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Angel "Billy" 3x6 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2021-01-23 04:51:08
Imported:
2021-03

Content

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eh4mfckh2y0w5l2/Angel%203X6.m4v?dl=0

https://vimeo.com/503710556

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wso32ZerIYby1BbExHVd-H58yjH4TshQ/view?usp=sharing

PASSWORD: Geekedoutnation


Comments

Flora Smith

Really good ep, REALY rough watch

J

Really great episode but agree that its tough to watch. There are great moments like Cordelia's speech to Lila which was done well by actress Charisma Carpenter who is a domestic abuse survivor. Also, Wesley 's turmoil from attacking Fred was is so sad to watch due to the show's repeated hints of Wesley's father being abusive.

cil

one of my favorite angel episodes. creepy wes is CHILLING. some great acting from alexis. i also love lilah coming in at the end to save the day like the badass she is.

Andrea

One thing I have found that I never expected to enjoy about reaction videos but love is how incredibly uncomfortable and/or horrified people are watching things like this. It was not okay back then, but so many comments about abuse, objectification, misogyny, homophobia, racism, and pretty much all social "otherness" of the time, etc are called out now and it gives me hope that as bad as it can seem sometimes today, there really has been a great bit of progress in the right direction since these shows aired.

Quantoto

The episode is supposed to make you uncomfortable because the topic is so real. Many statements made throughout the episode are statements people use in real life to justify abuse against women. Especially the "she shouldn't have been wearing that" argument which erroneously makes the actions of men the responsibility of women. I actually like that Lilah was the one to take down Billy. I think it was what her character needed to move past her feelings of helplessness. I also like the nods to horror movies like the Shining without doing the full "Here's Johnny" reference when Wesley finally broke through the door. That whole sequence still gives me chills.

Calvin Allen

When this first aired I loved this episode. As an adult I recognize it's gross but I don't hate it. The reason Billy is doing this is because he's evil. He was so evil he had his own personal hell. And by extension the show is saying misogyny is particularly evil. It just sucks they had to do that by assaulting two of their female characters. Another issue I'm seeing as an adult is that this message is coming from a show that doesn't treat its female characters particularly well. Lilah is evil. Fred and Cordy are usually damsels in distress. (Cordy particularly being tortured) and even in this episode the women barely talk to each other unless it's about Billy.

Alexis Cardarella

This show brings a lot of mixed feelings from the fandom. I’m a feminist. I actually enjoy this episode ...but I think they missed the mark. I understand they were trying to make a commentary on misogyny. But what’s weird about this approach is how they reference this misogyny as some inherent thing men are born with and have to suppress or something. ...Instead of the other way around. This stuff is taught. And you certainly don’t have to be a man to be misogynistic. But, yes, the violence rooted in misogyny is displayed by men, not women, something they definitely run with this episode.

Trevon

My question is why does the story have to tell the story you want them to tell. What makes you premise better then the one they told?

Ray D

This is a really really great episode. It’s so raw and emotional. This is probably the episode that is the most uncomfortable and hardest to watch in the whole Buffyverse but I love what we learn about all of our characters in how they react both to the situation with Billy and afterward. The acting is really good in this one too. Stephanie Romanov really shines as Lilah. I love how tough Cordelia is and how she takes action. And the stuff with Wesley, Fred, and Gunn, while uncomfortable is really emotionally riveting. It feels like a legit horror movie in parts. And what happened will reverberate going forward. Great stuff all around despite the rawness. It’s supposed to make you feel uncomfortable and it certainly does that.

Ray D

To answer some of your questions/concerns. Billy is just a straight up sadistic fuck who is an evil demon. That’s his motivation. I don’t think we need more than that. The fact that he had his own private cell with a guard in hell is all that we really need to know about how evil he is. And the story needed to be men beating women so that they could tell the story about domestic violence that they wanted to tell. I’d say especially in the early 00s you didn’t see a lot of shows trying to touch on that. I thought it was a bold step for the show to take.

Jeremy Burch
>>52014867

I know that most of the episode is implying that misogyny is just inherently something men are born with but i do find it interesting that the end of the episode has Fred saying to Wesley that it wasn't something in him, but something that was done to him which could be the implication that misogyny can be taught, and Angel implied it didn't work on him because he moved beyond hate implying it doesn't have to inherently be a part of you forever.

Vicky N

I have mixed feelings about this episode. I hate what it says about men and primordial misogyny that Billy brings out. As if it’s a given that men are misogynistic by nature. They can’t help it. On the other hand I like that Cordelia, Fred and Lilah take control of the situation each one on their own way and terms and in character. I disagree that Cordelia should have killed Billy, it wouldn’t have been in character, it would have been out of her guilt. I disagree with you that the story they are telling wouldn’t have been different without the aggression of men towards women. I get that you don’t want to see it, that it makes you uncomfortable. But it’s the story they are telling and it happens “me too”

Vicky N
>>52019872

But the story they are telling is still relevant today as attested by the “me too” movement. It’s not something relegated to a bygone era.

Scarlett Monrow

1) Trivia: this episode was written Sep 11, 2001 (writer heard about attacks, but had to continue to write as he was under deadline). 2) About Billy and his origin: Billy's father, a human from a powerful family, had raped a harmless female demon and Billy was the result. His misogynistic powers come from the human side, not the demon. 3) Poor Wesley! He got it worse than any other member of the team!

cil

also regarding wesley's crush on fred... it's not that out of left field. there were lingering looks and comments made in previous episodes that alluded to him being interested in her. those moments will become more obvious to you when you re-watch the series (which you absolutely should. you notice so much more on re-watch).

Bryan Terry

The goal of the story is to make you uncomfortable. The story is literally telling you there is a dark place in hell for men who hit women and that misogynistic traits are pure evil and of left uncheck can utterly destroy everything. If a viewer is not uncomfortable with this episode then that viewer should probably seek professional help. It's a bummer that you seem to struggle with themes that go beyond surface level story telling and usually write off an episode because you don't get it. If we did go with your narrative of just making everyone crazy then what themes are you even exploring at that point? What message are you trying to tell? And how is that different from what was already explored on season 5 of Buffy?

Marshall Dante Robertson

Billy, Billy, Billy. This was an episode I have always loved, and even now I still appreciate how well executed and directed it is, in particular. But rewatching this in 2021 has me all up in my mixed feelings. I've always appreciated the Buffyverse for going "there", as far as telling these dark and uncomfortable truths about society in a unique and interesting way. Misogyny, just like racism, homophobia, and any other phobia we might have, exist in some way or form in all of us, not because we're born that way, but because this society actively teaches hatred of the "other", and it's up to us to undo the damage and to rethink and unlearn all the things we were taught. I also believe that putting our girls Fred and Cordelia in these situations was the right decision, because if it had been some random women, the impact wouldn't be as strong. However nowadays I view Joss Whedon's shows in an entirely different light because of all the things we now know about him. There is a pattern of him putting his female characters through consistent, sometimes unnecessary hell. I wondered while watching Steven's reaction whether Joss has this "Billy" esque obsession with women in pain. This is the same guy that thought it was a good idea to pitch an episode of Firefly where Inara gets GANG RAPED by a group of reavers in order for Mal to finally realize how shitty he has treated her. Even in this show, the original pitch for the second episode of season one involved Kate going undercover as a prostitute who eventually became a prostitute who was addicted to crack. All of this was confirmed by Tim Minear, FYI. Like Steven said, whyyyyy? It truly should make you wonder about the mindset of our favorite creators. All in all, I stand by my opinion that this was still an dark, yet exceptionally well done episode of Angel, and the acting was superb. Lilah and Cordelia's convo in the apartment lives rent free in my mind, and Welsey's "I'm so sorry" at the end kills me, he's such an underrated actor. Yet in hindsight, I wonder if this had been a cable show, would this be an even darker and uncomfortable episode than it already was? Probably, and I definitely wouldn't have liked it as much. There's a fine line between telling thoughtful stories about dark situations like this, and telling them for sheer shock value and voyeurism, almost as if the creator gets off on it.

Fighter seVen'eiGht
>>52056880

Hit the nail on the head. This is one of the episodes witha bit of social messaging and I get that right now people are tired of stories that preach to them but it will never stop being important to be mindful of these things. You pointed out that it would make sense if he was from a time period when that type of thinking existed,... well look around; it never stopped being that time period and never will be. We're always going to have human failings and weaknesses and acknowledgement of that fact isn't a bad thing. We aren't perfect and never will be and as long as we're aware of that we can actually make real progress. The moment we assume that we've solved all our problems is when we're on the verge of reliving humanity's worst impulses.

Briony Addey

One thing this episode gets wrong about misogyny is that (like other kinds of bigotry/hatred like racism, transphobia, homophobia etc) it doesn't necessarily involve 'personal antipathy' or anger directed at a person. Angel implies he's beyond that kind of anger/hatred/rage. But misogyny can just be entitlement. It can just make men feel entitled to women's bodies, or that certain things in a relationship only go one way (e.g. faithfulness, certain types of respect) etc. Joss Whedon's misogyny in his personal life is a good example of this. He can tell himself he doesn't hate women, while cheating on his wife for a dozen years. Ugh.

Andrea

I don't disagree with the criticism aimed at this episode, especially in light of what we know about Joss now, but I do want to comment on the notion that this episode is saying men are inherently misogynist - I don't think that's what it's saying. I think its saying the society in which these grown men were raised essentially programmed them this way. I think the episode is commenting on the culture we ALL grew up in that conditions us (yes, even women) to have these thoughts - those ugly, victim-blaming thoughts. I think this episode is trying to make the argument that it's systemic - that the media we consume and the way news is often presented kind of programs our brains to have those thoughts whether we listen to them or not. That's the nature of this perpetuated rape culture. And those of us who manage to NOT be misogynistic in this society simply learn to suppress those thoughts and dismiss them for the BS that they are. But that doesn't mean they don't crop up in the backs of our minds, unwelcome as they may be, due to decades of this conditioning. That's how I've always read the message of the episode, anyway. I do agree it misses the mark at points, though.

SpikesEcho

This episode is one of the highlights for the series for me; definitely falls into the top 5 I can list off the top of my head when someone wants examples of how AtS can be an excellent show

Scarlett Monrow
>>52081381

That's a strange "logical" connection: "he hates women because he cheats on his wife"? Do you know details their personal lives, do you know EXACTLY what caused him to switch partners? I'm going to guess that's "no". So you are claiming that a person you don't know HATES half a human population, because he was unfaithful to someone else you don't personally know. That's not a normal way to view a relationship between two people, maybe you should look to yourself from where this weird notion came from.

john segun doe

Bro this was actually a super good episode. I get you like fred Heck i love her too but you gotta look at the overal story sometimes man