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608 - The World’s Mack (3/7/22) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-03-08 04:13:45
Imported:
2022-05

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We’re back from the first leg of our tour of the South and here to look at the responses to war in Ukraine brewing in the foreign policy op-ed world. We’ve got reading series by Shadi Hamid in the Atlantic and our old friend Max Boot in WaPo, both asking “well, yes, American foreign intervention has been very bad in the past, but maybe this time it would be very good?”

Tickets to Houston, Dallas and New Orleans shows still available at: https://www.chapotraphouse.com/live

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Comments

EUGENE HETZEL

Seriously, Reddit is right there with that groupnonthink.

David Cox

I notice Chomsky's views on euro events of late have been played down a fair bit - most likely dismissed as 'whataboutism' by the libs in the middle - he is as usual aghast at the hypocrisy on display

etienne

funny thing is that Noam Chomsky's lignustics work is completely discredited and useless. and he stole the basic tenet of his media criticism work from another guy. and he loves the khmer rouge. really not a whole lot chomsky said and did that is really salvageable in tyool 2022

Anonymous

This was painful to listen to.

Declan Kennedy

The best possible outcome in Ukraine at this point is probably that we don't keep sending guns and cash and reopen serious diplomatic channels, which will ultimately result in Russia getting most of what they wanted in the first place. No matter what you think of Russia, not a fan of the modern flavour personally but it takes different strokes, the reality is that we should have done that first because the alternative was a lot of Ukrainians dying for no reason. That said, I think the most likely outcome is we keep sending guns and cash which get funnelled to militias and even more Ukrainians die for no reason.

TheSingleE
>>79509894

my sister did actually study linguistics in college and i got an earful of chomsky back before like 2015 and actually did think it was pretty interesting stuff so i'm interested in some elaboration on that

Null_null
>>79513514

There's no president that exists within the realm of America's political imagination who would do what is right and just here (not even Bernie). That's just the facts.

Null_null
>>79513514

I think America shouldn't have been sending weapons and aid to militias prior to the invasion, but now that you have a full on resistance (one that isn't a color revolution, btw) it'd be hard to argue that the US government shouldn't support a sovereign country begging for our help. This creates a number of contradictions in how we run our FP, and most of them reveal its inherent white supremacy, but mostly it makes more sense to defend Ukraine for geopolitical reasons.

Null_null
>>79513514

Once again, the US should've negotiated a deal before Russia invaded--especially since elites were so sure they would invade! But now that Russia has invaded on a scale we never expected, the only way the US has any diplomatic bargaining power is if Ukraine can keep resisting Russia and wear it down militarily and economically. That's the reality here. You can't say "The US should give Putin everything he wants right now" if he can possibly just go and take it. Especially since Zelensky needs to be talked off a ledge here. He's currently asking for a no-fly zone.

Benjamin Coke

Just booked a trip to NOLA to see the boys and mystery guests, trueanon?

ADIFT

A dex int and bleed build?! Felix was the only member of the pod i still respected. But now i don't know.

etienne
>>79509894

I went overboard for the sake of landing a sick online dunk but here's what I heard: Noam Chomsky's Universal Grammar thesis proposes that all human language share a fundamental structure and that all spoken and written languages are just sets of rules built out of some fundamental toolkit of language features. That's very useful for computers because then we can build super strict programming and data languages and parsers but for IRL human linguistics it's been discredited and there's an alternative view that I can't explain because I don't know shit but basically that stuff is fuzzy and you can't make broad generalizations that apply to all languages. Also I read a while ago a big thing about his attitude towards the Khmer Rouge which again exaggerated the actual level of Chomsky's support for that specific era of Cambodian politics (which btw was a CIA front) that contained a line that went something along the lines of "Noam Chomsky never agreed with any socialist polity that existed in the real world until he encountered Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge" which is a thermonuclear radiation burn imo And Manufacturing Consent has the same concept as Inventing Reality by Michael Parenti which casts doubt as to why Chomsky gets most of the credit for that bit of media criticism. I think that covers it. Once again this is not a thought-out criticism of Chomsky just a glorified online dunk

etienne
>>79513514

everybody on both the russian side and the "west" or at least the poli leadership and media figures are all completely out for fucking blood and they won't back down one inch, and everyone who so much as suggests otherwise is gonna get backstabbed and crucified. NATO hashing out a deal that Russia would buy that includes both the Republics and Crimea would be like the Afghanistan pullout times one thousand. At this point the best we can probably hope is that Biden sacrifices his mainstream credibility *once again* to get us a last offramp deal before decades of ukrainian civil war or worse, a great powers confrontation It's grim as fuck.

Anonymous

Delusion down to the cinders... lots to look forward to lol

etienne

man i accidentally went on the daily beast web site and heard about a thing called the "durham report" that alleges that the Clinton campaign spied on Trump 2016 and is supposedly a big deal in conservative circles and i had a huge flashback of the like blueanon russiagate era. Those were the times man. Some people are out there believing that the ukraine war is a distraction from an american political impropriety affair from twenty six teen

Eliot O'Callaghan

I know I’m commenting late but does anyone know what song they play around 38-39. “Let’s have a war- blame the middle class”

Jack Theakston

It’s Mickey Rooney who famously portrayed the Asian stereotype, not Andy Rooney (although the latter is also contextually amusing.)

TangiePower

Too many people have super hero movie brain where they think it’s as simple as “with great power comes great responsibility, if something bad happening we have to get involved.” But it is fucked up imperial hubris to assume your intervention will, or could possibly, make things better. It’s arrogance. Our evil leaders know better, but too many regular people have drank deeply from this imperial American savior fever dream. Folks gotta wake up.

Jon Lyons
>>79685476

Yeah like it's a pretty straightforward and appealing moral argument in general, but there's a huge qualitative difference between like stepping in when you see somebody's getting bullied and oh I dunno *a war* You get all kinds of insanity if you start to think of nations or systems or whatever in the same terms as people but just scaled way up.

Anonymous
>>79509894

What’s with the Chomsky slander? Chomsky didn’t steal from Parenti. Inventing reality by Parenti even cites Chomsky and Herman’s work from 1979, The Political Economy of Human Rights, which covers similar ground about how the media frames events and why. It’s a topic with many practitioners and theorists especially Edward Herman. Herman and Chomsky have a particular propaganda model that is similar but different from Parenti’s theory of communication in capitalist society.

etienne
>>79509894

thank you for bringing some much needed nuance to my post that i told you is a unresearched online dunk attempt

bruce moment
>>79512449

Who is nihilistic? Them, or the liberal hawks braying for the first step to nuclear war??

bruce moment
>>79685476

The funny thing lib hawks do is assume that America has absolute military projection power anywhere on earth while in the same breath saying that you can't just make all geopolitics centered on America's blameworthiness