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Early Access - Doctor Who | Reaction & Review 8x11 "Dark Water" (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-07 04:06:50
Imported:
2023-04

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Comments

Anonymous

yes! director rachel talalay is in the house and no one does it like her! she has an absolute love affair w/ the tardis and the 12th doctor and makes everything look so interesting and beautiful! michelle gomez is utterly amazing and her chemistry with capaldi is electrifying...they have also been bestie's for a number of yrs. such a perfect duo! also, seb was played by peter's costar from the thick of it and so such a treat seeing him turn up...oh and the physic paper joke this ep " why is there so much swearing" when the man looks at it, that was a thick of it easter egg. that transition you talked about was so real for anyone that has experienced real grief and loss, there you are stuck in it watching life and everyone else continue and move on.. it's a horrible thing to try and overcome. "do you think i care for you so little betraying me would make a difference" 😭 really looking forward to next week. thanks ♡

Cas_nc12

The go to hell scene is one of my favorites I love it so much for both characters " Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference" and missy is so good I love her

I have no name

Danny Pink dying was a huge shock when this aired

I have no name

The Cybermen walking down the steps of St Paul's Cathedral was a call back to an episode of Classic Doctor Who

Louis

Rachel Talalay is definitely one of who's best directors, she directs some of the best looking episodes of the show down the line and I'm really looking forward to you to experiencing more of her work here

Anonymous

I love Clara's reaction. It was boring. Of course! She's seen people blown apart by ray guns, crushed by Ice Warriors - hit by a car!? She can't comprehend every day life being as dangerous as the weird adventures she gets up to with The Doctor. People don't like those scenes, but I think they just add to Clara's character, and the idea that being a companion can change you. Reminds me of Jackie Tyler telling Rose that if she keeps travelling, she'll cease to be human.

tom
>>105850851

I have such a disconnect with those people. I wonder what it is, lol but whenever Twelve and Clara argue or Clara exhibits signs of being a worse and worse person I love it and am just like "YES. MORE"

MrEvers

I really think you're gonna enjoy the next two seasons, with how you pick up clues and appreciate how a story gets built up

Anonymous
>>105850851

same here. i was actually a Clara hater until season 8 with all those scenes where she became one of my faves second only to Donna. Just makes her way more interesting and unique of a companion

Carys Barnes

I definitely think that the things explored in this episode make it the most ‘grown up’ episode of doctor who. The first 10 minutes are some of my favourite scenes in DW. Clara calling Danny’s death boring is a great example of this, it is ‘grown up’ because it emotionally complex rather than frightening. I have always thought what she means by it is that his death was boring not because he didn’t die running through space but because it didn’t ‘mean’ anything. On her travels she has been in situations where she has been in danger standing up for something she believes and would die for but more importantly this is what the doctor does all the time and she values this because he does. (This is the idea that is set up in kill the moon/Mummy on the Orient Express/In the forest of the night, the power of standing up and making decisions which runs prominently through this era). It is also something she knows she shares with Danny which he displayed in his time as a soldier. One of the other main ideas is the length people go to for the people they love which all of the three main characters clearly display. Clara is willing to betray the doctor, Danny gives up seeing Clara again and the doctor obviously says ‘do you think I care for you so little that betraying would make a difference’ (though the Clara and doctor always avoid calling it love). Jenna really is one of the most talented dramatic actors and really gets you to feel her loss. There so many clever bits but I love the fact that she says the words ‘ I love you’ ‘are his now’ and Danny uses those words to get her to hang up the call. Well done on picking up the master motif from end of series 3. I do agree the blatant cybermen theme ruins the surprise for anyone who hadn’t noticed the cyber tear. The whole Cybermen plot is good but it’s the character work that really shines.

tom

This is an iconic episode for me. I've it before, but Season 8 was the first I watched live, so this was my first part 1 of a finale and seeing the Missy = Master theory actualized was thrilling. I was too young to figure out the motif connection, though. Still doubt I'd be able to, haha. Your observation skills are unmatched. It's a great episode on a rewatch, especially if you're as invested in this era's Companion/Doctor duo as I am, and perhaps opposite to Death in Heaven which I was flabbergasted with as a 12 year-old but in retrospect isn't nearly as impressive to me (though that final scene remains uniquely touching). First, the first half of this episode is nothing short of gripping. That volcano scene. That betrayal line! The acting on display. For me, it overrides the criticisms you mentioned that I have shared in the past. Danny's sudden death and Clara's blank reaction, The Doctor asking "What can I do for you?" and the punch-in of Clara's eyes, cheesy as the execution with the sound effect may be, is actually one of my favorite cuts to the opening theme. Another comment has already described the meaning of Clara's "boring" line, actually there's a couple different readings that I both love, way more than I could ever do it justice, so I'll leave it there. But that line, "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"... I've been waiting for you to get to it forever. I swear, between the end of Deep Breath, and the end of Listen, and the end of Kill the Moon, and the beginning of Mummy on the Orient Express and the beginning of this (Dark Water) episode, it all felt like it was building up to this... And yet the best is yet to come. Dialogue between Clara and Capaldi might be some of the most riveting in the entire series for me. "Unfortunately for you Clara, I'm exactly what you deserve" so definitively represents the symbiotic relationship these two have. Almost every episode this season and beyond moves the dynamic between the two forward or explores a different aspect of their incredibly complicated dynamic and I love it. The "Do as you're told" encapsulating their constant power struggle, and seeded perfectly throughout the series with constant callbacks. And to go with the callbacks/parallels in this episode, apparently I Mandella Effect'd the fact that the "We're browsing" line happened in the premiere of the season, when they were in the flesh restaurant, but apparently not. Danny's death feels robbed from both her and the audience, with the shot of life continuing right as he's killed. Harsh, and questionable, but effective, in my opinion. And it's something new, not a dramatic or heroic death (though that would be undone in the next episode, but hey this is Moffat we're talking about). Jenna Coleman is simply illuminating in this role. She knocks every beat out of the park and infuses so much life to the character yet it feels perfectly in tone with the writing, just like Capaldi, and it really feels like there's (lol) a symbiotic relationship going on between Moffat's writing and these two powerhouse of actors in creating these characters. I said it in another comment, but I have such a disconnect with most people because the more unlikeable Clara gets, or at least the worse of a person she becomes, the more I'm enthralled by her and want to see it pushed to its limit much like her and Twelve's relationship is. "I love you" repeated from Clara, to Danny, from the first scene to the last. Another comment pointed it out but Danny returns the words later and it's the last thing Clara wants to hear. In a way she says it to him and it severs their connection, then he says it back and it severs their connection too. And this time Clara follows through with her threat when hanging up the call: the idea of leverage, threats and power are a common thread in this season too and works wonderfully with Clara's character. I just love that this episode follows this season's overall trend of following the characters before the plot. The stakes are the conflict between the Clara/Doctor duo and planted right in the hands of these two powerhouse actors tasked with portraying these two powerhouse characters who butt heads over and over again. I've made it no secret that my reading of clara is of her as a very toxic, controlling and fiercely dominant person. She has redeeming qualities, of course, and I'm very fond of her, but I love the way her flaws often drive the plot and conflict forward. Because of all this, I really don't think her "connection" or "love" with Danny is so uniquely strong that it empowers her actions. I see it as a manifestation of her inability to deal with a loss, a broken situation, instead her determination to fix it being too strong. Likewise, with what is coming up in the finale, it may be a bit of a cope but I see there being a multitude of different factors that explains Danny overcoming the cyber-programming besides "the power of love". To me, she and Danny's relationship is a very normal one, with the difference of Clara being a little abnormal. The Doctor telling Clara to be sceptical and critical, NOT mopey, and to give him some attitude is deliciously meta. Highlights the companion's role as well as the multi-faceted yet malleable aspect of Clara's character. A bit of a plot hole i didn't hear you mention in this revisit of the discussion was Clara not making any mention of her dead mother as they walk through the afterlife, despite it being a huge part of her character initially. I just chalk it up to the fact that S7 Clara essentially dies and S8 Clara steps up to take her place as a new entity, which ironically could have literally happened with the lore of her character, but traditional emotional continuity takes precedence and is probably the reason S7 forced a modern-day Clara onto us instead of the two more interesting versions of her that appeared prior With that, onto the finale!