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Attack on Titan 4x6 Reaction Extended (YT link below) (Patreon)

Published:
2021-06-17 02:42:01
Imported:
2021-06

Content

Streamable Link:

https://streamable.com/fvt5vc


YouTube Link:

https://youtu.be/jFcbvgFOYlk


In Attack on Titan 4x6 The Warhammer Titan, we start and finish the best arc of the show: drunk man roaming the street in a stupor.

Files

AOT 4x6 Extended FINAL

Watch "AOT 4x6 Extended FINAL" on Streamable.

Comments

Styx TV

good shit

Anonymous

God this episode is too real.

Anonymous

Yay❣️

malikparah

I remember when you first started the show you said that Eren could be a polarising (main) character and these episodes where eren is going all fall of shiganshina on an eldian internment zone were the episodes that were airing at the time

Anonymous

It’s not that Season 4 doesn’t have villains, it’s just that it balances the moral scale between sides- especially in how Eren basically commits the exact same atrocity that Reiner and Bertholdt did to his hometown. Both sides are shown to be fully human and both sides have committed really horrible evils.

benj

B-b-but but when Eren does war crimes they are epic and cool tho *inhales copiuim*

Polygon

Ah, finally, the very first "EREH" of the season

MikeWest

The Hatred Carousel is a trope as old as writing, but I'm always amazed at how new shows manage to keep the idea fresh and put unique twists on it.

Jiao

Things is I believe Eren has the full perspective and he came to the realization that they are all the same (with Reiner). The fact that he chose to act evil is whole other thing. Tho one can argue that there is freedom even in evil as long as you have as much perspectives as there are so that he can start being genuinely evil

Anonymous

I like your worry of the moral crisis for the scout. Not many people really mention this.

Nick

One interesting difference between Eren and Reiner in terms of the atrocities they've committed is that Reiner genuinely believed the Eldians were devils at first when he attacked. Eren is doing this to protect Paradis of course, but he knows that the people in Marley aren't all bad. He even said so last episode. "but then I crossed the sea, slept under the same roof" Eren has got to have some pretty serious motivations and drive to do this despite understanding that they're all only human beings.

Nick
>>62013373

What I mean is, at this point it's not really about revenge. To him, attacking Marley is all he believes he can do considering Paradis is hated worldwide. That doesn't make it any better really but it's still interesting!

Katie Barnes

Your take and opinions on this episode and Eren's actions were so refreshing to hear!

Anonymous

I'm glad you're looking at this with a very nuanced perspective. While watching this season there are so many people willing to write off Eren's actions because "We've been rooting for him for so long I'm not going to stop now". I think without being able to look back and reflect on whether his actions are just and or moral is a major part of this show.

Aura Y

I think I agree with pretty much all the commentary this episode. It's hard to say Eren is redeemable after all the terrible things he's done this episode. I can definitely understand the Eldians of Paradis' perspective, it's pretty much the whole world against them, but it doesn't make them heroes either. This is probably the most controversial season of AoT simply due to the differences of philosophies on these actions. But I still the show does a good job at making you feel ambiguous about whether or not you should be happy about the actions that just transpired. Look forward to what you have to say about the rest of the season!

Anonymous

I get the idealistic view and everything, but I really don't think it's fair to hold them too strongly to it when the literally the entire world hates them and wants them dead. If Paradis didn't attack, then Marley would and they would be as good as dead. I've thought about it and can't see a single way to resolve the conflict peacefully when negotiations can't start because they're not even viewed as humans. In 99% of situations one should definitely take the high road. But the high road for the people of Paradis is to die when the world comes for them rather than commit atrocities. I guess you could make the argument that is the more moral choice, but I can't blame them for simply wanting to survive. To me, Eren is no longer motivated by revenge at all. His conversation with Reiner proved that. The only thing that drives him at this point is securing safety for his people. Whether or not he's going too far for the sake of that is another thing, but he's very clearly not the same Eren that was filled with hate and rage for the past 3 seasons.

Gabriel Ribeiro

Incredible how this show went on air close to a very relevant time concerning this Cycle of Hatred. Even though I understand you cannot talk about it since its political

Alex Begley

I almost completely agree with what said on Eren and the morality of this situation. While understanding why Eren chooses to attack, I don't support it at all. And I don't really buy-in to the idea of him waiting either. He and Willy had both already made up they're minds by both assuming what the other was going to do. Willy believed Paradis was going to attack in response to the warrior mission and so set a trap to gain support from the other nations. Eren assumed that Marley was going to attack them and so set a surprise attack first. Neither gave any real consideration that the other would pursue peace and thus played into each other's hands to a tee. Willy called for war just as Eren had expected and then attacked just as Willy expected, sealing support for the war. It's all cause and effect.

Anonymous

Even after rewatching this episode, the sounds of the ODM gear still gave me chills. Eren saying “Now or never, Mikasa” was such a satisfying moment too. And, although there’s tragedy in every action displayed, Porco’s ignorance in asking how these humans can fight titans was such a fulfilling moment for the audience. Like, we spent a long long time getting to know the scouts and growing with them; we saw many of their deaths to the hands of titans. So now, to see that they have the upper hand this time and to watch them somewhat show off their skills just feels really good. It’s a terrible situation everyone’s in, but it’s fulfilling seeing the scouts succeed on enemy territory like this.

ArmdVctr
>>62013756

But that's a false Dichotomy though. There are never just two choices. You don't need to be an idealist to know that both Marley and Eren are in the wrong. AoT is cautionary

Anonymous

Also, fun fact: I think the main reason why technology in the walls was so underdeveloped was because they spent a lot of their money and resources designing weapons for the military. In this episode, the scouts switched out their blades for a gun design we’ve never seen them use before, so they came well adapted for a new type of battle -- one against humans. Overall, this episode made me so excited for what's to come. The anticipation is overflowing!!

Alex Begley
>>62013860

Also, while we may not be able to necessarily speak from experience as to how we would feel in a situation like this, that's exactly why we watch shows. It's a mini-simulation for us to see how we could act and then decide whether we think that's right or that it's wrong and we need to think up a different solution.

ArmdVctr

It was so nice to see Porco pee his pants with the idea of normal human attacking him. I thought he had Ymir's memories?

a. tree

I was looking forward to this episode for the killer soundtrack (speaking of parallels to the first two episodes, the score from when Mikasa was 1v1ing the Warhammer is a rearranged version of the score from the Warriors' first attack on Shiganshina), but also especially for the scene where Mikasa shares her disappointment in Eren. We're already starting to see the groundwork for a difference in opinion among the Scouts — we have Jean yelling at a group of overzealous recruits for causing excessive destruction, and even with Sasha, while it hurt to see her killing humans who were just trying to defend their homes, it was heartening in a melancholy way to see the soul-crushing look of guilt on her face when Sasha stared into the eyes of the little girl whose role models she just shot down right in front of her. Sasha and Jean aren't here, it seems, out of hate or just to cause destruction. They're here just to get Eren home alive because the second Marley kills him here, the militaries of the world can freely raze Paradis to the ground by morning. But then we have people like Floch "I'm-sick-and-tired-of-being-a-side-character" Forster saying it is just and in fact *good* to blow up homes with (Eldian, not that it would be better if they were Marleyan) civilians in them, and saying explicitly that it is Eren who inspired him to this way of thinking. Mikasa's placed herself most firmly in what I would so far call the Sasha/Jean camp, but there's even more depth with her. This is the person she trusts most in the world doing something that she feels is unequivocally evil. Mikasa was right there with Eren, trying to pull that rock off of their mother. The two of them WERE Udo. Now she's watching him do something she never would've imagined, launching rocks onto someone else's loved ones. We see her pain in the tears in her eyes, in her pleading with Eren to both literally and metaphorically "come home." My favorite Mikasa moments are the ones like these, where even if she's not necessarily standing against Eren (though in this case she is), she is vocal about and takes charge based on her principles and values. The show tends to keep her on the back burner until they need her to do something cool like flip through the air and 1v1 the most difficult Titan opponent in the show, but she also has some moments like this where she takes a stand or takes charge and shows leadership qualities and a strong backbone. I was super glad to see how much you appreciated her saying that — what do you think Mikasa might do now, or at least what are you hoping to see from her going forth? On a completely different note, where the hell is Zeke?

Yusuf

Marley and the rest of the world were going to attack Paradis even if Eren never attacked Marley.

Anonymous

I have very conflicting emotions about Eren. It is obvious that he is inflicting cruelty back and continuing the cycle of violence here. But in the last episode, his talk with Reiner where he acknowledged that they are not the bad guys and people in the walls are the same as people in Marley is important. I think he is not as blind as you think, and I think it is not even about justification of his actions. In his position, as much as we'd like to think that idealistically you always have a choice, he has very limited choices. And he chose to fight for his freedom, survival and the survival of his people. I think in the last weeks you've been talking a lot about how do you best navigate a cruel world. I agree with you that Erwin was the BEST example to how you do that, but what do you do when you can't do that? Do you just not take action because it compromises your ideals ? I'd like to see you explore less than ideal choices one has to make/ how does one navigate a situation where all of your options are bad. Like you said it is easy for us to take the moral high ground or point to the ideal way of doing things but it feels like kinda avoiding the realistic side of what the show is portraying here.

themightyabe

As much as I understand your position on Eren, I feel as though it cannot go without saying that the only reason why he is acting this way now is directly linked to the conflict in S1-3 at the hands of Marley. You mentioned that past injustices can create more cyclical injustices, but I think it’s also important to understand who had the power in this scenario. Is it right that Paradis has committed this terrorist attack? No. Are Eren or any of the other Paradisians heroes after this battle? No. Are the Eldians living in Marley sympathetic? Yes. Does Marley hold the responsibility for creating the environment for this attack to happen? Absolutely. The reason that Marley is solely responsible has to do with what you said about choice. At one point you mentioned that everyone has a choice (or something to that effect). You also mentioned at the end that there’s a difference between commenting on something fictional and thinking about it in a more “realistic way” (for lack of a better term). I think that’s one of the toughest things about this last season. It shows how freedom is a lie. True freedom isn’t something that any character has ever achieved in this show. They’re all “born into this world”. Their circumstances (Reiner’s family, Eren’s mother, the threat of Marley, the threat of the Titans) shape them in ways that make certain choices far less reasonable than others. If this were a feel good shonen, the show would have ended with all the Titans being defeated followed by a beach episode and a retirement epilogue. But because the world is filled with conflict, Mikasa has to choose between training or waiting to die. Reiner must choose between coming back to his mother as a Warrior or die. When faced with death, all means justify the ends. And in Eren’s case, if the Marley has branded you public enemy number 1 after they created a world that orphaned you and destroyed everything you ever loved. Of course all of this contradicts with my personal beliefs; it is always wrong to take a human life. But (as you mentioned earlier) how would any of us act if this were our life? Btw, this is why I love this show. It’s like an antithesis to FMA Brotherhood and sparks such interesting discussions.

ArmdVctr
>>62014528

Thay doesn't excuse evil actions. If you have no principles yoi have no future.

Xylen

Like you, I breathed such a sigh of relief when I saw this episode and heard Mikasa say "Eren. Come home." I was so worried that everyone was just going to be in support of this massacre. Then Mikasa pleads with Eren and talks about the severity of his actions, and Jean mentions that there's a standing order to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. Phew. Obviously still not a clear-cut situation, but there's some nuance on the Paradis side of this battle. Floch though... "The only things here are enemies and places they live." A worrying mindset, to say the least.

KJ Gaona
>>62014660

I agree with this comment. I have nothing more to add.

agoodwintv
>>62014046

It is pretty amazing how many conflicting emotions there are at once. For me it was like... oh no, the scouts are really falling into something weird here... but also, DAMN RIGHT WATCH OUT FOR THE SCOUTS

Aaron Ong

Be aware, the topic of Eren and his motivations is very controversial in the AOT community (as you've probably already noticed). Not to say you shouldn't discuss them, just wanted to warn you as some topics in Season 4 can be cause for heated debate, and I've even seen some people spoiling the show out of anger towards a differing opinion. Now that that is out of the way, I wanted to say how great your perspective is so far. It usually takes a few episode for people to recognize Eren's atrocities, and even then those people tend to stay on his side regardless. I don't believe anyone should be on any sides, honestly, because both sides are capable of greatness and terror. Like you said, this show is a perspective on hate cycles, as well as nuance, yet a majority tends to be stuck on the idea of sides drilled into their heads from other shows (I suffered the same issue for a little bit in this show.) Mikasa's reaction was such a breathe of fresh air, and we even see that the Scouts themselves are having conflicting reactions towards these events, as seen with Jean and Floch's conversation. If only Erwin was here...

agoodwintv
>>62014360

Huge gamechanger for Mikasa! I'm really glad I watched her OVA because it added something to these scenes for me. Going forward, it seems like this is just the beginning of an ever-widening rift between them, which is really interesting because Mikasa is largely defined by her proximity (emotional and physical) to Eren. So that's going to tear her apart, and either she will turn on Eren which will be crazy, or she will go along with Eren at great personal cost to herself.

ArmdVctr

Alot of Eren fans believe that Erwin would have supported Eren.

Ramon Cintron
>>62014359

He chooses to ignore them and just looks down on everyone else so he's a total moron and probably the worst person to inherit that titan since he doesnt think about the dangers others might pose to him and that titan is squishy AF

Nick

I honestly think it will take a while before a strong consensus is formed on the ending. It's very divided. I don't want to spoil anything of course so I will refrain from mentioning details. I'm personally satisfied with the ending, but I also understand and respect other viewpoints.

Nick
>>62015258

I think Erwin would have half supported him. Erwin would have supported the motivation behind protecting Paradis, and he would have likely accepted that casualties are inevitable; but I also think he would think about it far more tactfully It depends. We'll never know, because we never got to see Erwin discover the truth. That revelation could drastically have changed his perspective.

Anonymous

One thing I like to point out that hasn't been said as much as the people who I think are the most responsible for this entire mess is "The Tybur Family" They knew this whole history about king Fritz for years and never said a dam thing. They knowingly let Marley Subjugate their own people and let marley pass policies that let them use eldians as war fodder and to continue countless human rights atrocities to them. It wasn't until they found out that Eren gained the power of the founding titan that they decided to come clean and use this information to frame it in a way to make it seem like they were doing the Eldians a big favor by coming clean to the world. Becuase lets say Eren didn't attack you think Marley will let the Eldians be free knowing it wasn' some made up Marlein hero that freed the marley but an eldian? Hell no! The Tybur Family rules Marley within the shadows as they had mentioned multiple times they let Marley down this path. To be frank this ENTIRE anime could have been easily never existed if the tybur family stepped in and told marley sending child solders to go get the founding titan was a bad idea and they could have sent perhaps a diplomatic convoy? One Could argue if it wasn't for events of Episode 1 of the show Eren Might not even have the powers of the founding titan.

Anonymous

Ah yes, the episode that killed my sympathy for/turned me against Eren...But hey, Levi and Mikasa are here XD

agoodwintv
>>62014652

I think you do the best you know how to do and avoid things you know to be wrong in the expectation of a better outcome. That doesn't mean perfection, but it means a commitment to the process of learning and fine-tuning one's moral compass and not shying away from the responsibility of doing what we feel is right even when that's very difficult. If all options are bad, the BEST option is to do what you feel is right, because that is a good in itself. I actually think the dichotomy the characters are experiencing in the show is in many ways LESS real, simply because life is so complex and there are infinitely many ways to go.

ArmdVctr

I would think he would be more pragmatic as well. Hardcore Eren fans can't even accept that Gabi is a prallel to young Eren.

a. tree
>>62015730

For me, even though I think the destruction is absolutely the wrong thing to do, Eren was actually not totally gone in my eyes at this point when I watched this episode. And I think part of it was that I didn't have the same understanding that I do now as to the meaning of what Reiner said to Eren in the previous episode, and that Eren acknowledged that he did have a choice before doing what he did. I had hoped that the show would take the route of Eren coming to realize that he did have the power to change things and seeking a different route, but looking back episode 5 demonstrated that he does realize this and chooses not to do so. So anyway, I personally did still have hope for Eren not being completely irredeemable at this point. Sure hope we don't learn any background information in the next couple episodes that completely dashes that hope...? Hey, at least Levi and Mikasa are here

a. tree
>>62015636

Right! I don't think that the Tybur family could have completely ended the conflict and the Titan issue. As long as some humans can turn into Titans and others cannot, there will always be people who fear the other group and this will cause issues. I personally don't know if sending a diplomatic envoy at the point of S1E1 would have done anything. But like you said, what they COULD do is at least mitigate a lot of the death/evil done along the way. Like maybe the world's military powers would be a lot more balanced if Willy or one of his ancestors tapped General Calvi on the shoulder and said 'hey, read a history book, imperialism is bad.' And maybe we can have Eldians living separately from other peoples as a precaution without also perpetuating the narrative that they all deserve death.

War2244

Eren slowly became more and more depressed as the series went on. At this point he's like dead inside. He doesn't even flinch when Mikasa brings up how he did the same shit as Reiner and Bertolt. This could be a coping mechanism for him though, like shutting his emotions off cause he feels there is no other way.

War2244

I agree that someone will have to forgive instead of going for revenge, but what if you go for the forgive option and the enemy still comes for you. For instance, paradise could try to make peace and forgive Marley for the shit they did and yet Marley and the world would still come for their life.

a. tree
>>62016567

I don't even think forgiveness is necessary. I think that anyone who takes a rational view of it could see that this is a conflict that, as it is escalates, will just continue in circles until there is either some boiling point or mutual self-destruction. And so I think that that view, the rational view, is going to play into the second part of your point. People have to make certain choices like the hypothetical decision of Paradis to hold out the olive branch, and Marley also has to make the choice to accept it. Neither of those two things are set in stone to happen, but I think that it's very clear that that is the best outcome, if a simplified one. The issue is that people get too deep into viewing from the lens of their own side and what's going to happen in the short term, and don't view it from a more top-down, rational light.

a. tree

All of the points you bring up in this episode plus the comments just get me really excited for the conversation of Episode 8. It's one of my favorite episodes of the show and I think besides the element of it being a plot point, it was a major turning point for where I stood on a lot of characters.

Anna Lena Ciplajevs

I love porcos perspective here. He’s never met the people of paradis, all he knows are marcels and Ymir’s memories which he hasn’t seen many. He can’t fathom how these people would try to attack him, a titan, head on. Ironically Marley, by sending more and more titans to the island, made them develop the weapons and skills they need to defeat titans. And now that we see this directed towards a group of people we’re, after this season, somewhat sympathetic to, it’s horrifying and scary. We can now imagine what it’s like to be an enemy of Levi Ackermann, just like Hanji said once in the Ilses Notebook ova

Usbaldo Balderas

Bro, I've mostly been lurking you for the whole thing I've been following you, but I love your self reflections and your thorough analysis much better than any other reactor, not just for the entertainment factor of a reactor, but your introspections are fucking worth it, cuz you always are able to relate it to real life situations, Love it bro, keep up the amazing work.

Anonymous

Watching Sasha snipe the guards was a hard moment, but at least she didn't even consider shooting Gabi. A low bar but hey, this is AoT...

Stephen husuc

I find interesting the similarities of this story and WWII america and Japan.... A brainwashed society that worships a king they believe to be a god outnumbered by the world... an island ready to fight to the last man leading suicidal charges they believe to be honorable... Its interesting to say the least... Not to mention the similarity of the attack at pearl harbor that broke a very long peace for the American public on the homeland who never thought such a thing was possible... The resulting war bringing us to not only fire bomb cities of civilians (that killed far more people than the nuclear weapons) but also using nukes to break their will to fight at the end of the war ... The case can be made that an invasion of mainland Japan would have caused even more casualties than we caused but that's how the cycle goes... Its honestly sad and thier isn't really a satisfying answer or enemy at the end of the day... Just a bunch of kids sent to fight each other

Clément

What we need in a time like this, it's some famous Scar speech about revenge and cycle of hatred.

Stephen husuc

It's also interesting to consider that as a response to Japan's conduct in war we justified racist actions such as putting American citizens who happened to have japanese lineage in internment camps without trial... Its so strange this anime really pulls at alot of things having to do with WWII, from the clearly German culture and names, to the japanese and american relations as nations... It's such an interesting interpretation of war

armando

hey i know this doesn’t change anything with the actual actions taken, but assuming eren believes he is ‘justified’ or ‘right’ or really anything that suggests he’s better than reiner was back in the day is a little misguided. At the end of the last episode, reiner breaks down and admits it was his own selfish choice that led him to keep going and attack the walls that day (in the background willy begins declaring war) and eren smiles sadly and says ‘i was right, we are the same’. He KNOWS it’s his choice and isn’t trying to frame it in a way where’s he’s better than the other side ‘i’m the bad guy’. Such a key moment in their dynamic and why they’re two sides of the same coin but i’d love to hear your thoughts on it!

armando

I was also wondering how you reconcile your view on erwin as a hero with the actions he ordered at stohess in s1. you talk a lot about the people he sent to their deaths and how they made the choice to join the scouts and i completely agree on that. the civilians in stohess had that choice robbed from them by erwin and his plan. i’d even argue what he did there is worse than what eren is doing here because the ‘gain’ is so minimal compared to what eren is gaining here and the atrocity they both committed is pretty equal in scale. i love erwin so much but while he did give up on his selfish dream at the very end, that does not remove him from how awful some of the things he did really was or how truly grey he is morally. Always love to hear your thoughts 🙏🏼

Darby

The thing about it is...the scouts are just as brainwashed as the citizens on Marley. The Marleyans were about to do the same exact thing to Paradis citizens but Eren brought the fight to them. There is no right or wrong in this world.

mr_wordcraft

"Physically they look great, this is just very upsetting." - Season 4 in a nutshell xD

Anonymous

Risking sacrifice for a chance of something greater is definitely the heroic thing. but i can't justify telling someone they should risk the death of their entire society because it's the moral high ground. Marley was coming for them in full force. I totally see Erin as evil in this. but I understand where he is coming from and I can't judge the choices he made.

ComicalSkate

Random question. Why do you always have the right ear of your headphones off your ear? Does that not effect the sound quality? I would hate to hear the audio less on one side. Would break immersion and intensity and such.

ComicalSkate

"Who's gonna be the hero to break the cycle?" That, Sir Goodwin, would be the greatest king to ever live, King Karl Fritz! He tried to break the cycle, but then silly Marley wanted some resources and then silly Eren wanted to kill all the Titans lol

a. tree
>>62037155

Karl Fritz of the walls is probably one of the worst dudes to ever exist, in my opinion. He knew very well that bringing the Eldians within the walls wouldn't do a thing to end the conflict; he said himself that he knew what he did did not atone for his predecessors' destruction of the world and that the outside world would eventually come to the island. This is especially true considering that the last thing he said to the public was that he basically had a WMD in the form of a million colossal Titans; none of the nations of the world can be expected to let that sit, especially considering that his empire had been using their Titans to dominate the world for nearly two millennia up to that point and there is plenty of reason to fear those Titans becoming active one day. Fritz knew that the Eldian problem was going to continue, he just had no interest of his own in taking an active role in seeking a resolution to it during his life time. Instead he abdicated his responsibility to right the wrongs of his dynasty, or at least to properly ensure an end to the conflict that isn't 'I am going to tell the world my island can kill them at any time, and then sit here with my people all ignorant of what the situation is while the world brainstorms how to safely rid of this threat.' All he wanted was to enjoy a false peace until he died, not caring at all what happened to his people or the world after that. What Fritz did was basically drag the conflict on for an extra century and subject poor people who did nothing wrong to 100 years of fear and torment. I'd go so far as to say that if Fritz truly believed that Eldians being wiped out was the only way to save the world from the fear of the Titans, then it's cowardly and irresponsible for him to have the power to rid Titans from the world yet kick the can down the world to another generation that knows nothing.

Nick
>>62016900

yep yep agree with this comment. All episodes involving anything mentioned in that episode are my personal favorites of the season because of how deep it dives

Nick
>>62019723

That still counts for something. This is war. A uniform does matter and does make a difference at least imo.

Anonymous

I dont think the eldians in the military had a choice not to join.

R'Mani Leavell

Alright, here me out. I get that Isayama wanted to show that neither side is good and both sides can be considered evil at different points in the show, but I kind of feel like the marlyeans are more evil than the eldians of paradise island. Karl Fritz isolated most of his people inside the walls all for the sake of peace. He knew of the horrible things the eldian empire did in the past, but he knew that at some point the cycle had to end, and thats what he wanted to do. Yea he told the world that if they attacked his island he would unleash the rumbling, but even the Tyburs, who controlled the military knew that this was an empty promise. The marleans sent pure titans to paradise long before Grisha took the founding titan and still plotted to to take the founding titan years before they knew Eren had it. No one in the walls knew of the things their ancestors did, and to them I'm sure they wouldn't even have cared. They just wanted to live free from the walls in peace. So for that I understand why Eren feels he has no other choice, I understand that it is bad and a lot of innocent people died because of him, but at this point in time, I'm on his side.

Anonymous

Right, I don't get the sense that I SHOULD be rooting for anyone. But you gotta wonder what Eren saw when he kissed Historia's hand that caused him to grimace. That's the last we saw of him before season 4, if I remember correctly. Like did what he see affect the way he is now? Was it the future? Is that why he feels like he has no choice? This show HAS brought up the idea of fate, particularly in Mikasa's OVA. I'm too afraid to read the manga at this point because I don't want to know the answer even though I'll find out eventually. But if he can see the future, the whole thing makes it less applicable to real life. Anyway, how many titans can Eren fit into his collection? Gotta catch em all!

minimonie__

this episode marks the journey of 'yayy's and 'nooo's for me haha

Derrick C. Shields
>>62044412

Marely itself is much worse than Paradis in my opinion. But that's not really the equivalency that's set up, I don't think. The obvious comparison is Eren to Reiner (and friends). Eren is - as far as we are aware right now - fully cognizant of his actions, not brainwashed or gaslit in any way and clearly understands AT LEAST slightly more about the situation than most others because of his dad's memories and... whatever happened at the medal ceremony. Reiner was a kid who was brainwashed and not only encouraged, but implicitly threatened to carry out Marley's orders. Eren knew what he was doing, especially the part about carrying out the attack in the Eldian slum. There was a way of carrying out this attack which still maintained element of surprise and minimized civilian casualties. Eren seems to have planned it so as to MAXIMIZE them. I'll give you three guesses what the name for those people are. Hint: they're striking *terror* into people... Anyway, even though I think morally, Eren was way out of line (this is one case where I agree with the platitude of "there's ALWAYS a choice"), I really do think that it would be super interesting to examine Eren's actions in a historical sense. Like, any living Eldians in 150 years would see Eren as a hero, and why wouldn't they? They likely had little to no connection to any innocent civilians who died in this attack, so if Eren's plan to free Eldia from Marley supremacy succeeds, to them Eren would be a freedom fighter. Reiner, on the other hand, the brainwashed lackey of Marley standing in the way of peace; a sad case, sure, but a necessary enemy for Eren to kill. Eren could be seen as a hero historically, but still a reprehensible villain to us; we wouldn't be expected to root for him, but the story could still present him as just, and it would tie right in to Kruger's comment about how anyone can be a God or a Devil. I guess I'm saying that there's definitely the potential for interesting moral subjectivism here, but the way the show is currently posing it, Eren is a willing terrorist (oops, I gave it away) who "had no choice", which isn't even true, so...

Brimmy

ur description confused the hell out of me so i went and asked a friend they also didn't know and when it got there i was like OH REMEMBER THAT ONE GUY?! and when i went googling for it i got manga spoilers for gabi and then silly me KEPT LOOKING AND GOT TOO MANY SPOILERS LMAO

JDalsing
>>62066077

Thanks for not including them! Sorry you got spoiled though <3

Jonas
>>62015876

She isn't though! the parallel stops at "family dies, wanting revenge"; she isn't really set up as a parallel if you've watched the rest of the season.

agoodwintv
>>62029904

The Stohess incident is probably Erwin's most questionable decision for me, but I think what makes it different from what Eren does here is that Eren deliberately and knowingly kills civilians whereas Erwin attempts to capture Annie peacefully and it happens to go wrong. You might argue that he should have known that, and he probably did, but it's not quite on the same level for me.

agoodwintv
>>62032877

Would you also say that everything action is equally right or wrong as every other action? I don't think we need to arrive at an "absolute right" or an "absolute wrong" to have better visions of morality.

agoodwintv
>>62036338

The issue is that I need to hear myself talk, otherwise my speech gets extra slurred. I can still hear just fine though

Maia Brodsky

I love how it always comes back to Erwin with you. Erwin did lie, but it was more to himself than to anyone else. He never deceived his soldiers, except on the subject of his own true motivation. Still, he never lied about their odds of survival, so you're totally right on that point.

Maia Brodsky

"I feel terrible about Udo." No mention of Zophia. :'(

Maia Brodsky

Ok I gotta ask a question: Do you love or care for Eren as a character? It's weird, because while I agree with everything you're saying about how what he's doing is wrong, that has been the case for so many characters I love. I never stopped loving Reiner after he revealed his identity as the Armored titan. I weep for Berthold's fate. So when Eren pushes me to the point of considering him the villain, I still can't help but care for and mourn for him. I'm wondering if you feel the same, or at least understand what I'm getting at. His life is as much of a tragedy as anyone else in this story. Perhaps even more than anyone else.

Spizami
>>62148120

There is no doubt that Eren has started to go down a dark path but I still see him as just a child. My heart aches for this poor boy who should never have had the weight of the world on his shoulders. He was already a very troubled boy long before the power of titans was forced upon him.

Anonymous

Small note: Eren did not declare war. It was Willy who did it and Eren was the first to strike

Anonymous

I'd like to say that Sasha, Jean, Connie, Mikasa and all of old-core Scouts didn't attack any civilians, they only attacked military. And after Willy's declaration of war and Eren's response to it there is no other choice than a full-commit offensive until they wish to be destroyed

Anonymous
>>62045576

Last time we have seen Eren in S3 in the sea and in the Credits scene me thinks