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RWBY Volume 6 Episode 3 Reaction (Patreon)

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2024-01-06 17:00:05
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Story time! Hope you enjoy our reaction to RWBY Volume 6 Episode 3

Comments

Erimgard13

Here we go...

CMDRZero

Was waiting for this one!!!

Fox_CFVY

Remember when Oz told Ruby that he made more mistakes than anyone on the planet. Yea he wasn't lying

Historia-Europa

I wonder if Ozpin's trust issues started with Salem, he trusted her with the full truth and she turned on him. Also I think the Maidens were Oz's attempt to recreate his lost daughters as I think they died in that fight.

SavvySpark

I think most agreed after this episode that the gods were the true villains. I mean they took a person who didn’t understand the importance of death and turned her into someone with no respect for life.

CMDRZero

It's my understanding that the kid died in that battle and that he actually did imbue the sisters with his powers, as he was the Old Wizard.

Pyrodragon3993

The Brothers Grimm never allow a happy ending, that's what Disney is for lol.

Serpent King

The problem isn't what Oz did in his past. The problem is that he's leading his followers down an endless road towards a literally impossible goal. And until now they did not know.

Megan Saunders

This episode single-handedly cemented my love for Oz and Oscar as my favorite characters in this show. It also makes it impossible for me to view Oz as a villain or morally grey like the show has been hinting at. He has literally been the lone guardian at the gate in a sense for millennia, fighting against the woman he once loved, and knowing that her sole purpose now is to destroy everything he loves over and over again. The two lines I always come back to whenever the idea of him not being a hero comes up are "He fought for righteousness and his pure heart and selfless courage prevailed" and "But no matter what his mind would return to the task he had been burdened with". Has he made some mistakes and poor choices that he probably deeply regrets? Abso-freaking-lutely. Does that make him a villain? No way. It's interesting that Bethany immediately singled out Jinn's last line - "You can't" and jumped to the next logical question, which is "Does that mean Oz can't destroy Salem, or does that mean that no one can destroy her?" Personally, I think the answer is the first - OZ can't destroy her, either because one person alone can't do it, or just because there's still a part of him that deeply loves her (no matter how long they've been waging this war) and he just wouldn't be able to do it for that reason. After all, they immediately recognized each other at first look when Oz came back for the first time. I also think what you said about trauma rings true, and ties back to some of the stuff I've mentioned earlier. Oz gives the information he feels people need, when they need to know it. Most likely he does this because this whole story is so traumatic for him and he doesn't like to revisit it unless he has to. Besides - what's easier? Convince people to work with him to stop someone from "remaking the world" with the Relics, or convince people to help him unite humanity to prevent gods they no longer know or believe in from destroying everything? Oz needs a boat-load of therapy - he's been carrying this for so long, and it has jaded him somewhat, especially given the many betrayals he's implied he's gone through as well. He believes in humanity as a whole, but has trouble trusting them personally, which is his big contradiction for his character arc. As far as the Maidens - the four little girls (Oz and Salem's kids) died during that battle. That's what's implied with the little stuffed dog lying on the ground amid the ruins of the palace - and the girls were not given the power to reincarnate like Oz does, nor did they have the immortality curse their mother does. Oz has been doing this for millennia now, and he said that he created the Maidens "centuries ago". Plus, he also told them last Volume that he "sacrificed a great deal of power" in creating the Maidens. I don't think he would literally have had to sacrifice power for them if it was just about their actual conception / birth. Lore-wise, I think the assumption we have to make is that at some point after that battle with Salem - who knows how many lifetimes later, Oz was becoming a bitter old hermit living in the woods, until four young women found him and restored his faith in humanity with their compassion and friendship. So, in return for their kindness, he split his power and created the first Maidens - in honor of his lost daughters. It's not true reincarnation with the passing of the power from one Maiden to the next - the magic alone is what passes. Which would also mean that - in another face to face with Salem, Oz's powers will not be as strong as hers, because he gave up so much of his power to the Maidens. And one last thing to keep in mind - go back to what the God of Light said to Ozma when he gave him the mission. He never said that Ozma's mission was to destroy Salem. He said Ozma's mission was to unite humanity. There's a big difference there. Great reaction as always - can't wait for next week!

Jeff
>>126312210

More that they were not specifically "good" gods. As Salem noted and was even admitted by they themselves, they were fallible. They make mistakes. From our perspective you might have a point, but from theirs humanity amounted to an art project. One they cared about yes but It's not possible to be villainous to your own art. Nor virtuous for that matter. Salem was an experiment much like everything else they did. Measured in success or failure, not good or bad.

Alex Smith

So, I don't think it's ever really explained, but since the Faunus are here this time, and animals were still around, I assume normal evolution took place. In which case Salem was alone for a very, very long time, and it wouldn't be surprising if she went a lil coocoo during that time. All things considered, she seems pretty sane. Also, the gods here are definitely to blame. They claimed she was arrogant and selfish but one of them genocides a species because a few of them were being greedy dicks, and the other curses a grieving woman who just wants her loved one back. Considering Salem's whole life, being locked in a tower, cursed to life without Oz, cursed to wonder the world alone for thousands, if not millions of years, trying everything under the sun to kill herself, just to end up more mentally twisted, then having the person she went through all that for stab her in the back and then all their children die, Salem is a shinning example of sanity.

Jeff
>>126314676

Good breakdown, though putting forth my own thoughts on the "You can't" line, I really really hope that doesn't amount to referring to Oz specifically. First I find that read cheap and boring (not conceiving it, just acting on it). Second I find it far more likely that she simply can't be destroyed because that's the point of her curse. As Bethany suggests, it becomes a question of removing her from power. This isn't a scenario where a sufficient power level is achieved to nullify her advantage, this is a scenario where the solution needs to be noncombative. Not saying talk no jutsu but certainly closer to that than the old "No man can kill me" "I am no man" line (good twist for LOTR, bad for RWBY).

SavvySpark
>>126312210

Living things are not “art” or “experiments”. The fact that he called it an experiment just adds to the villainy.

K

Was waiting for this one! I believe Salem and Oz’s children aren’t the actual maidens, they died in the battle, but rather Oz was reminded of them when the four women visited him in his hermit life and chose to pass on his magic. The story is accurate so far as we know. Always love your reactions, discussion & analysis.

Coleman Mavity

The biggest question I think an in universe character should have learning all this is, if Salem can't be killed, what is the plan? What have they all been working towards? What have people laid down their lives to further along or achieve?

GeoH

Oooooh doggy this episode. It's believed that their daughters died during the big fight (with the stuffed animal being the last we see them) and then during Ozs depression lives the story of the seasons happens, bestowing a portion of his powers to four girls that likely reminded him of his daughters. And as Jinn said he then turned back to the light. Loved your reactions and looking forward to future episodes😁.

Knoppis

"Do you really think Leo was the first?!" that line alone in the previous episode, followed by this episode speaks volumes of why Ozpin does not trust ANYONE with the things that RWBY, Maria, Oscar and Qrow just learned. I mean, the guy has been stabbed in the back again, again and again, each time it happens it brings all of Reamnant that much closer to ruin.

Inifus
>>126314676

I agree that if the, "you can't," reply specifically means Oz, it would feel really cheap. Salem literally united the kingdoms against the gods by letting people try over and over to kill her, she is specifically cursed to never die, even the physical manifestation of pure destruction could not kill her. The gods specified exactly what is needed for her to die - she needs to learn the importance of life AND death, only then will she be allowed to die.

El Patitas de Molcajete Takamachi

Solo vengo a decir que Raven, tenía razon. En algunas cosas. Y aún después de tanto, me sigo preguntando: ¿Porque hicieron inmortal a Salem? Jamás voy a entender eso.

Inifus

I'm pretty sure the, "You can't," is a collective answer and not a loophole - he didn't ask how she could be destroyed, he asked how he could destroy her and was told he couldn't. So, while that answer was specifically aimed at him, it isn't a loophole, it's just an accurate answer. The gods said how she could finally die - she has to learn the value of life and death, as that was the balance she once tried to trick the gods into violating. So Salem cannot be destroyed, but that doesn't mean that she cannot be defeated. Ken spotted something that I've seen very few people ever comment on - the tree in the God of Light's domain. We know that the black pools in the God of Darkness's domain still exist, Salem's realm is amid them... so where is the God of Light's domain? As they are opposites, it stands to reason that they were on opposite sides of the world and Salem's domain is speculated to be the landmass shaped like the God of Darkness's dragon form in the west, so that would put the God of Light's domain in the east. Not just in the East, but pretty much right on top of Mystral and Haven Academy. Cinder did remark about how the vault seemed special compared to the one at Beacon and we know she fell into water at the bottom. That side of the world got bombarded when the moon was destroyed, so having it buried deep can be easily explained too. This is purely speculation, but it does lead to some interesting thoughts when you consider that Cinder also fell into the water, very similarly to what happened to Salem here.

dainbramage7

I like to tell people that RWBY has different tiers or levels of fandom. You have the initial fan who starts with the Beacon days but once Volume 3 Chapter 9 happens you've entered a different tier (Penny's death is the catalyst). This chapter in my mind is the next tier above that. It changes so much about we thought we knew about this show and its story and throws it all on its head. There are two more upgraded tiers upcoming but we've got some volumes to go for that. Great reaction as always and I look forward to future reactions as well.

Squiddy

This is honestly the part that solidified this volume being my favorite. I like it when they expand on the lore since this isn't something we've gotten in detail before. Me personally though, I feel like this is a good portrayal of how trust works. When you give people your trust, you open up the door for a potential betrayal. We've all had it happen in our own lives before, and you can see how it has affected Ozpin with how frustrated he was when he said Leo wasn't the first person. But also, when you show people your lack of trust it only pushes them away. You can see how Raven reacted to being kept in the dark, not knowing anything about what she was truly up against until she was in too deep. She was scared, much like everyone else is and should be and chose to run. But the cast has time and time again risked their necks, even while blind to the truth of it all like with what happened at beacon and they've been way past the option of keeping secrets, and that's just the rough reality that Ozpin has to face. If there's a risk that they may die, which one of them already did (R.I.P Pyrrha) they should know what they're up against and what they're fighting for.

Drakota185
>>126314182

there is a line in the song divide from the bad guys point of view. Have you no shame? Signing them up for your war Train them to fight what they can't beat Your sins are what they'll pay for.

Drakota185
>>126314676

the gods gave salem the immortality curse so only they can take it away. the whole point of the curse was for salem to learn the importance of life and death. there is no loop hole the gods would not have considered that would end her curse before that lesson is leaned. oz really believes that as long as salem exist humanity can never find the common ground they need to pass the gods judgement. he has been fixated on that goal for so long he has forget-en that his task was never to defeat Salem. his task was always to help humanity to re make them selves by using the relics to become something better, to stop fighting among themselves and demanding things of the gods. but instead oz hides the relics, keeps everyone in the dark about there existence and that of the gods.

Drakota185

the god of light has silver eye's, and when killed the grimm the light look the same as when rwby used her silver eye's to kill grimm. I think the silver eyed warriors get their power from the god of light. if that is true he did a lot more then just bring ozma back to life ( after he told salem, that he can't) when he came back.

Bryan Forquer

So yeah, this is definitely one of the biggest episodes in this whole series. So many people want to label Ozpin as the villain after this episode. But really, he's just a man that's trying his best to defeat the evil that he accidentally created. But failed to do so over and over, and every time he fails and is reincarnated. His hope and faith in humanity is slowly becoming more and more fractured. Ozpin has been betrayed more times than anyone can count. Yet he still remains dedicated in his quest to defeat Salem. Because of his tragic past, he is very careful who he trusts. Yet everyone keeps treating him like he's the bad guy when they find out he was withholding parts of the truth. Honestly I feel like anyone would've done the same if they were in his position. He was given an impossible task, but realized that even if there was a one in a billion chance of defeating Salem he knew that he had to try. But it could only work if he was careful about wich parts of the truth that he told. If he had told everyone the whole truth in the beginning, then no one would've trusted him or have been willing to follow him and Salem would've continued reeking havoc and and chaos in the world. Many people act like the world is split into good and bad people. But sometimes you have to act in a morally gray area to do what you believe is right.

Mia White

The main reason ozpin wouldn’t want them to know the story is because of the ending where the genie says that Salem can’t be killed. Because the whole point of this mission that he has recruited everyone for is to take down Salem and now it’s been revealed to them that it’s supposedly not even possible and he knew that and had all of them risking their lives anyway. As for the maidens, Ken is right, it’s just their power that gets passed on. Their consciousness and being doesn’t exist anymore as far as we know.

Anonymous

I've always felt like the secret to winning against Salem was in the lines "Only when you learn the value of life and death may you rest," and when the gods say that they will return to judge humanity. Perhaps RWBY and crew can either enlighten Salem to death on the value of life and death (I think she must want to die so she might play along). OR summon the gods via relics. Attempting to convince them to kill Salem. Perhaps by uniting humanity and faunus alike. Or just telling them off for being kinda a****le gods lol (more on this later).

Jeff
>>126312210

Again that's speaking from our perspective. Those same living beings didn't exist until the brothers opted otherwise. There is no greater morality to source from. In this universe that's precisely what they are, and failing to recognize that is a limitation of either immersion or ego: Either you're applying exterior ideas or you cannot see beyond yourself.

Jeff
>>126314676

To be clear, that's what he does NOW. We have no way of knowing what else he has tried, though we can presume he has tried other things. The rest 100% though.

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126311739

Could also be viewed that he turned on Salem. She did everything she could to bring OZ back to life. She wanted to spend eternity with him. OZ decided that her idea to change humanity was wrong and not part of his mission so in the end he chose the god's goals over Salem's goals. At least that's Salem's point of view and why she feels betrayed as well 🤗

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126314182

If the goal is to kill Salem, then yes. But they can still prevail without having to kill or destroy Salem. 🤔 Just not sure how though haha 🤗

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126314676

Thanks as always for all this info. And yes, stopping Salem and destroying her don't have to go hand in hand. The Jinn's line could mean that OZ can't destroy her, but also the way to stop her could have something to do outside of destroying her and killing her. 🤔

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126317960

All good points. yeah so Salem had to be alone for what... Millions of year? Also, the gods are even bigger dicks by bringing OZ back to life after this whole thing started because they wouldn't bring him back and got mad at Salem because she went to ask Mommy when Daddy said no. 😤

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126331446

It could be both though right? Oz specifically can't destroy or defeat Salem, because like you said she has to learn the value of life and death and that doesn't seem to be something Oz can teach her since he is tied so closely to Salem and all of the events that led to this. 🤔

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126342872

"a lot more then just bring ozma back to life ( after he told salem, that he can't) " Exactly! What a jerk to bring him back after this whole thing started because he wouldn't

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126347863

But he didn't create Salem. The gods did. They punished her and wouldn't let her die and then killed everyone so she was alone for millions of years. Then they brought Oz back basically to oppose her. They were doing fine and living their life and then Oz suddenly felt guilty and that he owed the gods more than Salem and thought their vision of making the world better was better than Salems. because he could've chosen Salem right? The gods only come back when the relics are all brought together so they could've kept them apart forever and just ruled as "gods" themselves over humanity 🤔 Not saying Oz was wrong or that I would've done differently in his situation, more so that the gods suck haha 🤗 And from Salem's position Oz chose the people that hurt her more than anyone else over her.

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126353141

Makes sense. Although maybe his goal shouldn't have been to destroy Salem? Maybe there is another way 🤔 Not sure what that way is yet but hopefully they can think outside the box

definitelynotdefinitive
>>126353987

we like the last one. Telling them off haha. and yes, seems like this will be fixed not though fighting and violence but through some sort of understanding and compassion. 🤔

El Patitas de Molcajete Takamachi
>>126329734

And the worst thing is that Salem will never understand. And humanity continues to suffer and die for and because of it. And it's going to sound bad, but also because of Ozpin, many hunters die. Honestly, Salem is just looking for a way to get revenge on "the Gods" and Ozpin. As? Only she knows.

Jennywocky
>>126311739

I agree with that being Salem's perspective -- you can now see the whole story from her angle with this context and how she would feel betrayed by both the gods and by the person she challenged the gods for in the first place. There's a saying that most villains don't see themselves as villains, they are the heroes of their own story, and Salem definitely views herself as a hero and in the right. Historia -- I had never thought about the 4 Maidens being Oz's attempt to recreate his 4 daughters. That's a great catch, the subtext seems to be in place.

Jennywocky
>>126312210

yup -- and this is explored in much more detail later on, about the brothers.

Jennywocky
>>126331446

Inifus -- I had noticed too that the animation used to show Salem plunging into the God of Light's pool was just like Cinder's plunge after her fight with Raven. I am hoping this has significance versus just being a way to reuse animations, lol.

Jennywocky

Oh man, I was expecting to hear a lot of things watching your recap, but I didn't expect Ken to go all Team Salem suddenly, lol :D But yeah. I think good writing can make an audience empathize with even the "villains" of a story, and explores themes from a variety of perspectives. This episode give Salem more depth and also explains a lot about Ozma/Ozpin/Oscar. As far as the latter goes, he is flawed in some ways but mainly because of his humanity. He wanted to be true to Salem and their relationship, but he felt her desire to supplant (aka eradicate) "regular" humans and faunus and whatever else was a definite evil he could not endorse or be a part of, even if it cost him everything -- and he did sacrifice the easy road eventually. But what he's been through has also filled him with embarrassment and shame, simply because he is human. And finally, as others have noted, he has asked others to support him and his cause against Salem, but he withheld that she is effectively immortal and cannot be killed because he didn't trust that people would still want to support his battle knowing that. How do you defeat someone you cannot defeat? You can only prolong the inevitable. But it's clearer now why the relics are a big deal; whoever controls them determines when mankind is judged. I guess I still do see a difference between the light/dark gods and Salem. While they were gods, they were mostly creator gods who otherwise didn't really get too involved in people's affairs. They created people, they gave people magic. Some have spoken disparagingly of them for creating people "as experiments," but this is what they are: Creator gods, trying out new ideas and seeing what happens. (There is a reason for this.) But pretty much after creating beings, they let people do their thing, even while accepting supplicants to their homes. Meanwhile, Salem is very clear about her proactive goals: She wants to actively reshape the world as its "god," and is very willing to control those who will obey her and destroy those who will not. She even killed her own children while trying to destroy Ozma for defying her. I love that this episode makes Salem far more accessible, but I still thinks she comes off poorly in some ways. I love hearing your after thoughts, especially when you come up with things I haven't thought of. But I also love watching your reactions during the episode, when certain things are revealed. We've all wondered why the moon was broken or why the world is called Remnant... and it's amazing when suddenly it makes sense.

Iejir Isk

Well, Ozma isn't bad... but did try to kidnap their kids, which lead to them getting killed in the 'custody battle'?