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805 - My First Genocide feat. Ali Abunimah (2/8/24) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-02-09 06:11:45
Edited:
2024-02-12 18:38:39
Imported:

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Content

Today, executive director of the Electronic Intifada Ali Abunimah joins us to discuss the war in Palestine. We cover recent attempts to delegitimize and destroy UNRWA, atrocity propaganda, evolving capabilities of Palestinian resistance, changing attitudes towards Israel in the U.S., and the life, career and death of Palestinian author Refaat Alareer.

Find the Electronic Intifada here: https://electronicintifada.net/

And on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/@TheElectronicIntifada

You can find Gaza Writes Back, the short story collection edited by Refaat Alareer, here: https://justworldbooks.com/books-by-title/gaza-writes-back/

Files

Comments

Schwartz666

Oh shit.. my refreshing worked

Tommy

Second

Brendan Kneeland

No I wasn’t refreshing Patreon on my couch at 1 in the morning you can’t prove anything

BORN2DIE

Good Morning fr. Scandinavia

Mike Loudin

Let's get some "Chris W"s going in the chat boys and girls!

Caesaro

Might be too little too late but does anyone know of a good org to donate to for Gaza?

Julian Trupe

Love for Ali and EI ♥️

Caleb Ransom

Happy midnight to Scandinavia from New Mexico, U.S.A.

Jessica S

Always appreciate hearing Ali 🤗

Declan Kennedy

great guest and episode I teared up during the Refaat discussion, I never even interacted with him online let alone knew the man, but I think about him every day

Billiam

@50 min a beautiful eulogy for a fellow poster

Brad Plumb

Wow, great to hear Ali on here!

K H

Imagine believing accusations from people that can't truthfully read a blank calendar. Oh and jerk off corpses, because seriously what the fuck?

Fernslinger

Uh oh! Daniel Hepburn and Sparky aren’t gonna enjoy this episode!

K H

People keep saying Hamas has all these tunnels which survive bombardment and allow them to pop up next to tanks. I don't know if I believe that given I have seen no such videos. I suspect there is a period of time in which aerial scanning is impeded and they entrench during those periods. If that is the case this will continue indefinitely because there is nothing to destroy. They can only kill a man as it were.

Bronagh M

I've always known that Israeli society is deeply propagandized, but the way ordinary Israelis talk about UNWRA and the Palestinian refugees who work for them has been really revolting. Especially when they talk about how lucky and entitled Palestinians are to inherit refugee status. They are foaming at the mouth to have that status revoked from some of the most vulnerable people in the world.

Lono's Oboe

Fantastic interview as always. I always appreciate when Chapo cuts through the humour and gets down to the nub of an issue. I also loved hearing the description of the Palestinian hyperloop. Incredible

Matthew Briggs

I’ve been listening to Chapo for years and you guys are very close to my heart. So is Ali Abunimah and the crew from EI. Having you finally together, talking about Palestine, is like hearing my soul out loud. Thank you all so much. Hope you can reconvene soon.

Adam Ross

is that f murray abraham at the end?

Blank

Love waking up to a fresh cup of Chapo

Justin

Andrea
>>129242477

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say there probably are.

Kyle LoPinto

You guys should unlock this one, it's excellent

Vincent Butler

It would be amazing to be able to share this ep outside the pay wall. So many pro Palestine supporters need condensed information like this.

Erik Bourre

ive been listening to EI for a while now, was so pumped to see Ali as a guest.

Tommy
>>129242477

Adam Friedland: "There are good people in Israel." Nick Mullen: "Yeah, they're called Palestinians." If someone was born there and refused to join the IDF, I think they can get a pass. Anyone else is getting boiled in cum or whatever happens in Hell.

Jeff

Great ep

Brant

I'm really glad y'all brought on Ali! The Electronic Intifada has been a brilliant outlet for understanding all issues around Palestine for a long time

Andrea

Rohmer Simpson

Mr President, it seems we have allowed a mine shaft gap

Justin
>>129242477

Can you provide one single example? I have yet to interact with one who wasn’t a rude, unpleasant, entitled asshole. Not being hyperbolic. It’s true

Justin
>>129251063

Fair points. Which is also why all Israelis have blood on their hands and should be taught shame for generations.

Justin
>>129251063

Also, the Germans killed 20-40 million innocent people. 6 millions were Jews. The shame they feel should be for fascist imperialism of all kinds, not just the anti-Semitic ones.

Yairo Martis

I think this episode should be unlocked. Don't stop talking about Gaza.

Yairo Martis
>>129230383

I've given to MAP and set up a monthly donation too. I haven't been able to donate to Palestine Red Crescent. At first their website donation was down, and then my bank kept refusing my transaction.

Justin
>>129242477

He does get a pass. Should move out of there. But still.

Rohmer Simpson

not my joke but NATO = Nazis After the Trials were Over

K H
>>129242477

Ehhh I don't think so. As there are no good Americans. Including myself. I open up my wallet and it's full of blood. God damn. This is in reply to first response.

Rohmer Simpson
>>129240626

F Murray Abraham could have played Dr. Lecktor but Cox could never play "Chess Hustler (uncredited)"

Ahmed Razick

On the subject of Germany. I went to brush up on my history and the Nuremburg Laws show as repealed. Fascism won WW2.

K H
>>129229655

I claim Israeli right of first. Extract yourself from my ancestral comment. I had not laid eyes on it until now, but my spirit tells me it is mine.

K H
>>129230383

Idk does Hamas take donations? I hear $100 can protect a child from a Merkava.

K H

Felix put all his stat points into foreign punditry and MMA trivia. Let him finish.

Emily Richardson

What was the excerpt at the end ? It’s familiar but I can’t place it.

Rohmer Simpson

Living through the early 90s, let me tell you no one could ever have guessed that Hillary Clinton would eventually become one of the most despicable people on the face of the earth — nor one of the most tiresome. She truly unites almost everyone across the American political spectrum.

Neil Cafferky

My eyes were burning listening to the tribute to Rifat

Ian H
>>129259019

Brian Cox reading Refaat Alareer's poem "If I Must Die".

Toshio42

On one side we have Refaat Alareer's "If I Die Let it Bring Hope," and on the other we have a nebbishy chad-wannabe Israeli rapper shouting "We're gonna kill you, Dua Lipa!" (approx.) and topping the Israeli charts.

Matelda

Try to scare democrats into stopping the genocide by phonebanking for Listen to Michigan between now and Feb 27. Listentomichigan dot com.

John Gaynor

Refaat's poem at the end. It would bring tears to a stone.

absoluteboi

really good episode

calvin kilby
>>129235903

it's suspected by the IDF and their american leash holders an estimated 80% of the tunnel network remains intact and usable by the resistance.

Jordan Stamm

Gotta unlock this one.

K H
>>129235903

The IDF has reverse intelligence. Without a Ukraine like doc dump we won't know what the US thinks is happening. The whole tunnel thing just seems like cultist bullshit to me. I have a feeling they are going to end up committing actual ground forces to assist Israel. At which point perhaps the method will be explained.

Kevin E

wow my home province made the pod, such an honour. one of the only pieces of good news recently, Robinson lost her cabinet position within days of her comments.

Peen Israel

This guest was amazing. Brilliant episode, and Will is an excellent interviewer.

Garth Hillsborough
>>129251063

We can now see the Soviets and Americans were way too soft on Germany. From Congo Mueller to today's second Holocaust, Germany seems to have only learned the lesson "never get caught again."

Zenm17

If anyone is interested in sitreps from the Palestinian perspective, might want to check out The Anti-Empire Project on YT - also of course Jon Elmer does a great job on this on EI streams.

Nico

Must unlock

Matthew Krueger

Joining the chorus here: please unlock this ep. I don't know if anything makes a difference anywhere anymore, but I know folks that could stand to hear this.

Major bit me
>>129251063

Life is for the living - how Germans feel about their wretched history is unimportant if their take away from it is “we need to support Zionist Lebensraum, ghettos, apartheid, and genocide.” And hey, would you look at that, their feeling or trauma or whatever, *just so happen* to align with US and capitalist imperialism. Crazy how that happens right?

Colton Durbin
>>129257386

I’m very disappointed that he’s only mentioned Armored Core 6 a grand total of one time on the pod since it was released.

K H
>>129251063

The issue with that is, as the episode piths at, there is no Jewish state in Germany, nor have they offered. They are always crazy only to the extent they are willing to see others harmed. Which isn't an attitude I would call crazy.

prashanth

guys please unlock this so we can spread it far and wide. Ali is one of the best we have

Alexandr

20:00 HEY FELIX IS ON THIS TOO!

Will Menaker

The ep will be unlocked by Monday

Dan

Ali is correct that it is a Member of the British Columbian provincial Legislative Assembly that is stepping down in Canada (Selina Robinson). Worse than her comments is her party affiliation: she's NDP, our historically Social-Democratic party, and was a Cabinet Minister too. With a Left like this, who needs a Right?

David Cox

Powerful heartfelt report from the frontlines - well done Chapo for organizing the interview & making the information available and widespread. .....One day this war is gonna end....

Sparky

Death to Israel.

Major bit me
>>129251063

Yeah but you keep trying to psychologize is which is stupid, German and American support for “Israel” is not due to inter generational trauma or some bs, it’s in their material class interests broadly. For instance, despite all the tough talk in polls about how Americans are leaning away from Pissrael, most will vote for Zionists regardless to protect and advance what they view as their interests. That’s the real problem

eduard karpoev

GDR is best Germany. Germany is only cool when the collective Slavic gun is pointing at their head.

Dan
>>129235903

A significant minority of Americans (the evangelicals who yearn for Armageddon) would be over the moon to have their children maimed & killed in ‘the holy land.’ When it doesn’t bring about the second coming they still get to bask in the permanent sympathy & secondhand ‘valor’ they can milk for the rest of their miserable lives

infinitesunrise

+1 to unlock this one. Fantastic guest, amazing episode that more people need to be able to hear.

Zach Young

An episode I send my parents

Chandler

Excellent excellent excellent

Major bit me
>>129251063

US dollar, deficit spending, its vast service and financial sectors, all underpinned by US imperialism. Further, even if millions of Americans are against Israel (even if they refuse support Palestinian groups like Hamas), they still will vote for Zionist politicians and parties, so as to protect other self-articulated interests, whether it’s for abortion rights, increases in minimum wage or social spending, for “a green new deal,” etc. I used to support Bernie Sanders, an outfight Zionist and collaborator in this current genocide. I’ll never vote for another Zionist like him again, but this is not a popular opinion, most Americans who vote are going to continue rubber stamping the genocidal careers of their favorite political parties for the reasons listed above

Erik Bourre

incredible episode! maybe a future Jon Elmer ep. Felix and him can discuss the resistance in depth just a thought

Major bit me
>>129251063

And what do you call that if not genocide collaboration to advance narrow class interests? The Chapos had Amber a few episodes ago, she started going on about how the infrastructure bill was good for jobs but Bernie would’ve done it better, and I’m thinking “shit do you people ever even wonder the money comes from for this stuff? How are you all gonna get this upset over the Palestinian genocide, and still support the distribution of the war loot?”

Dan
>>129238868

“Look at the free blankets and hot soup those pampered tornado victims are getting! Nooo!!”

Tristan Abbott

Who reads the poem at the end?

Dan
>>129260046

A monstrous, evil state without a shred of culture. Man, the Israelis learned everything they could from the British Empire

Simon Maraya

Incredible interview, thank you.

etienne

very rare event where on the same day CTH makes me want to off myself and Radio War Nerd offers me a comforting blend of movie mindset takes

Daniel Epstein

feels like a return to form, always love the fun eps, but really missed hearing from people on the ground of various struggles like this. thank you thank you thank you

Jimmy McMillan
>>129284997

I agree this should be a free episode. Feed us patreons the unimportant but entertaining slop and make these widely available

William Vetter

Snooze fest. Did appreciate that the last couple episodes weren't all gaza though. But if you want to hear a bunch of terrible shit in a un funny matter this is for you

Jimmy McMillan

I don't think evangelical Christians lost support for Israel because they marketed themselves as gay. They're just using Israel as canon fodder to help trigger the apocalypse. Doing gay shit might even help

Kevin Haagenti
>>129302439

Cry about it, bitch. Next time, just don’t listen instead of asking for the manager in your yelp review.

William Vetter
>>129302439

Called me a Karen and a bitch, your concern for the Palestinians must be really deep

Antipaganda

Can we get some discussion on the pod about how Israel is transitioning from killing via bombs to killing via hunger and disease? I feel like the 40,000 deaths or more we've seen up to this point are going to be only the start, if Israel is allowed to continue its current strategy.

Lauren

Unlock this so I can send it to my mum pls

Christopher Price

my stance is that Israel should have been located in Kaliningrad

Fernslinger
>>129235668

Daniel Hepburn has been cropping up down here to criticise the Chapos everytime they say Israel is bad and Sparky never likes the episode regardless!

Creamy Goodness

“You don’t have time to rape when you expect a counter attack” is a completely bullshit take. Please tell this to women who were raped in school bathrooms, poorly lit parking lots, in alleys. It can be over in under a minute. “There is no evidence of rape”. Besides first hand witness accounts as well as footage posted by Gazans and Hamas fighters on social media bragging about it. I love Chapo but this supposed expert didn’t even look? Im not fucking w/ Israel, I’m not a fan, USA should not fund them, but this guy is cooking with BS. “How do you knock down a house with ak47” idk dude, like 2 RPGs? This guys sounds completely enamored and infatuated with Hamas.

K H
>>129330487

There is 0 evidence of rape. You can keep pretending otherwise but the episode addresses it. El zilcho. Joe Biden didn't even see a picture of it next to all the dead baby heads. A rapist preying on women when they go to the bathroom is a bit different than a soldier in the middle of a guerilla war operation expecting and in fact experiencing air and armor counter attack. I am glad to see IJDF purchasing chapo subscripts. Keep doing what you're doing, it is worth it to change some hearts n minds. "First" hand accounts." Lmao

A.L.
>>129330487

You really said soldiers in a war zone don't rape? I dunno about that one, pal. It seems to me if there's a constant in the history of warfare, it's that one, even with a counter-attack pending. Imagine saying that one about americain soldiers in Vietnam: "but Vietcong could have attacked them, they didn't have the time!". Propaganda efforts notwhistanding, Ockham's razor is very much in favor of "there was rapes", that "there was 0 rapes, period", and saying otherwise is pretty delusional. That's some clean war bullshit, like a reverse Uno card from Israël's "most moral army in the world'.

K H
>>129330487

0 evidence of it. The Vietcong would be the Palestinians in this case. I'm also going to go to say if any side is doing any raping it is probably the side literally masturbating corpses. I looked up Israeli death toll and the first result was a cumpilation. IDF rapists need to be charged and Palestinian women believed. The Israeli women need to simply be found. Also. Occams razor is the simplest explanation which explains all observable evidence. You stupid fuck. You need to have and present evidence. Otherwise I can say you're parents raped you. Occam's razor. Statistically, raped kids are raped by their parents. Therefore you specifically were raped by your parents. IJDF or some truly brain damaged posting.

K H
>>129330487

Occam's razor. The IDF committed rapes. Occam's razor.

Jan Meyer

As a German it has been a wretched experience the last months. I had thought that we were taught that genocide is bad and that "Never Again" is a call for a world without fascism and genocide. Turns out, it is was me who misunderstood the lesson: It is not that genocide is bad, but that you mustn't do it to white people and that "Never Again" means no guy with a toothbrush mustache ever again. Silly me.

Jordan Velasco
>>129330487

Bro really just said "nu-uh, only one side did the bad stuff and if there was bad stuff, it was israel, occams razor" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

K H
>>129330487

You're the "bro said" idiot. I remember you. Yea, only one side is committing genocide and they admitted to shelling their own kibbutz. So if we are attributing war crimes without evidence, we may as well attribute them to the side already committing the most severe one as found by the ICJ.

Dan Baggar

Please unlock this one, great episode

Pete Jackson
>>129330487

How are you guys Chapo patrons with takes like this. Embarrassing. I'll repeat what's been said repeatedly: there's no evidence of rape, certainly not systemic rape. That's just simply the truth

Zachary Forman

Would anyone have a link to the statistic mentioned 68 minutes into this weeks show about Germany treatment of anti-zionist Jews?

A.L.
>>129330487

"Therefore you specifically were raped by your parents. IJDF or some truly brain damaged posting." Never seen someone having that much of a normal one lmao. My post was "armies rape in the field and it's kinda sus when someone says that one absolutly don't" and half your post is "But the IDF rapes!" : wow, I didn't knew that, you're telling me this for the first time.

Michael Bailey

Y'all should put this one out to the public.

Lu

Great interview, wish this one wasn’t paywalled

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

If a guy describes raping women on TikTok, or posts videos of women stripped from the waist down and dead and says they raped her, you don’t take that as evidence? You know a lot of guys bragging about rapes they didn’t commit?

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

Again this interviewee and you are totally glossing over images of women stripped and killed, legs spread, while guys are on their phones to their boys bragging they fucked them.

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

I like Chapo but that doesn’t mean I have to endorse every point they make. I very much dislike Israel but that doesn’t mean I’ll jump to believing everything the aggrieved say about them. For instance, they’re in awe of the Hamas attempts on Israeli markava tanks. The footage of crazy explosions coming off the markavas are mostly the reactive armor systems deploying. They’re losing their 18 year old majors to friendly fire but the hardware is holding up remarkably well. I haven’t seen images of totally burned out husks of tanks like you see in Ukraine.

Mark Schneider
>>129330487

Both the Electronic Intifada and the very rightly respected Grayzone have both shown that not a single case of rape has been documented. Further, they have traced down the origin of the stories Gettleman used: the Zaka cult (whose founder was a serial rapist of boys & girls, men & women) & a guy from the Music Festival who was interviewed the day after and said NOTHING about rapes while he was hiding in a ditch, then 3 weeks later created an elaborate story about witnessing rapes, breasts being cut off & passed around (?WTF-- just bizarre) etc. Oh, & then he monetized his "witness" to do a twisted Fash Fashion show, for profit!! . . you're playing into the "Brown men are rapists" hasbara is sad & sick. Grow the eff up! It'll be interesting IF any actual evidence comes forward, but so far there is 0, over 4 months after Oct. 7, as others have pointed out.

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

I didn’t read the NYT story. I’m going purely off videos posted by those gazans (presumably Hamas but he’s claiming ordinary gazans breached the fence as well) where women are stripped, spread, and dead. I speak Arabic.

Liam CZA Noble

Make this one public guys. There's friends I want to send this to

Wesley Thompson

Excellent episode. Thank you for sharing EI with the audience. I agree it should be opened up to all

K H
>>129330487

What guy? Where were they? Who was she? If the IDF didn't immediately lie about beheaded babies(fIRsT hAnD aCCoUntS), then lie about a BLANK calendar, then make up fake recordings of Al Queida and lie about shooting a hospital I would entertain the claims. However Israel seems to do nothing but fabricate claims and fake video evidence that falls apart under scrutiny. So no. If no one identified a woman supposedly raped in a video, nor where it occurred, nor when it occurred, nor the rapist, no it is not evidence. Like the laptop that turned out to be property of IDF soldiers in the Al Shifa video, for all we know the dude in whatever video you describe is another IDF soldier. By all means, tell us who the woman is and where she is and when and where the video came from. Cheap sophistry is not evidence. Did they present these videos to the ICJ? Did they allow independent investigation by the UN? You will have to do better hasbot.

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

You can ask anyone who saw combat in Iraq. Children’s heads come off from the catastrophic shock waves of high explosive. I also thought it was probably not true they beheaded babies, but if there were babies in the combat zone exposed to HE ordinance (whether it be from Hamas rpgs or Israel firing from apaches) then it’s likely the blast decapitated them. I’m not saying Hamas did it since both sides were firing, it’s just babies heads come off in blasts. Biden probably saw that. As for the rocket, until a third party can take soil samples there’s no way to know for sure whose rocket it was. You are more than able to look for yourself to find the videos I’ve very clearly described. I suspect posting a link in the patreon app will get me banned. I can tell you it’s not IDF soldiers in the video because the men are in civilian clothing screaming joyfully with an either Bedouin or Palestinian accent (they’re similar) and it was released on telegram channels where other more polished Hamas stuff is released.

K H
>>129330487

A.L. parents rape their children. So it's a bit sus of you to claim your parents didn't specifically rape you. Just because I have no evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen specifically to you. In fact I think it also specifically happened on Oct 7th 2023, because why not.

Louie Luke

Please unlock this one. I have so many family members who are in support of Israel who need to hear from this man.

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

Interested in the difference between rape and “systematic” rape? If anyone in this thread bothered to follow Hamas’ fighters own telegram or other outlets that *they run* you can see them clearly hosing civilians with machine guns and firing RPGs blindly into traffic.

Creamy Goodness

If ALs parents were releasing footage of them hosing civilians and firing RPGs into cars full of people I’d be more willing to believe they also committed sexual violence. Hamas fighters themselves posted this stuff. “Oh yeah they were engaged in wanton murder (or “resistance”) but they’d never rape women so the videos of them doing the killing and filming the raped women must actually be IDF soldiers amongst the flag waving Hamas soldiers on their motorcycles thanking god without Israeli accents. Extremely noble take. Israel is an apartheid state. It’s awful. I like Chapo a lot (less post Christman) but their completely understandable disgust at Israel and the ethnic cleansing have suspended their typically reasoned evaluation of discrete events within the conflict. I’ll just phrase it like that.

K H
>>129330487

Haven't seen a single video that wasn't targeting IDF soldiers. The only videos I've seen of attacks on civilians have been of Israeli air attack, snipers, or settlers attacking Palestinians or Ultra Orthodox Jews.

K H
>>129330487

Lmao. You are honestly trying to run the beheaded baby line. Amazing. We don't need to ask people from Iraq what happens to the heads of exploding babies because there are dozens, maybe hundreds of videos of Palestinian children with their skulls falling apart due to "HE shockwaves" caused by Israrli bombs. We know who does and is doing the blasting. We know what prisoners claim they were sexually assaulted and it isn't anyone released by Hamas. You are going to need to get more subs for you guys. If you got like 1000 more IJDF Patrons in the Chapo chat I think you might have a chance. To be safe you should get like 5000 subs. In fact if there aren't 10,000 Indian dudes hey babying at Amber you don't want to win.

Creamy Goodness

Where did I say Hamas beheaded babies? I specifically said the opposite. You’re either disingenuous or illiterate. You’ve had too much college, dude. The college, in my day, wasn’t so strong. But the college today? Way too strong.

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

The very first footage from October 7 (before Hamas polished and released theirs) were posted on twitter and of Hamas fighters shooting randomly at passing cars. Wanton slaughter. You can google it. Human Rights Watch, for which Israel has utter contempt, has a whole page on it. I can’t share videos here as I assume I’ll get banned. It’s easy to find if you’re not too inebriated on University.

Ryan Kohler

I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw you guys had Ali as a guest and the episode did not disappoint. I was just thinking today what a bummer not having Matt around since I became a subscriber but showcasing electronic intifada to our fellow Western socialists and fellow chapo stans has reinvigorated my faith! Well done 👍

June Hurme

I did it, cancelled my subscription to the New York Times!

Slily

This episode needs to be unlocked

Slily

For someone claiming to dislike Israel, one of the patron is really advocating for IDF in the comments. They are screaming about it the allegations of Hamas’ rape based one or two videos (that may or may not exist/fabricated/be true). While blatantly ignoring the systematic evidence of rape of Palestinian women by IDF and the settlers over the past 75 years.

John Galterio

Need to hear Jon Elmer and Felix talking about al-Qassam Brigades footage, the military wing of Hamas.

Craig

Bruh that poem 😭

Jeff St. Andrews

🖤❤️‍🔥🖤❤️‍🔥🖤❤️‍🔥

mrakobesiye

I'm a woman, have been a subscriber since 2016 and have rolled my eyes at every single dumb Chapo sexism scandal but the rape denialism is very disturbing to me. I get the critique of rape propaganda but the idea that it didn't happen at all is just crazy

mrakobesiye (edited)

Comment edits

2024-02-11 08:00:42 Why die on this hill? 30 minutes in and it's mostly been about rape
2024-02-11 07:54:06 When Liz Franczak was on to talk about this she sort of pulled you back from the edge. I think that was a good instinct
>>129394352

When Liz Franczak was on to talk about this she sort of pulled you back from the edge. I think that was a good instinct

Creamy Goodness
>>129386511

I’m not advocating for idf. I have not denied a single thing the idf has done in the history of Israel. I referenced only what this guest alleged in this episode.

K H
>>129394352

They're clutching their pearls guys. This is the last straw! Condemn hamas raping those severed baby heads right now! Are you a White woman enticing us to believe unverified rape propaganda btw?

K H
>>129330487

Too inebriated on University? The K Fabe on normal Chapo enjoyer dropped pretty quick there. My understanding is all the rapes occur only where the Hamas and Chabad tunnels meet. The great dream city of O'reely¿ Why does Human Rights Watch have contempt for Israel normal Chapo Listener?

K H
>>129371535

I disagree. No refunds. They need to buy more. I want Matt in power armor by year end.

Andrew S

I loved this episode. Ali - Thank you for all you do.

Graham Sparrow

Wow guys, this interview was one I enjoyed most from CTH. Ali is amazing. Thanks for doing this.

Matelda
>>129394352

I am a woman and the instrumentalism of rape and female mutilation to facilitate genocide, torture, and mutilation of (other) women is a lot more disturbing to me than skepticism of rape claims, especially when skepticism is so obviously warranted. If mass, planned, systematic rape by Hamas didn't happen, women have a right to know. We have a right to freedom from the fear and enslavement wrought by belief in a level of threat that doesn't exist. We can't be free if we allow our desecration to be useful to powerful men. It's been hard for me to watch American and Israeli lawyers and politicians tell disgusting, unsubstantiated stories of female humiliation and sexual torture in front of Congress, at the ICJ, and everywhere with barely-contained glee.

gormless scum

so this guys says nothing bad happened on Oct 7 then?! this beyond the pale even for there guys. enough to get them demonetized for sure

Frank

Adding to the call for unlocking this ep

etienne
>>129425246

being this dumb is like being dead: you don't know it but it hurts everyone around you

Scot Forsythe
>>129371535

Disgusting hasbarra cunt lets drop you into occupied territory and see how long it takes you to get raped by X’hanas or shot by the ID F —you fucking bitch

Creamy Goodness
>>129371535

I was there in 2006. I’ve been detained in airports (San Jose and Heathrow) for attending pro Palestinian events. I suspect none of you have done anything but tweet and seethe. I tell ya, that’s not feeding any orphans.

Creamy Goodness
>>129330487

“The university is too strong” comparing it weed in “my day” is something Will and Matt would say ~1+ years ago. One of my fav bits. Israel has contempt for HRW because they blame groups like HRW for turning American liberals against Israel. But in this *one instance* they also reported on Hamas targeting civilians.

Creamy Goodness
>>129371535

I like Chapo tho. But if you listen to any podcast and 100000% agree you’re straight peasant brained.

Tyler Sutherland

Uh, Ali, the GDR hired Nazis and staffed most of the KDP,the government bureaucracy, and the courts just like the Bonn Republic lol. No offense my man,but to pretend otherwise is whitewashing.

K H
>>129330487

Your joke wasn't hard to understand. It was the fact you blame college for skepticism of genocidal freaks. I asked why does Human Rights Watch have contempt for Israel, which is what you wrote. So do please explain why Human Rights Watch has "contempt" for Israel.

purple splotch

This was an awful episode filled with propaganda. Hamas is winning the war? 🤣 Cope harder

Patrick
>>129388155

Agreed, would love to hear Felix and John Elmer talking resistance

lars

Excellent episode. Ali and EI do great work.

Will Wade
>>129394352

I don't think anybody is denying the possibility of individual rapes occurring. Women are nearly always raped during conflicts. I am willing to bet the IDF will be raping Palestinian women during their invasion. The entire point of the discussion is that Hamas was accused of using systemic rape as a terror tactic, and this claim has no evidence backing it up. You are falling for Israeli propaganda when you think Hamas has done anything exceptionally worse than the IDF.

Will Wade
>>129376284

Part of me thinks it's better for Matt's health that he has to sit this one out.

Will Wade

You guys should get Max Blumenthal on to explain his articles and coverage of the war. He has been debunking IDF claims every week. I also think he does a good job of highlighting the sick parts of Israeli culture that are feasting on this slaughter.

HarshMalarkey
>>129394352

I think rejecting disinformation used to excuse a genocidal campaign is a good instinct.

Gus Fessant
>>129394352

honestly though, it really doesn't matter if Hamas committed rape or not, it's just a red herring if Israel had not retaliated to this attack with genocidal fury we could focus on the rape debate and the debate over murdered children and all the other crimes Hamas committed but the simple reality is that no matter what Hamas did, Israel is committing unprecedented (for the region) evil in order to ethnically cleanse Gaza and that's what needs to be focused on, that's what needs to be stopped

Jimmy B

Israeli money being put to work in these comments

Sparky
>>129505168

Hasbara decided the greywolves might be a receptive audience, oops

Sparky
>>129482735

Blumenthal is right about Israel but really sacrifices his credibility by working for Sputnik and RT and overall playing defense for the Kremlin about Ukraine. Not great!

K H
>>129330487

Uuuhhhhh I asked "Why do you think Human Rights Watch has contempt for Israel?" I didn't say you defended Israel. I asked you to explain your statement about why it is Human Rights Watch would have "contempt" for Israel.

Creamy Goodness

Because they abuse human rights. How obtuse are you? No one in the thread questions that. I’m saying in this instance they’re **also** hosting and urging investigation of video showing Hamas wantonly slaughtering cars full of civilians.

waterbird
>>129505168

They got bullied off of twitter months ago, weird they'd show up here tho. really fuckin random

Jason Matthews
>>129505168

Remember folks, they're on a hunting expedition. A mounted head of Leftwing Antisemitism is the most prized trophy on a Likudnik's mantle.

David Heslin
>>129330487

Thanks for bringing a semblance of reason to the comments. I had to bail on the episode when the guest gave his utterly fanciful interpretation of the October 7 “events” – unfortunately it just destroys his credibility and makes it hard to know what else is spin and propaganda. I’m not looking for a fight with tankies and Grayzone readers (life is too short) but the thing they don’t get is that it’s not even remotely necessary to cape for Netanyahu’s pals Hamas in order to fight against this genocide, because anyone who isn’t an idiot understands that nothing about the (broadly accurate) mainstream account of October 7 could possibly justify anything that has happened since. Instead, by refusing to acknowledge what happened and painting yourself into a corner as a fringe weirdo conspiracy theorist who thinks Hamas did nothing wrong, you’ve essentially accepted the terms of the Zionists’ argument. It’s a total own goal and useless distraction from the fight against the brutal mass murder of Gazans and the cause of Palestinian rights and sovereignty.

Cameron Van Berkum
>>129451448

This was a really powerful episode, fellas. Thank you all for sincerely engaging with Palestine and bringing electronic Intifada on. This and Felix's interview a few years ago with Mohammad Alsaafin and the episode with Mark Ames I've listened on repeat in recent weeks.

Cameron Van Berkum
>>129394352

Thank you for the perspective, Matelda. This is the only time the US govt and trolls ever invoke "protecting women" to justify US and Israeli intervention.

K H
>>129330487

David the initial reports not only reported 40 beheaded babies, it failed to report the fact the attack targeted multiple military installations, and also neglected the fact Israeli armor shelled kibbutz indiscriminately. Mainstream reporting simply parrots the IDF, so how you identify that as being broadly accurate without being a hasbarist or a kind of moron is baffling. Where do you figure mainstream reporting got their information? What are your thoughts on Israel's refusal to allow UN investigation of rape allegations? Do you also think Human Rights Watch has "contempt" for Israel? If so, why do they?

MiCast

What a magnificent episode. Hats off. Powerful.

natfos 💌

Outstanding episode

DZ

Refusing to see that yeah some Palestinians do horrible things despite their cause being just enables not just those specific acts, but serves to prevent any actual change. Part of how capitalism remains unchanged. Those who are able to identify some of the root problems, like Chapo, voice themselves in such a way that makes sure they ignore "the bad stuff" and so remain unable to influence whats actually going on. I can see christman for example understanding this

Jason Matthews
>>129567254

Do you really think that Hamas is somehow more influenced by powerless pro-palestine western opinion than by elite pro-zionist consensus, to say nothing of the army occupying their land? No one, as far as I can tell, has described any of the resistance groups as "the most moral army." The polarization is skewed so far in the opposite direction that it's almost impossible to make a useful comparison.

DZ
>>129567254

Yeah I see that. I guess the point is chapo isn't the nyt. It's not about influencing hamas or some foreign government, its about internal discussion in the so called radical left in the US. In such a forum it would be much more productive to discuss those dark sides of the Palestinian struggle as well. Not doing that essentially leaves gaps in peoples knowledge and makes them less effective in driving change

David Heslin
>>129330487

It's hard work figuring out the facts amid all the spin on both sides, but as far as I can tell, some Israelis (but far from the majority) were killed in "friendly fire" incidents on October 7, but the truth is what most people think it is, i.e. that most of the civilian victims at the festival and in the kibbutzes were killed indiscriminately by militants and sometimes tortured beforehand. I was pretty sceptical about the rape claims too, and agree that Israel have been weirdly cagey about the whole thing, but it seems like some women probably were raped before being killed (which is not the same thing as mass rape or it necessarily being used as a tactical strategy) and also that Israel and its friendly media outlets have been deliberately playing that up to distract from the genocide in Gaza. Most of the info I get is from The Intercept, Al Jazeera and Haaretz. I recognise they have biases and need to be read critically, but at least I feel like I'm getting some version of the truth. The reason I don't bother with sites like The Grayzone is that they don't do much in the way of original reportage; instead, they tend to selectively quote from sources like the BBC and Haaretz when it suits them, and then, as anyone can figure out by simply clicking on the links, clearly misrepresent the articles they're citing. For me, EI can also go in that "pay no mind" group. Why bother reading something when you know you're probably getting bullshitted? Otherwise I have no opinion of HRW.

Matt
>>129451448

Oh a paying chapo subscriber that’s running cover for Israel using the 🤣 emoji? You must just really love “explaining”

Matt
>>129373699

Genuinely curious, what do you think “college” has to do with this? Something I never learned about in college is the word in Hebrew that means “explaining”, have you ever heard of it?

etienne
>>129567254

i remember when felix described DSA pre-bernie as a meeting of 55 year old guys where they have to prefix everything by saying they disavow Maduro

DZ
>>129567254

You do know Bernie lost, yes? this is not what I'm referring to. It's being afraid that if you see reality as complex your political action will lack force and clarity, when in fact that nuance is what makes the action itself possible, as opposed to feeling bad and posting. Again the irony is that Matt Christman is a champion of exactly that. The understanding of historical nuance not as something preventing political effectiveness, but encouraging it. Just ask any Syrian what they make of Mr. Abunimah here. This interview is the pod version of dumb Netflix shows presenting the west bank as some version of southern california under occupation

Pamela Beegle

THANK YOU for putting this outside the paywall! LOVE YOU GUYS - hope Matt is recovering well.

K H
>>129330487

Where are you getting that people were tortured before being killed on Oct 7th? Without independent investigation(which Israel always refuses) there is no way to know who killed most of the people, but we do know heavy weapons were employed by Israel and that any Palestinian militia had extremely limited resources. Limited not only by what they could smuggle, but what they could physically carry and expend to overcome Israeli soldiers at multiple military installations. We also know Israel straight up hunted down 3 released prisoners waving a white flag. We also know none of the Hamas prisoners have reported rape or torture and that Israel lied to the parent of at least 1 prisoner and told him she was killed by Hamas. So I'm not sure what spin you are seeing that isn't from Israel, which is not only constantly lying, but fabricating evidence through videos and recordings released to Western media. What is the spin from the other side? Saying they didn't rape anyone during a specific military operation? Was SEAL Team 6 raping people as they raided and assassinated Osama?

Valerie

This was a really amazing episode, thank you. Sometimes i get distracted while listening and dont process everything, but I was glued for this.

Percle
>>129425246

he literally never said or implied anything like that but cool just make shit up I guess

maudlin

amazing - one of the best things ive ever heard in my life. Thank you

fisher ilijasic

best ep in a while. bravo. would love to see this guest again

Sam Ray

Israel also losing the war in the comments. Powerful ep.

Sam Ray
>>129230383

UAWC Union of Agricultural Work Committees - Palestine

Xena

imagine being left in tears after an episode Chapo RIP Refaat Alareer

Julian Trupe
>>129440390

Unfortunately the IDF and Israel are often linked to Nazis. There was a photo going around today which featured an IDF training facility and a member with a tattoo of the Sonnenrad

Kevin Spicer

This was beautiful, thank you!

grymm

The people I'm around daily are the type to try to make you seem crazy or depraved for understanding the things discussed here. It is exhausting. Thank you all for doing this.