Grilling JR - JCP Buys UWF [Show Notes] (Patreon)

JR - on social media we put a poll out and the most requested topics were really discussing your time in Mid South Wrestling so we’ll be sure to circle back to them in 2024…but this won the poll and discussing the sale of Mid-South Wrestling…last known as UWF…to Jim Crockett Promotions.

Bill Watts’ book has gone into great detail over how the derailment of Mid South Wrestling but really at one point there Bill discussed Ted Turner himself buying Mid South Wrestling. What do you know about these discussions and conversations?

At one point in 1985 - there were three wrestling shows airing on TBS…you had Vince McMahon’s WWF…Bill Watts’ UWF…and Championship Wrestling from Georgia. How was that to navigate at the time?

With Mid South taping in Atlanta…Watts would buy a $750,000 plane to fly back and forth…this was not the best investment for Watts was it?

Supposedly Turner & Watts had a handshake deal that Turner would buy in when the contract with McMahon would expire - but instead Jim Crockett bought the timeslot back from Vince for $1,000,000 and Turner backed out of whatever deal was made. Is that how you remember it?

What was Mid South’s financial situation when they went off TBS? How hurt were they by the lack of TBS moving forward?

A year later Bill wrote that he decided to make a go of it on his own - but he thought he had to expand nationally or the company would die. Do you think he needed to do that?

This would be the transition from Boyd Pierce to you and Watts would write that he was “too southern” to make the push. Did you think he was too southern - and was that just a recurring theme in your career and the irony of it later on?

The shift of moving the TV tapings out of the Boys’ Club in Shreveport and into arenas to give them a bigger feel so to speak…was that a move you agreed with?

Why does this seem to be a theme also in wrestling promotions - find success in a steady arena - but to make it feel bigger you have to make a move into bigger arenas…

Do you agree with that assessment for most promotions?

Bill Watts would write this:

“Jim Ross was not only an excellent announcer but had also become my right-hand man. So we replaced Boyd with Jim, which hurt Boyd's feelings, but that was the way things were as we tried to keep pace and survive. I haven't been around as many people as brilliant as Jim. And he was the kind of guy who, even when he was mad at you and would cuss you in private, would always give you his all and remain loyal. Jim had a tremendous impact on my life.”

Hearing that JR - what does that mean to you?

As you went about establishing the national syndication for the company - how did that help the company…or hurt the company in the long run?

What were the syndication deals you were getting in 1986?

The rebranding into the UWF - Universal Wrestling Federation - was that a Watts idea?

70% of the United States had the syndicated show in their market - and really that was a UWF stronghold with the WWF. Was it an emulation of what Vince had done just two years before?

What did syndication generate to the company? How much was the company spending in syndication?

The launch of the UWF takes place - ironically enough - at a show where you’re working with Jim Crockett Promotions - and that’s for the Jim Crockett Senior Memorial Cup at the Superdome. Did Crockett & Watts get along?

Was it tough to manage both?

On April 19th, 1986 it draws 3500 in the afternoon and 13,000 in the evening. Just three years before running at the Superdome with Junkyard Dog & Mr. Olympia on top in a steel cage drew 21,400. Was the Superdome hurting already at this point?

Watts would point to the next show in June that there was a real issue and he would write this…

“One of our advance publicity guys liked to call escort services when we were in town. He called me before the summer show and said, "I have called every escort service in the book, and they're all closed." These escort services had page after page of huge ads in the Yellow Pages of the New Orleans phone book - ads that cost a lot of money and every one had gone out of business. On the face of it, you might not see the significance and might be wondering, "What the hell does that have to do with wrestling in the Superdome?"

He would make the point that the oil recession was devastating all businesses and especially anything to do with entertainment…and people’s disposable income was evaporating. Did you already know it at this point?

The show has Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair defending the NWA title against Ricky Morton, and even Bill on top…and the show draws 11,000 for $70,000. Crockett was hot about the gate and thought that you guys didn’t do a great job promoting it. Can you put into perspective why a show drawing that would be considered a failure?

November of 86 would see an increase with no Crockett involvement at the Superdome with 13,000 fans paying $78,000…but this is the last high point was it not?

Was it too much at the Superdome do you think?

April of 1987 at the Superdome would draw 3,000 fans. It’s insane to see that number considering what just 7 months before was 13,000 fans. That’s 10,000 fans gone. JR - did you ever imagine that much would be gone that fast?

Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi & Texas were all killed by the oil industry. So if Bill’s plan was to expand nationally - it didn’t matter - if the homebase got crushed right?

How much money did Bill lose and how quickly was it gone?

When people lose their spending money - it’s always entertainment first is it not?

Watts would write this

“It was a devastating ripple effect, and it kept coming in waves, getting worse every time. By the end of 1986, we had gone from averaging a gross of $100,000 per show in Oklahoma City and $60,000 a show in Tulsa the same day to averaging $14,000 in Oklahoma City and $26,000 in Tulsa. We could barely afford to keep the doors open for those shows. Banks were going broke, real estate crashed, and even airlines, like Braniff, went broke.

It was a disaster. Hotels were going broke and being repossessed. The oil crunch took people out of businesses they had been in all their lives.

People lost everything.”

This isn’t a way to minimize this - but it’s not a joke. That oil crisis was real and a lot of money was lost - and businesses were crushed under this. When did it first start to impact your bottom line?

Watts would also lay some blame on Ken Mantell - but in hindsight - it didn’t matter how good they were…it was all going to go regardless was it not?

Watts had bilateral contracts with his top guys - so they were going to get paid regardless of how the business was doing. Who were those guys?

So in reality they had guaranteed contracts - why was this such a big deal when WCW was handing out guaranteed contracts in 1996 with the likes of Kevin Nash & Scott Hall…when this was happening in the 80s from like Bill Watts?

In 1987 Watts would write that very quickly he was losing $50,000 a week - do you think that number is realistic?

Very quickly Jim Duggan gives notice and heads to the WWF. How big a blow was this to you and also to the company?

There’s no star - nobody that could’ve walked in - and changed business could it?

Did you ever imagine Bill just closing up shop?

Bill sets up meetings with investors who wanted to purchase the company in a stock deal with a guy named Daniel Skouras. It doesn’t sound like it’s on the up and up and when Watts demanded a portion of the sale price in cash instead of just all stock - it blew up. What do you remember of this negotiation and were you surprised it went to shit?

In your mind - was there ever a player that would’ve been interested in Mid South that wasn’t named Vince McMahon or Jim Crockett?

Do you think Watts’ pride would’ve prevented a deal with those two with you working with him for so long?

Watts would that it was your idea to call Vince and tell him that he’s going to file a federal antitrust suit against him - but if he’ll buy the terrority Watts wouldn’t go forward. Watts met with Vince a year before and was offered a deal for the company at that point as well wasn’t he?

Your idea was also after talking to Vince to call Crockett and let him know you’re getting ready to sell it to Vince and Crockett would bite because if Vince got Mid South - Crockett couldn’t survive. How long was this your idea for?

You wrote this:

““Bill,” I said, “I’ve got an idea.”

Cowboy was listening. He was burnt out and ready to hear other suggestions.

“Why don’t you sell?” I said. “I could ask Crockett if he was interested in buying.”

I didn’t know if Watts was going to hug me or kill me for even bringing the suggestion up.

“Two million,” he said.

“Excuse me?” I mean, I heard him but was taken by surprise at just how quickly and easily he essentially said yes to selling his company.

“You get us two million and I’m out.”

How shocking was this?

Was Cowboy done with wrestling at this point in your mind?

Were you surprised he sent you to negotiate the deal?

You wrote this in your book:

“When I landed in Atlanta, Crockett and his right-hand man, Rob Garner, were waiting for me in a conference room at the terminal. There was no food ordered, no drinks had; it was just straight business. Neither Crockett nor Watts was setting the world on fire with their promotions, and I spent twenty minutes talking to Crockett and Garner about how both companies should come together if they wanted to continue to challenge Vince. In truth, I was trying to read the room and see just how big Crockett’s appetite was for continuing to compete with McMahon.

“Cause you know,” I said, as the meeting was coming to a close. “If you weren’t willing to team up, then Watts might think of selling.”

I could see on both men’s faces that this news was of huge curiosity to them. Not solely because they might have been interested in buying, but that they knew McMahon would be.”

Do you think they knew they were being played?

Was the whole motivation for this deal for Crockett…in your mind…the syndication network?

You negotiate the deal with Crockett and Watts’ wrote that he wasn’t smart enough in transactions and since he didn’t buy insurance to cover the sale - when Crockett was went broke and sold to Turner…his deal was toast at that point wasn’t it?

Part of the deal was that Crockett would take ownership of the offices in Dallas that Watts had. People have said that this was part of the ultimate issue with Crockett - what say you?

Watts would write that Paul Boesch would be super hot at Watts over the sale - and eventually had to pay Watts out for his percentage of Houston when Boesch sold to Vince. What was the relationship between Boesch & Watts? Was it always tenuous?

The fact that JCP had the original invasion angle with the UWF - and never really did anything that meant with it - was it meant to be when the WWE fumbled the invasion angle with WCW?

Didn’t anybody learn anything from that?

Notes from Crockett about this topic in Conversations with Conrad:

Crockett said he was told by Rob Garner that getting Watts’ syndication timeslots would put them over the magic number for national stations (over 100) to be more competitive with Vince (who had over 200). Crockett felt this was something he had to do straight away to keep up with Vince, which is why the deal went together quickly

Crockett says it was a good decision to buy UWF, but also a bad decision.

Crockett said Watts was a pain in the ass to deal with, and Watts didn't get much out of the deal in the end. Crockett described it as a shambles.

They inherited Watts’ TV bills (UWF was paying their stations to host their TV), but Crockett didn’t pay any of them.

Crockett didn’t really confirm or deny that JR brokered for himself to come on board as the lead announcer for Crockett, he didn’t feel misled by JR or Watts in discussions, but ultimately didn’t get what they expected out of the deal.

They were spread too thin management wise, and couldn’t take advantage of any good things from the deal.

It was the beginning of the end for Crockett as Vince’s business got stronger, and Crockett’s business ended up being weaker after the UWF purchase.

WrestleMania III put the fear of god in him, if Mania wasn’t such a huge success then he may not have gone through with buying UWF.

Led to some heat with David Crockett who suggested they wait on buying UWF because Watts is probably gonna go under anyway, and they could just pick up those TV stations then, but Jim Crockett felt they had to act right away

From JR’s book

“Now, the way I see it,” I continued, “is that if you were to buy Watts out, you could have yourself a Super Bowl—except you’d own both teams.” Crockett’s face wasn’t telling me much. I didn’t know if he was interested or not, but I was “in” now, so decided to keep going. “You keep your show on TBS and you put UWF on there, too. Have your NWA guys win an equal amount and your UWF guys win an equal amount until you cash in once a year with Supershow, pitting one league against the other.”

“How much?” Crockett replied.

“I expect McMahon will have interest, but we’re coming to you first,” I said, ignoring his question.

“How much?” Crockett asked again.

Bill’s two million price tag was on the tip of my tongue.

“Four million,” I said.

Crockett nodded. My personal split was going to be 5 percent of the overall sale price. I brought up the number to give me some room to negotiate.

I could see Crockett wanted UWF, he wanted to double his efforts to compete with Vince, and Watts had 120 individual TV contracts that would hugely help in that regard.

My percentage of a deal would give me room to plan my own next move. I wanted to go home, but I had nothing to go home to.

“Tell Bill to call me,” Crockett said as he and Garner left the room.

This takes big balls JR - was this the heaviest negotiation you were a part of?

“After they left, I waited a respectable amount of time to make sure both men were gone before calling Bill from a payphone. This time I had a calling card and didn’t have to call collect as Gene Kiniski.

This was twice what he asked for—and just as importantly to a stubborn, prideful man like Cowboy, this was a “respectable” way out of the wrestling business. He wouldn’t be seen as beaten; he would be seen as someone who sold his company at a price he couldn’t walk away from.

“Bill,” I said as Cowboy answered the phone.

And in the middle of an airport terminal in Atlanta, I told the man who brought me into the business that I just “sold” the company which started my career.”

This was best case scenario for both of you was it not?

If at any point - Watts sold to Turner, or Vince, or even Crockett a year earlier - how different is the wrestling landscape at this point?