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Hell on Earth - Appendix 3: MONEY (feat. Patrick Wyman) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-29 11:00:03
Imported:
2023-03

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Content

We’re joined by author and podcaster Patrick Wyman (Tides of History, The Verge) to discuss developments in money, finance and banking during the pre-modern period. As well as, of course, those dastardly Fuggers.

Find Tides of History here: https://wondery.com/shows/tides-of-history/

Find “The Verge: Reformation, Renaissance, and Forty Years that Shook the World” here: https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/patrick-wyman/the-verge/9781538701171/

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Comments

Anonymous

Growing increasingly distressed that this amazing series will have to end and I’ll have to try pretending that Will talking about movies will be a worthy replacement.

SlowTrickle

Imagine telling your grandpa in 1955 that in 2023 you could buy a 10 pound tv with a picture that might as well be real life flattened out for $27 their money

Robert Sayre

I'm not an expert in any of this, but the descriptions of finance sure sounded like Hawala (wikipedia will do here) to me. Then, I found "New perspective on the evolution of double-entry bookkeeping" by JL Williams. That makes it sound it like this technique comes with the Hindu/Arabic numerals we use now.

Alec

I fugged my money up (damn) Now i can’t re-up

Anonymous

Excited to see a War Nerd appearance next EP

Rohmer Simpson

The real question is, how can I get mad at this episode? Uhhhhh Fugger apologia? Wow sir. Sit down. Take several seats How’s that

Anonymous

best podcast miniseries ever. love that you’ve put this together. please keep making appendices forever, thank you

Anonymous

Pls bring on Mike Duncan. He has nothing to do now that Revolutions is done.

Anonymous

1 thaler = 1 oz silver = roughly $25 usd. 1 PS5 = 20 thalers

J P 3

Thanks for another great episode guys. With respect to the "why did capital start flowing north?" question, part of the answer is in William Dalrymple's great book "The Anarchy" about the history of the British East India Company. Part of the short answer is that the joint stock companies were able to bypass the middle men (the Venetians, etc), by establishing direct links with resource markets. In the case of British, this maneuver was made necessary in the 1500s and 1600s by Henry VIII's split from the Catholic Church and the response of Spain and France. e.g. the English established a trading relationship with the Ottomans after being shut out of large parts of the continental trading system.

Philip P Deveney

Patrick wyman. Nuanced takes on history taking into account the complexities of material, social, and cultural relationships. Infinitely better than listening to Norman Finkelstein rant about how one of the richest men in the worlds childhood trauma justifies him killing thousands of people in a war of occupation.

David Andrews

It would have been impossible to do a better job on this series than you two did. A+

William

Missing the mention of Genoa and their collab with Spain; dutch started to rise after Genoa as their monopoly on Baltic trade allowed them the surpluses to invest in other… “activities“ let’s call them. The long twentieth century answers Matt’s question about “capitalism “ moving from Italy, up the rhine, then to the Low countries and to england

Nick Muscatiello

Really enjoyed the slight variations on the pronunciation of Fugger every time it was sad

EricVulgaris

This whole series makes me want to play the board game Here I Stand again.

Ozzie

Meet the Fuggers

Anonymous

Hell ya love me some Pat Wyman since way back in the Heavy Hands days

Anonymous

Thanks so much for popularizing medieval and early modern history—you guys rule. Listeners might find this of interest: https://againstthecurrent.org/atc220/echoes-of-money-in-times-past/

bruce moment

wyman is always such a good guest, he gets it

skrrt vonnegut

Life is like a hurricane; here in; Augsburg Fuck Tales, oowwooo

J P 3

There's a really good interview on Lapham's Quarterly with William Dalrymple (Episode 49), which is a nice compliment to this episode and the series. e.g. How did England rise to become the pre-eminent economic global and political power (until its decline in the early 20th century)? What was the impact of weapons development during the 30 years war on European imperial power in the centuries that followed? Some real useful details in terms of the development of global capitalism, the formation of the British East India Company, the movement towards colonization, etc.

Discount Cagliostro

This is a great series, and I really hope they keep doing projects like this. I do feel like the proposed thesis of this period being uniquely critical in the "genesis of capitalism" is a bit forced though. Critical, sure, but hardly unique. They themselves discuss multiple times earlier in the episode how many of the essential innovations of commercial capitalism, such as financial instruments, accounting methods, insurance, and legally recognized commercial partnerships, existed even in the middle ages or before (the main innovation actually occurring in this period being joint-stock companies). Regarding industrial capitalism, there are also important developments before (the putting-out system in Italian and Flemish textiles) and after (Colbert's domestic monopoly factories) the 30 Years War period leading up to the Industrial Revolution. Doesn't take away from how cool this period and series has been though!

CJ Horton

Any nonfiction book suggestions on 17th century companies (e.g. Dutch East India) and economics?