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The Last of Us Part II - Spoiler Mode (Patreon)

Published:
2020-07-02 03:18:16
Edited:
2020-07-02 03:46:59
Imported:
2021-08
⚑ Flagged

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VIDEO: https://youtu.be/UtIr6uFt5oI

Gulp, we're here to talk about The Last of Us Part II. 

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Comments

Anonymous

Finally! Can't wait to hear your opinions on this game

EasyAllies

Strange, the audio file disappeared when I published? -Bloodworth

Logan Young

Thanks for doing this friends.

Anonymous

Yay! Can't wait to listen to everyone's thoughts

Anonymous

HELL YES. As someone who has no plans to play this I appreciate hearing my favorite dudes shoot the shit about it in detail. :D

Anonymous

I’m curious to see if someone on the panel shared my negative thoughts on the writing. My friends are still playing through it so I haven’t heard much discussion outside of MinnMax’s Deepest Dive. Looking forward to this!

Megan Linart

Im not far in but I just want to say thank you guys for having such an honest open conversation without hatred or animosity, it feels so nice Love and Respect

Anonymous

Been waiting for this. TLoU2 is very divisive. Can't wait to watch

Anonymous

This was great!

Anonymous

I’m sorry for sounding too negative but it’s really tough to enjoy this spoiler cast with the amount of Ian in this. Again I apologize but felt like I needed to state it to your team

Anonymous
>>39637993

Well, if you for whatever reason dislike Ian, guess you’re out of luck on this one.

Anonymous

Hi @Elias it’s not dislike. I like Ian but I feel like there wasn’t a good balance of speaking time between the members present. I really wanted to hear more from everyone but most of the time the conversation was centred on Ian

Anonymous

I'm not the easiest patron to please but this spoiler mode reminded me why I like the allies so much. This video is nearly 3 hours of 6 people having civil discourse about something that seemingly no one else can. People who hate it need to realize there's a lot of great qualities in the game, and people who love it need to realize there's tons of areas worthy of criticism. The guys at EZA show that very clearly just from having a natural discussion with their diverse viewpoints. Everyone had pros, and everyone had cons, just like most previews/reviews/discussions should have. Everyone killed it in this but I feel like shouting out Jones who had tons of great points throughout the video.

Anonymous

Loved this so much. Loved the love and loved the criticism.

Anonymous

Sorry, I like Ian but these Ian takes are too much. I'm not surprised at all Ian didn't like the game, I expected it. Ian hates ND games and went in with preconceived notions. But Ian took over the spoiler mode with borderline Internet troll takes. "It is a predominantly a female cast" - Brandon. "But made by a man!" - Ian. Halley Gross was a co-writer on the game. I expected better from Ian.

Anonymous
>>39644016

I think that's a very unfair take. I like ND games. I enjoyed Part 1 and all of the Uncharted games. But I actually had similar issues with the game. Painting every criticism about the game as "internet troll takes" is a very cheap shot.

Anonymous

Such an incredible game for me. Enjoyed listening to you all very much as per usual

Anonymous

That was a great listening, glad that everyone had a very different experience lol I'm with Ben tho, I absolutely loved it even more than the first one but I do believe there are some faults. @Ian I'm not sure if what you tried to say or ask was that if women acted because of men (dying, ordering, and whatnot). You mentioned something about Tommy putting guilt on Ellie's shoulders and I believe that Tommy is a manipulable man and he acts according to what he's told, he follows her wife, then follow Ellie's orders when she makes him feel guilt. He was never really on board of the revenge quest and when he was tried to go back he basically died and lost everthing. As a kinda manipulable man myself I found realistic that as such a guy would react the way he did "I did everything you told me against my will, lost everything and now you're moving on from it?" It makes sense to not accept the blame even when it's all on him, he did make those decisions. Just my opinion on the matter.

Anonymous

Not sure if this is necessary, in the comments of a spoiler mode, but - ***** SPOILERS ***** Played through the game twice (had to get that plat) and for me it's an 8/10 at best, mainly due to issues I have with the story. To be honest my issue is not the story, but how the story was told. Joel probably did deserve to die, for what he did in the first game, but the way they did it, and when, immediately made you hate Abby, so when they force you to play as her, it just doesn't make sense. If they wanted to tell this story, you should have started the game as Abby, in the immediate aftermath of Joel's decision. And spent the first half (maybe more) of the game going through the next few years with Abby, getting to know her, her friends, and what Joel's decision has done to not only the Fireflies, but the hope of the entire species. Over the years you hear rumours of Joel's whereabouts, chase down dead ends, getting more and more frustrated, until that day when the Jackson lead comes in, and we head out to get the job done. The characters will think this might be another dead end, but the player will know different and know where this is going. Then when you finally do get to kill Joel you'll know who is doing it, and why. Then you can play the second half of the game as Ellie, as she loses herself to vengeance. We'll see this hopeful girl, go down a dark path, and fully understand why, and see her fall deeper and deeper into the hole. Then at the end, when she finally confronts Abby, she wins, but the player gets to choose whether to kill her or not. Then maybe have 2 epilogues, one where you see Abby moving on (if you let her live) or Ellie moving on (if you kill Abby), both living with the trauma that revenge has caused them. It is essentially the same story, but told in a way that would make more sense to me.

Anonymous

Also, I want to add that the perspective on both (Abby vs Ellie, and Ellie vs Abby) was something that can only be made in games, of course you have to be invested in the story and characters but struggling with your emotions during those encounters is the whole point. I totally get some of you don't liking it but I adored feeling that way, as Blood said, I didn't want to participate in those events, I wanted to make them both stop and I think that's fantastic. On Ellie forcing Abby to fight, I believe she needed catarsis otherwise it would never work for her, Ben kinda touched the matter when he said how her whole life was tainted with violence and is wha she knows. Without a powerful emotion she wouldn't be able to move on. (The fight might be a little over the top tho but I was so invested in the story that it didn't bother me)

Anonymous

I just have one thing I'd like to correct. Ian talks about a part in the game when you get jumped on the workbench. He says that you read a note before saying that it's WLF deserters, and he'd like to have been able to resolve the situation without killing them. Ian, you completely misread the situation. Those 4 deserters, you already killed them before. They were infected, and the note you're talking about drops from the body of one of those 4 infected you kill before. The guys that jumps you are WLF.

Anonymous
>>39648368

I think you missed the point of the story, dude. The game makes you hate Abby, then makes you empathize with her by playing as her. It's supposed to be a difficult pill to swallow, but as a whole it's a game that completely destroys the egotistic view of the self vs. the other. Saying "it just doesn't make sense" is disappointing as you clearly like the game a lot and played it twice - yet still missed the thrust of the story.

Daryl Rodriguez
>>39650074

But I remember the WLF guys that jump you saying, "we won't go back!", and also, something like, "the WLF are here", referring to Ellie.

Anonymous

Man, it pains me to agree with people who didn't like Ian in this. I usually always love hearing Ian's opinions, especially if they don't align with mine 100%. But Ian completely misread the point of this game, and is just way too stubborn to see the true point. It's about the importance of perspective, ego death, getting over revenge, seeing other people's trauma as your own, communication - and it's all solidified in the moment where Ellie decides NOT to kill Abby. THAT's the moment Ellie grows, Ian. You may want it to have happened earlier, but it's not your story. It's not a weak choice - it takes Ellie's revenge quest as far as it could possibly have gone, but then Ellie realizes she's done letting it control her. It took almost killing Abby for Ellie to realize that - and finally get past her PTSD about Joel's death. Ian is just so overly biased against this game he can't see the truth of what's going on. And that's a shame.

Anonymous

I don't think Ian reads this comment section.

Daryl Rodriguez

I'm assuming that all of these comments are massive spoilers and I can type freely. I saw Ellie losing her fingers as metaphorical, because the guitar was one of the only ways she had left in terms of connecting with Joel. Now it is way more difficult, almost impossible perhaps, for her to connect with Joel in that way. One of the several ways in which Ellie pays a price.

Anonymous
>>39654903

Yeah, that's how I read it also. Same with losing her mothers switchblade in the water fighting Abby.

Anonymous

I love you very much Ian, but you should have let the conversation breathe dude

Anonymous

Thank you for bringing a different take to the table Ian. You're amazing.

Anonymous
>>39638406

Yeah that’s fair enough. Honestly I would love a second spoiler mode on this game like they did with FFVII with a different group of people if possible (though I doubt it will happen). I think a lot of things Ian said was countering something someone else said. I understand and respect Ian’s opinions on the game despite disagreeing with most of what he says, but I see what you mean, for example we barely heard Brad talk at all but maybe that’s simply because he didn’t have many strong opinions on the game.

Anonymous

Couple of minor points I feel should have been touched on: 1. Mel is very pregnant from what it looks like. And not to say pregnant women can’t do anything, but I feel like it was kind of unrealistic to have Mel go out into combat and climb a bunch of stuff. Then later the medical checkup showed the the baby only had an elevated heart rate. 2. Pregnancy was almost used like a cheap tool to elicit emotion. Kind of just thrown in there at random times almost. Like “oh wait don’t kill her she’s pregnant!” was thrown in there multiple times.

Anonymous

Why did Ian bother playing this game? He didn’t like part one, doesn’t like the two main characters and doesn’t seem to like the gameplay. Just seems like he’s missed the point of part 2 and wants to shit on it every chance he gets.

Anonymous

I think this spoiler mode is the reason I love the Allies, sometimes I do not agree with what one allie is saying, and that person changes video to video. However, this challenges my thoughts in a way no other gaming group can. It makes me consider views that I never had before, even if I still opose it at the end, the way it is said, is in a respectful way. No yelling, hate speech or anger to one another. Even though in this instance I didn't agree with Ian, never change, give us the true feelings on everything and keep being the best group on the internet! L&R

Anonymous

I hate to put my opinion in here. This isn’t a good story and there is too much to go into about my opinion of that and it’s just my opinion so who cares. It is an extremely great looking game especially for how much detail is in the world. The audio is really good. Gameplay is okay but companion A.I. is bad and skill trees are a weak element. I completely understand why people are upset by all the perfect score reviews. This game feels far from perfect. I don’t care about numbers, I’ve played plenty of 5-7 scored games and had fun. The story is too simple, revenge is bad, violence is bad, but we are presenting this as though it is something you’ve never heard of before. If an Xbox game had you kill all these dogs I truly believe the internet would be calling for boycotts against Microsoft. All the embargo rules, review rules, the leak, legal threats, and the Naughty Dog employees’ issues just add a bad feeling. Just watch 70’s or 80’s revenge movies like Death Wish, which is actually worse than this game, but makes a similar statement against violence by using a ton of violence. Death Wish also caused a lot of controversy, lots of arguments, and anger, but only takes 94 minutes.

Cannonball_Jones

If anyone who is feeling sour on the game (which is totally fair) is looking to understand what people loved so much about this game, I’d recommend reading through this piece. It goes through much of the game beat-by-beat in a way that clarifies emotional sentiment shared by a player with a very similar experience to me and I absolutely loved the game. https://t.co/FhGzrxTbo8

Cannonball_Jones
>>39678241

My only issue is when he’s comparing it to what they should do rather than trying to take it for what it is, especially considering he says “take my meaning the correct way” when the other Allies jokingly misunderstand his own take on the game but doesn’t seem to extend that rationale to the game itself. For example, saying that the game should give you choices to team up with defectors is totally at odds with the narrative. I totally respect preferring games that give the player choice over story decisions but I don’t think it’s a fair criticism to say that a linear game needs to offer those options and therefore imply that all games NEED to have branching narratives to be interesting. Also, personal hangup but when playing games with such a narrative focus I think it’s important to give the game as much of your attention as possible and playing Mario 64 music whenever in the boat doesn’t exactly sound like giving the game an honest shot.

A Joker Fan
>>39690769

You're not the only one plenty of people disliked this game and were turned off by the actions from naughty dog/sony, druckman ruined both lou2 and uncharted

Garry

With Abbey when she got her revenge she realised it didn’t change anything, the emptiness was still there. If Ellie had killed Abbey there would be know point to the story. Nobody would have learnt anything.

Anonymous

Druckmann confirmed that it is indeed Catalina island on the New game+ screen. He says this in the Kinda Funny Games podcast. I recommend you all watch it to get some inside scoops on certain story beats.

Sam Strajack

Ian : Well there's this feminist way you can read into the game I want to bring up Everyone else : *Confusion and disagreement* Ian : Well I'm not saying I actually believe it or subscribe to it, you COULD read it that way Everyone else : Still very confused Stop trying to score points dude did you not get enough shine time in this episode already?

Anonymous

God you can hear Ben and Jones desperately trying to make a real conversation happen at the end. You won me back Jones.

Anonymous

I love these guys and It really pisses me off how Ian disrespects the conversation. Especially with this game.

Anonymous
>>39653968

What frustrates me most is I used to think Ian would love this kind of game. Now I just think he's a blatant contrarian. Willful uncaring ignorance.

Anonymous

My problem with Ian is his inability to take out his own self perspective as someone who’s not in a 24 year old pandemic (it could be longer but I’m going by 20 years in the first game and 4 year time jump here). He speaks as someone who cannot separate the self from how you would react in a post apocalyptic world and when people speak like this it makes their opinions invalid for me.

Anonymous

I am very glad we got to hear great discussion from Huber, Brandon and Ben who all seemed to really understand the themes of this game. Blood made some really good points as well and I felt bad for Brad knowing all the spoilers as that would have completely affected someone’s playthrough so I understood his criticisms more as you know where the story is going so you aren’t able to appreciate the way it was intended.

Anonymous
>>39671323

I actually think pregnancy was used to show the world worth saving. The reason why Ellie has such a visceral reaction is not only that Dina is pregnant but also that the child hasn’t done anything to her versus all these people that she deems evil just for being with Abby. I mean in this case I think it will come down to personal preference unlike other things people have been complaining about here but honesty that one really worked for me. It even shows Abby who had really found something with Yara and Lev grows because she would have killed Dina if not for Lev because she was like you killed Owen I will kill her. Yes Mel was pregnant but Abby has Owen taken away. Abby losing Owen and her dad and still choosing forgiveness shows she was done with revenge and had grown rather than repeating it again. I mean she does kill Jesse and cripples Tommy but like I said it took Lev for her to finally realize. Ellie even with JJ and Dina can’t let it go because of the PTSD and Tommy showing up. It shows just how real trauma can hit.

Anonymous

This was an amazing Spoiler Mode. Thank you Allies.

Anonymous

I think it’s important to make the distinction that characters like Joel, Ellie and Abby are at various times PROTAGONISTS. That word does not mean hero or good guy. There’s no such thing as that in this world. There are only flawed, irredeemable human beings that we follow through on journeys doing what they felt they had to do, and having to live (or die) with the repercussions of their actions. I think we like to think in terms of a morality scale. I think most of us believe we’re mostly good people who make mistakes from time to time. But the truth is, there is no such thing as making up for bad with good. These characters, try as they might, can’t escape what they’ve done. I think the message is that for some of us, neither can we. If the first game screwed up in any way, it was that we maybe empathized with Joel a little too much. We played as him through most of the experience, we grew to love him and Ellie and to understand his perspective when he did what he did at the end. We wanted to believe that even though he did bad, his actions were justifiable. They were not, and the game basically hits you over the head with it at the beginning by making him answer for what he’s done.

Anonymous

Huber is a great moderator. I really appreciated the structure this episode while still having room for thoughts and rants.

Anonymous

I love that so many of the Allies were on this discussion so that many different thoughts and opinions could be let loose. It helped me narrow down why I disliked this game so much. I sided with Ian for a lot of things, and thought differently about some, too, but I loved what he brought up. I've only seen a couple other talks/reviews about the game and none really bring up what Ian mentions (not going into specifics because that'll make this longer than it already is). Great work, guys!

Anonymous

I couldn't disagree more. The point of spoiler modes is to discuss a game, flaws and all, in an unrestricted way. If they turned into "fans only" discussions, they would be very boring, and would do a disservice to not only the topic being discussed, but the allies themselves. I really don't get all the comments on here criticising Ian's role in this debate. He's stating his opinion and whether you agree with that opinion or not, I think it's important to hear all sides of the conversation and I, for one, look forward to as many allies as possible being involved in future spoiler modes.

Anonymous

The ending made me think there was going to be a choice. I don't think the game would have been any less if it did. I understand the writing and being forced to live with the decisions of a character, but I agree with Ian, you are the player and would have been nice to be able to control what happens. The game does what it can to help you feel what that character is feeling. In the end though you're still a human controlling a game. It's not a movie. I think that's why some ask why it's even a game if you ultimately don't have a choice. I still get the other side of putting you in a place of having to deal with it. There are a lot of things in life you don't have control over. It's just going to be tough for some to enjoy the game when their emotions are not inline with the character. I still think that should be the one of the main goal of the developer.

Anonymous

I will resub after unsubbing if you do another spoiler mode without Ian

Anonymous

It’s pointless having a discussion where everyone agrees, I am very happy to have Ian’s inclusion in the spoiler mode as even though I think the game is good it fell very short for me narratively speaking and I finished the game feeling disappointed. The point of a spoiler mode is to have a deep dive and you can’t do that without variation of opinion if anything I don’t think the other allies were as critical as the should have been but again that’s the point of having a varied discussion you hear stuff that you may not agree with and it causes you to think, now you could argue that Ian took up more time than others speaking and that maybe there needs to be stronger moderation of the discussion but that’s down to whoever is hosting (sorry Huber). One thing is for sure is that this game is divisive and as with everything we could stand to listen to each other more with empathy especially in these current times. L&R

Anonymous

Some people sure do want echo chambers and confirmation bias for the things they like. Heaven forbid there be a discussion among equally valid takeaways. Having a variety of opinions is the point of panel discussions. I love having people who did not enjoy a product or point out flaws in something as much as people who gush and cheer for what they loved. Like a Hall of Greats debate, you need both to truly test the quality of something.

Garry

I love Ian opinions on games but a lot of people are not getting the complaint it’s not about negative opinions, it’s about taking over a conversation so the hole conversation is about one person’s opinions and rebuttals of said complaint . Now this is someone who love when Ian’s on shows it’s about balance and the conversation wasn’t balanced.

Anonymous

I've been a patron of EZA since day 1, and have been following some of these guys since the early GT days, but I've not really been too active in the eza community, I donate, sub on twitch and sit back and enjoy the content. Due to this I've found Ian's repeated "oh no I'm gonna get it in the comments for this/everybody in the comments already hate me" comments over the years a little confusing. I really like Ian, and appreciate his contributions to all the content that EZA makes, and think his sense of humour is great. Thus I assumed that all the "comments" comments he makes were a joke. Now after reading some of the nonsense on here I get it. Wow some people are really butthurt about Ian, and I honestly don't see why?? Withdrawing patronage until you get an "Ian free" spoiler mode! Subbing for this one, then not listening because Ian speaks a lot. How old are you people??? Jesus f-ing Christ, I'm surprised Ian still bothers to be honest! Wtf!? is wrong with you people???? Why do you patronise a team of creators when you obviously can't stand one of them??

Anonymous

Watched the entire video. Read all comments. I want more! :O

Anonymous

Man, it took me a week before I really had something that was like an opinion. Every day it changed from "This game is fantastic!" to "I really don't know that to think of this". Now that I had some time to think, I really enjoyed the game and it's definitely something different from what I've seen/played before, but there are things happening that I wanted to see different. If there's one thing for sure: I can't wait for Naughty Dog's next game on PS5!

Anonymous
>>39820568

I don't think it's about people not getting the complaints. It's about how people are complaining. What you're saying is clear and well explained, but some of these comments are not and just come down to complaining about one person.

Anonymous

I really don't understand the acclaim this game has gotten from critics. I'm not sure it deserves to be review bombed but this thing is an incredibly polished 7/8 in my opinion. I thought it was universally understood that the gameplay in the first game was fairly meh and they come out 7 years later with basically a carbon copy. On top of that the story just wasn't any good. The story of Abby being the daughter of the doctor was fairly interesting. The Lev story was a complete slog and lasted WAY too long. I'm shocked that anyone could possibly like that storyline. Lev and Yara were the worst "characters" in the series. Completely uninteresting and caused an 8 hour detour which didn't have any bearing on the story of Ellie vs Abby. The first game is probably the best video game story ever told. The gameplay was meh but it had a payoff with the story and particularly the ending. This one had a meh story with the same meh gameplay and a meh ending. The polish alone probably makes it deserving of a 7/8 but my goodness was that disappointing from a huge fan of the first game. Naughty Dog was probably the developer of the PS3 generation. Uncharted 4 and TLoU 2 were very disappointing. I'm now looking forward to anything coming out of Santa Monica, Guerilla, Insomniac, and maybe even Sucker Punch before ND moving forward. As far as the EA video, I would be interested in a gun-to-the-head review score at the end of these for each of the panel. Ian was clearly pretty low, Ben and Jones seemed to be with Huber and Blood/Brad were somewhere in between maybe. It'd just be interesting to hear a discussion on where metacritic is for this game and if the panel agrees/disagrees. IMO it's WAY too high. I kept playing the game thinking there was going to be some incredible payoff at the end based on the scores. I left more than disappointed.

Anonymous

signed up to the patreon cause i really needed to hear what these guys take on the last of us 2 was. I anticipated that i'd enjoy it. Huber needed to reign Ian in, i dont mind his points, but if he didnt like the first game, only played half of it and hedidnt care for the characters; the fact that he had so much to say about the game (often dismissively) was tough to watch at times. It became uncomfortable, when your making such a big deal out of the fact the game tells you to press r3 for the flash light once taking control of Abby was peculiar, his reaction to it was petty....basically, Ian was hating on this game throughout, backhanded compliments were rife. To then admit after domianting the conversation that you just dont like ND, i just felt he could have sit this one out. That whole feminist bit towards the end was cringey, they all looked disapointed in him towards the end.

Anonymous
>>39889701

The good ol' "I don't understand why people don't think like I do" huh? You're entitled to your opinion, so does anyone else. Deal with it.

Anonymous

I just can’t take Ian seriously in this discussion when his opinions boil down to “it’s just bad” when millions of people love all the different things they discussed. It almost seems like he just doesn’t want to enjoy any aspect of these games.

Anonymous

Everyone hating on Ian for not liking the game and saying his opinions take too much space is hilarious, when all the drama was about how toxic the people that didn't like the game were. Thank goodness this wasn't an echo chamber of praising like other discussions of the game that are out there.

Anonymous
>>39659205

I hate ND games and don't remember TLOU, but I will proceed to berate this game...

Anonymous
>>40113027

To be fair, most people are not saying criticism is bad. They think Ian dominates the conversation too much for someone that clearly wasn't into the game from the get go. Hard to take his opinions seriously. And frustrating when there are others we'd love to hear from.

Anonymous

Thanks guys, just the discussion I was hoping to hear after finishing this magnificent and challenging game. Love you all <3

Anonymous

I too signed up to the EasyAllies Patreon channel, as I really wanted to hear and enjoy their take on this game. Instead I had to listen through an awkward, petty and sometimes just nonsensical opinion by Ian. If his opinion was so anti Naughty Dog & anti Last of Us, why was he a part of this conversation/podcast? I’m all for a difference of opinions, but it felt that Ian was deliberately hating on the game to troll others (including myself) and to just go against the majority for the sake of doing so. Incredibly disappointing . . .

Anonymous

Was going to watch but the comments saved me and 2 + hours. * Fantastic game. Pulls from so many works or art before it. THIS GAMES TAKES RISKS! Old enough to really recall the way people reacted to MGS2 and the HATE it got. Druckmann got cart blache to tell a god damn story. Its not concerned with giving you a hug and or the warm and fuzzies ya bitches. Now we go back to 99.9% of games giving gamers/western audiances what they want a nice hug* and to tell you its all gonna be ok. Bravo Naughty Dog pushing the medium forward.

Anonymous

I hate to say it but I definitely would have enjoyed this conversation a thousand times more without Iain in it. I don’t mind constructive critiques but although others would let Iain’s sometime very petty criticisms land, he wouldn’t do the same for the opinions of others. It felt like he was on a mission, as many contrarians tend to, to shit on the game and not let this be a positive conversation, butting in to every complimentary discussion with something negative. Some of his points were nonsensical and ramblings which made it an awkward listen. I love all takes and wouldn’t have cared if everyone loved it or hated it, but there was a strong sense that, because he knew people loved the game, to knock it down as many pegs as he could and dominate the conversation. Shame :(

Anonymous

Just finished the game - putting down some thoughts. Hopefully I don't come off sounding too negative - I do think the game is actually incredible and I enjoyed all of it. This is a spoiler discussion though, and I did have some mixed feelings on the writing. Production - The production value and attention to detail in the game is amazing. The graphics are fantastic, the gameplay is excellent, and the writing/VO is great. Just on these points alone I think the game is worth at least an 8/10 no matter what one thinks about the story and such. Video Game Play - Again, the game was superbly well done and it's hard to criticize - it's all top notch. That said, as a bigtime sequel it didn't really add much from the original. Maybe something like character choice, like Ian suggested, would have been a nice addition to take it to the next level. Infected - They didnt seem to have much bearing on the plot of the game, and were more just part of the ambiance of the world. And in particular, Ellie's immunity seems to be mostly ignored in the story. Theoretically, she still sort of potentially holds the key to a cure but this was not touched on at all. Not that they necessarily had to include this, but it's interesting that they decided to steer away from that. Plot - The plot of the first game involves delivering Ellie, who potentially has the cure to humanity. Even if Joel did Eff that up in the first game, it's still a very interesting twist to a compelling and understandable mission that you're on throughout the game. This time around it seems like we're going cross country on a petty revenge mission, which is highly questionable from the start. Maybe that was the point of the story, in order for them to say something about 'revenge is bad' but I don't know that I'm totally down with that. Abby Storyline - I thought Abby was a great character, and by the end of her portion I really did connect with her and it was a joy to go on her adventure due to the stellar gameplay and writing. That said, I feel like we went on a 10 hour excursion quite simply for Naughty Dog to show us that Abby is a good person. There are the other characters like Lev and Owen of course, but again I feel they are just devices to show Abby as a caring and good person. Other than that we aren't necessarily accomplishing any sort of big mission with her (just escaping to Santa Barbara I suppose), but rather just going through the motions for several hours already knowing exactly what's going to happen. The Ending - Once again, the game seems to revolve around Ellie's petty revenge mission and it does feel like Ellie's character was dragged through the mud by the writers. Probably on purpose, but again I just wasn't really on board with her selfish mission from the start. The whole game makes Ellie look like an A-hole to me. In the end she makes the right choice not to kill Abby, but it was too late for her - honestly I thought she was going to kill herself at the end, for the game to say something about PTSD/depression. What we did get in terms of closure seemed so hollow and depressing. Again, I guess that's what the writers were going for but I'm not sure that they 'stuck the landing' on this one for me. The twist at the end of the first game was so poignant and thought provoking given Ellie's stakes as an immune person, and Joel's need for connection. At the end of TLOU 2 I can see what the writers were building up to with respect to revenge vs making the right choice, but I'm not sure that it fully came through, or perhaps I didn't fully catch it. End score - 9/10. I had some gripes with the story as mentioned above, but that's all subjective stuff. Objectively this game is superb.

Anonymous

I love this spoiler mode and conversation. One take I’d like to bring up that constantly gets overlooked is the idea of power and agency. Joel steals Ellie’s purpose, power and agency when he “saves” her from the FireFlies and she never recovered. Ellie in TLOU was brave, courageous and outspoken. Ellie in TLOU2 is extremely insecure, reserved and closed off. She’s a skittish pup who’s been kicked around. Joel’s death gives her purpose and power and all she knows how to do is kill and survive, which is what Joel has been trying to instill in her because that’s all he knows how to do after losing Sarah. Without therapy, all victims will become predators and perpetrators of the violence they experience. The only way to not be a victim is to victimize others.

Matt Shay
>>40735031

"Without therapy, all victims will become predators and perpetrators of the violence they experience. The only way to not be a victim is to victimize others." Very cool perspective!

Anonymous

Out of context it looks really bad as many victims won’t get the opportunity nor do they go out of their way to hurt others. It’s also generalizing since trauma manifests in different ways, depending on the person, but in this universe, death and destruction is all Ellie really knows. She also has the AL this guilt on her shoulders, but idea is regular people without trauma rarely commit violence. It’s like the bully at school probably gets bullied at home and they feel powerless so they can pick on others. Not because they like it but it’s the only way they’ve been taught.

Anonymous

I am not sure at the end Ian can say that this game or TLOU1 would be a better movie or TV show. His experience is proof that being interactive and a game matters, watching the cutscenes on YouTube is not the same. The feeling of dread when you know you have to fight Ellie and you not wanting to a passive medium like movies or TV can never replicate.

Anonymous
>>40909317

Exactly. His comments added very little since he did not finish this first game. Watching a video game as a movie instead playing it as the interactive media it is intened to be kinda defeats the purpose.