STW - The Hart Foundation [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today Bruce we’re here to discuss one of the greatest tag teams of all-time… we’re talking all things Hart Foundation.

Let’s get into it Bruce! The Hart Foundation is remembered as one of the classic teams of a different era - as in the mid to late 80s - tag teams were a major part of the WWF at the time.

Bret was the great technician and workhorse of the team while Neidhart was the power man with the charisma. When you entered the WWF in 1987 - they had to be someone you were excited about working with and contributing creative for, am I right?

Bret came into the WWF first, debuting in August 1984 as a babyface.

Neidhart - Bret’s brother-in-law followed a few months later in January 1985, as a heel managed by Mr. Fuji. But when Jimmy Hart came up in February he was paired with Neidhart straight away as a singles.

In April 1985 Bret was turned heel, and all three were put together to form The Hart Foundation. What did you think of the package the first time you saw them on WWF TV?

It takes a while for the team to fully gel together, and Jimmy and Jim do all the talking mostly in the promos, and it takes Bret a while to get more comfortable in front of the camera and cut heel promos. Do you remember a moment in which Bret finally got it?

They slowly modified their gear too, starting in all black tights, then adding various colors before deciding on an almost obnoxious all pink in late 1986. And when Vince sees it, he tells them never to change from that look. You can’t see pink & black and not think of the Hart Foundation, am I right?

The feud between the Bulldogs & Hart Foundation is legendary - almost for the wrong reasons. Yes they’re all from that Stampede era - all trained by Stu Hart…how good were they together?

Did you ever hear about the infamous story about Dynamite Kid’s back and having to be dragged to ringside to drop the titles?

The story - as written in Dynamite Kid’s book - is that Vince wanted them to drop the titles to Nikolai Volkoff & Iron Sheik - but the Bulldogs refused and requested the Hart Foundation. Have you ever heard that story and do you believe there’s any validity to it?

The match is the impetus to Danny Davis turning heel and going from referee to wrestler - what can you tell us about Danny Davis?

Bret would write this in his book: “I looked down at my new belt, realizing what being a champion had cost Tom. I wondered what it would cost me. In that moment I vowed never to forget that wrestling is a work, and I also vowed to pace myself for the long haul. I wanted to come out the other end in one piece.”

That’s…quite the statement from Bret in his book isn’t it?

This sets up WrestleMania III, and the Hart Foundation & Danny Davis defeating the Bulldogs & Tito Santana in a 6-man in Davis’ first televised match…crazy that Dynamite was able to make the match - but the big Rhino, Bret & Danny get the win. You think Stu Hart ever imagined his son would work in front of 93,000 people?

When WrestleMania 3 ends and you come into play…the Bulldogs get a rematch for the titles on SNME taped on April 28 and win a Best 2 out of 3 falls matches, but as the first fall was on a DQ, the Harts kept the belts. What are your first memories of meeting the Anvil, Bret & Jimmy?

Were they easy to work with?

The two teams would then feud over the spring and summer in bloody cage matches on the house shows, while the Harts would also defend against the likes of the Killer Bees, the Rougeau Brothers and the Can-Am Connection. Did you ever see a bad Hart Foundation match in 1987?

When Tom Zenk of the Can-Am Connection quit the company, we needed to find a new partner for Rick Martel. Later in August, Martel is put with Tito Santana to form Strike Force. Talk about 4 workers who fit each other perfectly…right Bruce?

Did you prefer Zenk & Martel versus Tito & Martel?

From the Observer

“There was a famous match, but only in the city of Montreal, during that period.

The Hart Foundation was defending the titles on August 10, 1987, at the Forum in Montreal, against the local heroes, Jacques & Raymond Rougeau. The finish of the match saw Jimmy Hart drop his megaphone, the Rougeaus got it and used it behind the refs back and won the match and the titles. That night, on the biggest sports bulletin in TVA, it was announced that the Rougeaus had won the WWF world tag team titles.

The next week on the local inserts for Montreal, Jack Tunney said that the belts were being given back to the Hart Foundation due to the use of the megaphone.

“At the political level, the Americans didn’t want French-Canadian babyface tag team champions,” remembered Raymond Rougeau about that time. “But Pat Patterson (who was booking at the time), thought that, for Montreal, it would be good for us to win the titles. So they had to find a way that would allow us to win the titles in the province without having to lose them back in the U.S. It was Pat who came up with this idea.”

Do you remember this story and all this? How popular were these two teams in Canada at the time?

Bret & Anvil are put into big spots often…having Mr. T be a guest enforcer working against the Young Stallions and they are part of the finish helping Honky Tonk Man defeat Randy Savage and retain the Intercontinental title - and when Hulk comes out for the save and to form the MEGA POWERS - it’s Bret, Anvil & Honky taking the bumps for them. This was no small spot at the time was it Bruce?

Eventually the Hart Foundation would drop the titles to Strike Force when Martel forces Neidhart to submit to the boston crab and of course Anvil would claim he never submitted to set up the rematches. Why was now the time to take the titles off the Hart Foundation?

Bret would write in his book about how he would draw on the chalkboard during this time funny cartoons - any memories of these that you can share with us?

You would interview the Hart Foundation at a WWF show in Houston on November 6th where the Hart Foundation would challenge Strike Force in Houston the next month. How far do you think they come along with promos? Did they need Jimmy still at this point?

On Saturday Night’s Main Event - Bret would get a big opportunity in a singles match against Randy Savage. From Bret’s book: “On the afternoon of November 11, we met and worked out a great match, but less than an hour before showtime, Vince summoned us to his office. He wanted a completely different match, tied to a TV storyline around me working Randy’s ankle. When I explained that working Randy’s ankle would limit his mobility and take the speed out of the match, Vince cut me off: “You’re the great worker, figure it out.”

I mean - Vince saying that to Bret - that really means something doesn’t it?

Bret would also say this about our good friend…Dave Meltzer in his book:

“I worked hard in the Survivor Series and surprised myself by being pleased that I got raves in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter for being the best performer. (Dave Meltzer wrote, “Hart was fantastic.”) This was long before the Internet, and the sheets were the way fans, and even promoters, got their info about the business. But I had a problem with anyone who wasn’t in the business writing about it as if they knew what they were talking about. I’ve always maintained that the only way to really know who is a great worker and who isn’t is to have wrestled him. My usual attitude was that Meltzer, and others, were making a living off other people’s sweat and broken bones by exposing a business they really had no part of. But then I’d come home to find my mom reading the sheets with Stu. Promoters were so tight-lipped that the only way anyone in the business could learn anything about what was going on in other territories—and sometimes even in their own territory—was from someone outside the business. That was the ultimate irony: Most wrestlers hated the sheets, but they were the first to flock around if someone brought one into the dressing room.”

Can you imagine Stu Hart reading the Observer? What do you think his star rating system was?

Bret would write in his book that Vince called him to tell him he had gotten more mail than Hogan and it was time to turn Bret babyface. Do you really think Bret was getting that much mail?

It would lead to the split of the Hart Foundation. Was it tough for Jim to be on his own?

The WrestleMania that would lead to this would be in Atlantic City at Mania 4 - and it would come down to Bret & Bad News Brown. Brown gets the win by nefarious means and Bret smashes the trophy to a big babyface pop - that pop would be much different if Bret acted like that in say…1997 wouldn’t it?

Putting Bret & Bad News together made sense because of their time together at Stampede right Bruce?

Did anyone have any ideas for Jim?

Jim doesn’t do anything, Bret is putting Bad News over because Brown is being set up for Hogan - it was obvious they weren’t ready to be split right?

They would reform - albeit this time without Jimmy Hart - and the Hart Foundation were babyfaces together again. The guys have said this was one step backwards for them - but hindsight being 20/20 - it’s the right move at the time was it not?

They feud with Jimmy Hart and Neidhart even got some singles matches with Rick Rude. Did you ever see any of them?

Bret would write in his book that Jim was his own worst enemy. Is that a fair assessment of the big Rhino?

Owen would debut with the WWF and join Bret & Jim on the road. Did you ever see them all coming together in one big faction?

The Hart Foundation music would change around this time as well and it would become the classic song that really Bret is now known for. Do you think that brought another level to the presentation?

At SummerSlam - the Hart Foundation would lose to Demolition after Jimmy Hart’s megaphone helped defeat his former team. With the Harts being programmed with Jimmy as their main antagonist - was it tough to get them over as a tag team?

The Fabulous Rougeaus would eventually get Jimmy Hart as their manager - and it felt like the Hart Foundation was moving backwards did it not Bruce? The story was Jimmy was still claiming to own half of the Hart Foundation’s contract, and gave that half to the Rougeaus, so every time the Harts wrestled, the Rougeaus were getting half of the purse. Gotta get to that pay window didn’ they?

Back on the road the Harts would be taking on the Rougeaus with Brother Love as special guest referee. Why were you put in the middle of this match?

At WrestleMania 5 - it’s the Hart Foundation taking on Honky Tonk & Greg Valentine - not yet Rhythm & Blues. Bret would be working with Honky Tonk and did not have the best things to say about him in his book: “With his skinny arms and bandy legs, Honky’s punches and kicks looked like they couldn’t break an egg: he was just so damn phony. The old-school boys, who prided themselves on realistic matches, had all but been eradicated.”

These two never got along when they were working together did they?

Bret would move on to get to work Andre in Italy as the usual European tour after WrestleMania was even standard back then. Did you ever talk with Andre about what he thought of the Harts?

The Hart Foundation would sort of go their separate ways as Bret would be wrestling Mr. Perfect and Neidhart would be wrestling Warlord or Barbarian. Talk about two different matches for the two men Bruce.

Chat me up - why was there always this stop & go on breaking up the Hart Foundation? Was it Neidhart holding Bret back?

They would come back together to take on the Rockers - another babyface tag team. How hard is it to book babyface tag teams against each other?

They would even take on the Brain Busters at SummerSlam in a non-title match and lose. Man - looking back - that could’ve been a big time program couldn’t it?

Survivor Series 1989 is quite interesting. Bret is on a team with Hacksaw Jim Duggan’s 4X4 team with Hercules and Ronnie Garvin losing to Randy Savage’s King’s Court team with Greg Valentine, Dino Bravo and Earthquake.

Neidhart is on the Ultimate Warriors team with The Rockers, with Warrior being the sole survivor against the Heenan Family. There’s never a story behind why they’re not teaming - why do you think that was?

Not long after this Bret would write in his book that he went to Vince to discuss money - and Vince told him if he wasn’t happy he should go somewhere else. Was that just the state of the business at the time - or catching Vince on a bad day?

Bret would go on to write about how he called WCW - and Ric Flair was the booker at the time - and almost immediately offered him a guaranteed $200,000 a year contract. But Flair wasn’t in a position to offer that - and eventually Jim Barnett offers Bret $156k instead and that was the end of that. Did you hear this story and rumor?

At WrestleMania - Bret & Neidhart would defeat the Bolsheviks in just 18 seconds. Chat me up Bruce - is that impressive or just shows where they were at at this point in time?

It would lead to SummerSlam where the Hart Foundation would challenge Demolition - this time Brian Adams as Crush & Barry Darsow as Smash in a 2 out of 3 falls match for the WWF Tag Team Titles. The Legion of Doom would help the Hart Foundation get the win and the titles even though one of the falls was by DQ - but whatever you needed to do to get the belts off them right Bruce?

It’s reported in October that Vince calls a meeting for the Hart Foundation - but Jim is told to wait outside. Here’s what Bret says in his book:

“The first thing he said was, “Bret, we’re going with you in singles.” With the Tag belt I thought I had a rock-solid position, but now everything was uncertain again. “This is going to be the big push,” he said. “The real push—the one I’ve always promised you. The one you’ve been waiting for. The one you deserve. You’ll be involved in all the major angles with all the top men, and it’s not going to be like all those other times where we didn’t come through. The plans I have for you are bigger than anything you’ve ever imagined.”

I mean - how do you say no right?

From Bret’s book:

“I asked, “What about Jim?” Vince’s face grew serious. “I’ll be letting seventeen guys go today and Jim’s not one of them. I’m thinking I’ll try him at the announcing table for a while, putting him on salary with a pension and full company benefits. I can’t let him go—he owes me a lot of money from all his legal fees.” Vince’s plan was that The Foundation would drop the belts to The Rockers at the next TVs, at which they’d also be taping -SNME. When I left the room Jim looked like a prisoner preparing to see the warden. Afterwards, he did his best to appear upbeat, but it was easy to see he was devastated. At least he had his ongoing countersuit against U.S. Air and the hope of an eventual settlement.”

It has to suck to be Neidhart here - but at least he didn’t get cut right?

That night in Fort Wayne - are you there?

Here’s the report from Bret Hart’s book: “What started out as a terrific match snowballed into a colossal cluster-fuck after Jim accidentally broke the top rope. The match was taped and could easily be edited, but the ref, Freddie Sparta, couldn’t figure out that he needed to temporarily stop the bout and fix the rope, even though I explained it to him.”

Bruce - what was the scene like backstage when this happens?

When is it determined that you can’t air the match? As you’re watching it live?

It’s decided not to air the title change - who made that call do you remember?

Neidhart returns to the company and the title change doesn’t take place. Do you know what the turn around was for Neidhart? Was it Stu calling Vince?

Neidhart gets a reprieve but really the team limps towards the end at WrestleMania VII in Los Angeles when the Nasty Boys - with the help of Jimmy Hart - defeat the Hart Foundation and win the World Tag Team Titles. Hindsight - do you wish the Rockers match was airable?

Why was it the Nasty Boys turn?

Was there more to do with the Hart Foundation or was it time to move on and split them up?

They’d have a couple more matches as a team - at the WWF/SWS WrestleFest show in Japan where they would open the show and defeat the Rockers, also Power & Glory in England and finally Demolition at the Wembley Arena.

The final match of Bret & Jim as a tag team was a Prime Time Wrestling match taped in the Garden when the Nasty Boys would defeat them again with the help of Jimmy Hart. It would be 6 years before they would team up as an actual tag team again. Did you ever see a big singles run for the Rhino?

Bret would of course go on to be the IC champion at SummerSlam that year - before Jim would become a color commentator. What did you think of Jim in that role?

Was it Stu that kept Jim on the roster do you think - with this relationship with Vince?

Jim would be managed by Andre the Giant in some matches - working Earthquake, before taken off commentary. He would spend the rest of the year putting over IRS, and even worked the Nature Boy losing to the figure four. Flair would put it on him twice afterwards - forcing Neidhart to be walked to the back - but was jumped by the Beverly Brothers - taking him out of the Survivor Series. This would lead to Owen & Neidhart forming the New Hart Foundation. New…just doesn’t work does it Bruce?

You would return to the WWF in 1992 after a brief hiatus, but while you’re gone the rumor and innuendo is that Neidhart had been fired for refusing to take a drug test. Did you hear that?

In 1994 - when Bret & Owen would team up to set up the break up and heel turn for Owen…they were never referred to as the Hart Foundation. Why do you think that was?

Neidhart would return in 1994 - turning on Bret and siding with Owen. Was this Stu getting him rehired?

The scene at the end of SummerSlam 94 - I mean not the Taker vs. Faker match- but at the end of the cage match - with Neidhart & Owen beating on Bret while Davey Boy and the rest of the Hart family couldn’t get in - really should’ve ended that show shouldn’t it Bruce?

Bret has said in the past that there was a plan to put the tag titles on Owen & Neidhart in the WWF Tag Team Title Tournament instead of 1-2-3 Kid & Sparky Plugg - did you ever hear that?

Was it true Neidhart was released due to missing shots?

Jim would return to the WWF as Who in 1996 for just 3 months before the Hart Foundation would reunite in 1997 as a stable this time. We have covered all that & more in our archives at somethingtowrestle.com so check them out!

Bruce - what is the Hart Foundation’s legacy as a tag team?

In your mind - did you enjoy them more as babyfaces or heels?

Are you happy to see the Hart Foundation in the Hall of Fame and well deserved is it not?