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Angel 5x8 - full reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-04 16:00:05
Imported:
2024-04
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LINDSEY????????

link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jjkcfvy4gm5hx0o99pd63/Angel-508.mkv?rlkey=4ncbv15yi0hiqud609ptqottm&dl=0

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Stargazer1682

I feel like it's a bitt of an exaggeration to say Liam was less of a "good person" compared to William. Yes, he drank and caroused with women too much, but we're not given the impression that he was doing anything unconscionable - he wasn't a pickpocket or beating up the women he was trying to seduce. His biggest sin according to his father was that was being a layabout, wasting his life and being a disappointment to him The show really goes out of its way of showing Angel and Spike as being two sides of the same coin; down to the parallel of their human names - Liam is the Celtic variant of William. William appears to come from a family of some means, he rubs shoulders with the stiff upper lip elite, he has a more delicate disposition and refined accent; the leisure of being a poet with no other discernible form of employment; so the family may be well off. I wouldn't be surprised if William had been Head Boy at one time. Liam's father was in textiles; they definitely establish the family had the means to at least live comfortably; they had one servant, good silverware - which Liam drunkenly says his father never uses. One other thing that feel doesn't get overt play in the narrative is, I think Liam was an artist. Like, that must have been his passion. We see him do it all the time, going back to Buffy season 2 and throughout AtS; he sketches all the time, especially in his more introspective moments. It's his emotional outlet and he's *really good*. And it's another layer in the William/Liam parallel, where William's a poet, Liam draws; they're both artists. It's plausible that that may have been a point of contention between Liam and his father that lead to the rift between them; where Liam wanted to pursue that as his vocation and his father thought it wasn't respectful enough job and expected him to come in with him on his business and do actual work. Regardless, a key difference between Angel and Spike is how their respective primary parent treated them in the final lead up to them being turned; thought the fallout afterwards is sort of the same. William's mother coddled him. He was a complete mama's boy, no more ambition than Liam had, but his mother just didn't yell at him for it; and that dynamic doesn't become a problem until William turns her. Meanwhile, Liam's father is withholding and critical of everything Liam does, he can do nothing right; yet he remains desperate for that approval, which Darla even mentions to him after he killed his father how that would loom over him, because he can now never give him that approval. But I think the issue with Liam goes deeper than that. I think becoming a vampire broke him; emotionally and psychologically. He wanted his father to accept him, more than anything. The drinking and carousing was him acting out as a cry for attention; and as he put it, 'living down to every low expectation' his father had. If he only paid attention to Liam when he was calling him a failure, then he had to be the best failure there was. But he wanted his father to accept him as he was and not who his father thought he should be. Given the sort of person Angel is with a soul, the empathy and the sincere passion for doing the right thing and helping people - that doesn't just come having a soul, that arguably had to be at the core of who he was as Liam; he had values and integrity, but he became lost. I think on some level he expected to be "found," to be accepted and get to be the man of integrity he was deep down. But then he became a vampire; an unholy, damned demon and there's no coming back from that. It was the act of rebellion he couldn't take back; and I think damaged him. He immediately proceeds to massacre his village, wiping out all the people who had ties with him when he was human. Afterward, he doesn't just kill to feed; and he doesn't even always kill. He targets people in very psychological ways where he's compelled to take away from others what he feels was taken away from him; their happiness, the things they love and make them feel human. He did this to Dru, driving her insane in the process. He did this to Buffy and Giles, it's what he did to the victims the First appeared to him as in "Amends". And as it turns out, it's what he did to Spike. When he had finally driven Dru insane, Darla assumes he's going to killer her, and Angel says that death is a mercy, because it means the torture ends; and instead he'll make her like them, to make the torture last - that's how he sees his existence even without a soul, as a torture where death would be a mercy. When he tries to awaken Acathla, he talks longingly that once Acathla sucks the world into hell it'll "all be over" - he has a death wish, yet can't act on it to take himself out. In "I Only Have Eyes for You," Angel borders on a manic response to being possessed by the spirit of the teacher, saying he needs to get rid of the lingering feeling of humanity; deciding a "vile kill" will make him feel better. That may well explain why the Judge couldn't burn Angelus or sense any humanity in him. Not only had he just lost his soul, he had also just fed, violently; and that act may have helped suppress what trace humanity vampires are seen to typically have. Likewise, that would also be motivation for Angelus to go on those kind of killing sprees, if he's chasing this relief from feeling any degree of humanity. This theme also plays into the season 4 episode, "Orpheus," where Faith and Angelus are inside Angel's memories. Seeing himself with a soul, being good and the remind of the humanity that comes with that repulses him. Yet we see that Angel - as in our Angel - is there; he's not just a memory, he's talking to Faith and fighting with Angelus before Willow had actually started the spell to put the soul back into his body. This suggests Angel and Angelus are two halves of the same mind; and when he doesn't have a soul, "Angel" IS there; it's just the core traits that define him get tamped down and repressed. Angelus is basically Liam's intrusive thoughts made manifest and given the driver's seat, until Angel's soul forces himself to reconcile all of the facets of his psyche and integrate them all into one mind.

Ron Fehr
>>119094278

Neither Liam nor William were bad people. That occurred only when they became Angelus and Spike. To say which one was worse is impossible to say. Angelus enjoyed 'mindfucking' (pardon the word) with his victims before finally doing them in. Spike took a more violent approach, not afraid to be brutal.

Ron Fehr

I guess that Lindsay wasn't able to totally let go if his grudge against Angel. He sure looked like he was back on the right path when we last saw him.