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Nina coming into our lives was interesting, and promised to keep us all busy for the foreseeable future. However, I still had a job to do, and the meeting with the rest of the War Sentinels was just around the corner.

Literally.

“Auri, can I get a dozen cookies, a loaf of your tastiest bread, and a stick of butter?” I think I was Auri’s first customer in her new bakery.

Rows upon rows of fairly basic goods lined her shelves, but to be fair, she’d just opened up for the first time. Burning flames were above each one, giving a price. The kitchen roared in the back, Auri effortlessly keeping a dozen different confections in various stages of cooking at once.

How the fuck she’d gotten a spot, supplies, a kitchen, and the required logistics chains in a few days, even with Night pulling some strings was astonishing.

Especially the location! There had to have been a working store here just a few days ago, what happened to it?!

The sheer speed boggled the mind, and I put it out of my head.

Tasty food was here, for sale, and Auri had a business. One that she was taking seriously.

“Brrrpt!”

I spluttered in outrage.

“Really!?” I protested.

Taking way too seriously.

“Brpt.”

One of Auri’s [Mage Hands] poked me in the chest, and made the ‘pay up’ motion. I sighed, fishing the coins out of my pouch, and handing them over.

“Thief! Scoundrel!” I protested.

“Brrpt!!”

“I knew Amber was a bad influence on you!” I shook my fist at Auri as she neatly packed everything up for me with a legion of hands.

“Brrrrrrrpt!”

“Yes, of course I’ll tell everyone where I got it from… if it’s good!” I teased Auri with one last parting shot before I left her store.

“BRRRRRRRPT!” A fireball chased me out, and I legged it.

The Celestial Supper was just around the corner, and the place was fancy. They were leaning hard into the Celestial theme, pillars of stars on the marble columns, the moons and sun over the entry arch. I went inside, discovering that the entire ceiling was an illusion. An inky black sky, scattered with stars, with various planets and suns slowly drifting through the vast cosmos.

Good taste.

I realized as I entered that I had no idea where in here we were meeting. Fortunately, the place had staff. I waved one down, noting that I seemed to be a little underdressed for the place.

I got a Look. I probably deserved it.

“May I be of assistance?” He asked, giving my bag a dirty look. It obviously had someone else’s food in it, and it was probably a little insulting to walk in here with it.

Sharing the glory of Auri’s baking would make it all worth it.

“Hi! Yeah, is War Sentinel Tyrannus here?”

He sniffed at me. Actually sniffed!

Oooooooh, I was going to have fun.

“He is currently in a private room, and has asked not to be disturbed.”

I grinned at him, channeling my inner shark. Sure, it was teeny-tiny, but I was pretty sure it had a good predatory grin.

“Yeah, see, I’m supposed to be there. Oh! Let me introduce myself.”

I stuck out my hand.

“War Sentinel Dawn, pleased to meet you.”

He brightened up.

“Ah! Dawn, a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I’d heard rumors of a new War Sentinel, and was wondering when you’d arrive. Please, right this way.”

I was a little taken aback. I was half expecting to go through the whole usual mess of ‘yes I am’ ‘no you’re not’, and I’d planned to shortcut that all by asking him to ‘just skip to the end where you poke your head in and ask’, but…

Well, I guess if this was a regular hangout for the War Sentinels, the staff here would be a little more in-tune with what was going on with us than usual.

He brought me back to a private room, and knocked on the door.

“Enter!” A booming voice commanded, and I boldly stepped into the smoky room. [The World Around Me] showed Arachne’s ever-present threads terminating at the edge of this room, the Sentinel giving us some privacy for our chat.

Seven people sat around a table strewn with cards and dice, plates of bloody snacks near everyone.

Right. Fuck. Vampires, they liked their food bloody, not baked. How did I forget that??

I recognized most of them. Tyrannus was the highest leveled of them, sitting at the center of the table. He’d mentioned he was off-rotation during the Sentinel meeting where I’d met everyone, but that didn’t seem to extend to the weekly card game. Flood had been with Arachne when she was dishing out [Loremaster] knowledge, the woman’s hair half-black and half-white. Depths had also been at the meeting, and hadn’t said much, but she looked intense. I recognized Calm, but I didn’t think I’d seen the other three yet.

Well! Time for a good first impression! I’d half-laughed Iona out of the room when she suggested I just ‘be myself’, and gotten a decent first line out of her.

The rest was up to me.

“Hi! I’m Dawn! Nice to meet you all in a more casual setting. I brought some goodies! My companion recently opened a store nearby, and I figured I’d bribe you all. Forgive me for being a complete idiot and forgetting the blood!”

Welp.

I had started off strong, and promptly veered off track.

Tyrannus gave a boisterous laugh.

“Well met! Dawn, sit, sit! Anything you want here today’s on me!”

There was an obviously open chair, and I sat down.

“Thank you! It’s so nice to meet you all like this! I’ll be honest, I’m still a little overwhelmed by it all.”

Flood gave me an arched eyebrow.

“Proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance.” She starkly reminded me, a direct jab at my food offerings.

The other Sentinels looked interested in what I’d say to that.

“Shaking down equipment and methods in low stakes environments is how we correct and learn.” I bit back. “I doubt anyone here can say they’ve never made a mistake.”

To my surprise, Flood grinned at me.

“Good to see you’ve got some spine! Introductions all around, I suppose? Tyrannus, would you like to start?”

“Sure! I’m War Sentinel Tyrannus, and arguably the most senior War Sentinel.” He said. I tilted my head at that.

“Arguably?” I asked.

He threw his head back and laughed.

“Arguably! You’re around now!”

I chuckled at that, and waved my hand at him.

“No no, I have no idea what I’m doing here, I’m not going to claim seniority on anyone. Unless it’s really convenient!”

My joke landed well with the crowd.

“Necessity is the mother of pulling rank!” One of the Sentinels I didn’t know yet said. He was the one smoking, although his eyes didn’t reflect an Ash element. Possibly a secondary or tertiary element - or he just liked smoking, as noxious as the habit was.

“I’m the ‘classic’ War Sentinel.” Tyrannus continued. “All my elements and classes are geared for it. Mist. Poison. Fossil. I hit morale and slowly kill lots of people. Blinding, disorienting fogs for our foes, followed up by poison-infused bone dinosaurs stomping through. While the enemy is confused, lost, and being murdered by the bones of ancient tyrannosaurus rexes, the Fifth legion moves in and mops up, easy as pie. I’m far weaker in an individual fight than most people my level, but I got the title Tyrannus as a combination of my signature bone constructs, combined with the terror I instill.”

A little bone construct of a T-rex was assembled on the table by Tyrannus, and two smaller armies of people were made by one of the other Sentinels here. One looking all shiny, armed like the Legions, and the other a mass of barbarians. The two ‘armies’ clashed, the bone T-rex went through the barbarians, and they were routed, running screaming as the ‘legions’ crushed them.

“Cool! Who’s doing the illusions?” I asked.

One of the Sentinels I hadn’t met yet waved his hand.

“That’s me!” He volunteered. “War Sentinel Legion. I am the Seventh Legion, hence the title.”

I leaned forward with a grin.

“Okay, that’s a totally cool statement. How are you the Seventh?”

He rubbed his hands together.

“Brilliance and Mirage are my only relevant classes and elements. Third one’s for me. Most of the Seventh is an illusion in the field. People quickly figure out they’re fighting illusions, which is when the blades start to become ‘real’. By that point, it turns into a massacre. An illusionary army, whose blades are real?”

I shuddered as I imagined trying to fight such a thing.

“And of course your team is hidden with you… or do you disguise yourself as just another one of the soldiers?” I asked.

He winked and tapped the side of his nose.

“That’d be telling, yeah?”

All the while the soldiers had regrouped, the barbarians against the legion again. The barbarians charged into the legions, getting a confused look on their face as their weapons ‘missed’ everyone, comically scratching their heads.

Then the ‘legions’ started hacking them apart.

“Why do you bother with the illusion of an army, when you could just send a whirling mass of Brilliance at people and be done with it?” I asked.

“People know to run away from that, or could figure out how to counter what I’m doing.” Legion bluntly replied. “That, and one person standing outside a city is easy, the solution clear. An entire ghostly Legion setting up siege weapons? An army filled with unkillable people? That gets people working along different lines entirely. It’s far, far, far more complicated than what I’m saying. For example, one member of my support team is an Ooze expert, who makes a lot of the blows other people make on the soldiers look and feel real, which makes them coming back and hitting all the scarier. I could literally spend all day talking about different things I do, but that defeats the point of a quick introduction!”

“Sounds good! I might have some Mirage-related questions for you later. A member of my team just picked up a kitsune as her [Squire]...”

“Yes, I’d love to compare training notes at some point!” Legion said.

Tyrannus gently coughed.

“I think all of us are going to want some training notes from Dawn.” He said. “That’s half the reason we have these meetings.” He explained to me. “There aren’t a ton of us, and trading resources and training is valuable. Let’s save the swaps and offers until introductions are done?”

He looked around, quickly getting buy-in from everyone. I nodded as well. No reason to rock the boat, or avoid going with the flow.

“Sentinel Flood. We’ve met.” The woman gruffly introduced herself. “I’m a [Strategist] and buffer. Completely useless without an army to support. I’ve got a thousand tricks up my sleeve.”

Legion had team barbarian against team legion again. The two armies clashed, only for the barbarians to get flooded out.

“Story! Story! Story!” One of the last Sentinels I didn’t know yet started to chant, her voice quickly picked up by the rest of the Sentinels.

Flood sighed, rolled her eyes, and crossed her arms.

“Fine. FINE!” She grumped. “Title’s Flood. Third Legion. I had a brief moment when I was a Legata where diverting rivers into our enemies was my go-to trick. Did it one time too many, got promoted as Flood when raised to War Sentinel.”

The Sentinel in question who’d started the ‘story’ chant loudly booed, and Flood gave her the evil eye.

“Well, what about your title story, War Sentinel Stacked?” She pointedly glared.

“There’s no way.” I said, eyeing her. Sentinel Stacked was, well… stacked.

She glowered and crossed her arms under her generous bust.

“It’s War Sentinel Queen, and you know it. Titan had a terrible naming sense, may the gods look after his soul, and we all know it.”

I wasn’t a social savant, but I knew when to keep my mouth shut.

The woman sighed, picked up the deck, and shuffled it with impossible nimbleness and dexterity.

“War Sentinel Queen, formerly Stacked. Second Legion. The long and the short of it is - we deal with cards. We’ve got a half-dozen meta skills that lets us slowly charge up different cards with powerful effects, and the longer we’re at it, the bigger they get. What’s fun is the longer we are between conflicts, the bigger the cards get, and the more people know our stockpile’s growing. It’s getting to the point where us simply showing up will get people to leave. Only real limit on how high we can go is Guardian intervention. Manadhion, The Nightmare, gave us a real talking-to at one point and destroyed half our stockpile.”

She shuddered at that.

“Haven’t charged anything up that high ever since, but they seem to be fine with us having more, weaker cards. Title’s Queen, both on the card suit in half the world, and because at one point we ended up forming our own little monarchy after an Immortal War.”

She chuckled at that.

“Arachne was pissed. We had to do a whole song and dance to get our people accepting the fact that we were getting absorbed into another country, which was a mess and a half. Got a bunch of neat songs out of it though! Half of them are still sung.”

That sounded like a story and a half! Also, I wasn’t going to ask about Titan. I might ask Night or Arachne. Sounded like he was giving out titles at some point? I was a little confused about Queen’s operation though. Was that her entire team doing stuff? That was an interesting way to look at things - it wasn’t her, it was her and her entire team making things happen.

A good way of recognizing and supporting the people who worked in the background and made things happen. I approved.

Tyrannus kicked Queen under the table.

“Half of them are still sung, and four centuries later you’re still referring to yourself as royalty! That’s why Arachne gets so pissy over it!”

Nevermind. All those lofty ideals just crumbled to dust.

“Calm.” The next man introduced himself, steamrolling the coversation. “Lava. Mountain. 11th Legion. Large channeled skills. Major disruptions. Nobody can fight when the ground under their feet betrays them, and when volcanoes erupt.”

Legion was much more descriptive with his little lightshow, a volcanic eruption emerging in the middle of a group of barbarians and just killing a ton of them. The legions came in after, casually ‘stabbing’ the fallen barbarians.

Night had mentioned how Destruction had been a sort of precursor to War Sentinels, and it looked like Calm was a sort of successor to his seat. Massive ‘fuck this army up’ effects - with the benefit of having a full Legion to act as mop-up.

Dude did not seem chatty. I couldn’t tell if that was his personality, if he really was as calm and emotionless as his words and title implied, or if he just barely had a lid on his anger, with the title a cruel joke or misdirection.

[*ding!* [Ancient Loremaster of Legend] has leveled up! 180 -> 181. +100 Dexterity, +100 Vitality, +800 Mana, +800 Mana Regen, +1600 Magic Power, +1600 Magic Control from your Class per level! +1 Strength, +1 Dexterity, +1 Speed, +1 Vitality, +1 Mana, +1 Mana Regeneration, +1 Magic Power, +1 Magic Control for being Chimera (Elvenoid)! +1 Mana, +1 Magic Power from your Element per level!]

I gave the notification the side-eye. I hoped that was Auri cooking a bunch of new goods in a high-stress environment - grand new opening of a bakery in a swanky part of town, new business, all that jazz that got [Bakers] levels - and not because there was another fire started somewhere that I’d need to attend.

“War Sentinel Depths. Ocean. Unattached to a Legion.” The next woman introduced herself. My eyebrows tried to escape into my hair.

“How’s that work?” I asked.

She shrugged.

“Because, like Legion, I can take on an army or city myself and win. Unlike Legion, I don’t have the same intimidation factor. Like Tyrannus, I’m not great at punching at my weight, but I punch down fantastically well.”

I stared at her, and saw Tyrannus nudge her under the table. Legion had his little army of ‘barbarians’ facing off against a single woman.

“Skills! I’ve got a weird one called [Water Echo]. It’s a toggled passive. When it’s on, anytime I move I leave a trail of water behind me. I’ve got some more skills dedicated to the specific handling of just that water, and it’s tailored narrowly enough that I get to control it all on a macro scale. I start off small, but watch.”

She gestured to the little lightshow Legion had going on. Depths was alone, running in circles away from the barbarians. Water sloshed off behind her in great gouts, slowing down her pursuers. Slowly, bit by bit, the water level rose, and she started to control it, flinging great amounts of water all over the place. By the time the barbarians realized there was an issue and started to run, Depths had whole tidal waves crashing around on what was once a dry and flat plain.

I blinked at that. How much mana was that!?

Wait, she said it was a passive. So no mana to summon the water!? That was broken.

“I’m also our deep-sea specialist, and most of my missions are Core instead of War. I’m a little surprised I haven’t been reassigned to Core, but Arachne reckons there are moral reasons not to ‘lose’ a War Sentinel.”

Tyrannus shook his head.

“You’re still War because you can take on an entire army.” He said. “Not many Core Sentinels could, and I’d argue only three War Sentinels can. Don’t sell yourself short.”

Depths looked pleased as she leaned back, grabbing another snack.

“Calamity. 1st Legion. I kill people.” The last man said. His eyes, unlike everyone else in the room, had no markings of an advanced element, and he had one of the highest levels I’d seen any vampire have - [Mage - 2625]. “Poison. Miasma. Third class is to keep me entertained. I’m half the reason Forbidden Four exists as a concept in this day and age.”

He flicked a few cards.

“There’s really not much more to say.”

A picture was worth a thousand words, and Legion was quick to deliver. A bunch of barbarians showed up, a mini-Calamity showed up, and they just keeled over and died.

Sounded like Toxic mixed with Hesoid. Mass murder on an industrial scale. I had a lot of thoughts about that, but I’d been the one dishing out death myself by the thousands to civilians at one point.

“That’s us! We all have teams, a few of us have companions, but tell us about yourself. What are your relevant elements, how do you see yourself operating, and what’s your experience?” Tyrannus asked me.

I was glad they’d had me go last. Gave me a good feel for how they did things.

“Well! Celestial healer. I’m hammering all the details out still, but I imagine I’m going to be a great big ‘nobody dies while I’m here’. Not as big or flashy as the rest of you, but I’ve historically been fairly popular on battlefields.”

“Like this?” Legion made the two armies again, the sides clashing. Each time a barbarian was struck down, they stayed ‘dead’, but each time a legionnaire was hit, they just shrugged it off and kept going.

“Yeah, close enough!” It got the idea across.

“What are your limitations? Range, power, sustainability, large-scale combat prowess, personal combat prowess, and what does your team currently look like? How much experience do you have in warzones, and what types of conflicts?” Tyrannus asked. Before I could answer, he added a few more words.

“We’re only asking because we want to help. You’re one of us now, and nobody comes into this with all the right answers.”

I nodded.

I’d heard all about them - now it was time to tell them all about me!

Comments

Anonymous

thanks for the chapter!

Anonymous

No I did not want the conversation to end

Markus

I noticed the worm reference with Ocean.

Wizard Tim

I'm a bit surprised that armies still form into legions. Has no one ever considered standardized military training? An army of Celestial/Metal Warrior/Mages would easily replicate modern militaries. No need to line up and stab each other.

Guilherme Paschoaletto

Perhaps yes, but would also be a lot easier to counter with different builds. Having a handful of smaller armies that employs different strategies makes it a lot harder to predict and counter the opposing army

Jumping Flounder

i wonder if any of them will get levels just from her telling them what she can do

Wizard Tim

Not really. Tactics and strategies win wars, not equipment (or classes in this case). Having trained soldiers using standardized class combinations and capable of ranged and melee combat would likely trump specialized units simply for practical versatility. For example, I doubt WS Depths could fight a battalion of Celestial/Earth mages flinging pebbles at her at sound breaking speeds.

Cirvante

War Sentinel Depths. Yeah, she's got a lesser version of Leviathan's Water Echo. She leaves water behind like him, but it doesn't keep traveling at the speed of her movements. Leviathan could use his Water Echo combined with his super speed to create devastating ranged attacks. I bet her fine control over her water is way better though.

Cirvante

Sure, until your army of Earth mages runs into an army that has Brilliance/Mirror barrier mages and Mountain/Gravity mages specialized in intercepting Earth-based artillery. Depths could simply toggle [Water Echo] on long before engaging, run around for a while and then come riding in on top of a massive tidal wave, while being protected by a high-pressure, rapidly-spinning [Water Barrier]. And she has two or three Ocean classes. She could already have [Ocean Spirit] and a skill that lets her turn into water when hit and reform somewhere else. An army of classers can do a lot of damage, but is also vulnerable to large-scale attacks. The fewer specialists they have, the more weaknesses that can be exploited by an opposing army. A forbidden four classer like Calamity could just stroll up under [Greater Invisibility] and wipe them out. So they need AoE Healers to counter that. Barrier Mages. Illusionists. Snipers to watch the sky for flying mage classers who want to rain Acid or Meteors down on them. They need Echanters to enchant their soldier's equipment and maintain it. Equipment and classes do win battles on Pallos, because it's magical equipment and magical classes. A single Storm mage with [Channel] and [Delayed Casting] could win a battle against your standardized army. With that being said, I do believe that smaller commando units consisting of specialists operating invisibly to harrass enemy forces and supply lines would vastly outperform standard armies and legions. You could have Lightning/Void assassin-type speedsters, Lightning/Poison snipers, a Brilliance/Mirror barrier mage, a Mirage/Sound illusionist, a Celestial healer, a Brilliance/Arcanite wizard and enchanter and a bunch of mages who can either punch up or down. With either enchantments or sympathy magic, long-range communication with the [Strategists] and [Thinkers] should be possible. A hundred commando units, consisting of ten specialists each, directed by a team of [Strategists] would slowly chew through most conventional armies and their supply lines with gorilla warfare. Especially because they level faster and become even stronger as a result.

Cirvante

Probably not, but their Sentinel skills might level from her telling them about ancient battles and the Sentinels of those times.

Jett Hardin

I'm interested in seeing warfare on a front against an intelligent enemy as opposed to the formorians. The formorians assaulted in straightforward unending waves attempting to just win through sheer force. If I were waging war I'd have each legion set up with classes of diverse affinities to cover each other's weaknesses but also created with certain percentages of different roles. Say 40% melee dmg classers 30% raged attackers 10% defensive classes 10% speedsters 5% supportive buffs with the rest a mix of specialists and battlefield power healers. Each role grouped together to be utilized think artillery mage squad C instead of a single person. Then even with mixed classes and affinities you could assume and melee squad would on average be able to function as well as another melee squad for strategizing. Then give each role its own standardized training so they all have a general level of competence and military discipline. I could also see there being commando squads made up of classers more similar to a ranger or adventurer squad able to act self-sufficienctly for important discreet missions. But guerilla tactics are mainly used when you have home field advantage not in a war of conquest or political dispute by the aggressor. Even then you need armies not just to take land but to hold it to set up supply lines and enforce will of the government on the land taken. A bunch of commandos may be extremely effective and taking ground but an actual army would need to follow them to hold ground as soon as they had a new objective.

Chloe

I wonder what they thought of Auri's baked goods!!!???!!!

Cirvante

Great reference to Leviathan from Worm. I was hoping for a reference to Megumin from Konosuba, a War Sentinel who channels massive [Explosion] spells to blow up opposing armies. An aura mage would have also been great, as a reference to Rain from Delve. Aura mages have been used even in ancient Remus at the Frontline, but only as buffers. However, with the right elements and skills, an aura mage could become absolutely terrifying in an army. Skills like [Aura Range], [Aura Multicast], [Aura Compression], [Aura Shaping] and [Aura Targeting]. Maybe take an Oath that restricts you to only take aura mage classes and to always keep Mana Regeneration as your highest stat, which should massively boost it. Then crank your base mana regen as high as possible, it's basically your one stat to rule them all. Brilliance, Celestial, Gravity and Radiance would be good elements, maybe Pyronox, Miasma, Poison or Decay for purely offensive aura classes. As soon as an opposing army marches into your range, they suddenly all get hit with multiple casts of your auras, slowly chipping away at them, while your own army gets massively buffed. Or maybe a Void-aligned Canceler aura user who drains mana and prevents skill use for enemy soldiers. Now imagine that as a level 2000+ War Sentinel.

Cirvante

Fair enough, I was thinking more in terms of destroying enemy forces, supply lines and fortifications rather than conquering and holding territory. Since the System makes it possible for a single high-level classer to rout or even outright destroy an army, and even certain lower-level classers can punch up hard with the right classes and skills, marching around conventional armies should be quite dangerous and costly on Pallos. They're all grouped up for a massive AoE strike to do maximum damage. At the very least, each army should have a couple Mirage/Sound illusionists to hide it's movements. But if everyone does that, it becomes a war of invisible armies. You'd need scouts with illusion-piercing skills to track them and take out enemy scouts. Maybe Diviners to scry over large distances and pierce through illusions. Several power healers on standby to guard against forbidden four attacks. Constant multi-layered barriers set up to guard against alpha strikes. Specialized guards to counter assassins. It might just be more effective to have many small units of operatives containing a few WMD classers each, all coordinated by and feeding intel back to army command and their strategists, to wipe out enemy combat forces and fortifications. It doesn't even have to be small units. With spatial bags being a thing, even a unit of 40-80 men can operate in enemy territory without supply lines. Then once they have cleared an area of enemy combat forces you can send in the peacekeepers to control the civilian population. Think German blitzkrieg tactics versus French conventional warfare tactics in WW2, but the German tanks and motorized infantry are invisible and their radio messages to high command can't be intercepted. Oh, and they have tactical nukes.

Chloe

Aren't they still against Void folks?

Anonymous

I think it was only void mage classes but an aura based class like this would probably be a mage class

Foxner

Gah! Back to wishing I could time travel once more.

Cirvante

Yeah, I'm not sure if a Void aura mage would get Void Conjuration and Manipulation and count as a Void mage. Void would be a fantastic element to get a [Disintegration] aura of course, but I deliberately wrote Void Canceler, since they are still allowed. Void Cancelers like Senti-Null can suppress skill use in an area, and an aura version could be targeted at only the opposing army with the right metamagic. Then they could eventually get crossover skills like Hunting's [Mana Void] to straight up drain their mana.

Wizard Tim

Jett, my point was the military doctrine hasn't evolved since Remus. Your mockup of forces is good for mixed arms warfare, but classes and magic pretty much allow for doctrines of near-future strategies and tactics. Which dramatically complicates warfare. Melee is all but useless in modern warfare, and I doubt it'll ever come back. I'd be more inclined to organize militaries by branch. Have a military focused on ground warfare, air, naval, and possibly amphibious assault. Exactly like how the US organizes it's military power. Strategists that have a focused objective would then break their forces down and develop skills and tactics as necessary. Brilliance/Radiance troops for close quarters or urban warfare, esrth/gravity mages for artillery etc. As for commandos and guerrilla warfare. Commandos are useless against armies (anything commandos can do, armies can do 1000x over) and are strictly used for missions that benefit from covert operations. Recon, logistical strikes, assassinations, etc. And guerrilla warfare is only for when you're desperate. You're correct, it's best used defensively and focuses on chewing through your enemy's resources. But the only time you'd apply these tactics is when you're severely outnumbered and constantly losing ground. You don't have to know the terrain, you just have to know how to use it against an opponent.

Anonymous

That was actually a positive for Leviathan though… His strength is not micro control, but macro. Remember, he was threatening to pull an entire city down from underneath.

Cirvante

I don't think you can apply modern warfare doctrines from Earth to Pallos, mainly because Pallos has the System and Earth does not. You have essentially people with superpowers fighting each other. Melee combat might be useless on Earth, but that's only because normal humans can't move at supersonic speed, cut through a tank with a sword and make plate armor durable enough that even high-caliber bullets would just bounce off. Oh, and keep doing that non-stop for days without resting. Commando units on Pallos can sneak up on an army and deliver the equivalent of a tactical nuke. It's just not comparable.

phantom

The system is not balanced. High levels make an impact on the battlefield way more than a single skilled person makes on the modern battlefield. and people have their classes for life. the average citizen is not going to dedicate their whole lifelong class to the military. unless you want to have a mandatory potential draft along your whole society. one which would cripple people who did not get drafted. Beyond that you will also have announced to the world what your strategy for combat is. and you won't have a way to back out because you committed so many people to it.

Anonymous (edited)

Comment edits

2023-06-13 23:27:50 Auri is still adorable <3
2023-06-13 18:52:00 Auri is still adorable <3

Auri is still adorable <3

Wizard Tim

Phantom: -.- 1) 1 2k individual probably couldn't overcome an army of 1000 level 250s that are well trained, organized, and dedicated to murdering them. 2) Classes can be reset. 3) Conscripts are largely useless. 4) Yeah, that's a problem. Which is why you focus on versatility. Earth mages can use any old rock as ammunition, can quickly build fortifications and trenches, and can both attack and defend with equal ease. Now imagine how an army of them might operate. Not as a cluster of "Hey, kill me!" But as an actual military force.

Wizard Tim

Cirvante: Yeah, it's kinda obvious that you don't think fundamental military strategy and doctrines are applicable. That's kinda why I don't think tour responses are very applicable. Whether it's someone with "superpowers" of flight and "blow them up" or someone in an A-10 Thunderbolt makes little difference to their application in warfare. Their respective roles would remain the same. A dude running at super sonic speeds isn't going to matter against a dude reacting to and firing at them at super sonic speeds. Or just conjuring a barrier in their path. In fact, high mobility benefits more from ranged combat over melee in general. Skills basically just replace most forms of technology. Tanks? Skills can replicate them. Firearms? Skills. WMDs? High level skills. The doctrines you train for and employ don't care about the "equipment" used, only the roles they cover.

phantom

Yeah ranged combat will typically beat melee in groups. though there is one big weakness. Mirror. though it won't reflect arrows. That said I think you are underestimating the gap of a level 2000 and 250. one other thing about ranged vs melee is friendly fire. if an agility fighter is close in you will hit allies with all those bolts. which yeah they will die. so will your own allies and more than the one fighter.

Wizard Tim

Phantom: I'm not sure that I am underestimating 2ks. Tyrannus is 2600+ and his big trick is "raise a skeleton t-rex and let the legion mop up". That's his *specialty* move for taking down armies, and he specifically states that very few War Sentinels can wipe out entire armies. I think my assumption is canonically accurate at this point. Especially considering that, as previously stated, they seem to be focused on old school "armies come in blocks" tactics which are just easy pickings for anyone with AoE fever. As for friendly fire, this is addressable in training and doctrine. It's also why I'd always focus my mainstay troops with a warrior/mage dual class setup. Warrior being focused largely on self defense training while the mage class focuses on taking down targets. From there it's just a matter of equipping them according to financial abilities. Armor, gems, enchantments, etc. Again, I'm looking at squad tactics as opposed to legion formations. Using cover and concealment, suppressive fire, covering fire, overwatch, etc. The kind of military doctrine that emphasizes killing the enemy before they even see you. The War Sentinels just make it sound like battles are as straight forward as marching two armies into each other and seeing who made the better plan. Even though skills allow for an incredibly diverse range of potential strategies and tactics.

Cirvante

LOL, you're still trying to apply modern military doctrine to what are essentially capes with superpowers. What about WS Legion? Or Queen, Depths and Dawn? There is no equivalent. Dawn will eventually be able to carry her legion around in her pocket. Depths is essentially an Endbringer. WS Tyrannus doesn't just raise a dinosaur skeleton, he raises hundreds, combined with blinding Mist and Poison. WS Calamity can just stroll up to an army under [Greater Invisibility] and wipe them out within minutes. Your idea of an army of Warrior/Mage hybrids is ridiculous, only very few builds can pull that off effectively. At least make it Warrior/Ranger hybrids with Mage specialists to back them up. A squad of soldiers who all have the same cookiecutter hybrid build would get wrecked by one that has an illusionist, a barrier mage, a canceller and two or three sorcerers with [Multicast] and [Trigger]. They wouldn't even see or hear them coming and any attempt at retaliation would fail pitifully. Do you remember what the level 2000+ elven mage did to the goblin army at Wobby Pass? He casually rained Acid down on them and wiped them out. And a lot of them were above level 250. You're just way off, dude.

Wizard Tim

LOL you're still trying to have a serious conversation about this. I'm pretty much done with you. I don't really have the time or will to put up with explaining basics to someone who's only responses are "my dad can beat up your dad!". Have a nice day.

Quentin Long

Wizard Tim, [Skills] and the System do a pretty serious number on logistics. What sort of support does 1 (one) super speedy Classer need, as compared to an A-10 Thunderbolt? Etc etc.

Wizard Tim

Quentin: Far less than the Thunderbolt. Unless the speedy flyer uses alchemy made by other classes as bombs, they're probably largely self sufficient logistically speaking (or just require normal soldier care). Though secondary classes that just fling objects, and reliance on alchemy supplies, would expand their destructive abilities immensely without biting into their total skill sets. The point is their role in warfare would be close air support specialist that replaces ground flankers like cavalry. Able to fly in from the side, unload their payload on specified targets, and fly put before retaliation can take full effect.