time he makes a mistake or does/says something less than perfect.

Collinson
>>45466726

Every person in this show has things that make them a terrible person, it’s literally part of the entire basis of the show that no one is perfect and all people are flawed. If you hate Xander you hate all the main cast.

Kirby
>>45463373

This is why I love this episode so much. I adore satire. Some people don't really care for satire.

Kirby
>>45463384

Do you think that fans don't typically like Xander? I personally love him, and I know others who like him and I've seen posts from people who like him.... But was there a poll or something to decide this?

Collinson
>>45462992

I don’t think this is spoiler material (Timothy tell me to delete if I need to) but as someone who watched this as it aired and was on the original Internet Buffy forums there was no Xander hate, if anything he was a fan favourite along with the actor himself. I feel the hate seems to come later with the actors personal issues later in life and people pushing that onto the character.

Rockworm

I'm probably already repeating what others have already said but The Zeppo is a reference to The Marx brother's 4th member Zeppo Marx. The Marx brothers was a family comedy act in the early 1900s and Zeppo was lesser known than his other brothers.

Heather Macdonald

It has never been a stand out episode for me, but also not one that I skip, like the fish one.... However I did think that what they did for this episode was really cleaver, and I feel that Xanders character growth from this episodes builds him into the character he continues on and develops to be in further seasons.

Kirby
>>45468612

The last film Zeppo Marx was in, was Duck Soup for Paramount Pictures. The Marx Brothers next film was A Night at the Opera for MGM. They went on to make several more films, all without Zeppo.

Kirby
>>45473473

I liked it the first time I saw it, lol.

Kirby
>>45476150

The Marx brother that didn't talk was Harpo.

Kirby
>>45463055

Technically, still wrong. That's like saying that the Elvis era was the 1970's. Yeah, he was still recording music, but it would be far more accurate to define his era as 1950's.

Kirby
>>45500879

I wish I had a dollar for each time this info has been posted. And five dollars for every inaccurate statement about the Marx brothers, lol.

Alley Box
>>45493195

yes, it is quite insane how many comments I get on here. even on discord, there is usually always a new discussion when I go on there. so so happy that people are engaged enough that they also want to pitch in with their own thoughts

Alley Box
>>45483155

haha I feel that. my brother is SUCH a car guy and anytime we are driving and he sees a cool car, he bout loses his shit and wants to talk to them. so if anything.. cars are more so a "car guy magnet" tbh lol

Felix Dürhammer

The comment section blowing up....lol.....I think every Buffy fan was expecting that. This is because Xander is such a polarizing character on the show. And your observation, that this kind of storyline reappears but Xander doesn’t show character growth long term is correct imo, you probably missed out on the meta theme of the show making fun of it self in making the „A plot“ a melodramatic over the top chliche, because you watched it for the first time, but that‘s legit too. I really enjoy your observations, especially when you knew it was probably gonna divert from most fan‘s opinion. The fact that you are so real is why you gained so much following, keep it up!

Eric Haefele
>>45476150

I apologize for commenting off the top of my head without researching the info first. Thanks to you and Jeff for fact checking me.

UTU49
>>45466327

An asexual birch tree wouldn't turn down Eliza Dushku.

ahmad

I don't agree that the Xander theme of this episode was explored before, I love how he helped saved the world and no one knew about it. It gets a 7/10 from me.

Brandon Scott
>>45496884

Okay, so after hearing your comments at the end of the video I just have a couple of things I'm a little confused about. Fist, the idea that Xander "wouldn't do that sort of thing" in regards to sleeping with Faith. Um, why? Yes he was COMPLETELY insecure and self-conscious, and that was 100% apparent. That coupled with Faith's SUPER aggressive/assertive approach, in a way would make a guy feel trapped. "If I leave I'm turning down sex with this gorgeous, amazing woman... but if I stay I have to have sex with this gorgeous, amazing, INTIMIDATING woman!" But in the end, 99.5 percent of all heterosexual 18 year old boys are staying in that room; there's no way you're dragging them out, even if a part of them wants to leave. Second: This idea that Xander didn't grow much in this episode is wild to me. It wasn't about how he fits in the group. That wasn't the focus of the episode nor was it what Xander had come to terms with by the end. Of course he didn't tell anyone what happened. It would have ruined it if he told someone. The whole point is that he realized that, when the chips are down, he IS capable; he IS strong and smart and even kind of a hero. The whole point was that Xander didn't need the approval of anyone else -- not the group; not Cordelia; Not Jack and his merry band of zombies -- he learned that he IS a worthwhile person inside himself. And, to be true to that, there was no reason to share the nights exploits with them. Love your videos. Love your reactions. Love your commentary and opinion (most of the time :p). And I'm here to support your journey. Thanks for being awesome.

Allan Cornett

Just now finished the reaction . Watching Alley laugh throughout the episode and the constant confusion on what the hell is going on was so inline on how many first time viewers reacted to it. I do disagree on that the story of the hellmouth opening would have been more interesting. Been there , done that .

Kirby
>>45471463

Yeah, but more people have heard of Zeppo than Gummo - the 5th Marx brother who quit before they made films.

Kirby
>>45476150

Lol, no need to apologize. I just happen to be a rabid Marx brothers fan. Like I've read books about them and everything.

Keenan White

I really enjoyed this episode for what it was, it was never meant to take itself seriously, just a good old fashion comedy, had me laughing the whole way so it did it’s job. And that’s what I love about this series, one episode could have you falling over with laughter, while another could have you balling your eyes out. You can’t really put a label on this show because it’s so many different things, a horror, suspense thriller, comedy, drama, fantasy, Syfy, action adventure, you name it, it brings it.

indaeo

Every time I watch The Zeppo, I have greater and greater appreciation for it. Along the lines of a Rosencrantz and Gildenstern, where the B story is turned into the A story, we get to see a storyline through a different lens. Just like nobody would know what the Scooby Gang did to save the world, the Scoobies won't ever know what Xander did to save them. The way the show leaned into the parody element of their own stories was so smart and added to the layers of comedy throughout. I'll always appreciate the show for taking chances on how they tell their stories, and The Zeppo is a perfect example.

indaeo
>>45515718

I forgot to mention that the concept of not knowing what others are going through because your own life is so loud and hard to deal with is a great foreshadowing to a later episode (that I won't spoil). Just a really nice tie-in.

L-o-l-a
>>45482161

Well said, John - your point about "hard to see" is spot on and it lines up with Alley's typed-in text at the end of the video about the "outsider" connection between Jack's zombie crew and Xander. I'm glad that you outlined the Marx Bros. framework here. It's interesting that Zeppo was the straight man to the other 3, while Xander is the jokester in his group. The show, while making a parody of its own melodrama (Buffy & Angel), also rewrites the outsider/straight man guy into a coward. I agree with someone else who said it's not really true to the Xander character to suddenly make him an outsider or helpless or someone that Buffy and Willow eject in the middle of a big fight so he doesn't get hurt. We've seen him handle himself fine in battle (plus, you know, be a soldier at one point). There is NO WAY Buffy and Willow would ever do any of this stuff without him. But, I like this episode because it really does make Xander a very decent fellow - he's kind, self-effacing, conciliatory, moral - and he grows into a more developed manhood by the end. He doesn't brag or boast, he just smiles and goes on about his day. Also, taking the zombie's head off with a mailbox - that NEVER gets old!

Nikolai5

One of the main jokes of the episode is that there is a terrible world ending event going on but instead we're following the misadventures of Xander. Also, just to overshare quite a bit, when you said that an inexperienced person having a one night stand type thing is unrealistic, well for me it was relatable because that's exactly what happened with me. You have to note that Faith instigated it and was basically taking charge which takes a lot of pressure off. It's easier to just follow someone's lead even if you're scared.

Andrew Pulrang

It’s fair to say it’s a clever gimmick that we’re focused on the “wrong” story. And I do think Alley makes a good point that we’ve already had a bunch of stuff contending with Xander’s role in the group, while this episode seems to imply that it’s dealing with it as a new or neglected theme, when it really isn’t so much. The most interesting aspect of this episode is that they didn’t just shift focus to Xander ... they gave all the signals that the big Hellmouth crisis was truly epic. From Buffy, Willow, Giles, and Oz’s point of view one of the very worst battles of what would be the entire series. Yet from the point of view we are given, it’s almost funny. Which kind of reminds us that the rest of the world, and of Sunnyvale, is mostly clueless about EVERY adventure our gang faces.

Ed Badalucca
>>45476150

To say a straight man is non-comedic might be the height of misunderstanding what exactly comedy is. You can't have comedy without someone to react to (or not react to) the funny thing. Margaret Dumont was a perfect comedienne in that she stood there, and took Groucho's ... slings and arrows... with a beleaguered yet stunning indifference. You cannot do that without timing, without a sense of the rhythm of the thing. Zeppo played the romantic leads and the straight man. And when he decided to leave the troupe, he was not "gone and forgotten" he was replaced by a string of leading men who stood there and took it. He's essential, but often overlooked. Hence the connection to Xander. While Cordy sees failure in Zeppo, thus invoking him in her epic put-down, the title actually fits in the better light that Xander finds himself at the end of the episode.

Matthew Garrison-Perkins

I don't comment often, been with you since season one. Yours as any ones opinion on a piece of art is valid, and we are here to witness and be exposed to your first time reaction to a piece of art. I totally relate to Xander, although his character is quite shallow the first few seasons. A young man whose friends are almost all strong and mostly female, in a world filled with toxic masculinity. His character is the most manipulated by the world forcing him into a role he obviously doesn't adhere to, even more than Buffy as she is allowed to be "a girl" at least part of the time. In my opinion his insecurity is his biggest flaw, and who of us can't say the same thing? Women are forced to live in a world dominated by the masculine, Xander lives in a world where conforming to that masculinity is expected and demanded to survive. It's as hard to relate fully as a man or a woman, especially a young one, to this force from the others point of view because the force is there both actively and passively at all times. I adore nearly every character is the series for one reason or another, but I RELATE to Xander as we have many shared life experiences. So much so that I named my first and only son, Alexander nickname Xander. He will be 5 in less than a month, and whenever I watch your reactions, he always perks up when he hears his own name. Thanks for reading, and keep up the wonderful reactions.

Dentarthurdent
>>45520414

I get not liking the episode, I'm not a huge fan either if I'm honest, although it definitely has some highly amusing bits. But generally, I don't love the dead guys gang, and I do find some of the scenes with them and Xander too long/boring. I do find it amusing to want more of the A plot, as to me it was just so obviously a parody rather than actual plot, but maybe that's because I've seen it numerous times. However, I can't agree that it's a good point that we've seen all this before. I'd ask, when? Because there's literally been two Xander-centric episodes so far ( Teacher's Pet, and BB&B. Ok, throw in Inca Mummy Girl as well if you want, and make it 3), and none of them have covered ground like this before at all. I also don't feel like Xander's realisation at the end was about him accepting that he was on the sidelines, or not a big player, or however it was said. It actually seems like Xander understanding his own strength and realising that he doesn't need recognition from others for it. Quite different to just accepting he's 'not as important' as the main players. So again, from that perspective, I don't think it's been covered before at all in the show.

Alexis Cardarella

I’m a bit overwhelmed by the comment section tbh- as much as I appreciate it, I’m like, ahhhhh, how does Alley wade through all of this. I just wanted to say I also had the same exact take, and when I’ve voiced that, it was definitely a minority opinion in the comment sections. And I love Xander, however polarizing his character is. Throughout the episode I just really felt more interested in what was happening with the rest of the gang, considering it was the biggest thing they’d ever faced so far... like.. that’s a lot to go up against in terms of another plot going on. I do think Xander grew, in the sense that he realized he was skilled and smart and an essential when it came it fighting evil. Not telling anyone though, like, meh... Okay, so you internalized some confidence, but the gang should have known what you went through still!

Justin Jefferson

To this day i still dont get why ppl go so hard on Xander but when it comes to other characters like Willow for example everyone just goes awww she so cute or she didnt know better its not her fault. Dont get me wrong i luv Willow top 3 characters along with Buffy and Spike but a lot of ppl really go in on Xander and pick every little thing he does apart and i never understood why they dont do it for the other ppl on the show. O and btw luv this episode its top 10 for me it cracks me up and like everyone else has said about switching the roles of the a plot and b plot is great.

Jeffrey
>>45530997

But when you need to know the plural of apocalypse, you tend to tune some of them out and go along for the ride.

cheekyhobbit

Alley: "Because I'm in love with Faith." Girl, join the club. She's the best.

Nebraska

I can't decide whether it was you or Xander that felt more awkward during the Xander/Faith scene. The "I've never been up with people" line was definitely him telling Faith that it was his first time.

cil

as others have said...this episode was intentionally over the top. the show was poking fun at itself. it definitely is self aware with how over dramatic bangel scenes are and how ridiculous it is that the world is always on the brink of ending lol. so if this episode felt silly and disjointed...it was suppose to.

Kirby
>>45476150

Man, I love Margaret Dumont. Props for mentioning her. I didn't want to bore people to death analyzing the Marx brothers comedy, lol. I agree with you about Zeppo's role in Marx brothers comedies. My favorite Marx brothers film is Duck Soup. Zeppo's actually pretty funny in that one.

Nick Earl

Sorry, but I love this episode, one of my top five for the season. It is so funny and thematically interesting, and utterly unpredictable.

Robert Westlund
>>45496884

Totally agree. I love Alley's reactions, but I feel she missed out on the great story here. I hope she enjoys it more one day in the future if she rewatches it. Xander's growth was amazing to me. In the course of one episode he went from being insecure and believing everyone's opinion of him to becoming his own man. From fearful to fearless. From standing alone to standing ON his own. I loved how the end-of-the-world story was treated as a subplot. I know it's not what Alley ultimately wanted, but to me it's what makes Buffy so great! What other show would have the balls to do that? And he wasn't just "taking it" from Cordelia at the end, he was rising above it; impervious to her taunts. I thought it was a perfect ending. Definitely one of my favorite episodes.

Brandon Scott
>>45510225

Me either. I kept trying to think of what episodes she might’ve been talking about.

Shawn Skelton

Xander's joke in the beginnning is a reference to Superman about a reporter named Jimmy Olsen, complaining he'll never get the "good" stories if he hangs back while Clark Kent rushes into action.

Pam Nail

I love this episode, but it's definitely better on rewatch once you know what it's doing. I wonder if they spend a bit too much screen time on the apocalypse we never get to see.

AJ Newton

My first ever favorite episode. (It's almost like you called it. 😅) I love that the show was able to poke fun at itself because they've built this world so well, they can tinker with the established rules. And I love Xander in this episode because he was so relatable for me. He was the first character I vibed with way back when. I spent a lot of my childhood looking like a jerk and a weirdo due to my mental health so it's always been easier to be the person working behind the scenes while others take center stage. Like Xander, I've always had the unfiltered emotional response and have come off as selfish and callous in the past. Xander, both who he is and who he can be, helped me a lot growing up. A fun and understated episode but I can see the other side of it and understand how this might not be a favorite for everyone.

Paul Maki

If you’ve never read or seen Tom Stoppard’s “Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead” you should definitely check it out. If you have Amazon Prime the film version starring Gary Oldman and Tim Roth is available and excellent. This is where the structure they took for this episode came from, and I recommend the original.

Krista
>>45462902

Xander is my least favourite character but for some reason I always love Xander centric eps, they're just so well made.

James B.

I love that they made the apocalypse the B plot.

CrookedCat
>>45466726

jesus christ men are fragile, we need to hold them to a higher standard goddam

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

I'm not going to comment about Xander because it looks like I couldn't add anything. So many good comments :) I AM going to talk about Buffy + Giles though, because nobody seems to have and that's my thang ;) While the after effects of Helpless are pretty subtle I think they are there (and the scenes are not seen through Xander's eyes so they're not distorted by his POV). I read them as tense around each other in the first scene in the library and Giles is very serious and subdued. He seems to be doing his best to show her that he'll do anything without complaint, like when she tells him she doesn't want the details he just puts the book back and lets her get on with it, no comment, no rolling his eyes, very anti-Giles. Buffy has an almost forced 'everything is OK' attitude throughout. I think she's just trying to forget it all and move on. Then she eats three of his favourite doughnuts. I don't think that's put in there for no reason. I saw a comment somewhere and I'm stealing it, it's a passive-aggressive move that maybe even Buffy isn't aware that she's doing. Alley even kinda commented that it was related to last episode in her reaction and I think she's spot on. I mean, three?!?! Although, Willow, way to throw your friend under the bus lol Also, I think Giles' 'bravest thing ever' is over compensation in the same way as going after the glove was for Xander in Revelation. I mean Giles was right in the thing's face slashing away, good grief man, and it might not even be that she's talking about!! Anyway, like I said, it's really subtle but there has to be SOMETHING, right?! That's not really something you get over in a week ffs!