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Breaking Bad 2x12 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-29 21:01:18
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Anonymous

All those theories of last episode have gone out the window huh? Lol can’t wait to watch this.

Jon Exler

Walt wasn't going to risk them going to jail, this is a trap house - his prints are in this house, he's called the house phone many times. A situation like this where Jesse would have been arrested would have definitely given police direct access to Walt, not to mention the fact that Jane blackmailed him hours earlier and would most certainly snitch on him to get herself out of jail. Best explanation I've been able to come up with

Justin

Walt's "nice job wearing the pants" is a call back to when Jesse told him the same thing after Skyler visited his house in season 1

Jon Exler

Patreon's processor takes so long they do so little to help their creators, I stg. I bet Chad uploaded Succession HOURS ago, but patreon's processing crap is what's really holding back our favorite swede

diegesischad
>>120942909

so you're totally right but we were on a tight schedule and had to push succession. we were already a week ahead from doing a twofer on eps 4x2+3. sorry for the delay.

Chris Bruneau

Girls; I understand your frustration. But please don't quit the show. There is a reason many people think this is the greatest TV drama ever created--these are extremely complex characters, worthy of both love and hate!!

Chris Bruneau

I remember the first time I read Game of Thrones, I got to the Red Wedding scene, and literally threw the book against the wall!!! But, I continued reading the story because the story was soooo compelling, this is kinda like that!

Lance Allen

Beyond the different points of view that some might be able to have for why Walt let Jane die, still the important thing is that Walt is NOT the protagonist of the show. He may or may not be the villain - the more Heisenberg takes over. Episode 1: "I prefer to think of Chemistry as the study of CHANGE." That's the real theme of the whole show. A brilliant show, with brilliant acting, about a mild-mannered kinda pushover guy into someTHING different and the consequences ultimately for himself and everyone around him. In fact, you called him "irredeemable": who said his character arc is about redemption??? Some stories are tragedies.

Kelli McMullin

Its only just starting to get good😂😂 dont stop now

Justin Vo

This is really the first thing walt does that was truly irredeemable. His first "Turn" it was purely self preservation. Even if you think he thinks she's bad for Jesse. It's really about his own shit. Walt is truly evil

Jonah Bertorelli

It doesn't make it any better or worse, and it doesn't justify it, but she made it clear even after getting the cash, she was going to either use it against him and was willing to turn him in. She knew too much, and didn't show any reason that she might keep quiet. That's the only reason I can see why he did it. She knew too much and was willing to use it against him for her own good. Whether that's a get out of jail free card, or further blackmail for more money.

Jonah Bertorelli
>>120948646

She owned him, she had him in check mate, so if she didn't leave town he had NO OTHER way to prevent her from being a problem.

Tyler Scott

I mean i don't think Walt's really supposed to be likeable haha. It's a very complex character. No doubt it's a disturbing decision and scene tho, can understand the visceral reaction. But tbf Jane was a drug addict who he met once that threatened to turn him in and ruin his entire life, and she was obv going to ruin Jesse's life aswell who he cares about...why would he save her in terms of his own self preservation? I obv get why it's a horrific scene just playing devil's advocate on his reasoning and logic...wasn't just bc he's evil, he initially went to save her but quickly thought about it and made a brutal decision. Your hate for him is def understandable tho 😂

Kara

Walter White is, like Tony Soprano or many of The Wire characters, ultimately an anti-hero. It's definitely a complicated situation, but the show is ultimately called Breaking Bad, and it's about (among other things) a person truly breaking bad. I think Ariana's reaction is completely valid and one many of us had watching this ep for the first time IMO Walt 100% believed that if he left him the money, Jesse would die - from an overdose, from a robbery etc. If Jane goes to jail, she gives up Walt (and probably Jesse) to the police. It's a horrendous immoral decision I obviously 100% disagree with, but I do think in the moment Walt thought saving Jane would indirectly kill Jesse and that's what causes him to do the unthinkable.

Chris Bruneau

I knew Jane's life was over as soon as she threatened Heisenberg--you don't come back from that!!!!

Silver Hawkins
>>120949033

It's not just about the fact he kills her. In that moment he also actively chooses to saddle Jesse with the trauma and guilt of her death.

Silver Hawkins

I never really found myself rooting for Walt throughout the run of the show. He became unredeemable fairly early. Especially when he began recklessly risking the lives of Jesse's friends because his ego kept telling him he is the smartest guy in the room. That being said, the show kept me engaged through Jesse. He is the show's emotional core and the reaosn why the show is worth engaging with on an emotional level.

Silver Hawkins
>>120950651

The extent to which he actually breaks bad is definitely arguable. It is notable that we do not really see (m)any acts of kindness from him. He is mostly just meek. He follows the rules because of social conventions and expectations. Not because he wants to or thinks it is the right thing to do. He stews in grudges and resentment. Look at how he treats Gretchen and the contempt he has for "charity". There are very deep seated issues in the man that go much further back than his cancer diagnosis. That merely gave him the excuse he had always been looking for.

Kara
>>120950651

I appreciate your comment and agree with you, but I hesitate to add more because they're only on Season 2 and I / we are poisoned by future knowledge.

Stanley Etienne

That episode was a turning point on how the audience viewed Walter. Emelio's death was in self defense, and we can forgive Walter for that. But what happened to Jane was a game changer for the character, the series, and how we the audience viewed Walter.

Stanley Etienne

It's not called Breaking Bad for nothing. Please stick with it, because the next three seasons are some of the best scripted drama in the history of television.

Bryce Lamkin

This show is about cheering for the good guy to win, it's about seeing a good guy turn into a bad guy and enjoying every security of that arc. I know heisenberg is a bad man. But I want him to come out on top every single conflict he has

Tom Fehr

hahahaha... just like Ned dying in Thrones was the "welcome to game of thrones" moment, this.... this is definitely the "welcome to breaking bad" moment

Tom Fehr

Definitely stick with it! Walt is a bastard but the show is incredible and only gets better!

David

Just to play devil's advocate and stir the pot: Walt did not kill Jane. Jane killed Jane. She wasn't going to stop until she had killed herself and taken down Jesse and Walt with her.

S13 Drift

"yeah, and I could be a bush pilot!" lolol

Christophe Schannes

It's a complex situation. I don't think Walt "killed" Jane, but he obviously let her die and could pretty easily have saved her. And that's complicated, ethically. We generally make a distinction between actively killing somebody and just not intervening when you could save someone. Most jurisdictions don't criminalize not saving somebody because in many situations, you just can't expect that of anyone. In this case, I think he's very clearly in the wrong but I do think it's important to make the distinction between this and actively killing her. Was Jane overdosing inevitable? I don't think so. Likely, probable even, but not inevitable. But at any rate, you're not supposed to feel good about this, you're not supposed to feel like Walter is in the right here and you're probably not supposed to think Jane "deserved" to die or something. But I think the best thing about this last scene is Walt's emotional reaction and Cranston's acting. Because Walt knows he's just done a terrible thing here, he had to make a split second decision and he chose to let her die. But he's not a heartless, soulless murderer here. He realizes the tragedy of the situation. That emotional reaction still shows a lot of humanity in Walt's character even if that action itself could be seen as evil. I think to some extent he even made this decision for Jesse's sake which makes it even more complicated. He only drove over there because Jane's father convinced him to not give up on family, so he decided not to give up on Jesse. It's so tragic.

Lara Grey

I don't see why Walt's actions have to be justified, they are not and you will just have to continue watching hating him, I don't think the writers intended any different

Silver Hawkins
>>120950651

My perspective does not stem from future knowledge though. It stems from events that have happened so far. Even this early in, we have only seen him be sympathetic on rare occasions. As a teacher, he has contempt for his students and resents a position he considers beneath him. He is decidedly not mr. Chips. He commits murder in an effort to protect himself and his family, which demonstrates to him that murder is a cost of doing business in the drug trade. Yet, he continues to engage in that business rather than accept money from his former associates. The scene with Gretchen at the restaurant shows how deeply resentful he is and the victim narrative he has constructed in his head. He knows how dangerous Tuco is and still decides to deal with him. He pushes for territorial expansion and endangers the lives of Jesse and friends without any regard for their safety. He continually and habitually lies to his family and inflicts emotional trauma on them. And those are all things he has done up until this point in the story.

Kara
>>120950651

Once again: you're not wrong but I don't personally feel comfortable discussing this more in the context of a first time reaction series comment section.

24fps_

He realized, that not doing anything solves all his problems with jesse/jane... You're not supposed to like him I think. It's hard to talk about this without spoiling future seasons..

Ullrich Pfeiffer

Well, she didn't exactly work on making people like her lol What Walt did was evil, but she did a lot to put herself into the crosshairs. It's really tragic that her dad essentially made Walt come back, killing her.

Anto
>>120961307

He did not kill her, he let her die. Not the same but still a messed up decision, also Jesse doing drugs again is his fault, as he was pushing them to expand and that killed one of his close friends.

Anto

The thing about this show is that it's so full of bad decisions and actions it's kinda unpredictable to root for anyone at this point. Don't force yourselves to love or justify anyone you don't feel like doing, you're probably right or expected by the writers to do so.

QongChullard

I think his decision is an interesting mix of a brutal decision, a loving one and an irrational one. He is looking after his own self interest. She would likely have shot up the money and blackmailed him again. Maybe gotten caught up with law enforcement, snitched, etc. In this sense, it's the brutal decision someone like Tuco could just as well have made. He is trying to save Jessie. Her being around almost certainly dooms him. In this sense it's a loving decision. If Walt was strictly there to look after himself, he would have killed them both. Kill, let die, whatever you prefer. The words, "you can never trust an addict" are hard to forget though. He's letting one addict die so another can live. He could have used the exact same logic to kill/let Jesse die so she could live, and he could have proceeded to kill Jesse with the same reasons he used to let her die. which makes any justification he uses for anything somewhat irrational. So why not save her? A mix of all of the above presumably. Ultimately, hundreds of scenes like that one have played out because of what he's been selling, since the very beginning. He's been bad. Killed countless people, this is just one drug death he was slightly more involved in that we saw on camera. So I don't consider it a moral low for the character at all, he's basically an overdose merchant, maybe for his own psyche it's a low, but not really in the grand scheme of things. I think it's a masterful display of criminal morality, death becomes more and more negotiable, since it needs to be for business. And he would justify it with some mix of economic interest, legitimate spite against her, family, etc. Like any gangster would. And they're not even necessarily lying, but the effects of their actions are the same.

Owen Kosik

You're not supposed to enjoy Walter or expect redemption.

Anto
>>121014675

Actually, you're supposed to. That's why the show is special, we all went through the same shit with Walt.

Owen Kosik
>>121014675

No we really didn't go through the same stuff, we watched it on a tv show and he actually lived it and made those choices. And he is very specifically meant to be a villain, the idolization and adoration of a ruthless, murdering criminal are the worst part of the Breaking Bad fandom. You should hate him. He's terrible. You can feel sad for his plight, but don't give him any credit he's not due.

Anonymous

I think the writers definitely want people to have that reaction of: “wait, why are we rooting for Walt after this?” There are plenty of other shows and movies (e.g. Sopranos, Godfather, Scarface) where the main character is bad but we nevertheless root for them, and we don’t exactly excuse but maybe dismiss or set aside our feelings about the immorality of their actions. And I think Breaking Bad tries to force us to be more uncomfortable with that. Up until this point, Walt has certainly done bad things, but they were always things that, even though we don’t condone them, we can probably understand why a person in his situation would choose do to that, whether it’s becoming a drug dealer or killing Emilio and Krazy-8 or whatever. But with Jane it definitely feels like a point of no return. In the very first episode, Walt tells his students that chemistry is the study of change, which on the one hand can be viewed as a pretty straight-up metaphor for the overall story. The creator has often said that his idea for the show was basically to have a protagonist slowly turn into an antagonist, and this episode definitely feels like a major milestone in that journey. But I actually think it’s an open question as to whether Walt does change. We see him become more and more ruthless in response to escalating conflict, but I think him choosing to let Jane die betrays something deeper and darker about him, that maybe his character arc isn’t as much about him changing as it his starting to show his true self.

Sara Something

To me Jesse was always the protagonist of the show. I also couldn’t forgive Walter after this episode. He was done for me but I kept rooting for Jesse.

Nick Kessler

I think I just don't understand "rooting" Just enjoy the story unfolding. This is definitely a big point of no return for Walt while also his character did what was in the best interest of jesse and himself. Jane blackmailing walt. jesse fucked up telling her all the stuff about him and walt. And yeah both of them would have been dead inside two weeks with 480k.

Dan
>>120957148

It's such a perfect turning point, too. Any other show would have him brazenly killing her with a gun or something overt and lame. This one hurts you to an emotional core because Jane's expected demise didn't occur in the way people anticipated. It is, somehow, so much worse. It fits character perfectly, the series perfectly, and has the exact impact on the audience that the show needed.

Dan
>>120968925

To add to everything you said, it's not just that it's complicated -- it's that it makes sense. The writers of other shows make characters do uncharacteristic things (e.g. working against their own interests) in order to suit a pre-defined plotline rather than having people do what they'd normally do IRL. But in Breaking Bad, you can see everyone's moral conflicts and quandaries and understand their rationale on all sides. Even -- and especially -- when you disagree with their final decisions. You aren't supposed to agree with Walt letting Jane die, but you can understand why he'd do it. It's truly a phenomenal feat.

Dan

Good call on re-framing it like Joaquin Phoenix' Joker. You don't have to like him per se, but you can still sympathize with aspects of his situation while despising his reaction to that situation. My gf had the same reaction as Maple, yelling at Walt to turn her over, exclaiming (almost sarcastically, because it was truly unthinkable): "Walt, she's gonna diiiiie" (Like Jesus, ya big dork!). And then a moment later it hit her: No, she *IS* going to die. She's dying. You're watching her pass. The revelation was so stunning, my gf started choking up just a short second after she'd finished her admonishment. Tears started flowing out of nowhere. She was shook, but I was already bawling because I'd seen the show a dozen times already. Brutal. Can't wait till the next episode!

Justin
>>121045318

How are they everr going to be able to watch the rest of the show 😂😂 womp womp

Andrew

Let's make something very clear, something that I believe is crucial for you ladies to understand if you're planning on watching and enjoying the rest of the show: Walt DID NOT kill Jane. Jane killed Jane. Suggesting otherwise is morally disingenuous and completely misses the message of the story. The writers have done a really good job at showing how Jane (and by extension, Jesse) began spiraling completely out of control after she had started using heroin again. In her addiction she found it justifiable to blackmail and threaten Walt and got Jesse addicted to heroin as well. Walt, on the other hand, was very clear (and completely right for that matter, which you pointed out in your reaction as well) in that he did not want anything to do with contributing to Jesse's addiction and his eventual overdose. All he wanted was for Jesse to get clean and for Jane to leave Jesse and himself alone. Yes, it's true: Walt, of course, could have turned Jane on the side and she would survive and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And his decision not to help her is dubious at best & morally corrupt at worst. But look at it from his perspective: there is this person who he doesn't know who knew so much and who threatened him and got Jesse (somebody who he definitely cares about) under her control and addicted to heroin. She is the source of all of Walt's current problems and now suddenly she starts dying. So in that moment, Walt's justification for leaving her as she was is: she's a junkie and her death will not only save him from trouble but save Jesse as well. Is it the right decision? Probably not, but to suggest that because of not helping her he's somehow irredeemable is wrong on so many levels. Nobody is irredeemable, and given the context of the situation, it's an especially hard call to make. I could go on and on about the dangers of addiction, but what the show makes absolutely crystal clear is: even if Jane's and/or Jesse's overdose didn't happen that night... it would happen eventually. Sooner rather than later, given the severity of Jane's spiraling down. So whether Walt was there that night or wasn't, the end result would be the same, or even worse: Jane would die of overdose, and so would probably Jesse... I don't expect you to respond to my comment, but I really do wish you treat Walt and other characters of this show with a little bit more nuance from now on and trust the writers that they know what they are doing. Those are all complex characters, they aren't just black and white. You even pointed it out yourselves about Hank in one of previous reactions: he's a bit of a bigot, a bit of a misogynist, a bit of a hypocrite... but not more so than your average person. At his core, he's a good person who's trying to do good things in the world. This is only the beginning of this story, and, as others have pointed out already, you will have plenty of other reasons to hate and/or love Walt in the future, but this scene and this episode is really not that hill to die on...

Chris Bruneau
>>121064865

After this episode, my wife started rooting for Walt to either die or get caught!

sablo

I would say Jesse is as much main character as walter is so atleast you got Jesse as a good guy so far.

Nick Kessler
>>121106297

You mean the guy introduced to us when he was banging someones's wife? who is a meth cook? Honestly I mostly agree with you but he is not perfect either.

Anonymous
>>121096781

i respectfully disagree, her life had value same as anyone else and in a position to save her life he chose to let her die for self serving reasons. walt effectively killed her. i feel you're not offering jane the same nuance and depth you're offering the others including walt. walt is more or less the source of his own problems, not jane. i also think and not to be annoying about it but they're watching the show the same as we all watched the show, they can form their own opinions without "needing to understand" a particular audience POV as the definitive interpretation. discussion is great ofc im not suggesting we not share our own opinions and interpretations as well, i'm more saying that the show *is* nuanced and that's what great about watching it and coming to our own thoughts regarding the characters and their actions over the course of the series. your comment is really well thought out though, you make a good argument. it's fun to have these conversations again like back when the show was first airing!

Dan
>>121096781

@Andrew Not sure if you're factoring this in or not, but Walt did knock Jane onto her back. Inadvertent or not, it was his presence and action that led most directly to her death. She was well aware of the dangers of getting high and made sure that both she and Jesse were in safe positions before they fell asleep. You can assume that she'd have died at a later date, but we'll never know because the option was deprived from her. By Walt. Walt was also aware of what to do to save Jane because of the foreshadowing with baby Holly. That means he's not JUST culpable for not putting her on her side, but ALSO for the after-the-fact guilt that he PUT her on her back. He knows he caused that. You don't need to "blah blah blah" your way through a rationalization of why Walt let her die -- that was never in question by anybody. Everyone sees the logical benefit to having a blackmailer die. That's not at issue here. What we're talking about is whether that logic should supersede a moral person's normal behavior. Lastly, you keep making statements from an authoritative posture, speaking for the writers... but keep in mind that Vince Gilligan's initial plan was to have Walt kill her with a needle. He WAS going to directly kill her -- that was the original plan. Just because they backed off that idea doesn't mean it didn't play into their final script -- it was part of the calculus, one way or the other. They were TRYING to give us a moral dilemma as an audience. So it isn't right for you to speak for everyone and proclaim that Jane is the only person we should hold responsible for her death. If it was already in the thoughts of the writers, then Arianna can't be far off the mark, can she?

Bryce Shinohara

Definitely the turning point for me rooting for Walt as well. Show will only get more entertaining though. Plenty more to unravel.

Tyler Scott
>>120949033

Well he didn't actually kill her, and Jesse knowingly got her hooked back on drugs and was willingly doing heroin with her and knows the risk. He is at fault and should feel guilt for some part of it. At the end of the day tho it was Jane's own decisions. They all 3 played a factor into it.

sablo
>>121106297

I agree, but honestly that was on the wife, she has a contract with someone, Jesse however is a single guy taking what he can get.

Victor
>>121096781

Anybody who manages to watch this show more than once and not realize Walt is very clearly the villain has fallen completely trap to Walt's own manipulation and that's hard to accomplish considering it's a TV show. What's the saying? Bravo Vince

Terri

He lost me (and the creator, Vince Gilligan) when he didn't accept the job/money from Elliott.