My World w/ Jeff Jarrett - Turning Point 2008 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today we’re discussing 15 years ago Jeff - Turning Point 2008.

We have discussed this time period before - in our previous episode - Creating the Main Event Mafia…so be sure to check that out in our archives at myworldpod.com

But today we’re going to be discussing all of the business for TNA…

Coming out of Bound for Glory 2008…Wade Keller isn’t super excited about the direction of TNA and even brings up some of the storyline aspects you utilized for your match with Kurt.

From the Torch

Jeff Jarrett made the controversy of his utilizing the real-life tragedy of his wife dying seem restrained and tasteful by sinking even lower by incorporating his daughters into it on this show. They actually overtly played off of the fact that at some point Jeff had to tell his daughters "mommy's not coming home" after she died of breast cancer by having Angle say to Jeff's daughters through the camera, "Daddy's not coming home."

When Jarrett won, Mike Tenay did a shout-out to the daughters, as if it'd have been inspirational for them to watch their dad beat up a man who said "Daddy's not coming home" into the camera and bashing him over the head with a guitar, but not before watching their dad take a blunt chairshot to the head. Tenay made it sound like Jarrett's daughters were watching and that would be appropriate if so.

What do you say to that Jeff?

You would make mention of this in the Daily Star and have this to say:

“"No I did not know he was going to say that," Jarrett told Patrick Lennon. "I spoke to him about it afterwards and told him he needed to focus. I told him ‘You're hurting yourself.' Kurt is Kurt, what you see is what you get. The person we hired two years ago is not the person we have today, he's going through a lot of change outside the ring."

Was this Kurt going into business for himself - or are you pushing a storyline here?

You’re in an interesting spot Jeff. You form this new super stable - you have a pay-per-view to build for…but the reality is you’re also building to a live show on Spike from Las Vegas. What was more important for TNA at this point - providing ratings for TV or pay-per-view buyrates?

The focus of the show is the first show for TNA in HD - what did that mean to TNA in terms of product presentation…

And also finance? How much money did this cost?

It’s reported in the Observer that there was a decision made to no longer have Karen be on TV as the divorce between Kurt & Karen made the work environment uncomfortable. Who’s call was that? Who spoke to her about that decision?

Also the Observer reported that the video game underperformed based on expectations and it wouldn’t be in the top 50 of games sold in the US. What can you tell us about the performance of the video game?

Johnny Devine is released after Bound for Glory and according to the Observer he had requested it more than a month ago but the agreement was he would finish up at Bound for Glory. Devine said he didn’t feel he had any upward mobility - what were your feelings on Devine and his request for release?

Ask you keep bringing in people like Mick Foley - it’s the lower card wrestlers that have issues with this considering it takes up TV time and money - was there any type of issues in the locker room when things like this takes place?

It’s reported that the character Suicide was put on hold when Frankie Kazarian had surgery on his triceps. What did you think of the idea of the character, the name, and Kazarian being the person behind the mask?

The Impact after Bound for Glory is all about the formation of the Main Event Mafia. You have Kurt Angle destroying 4 X division wrestlers to get a rematch with you…Kevin Nash explaining that he decided to turn on Samoa Joe when he cut that promo back in December about Scott Hall…and Sting - the new TNA Champion - and said Joe was the better man at Bound for Glory but Sting left as champion. AJ would come out and slap Sting twice before there was a pull apart. How successful did you think the Main Event Mafia could be?

This episode also features Kurt Angle beating the ever living shit out of David Penzer which I just saw on Twitter the other day. Did Penzer owe Kurt money?

There’s quite the segment on this show - where Mick Foley admits to being a junkie - a roller coaster junkie. And he says that his TNA time has been the ride of his life but that it was coming to an end. Jeff - Mick had been shown on the company in 3 weeks. How did this make any sense?

The show ends with you & Mick getting into a car and you say you’re driving to Las Vegas. Mick says he has an announcement next week that will change wrestling. This…this is something Jeff.

The episode draws a 1.1 rating with 1.5 million viewers. Feels like there’s a little steam building quickly isn’t there?

In an odd move though - Spike moves the Saturday replay where it you were getting a decent audience - to Saturday morning. Did you have any control in that or was that always a Spike decision? Do you know why the shake up and move?

It’s announced that Ric Flair has left the WWE and could be wrestling again - just a few months after his retirement match with Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania. Did you poke around - see if there was any interest? Did you look into a price tag of the Nature Boy?

It’s reported in the Observer that BG James - you know, the Road Dogg - was transitioning to a road agent role. Why the move for Brian at this point in his career?

Akira Raijin is signed to a 2-year deal and in the Observer its reported that you directed Terry Taylor to sign him after seeing him in a dark match. What can you tell us about Raijin and why you wanted him signed?

You would get the UFC to help promote the live Las Vegas special with Mike Goldberg plugging the show. Was it difficult to work with UFC and get cross promotion - and why was this any different?

There’s a big shift coming out of Ring of Honor where Cary Silkin replaces Gabe Sapolsky as booker with Adam Pearce. Did this news come across your radar - and was there any talk or feelings that Gabe would be someone you would be interested in having come in to work on creative?

TNA goes live from Las Vegas at the Hard Rock for TNA’s debut in HD. The show is built around the reveal of what has been in Booker T’s briefcase and Mick Foley’s major announcement.

The show draws a…1.1 rating. Same as last week. Now in the Torch its said that TNA blamed it on the World Series and game 2 ratings - even though those ratings themselves were down 20% from the previous year’s World Series. It’s not all bad though. It was the largest overall audience since July and the best 18-49 male demo since January and the main event segment would have a peak of 1.31 - among the most watched segments in TNA history.

But the rating itself…is that a disappointment in the overall grand scheme of things?

The story is that you asked Mick Foley how much money he had since he was always known as the “cheapest, tightest, more frugal wrestler who ever laced up a pair of boots.” Jeff - is this a Vince Russo idea? Mick Foley idea? Do you think this makes the company look bad that you go to Mick Foley to ask for money to help fund TNA?

The Main Event Mafia would come out and it would lead to Kurt headbutting him and Foley making the announcement he made a major investment in TNA and he’s now the major shareholder in the company and that you made this deal to help counteract the Main Event Mafia. What’s the connection between the two? Do you think this was explained well?

Was this the best use of Mick Foley in his TNA role?

From Wade Keller

“Since they established how cheap and frugal Foley is, will fans now wonder if Foley's storyline ownership role in TNA will lead to major budget cuts, low pay for wrestlers, no more catering, cuts in production values, and other "frugal" management decisions? The show closed with Tenay recapping the happenings on the show as the Mafia stared back at Foley in the ring. Tenay said TNA hit the jackpot tonight.”

Where exactly does this make Mick a likeable babyface in your mind?

Also on that show featured quite the interesting gimmick match. Fans would text in to determine the order of a gauntlet match for tag teams. Then during the match fans could text in what weapon they would want to be legal - table, ladder or chair. This is quite an interesting idea. Do you think it led to a lot of engagement and how did it work? Who monitored it? Did you follow the results or was it all a work?

Booker would also reveal the Legends championship. Jeff - where does the idea of this title come from?

Meltzer would speculate the plan was for it to help elevate the younger talent by working with Booker…was that the plan?

Did TNA need another title on top of the World & X Division?

Booker and Christian would cut a promo on each other to set up their match at Turning Point. Does it seem silly to have these two fighting over a Legends title?

Speaking of the X division title - it’s on the line that night with Sheik defending against Jay Lethal…and Sheik wins in 2 minutes. The X division needed a better showcase on this night didn’t it?

Also the Knockouts title changed hands in 3 minutes when Awesome Kong regained it from Taylor Wilde. Was the show so overbooked there wasn’t much room for the actual wrestling?

When the show is over - did you feel that you needed Impact to be taped out of the Impact Zone more?

Meltzer would say that the Main Event Mafia was like the nWo, the heels are cool babyfaces to the crowd. Was that a worry when booking a group like this with such star power?

Did Mick in this role effectively cancel out Jim Cornette as the head of the executive committee when Mick is the biggest shareholder and you’re referred to as an owner?

The next week - with Mick “in charge” and the Main Event Mafia officially named - the show would move up in ratings to a 1.2. Listen .1 is still better than going down right?

The Impact Zone is redesigned with the move to HD. Who would all do that for TNA - Keith Mitchell?

It’s definitely a step in the right direction with bigger screens and looked much better - were you happy with it?

Volador & Tanahashi debut for TNA on the show taking on the Motor City Machine Guns after being introduced by Sheik Bashar. How did the deal come together for Volador & Tanahashi to come to TNA?

Did Vince Russo just not know how to book these guys do you think - considering they lost to the MCMG in 4 minutes?

A stipulation is added to Booker vs. Christian where if Christian loses he would have to join the Mafia. I mean that doesn’t sound like it’s a bad deal to me Jeff?

Sting would come out to get into a promo battle with Mick Foley…but it’s the second week in a row he’s got no facepaint and he’s in a suit…and the Observer would call him Real Estate Steve. Was this the best way to portray Sting in this role? Even with him still slapping fans’ hands as he goes down the aisle?

The group of Joe, Styles, Jay Lethal etc is known as…THE YOUNG GUNS. Jeff - Russo couldn’t come up with anything better?

It’s reported in the Torch that Jeremy Borash & Kurt Angle were in negotiations with SiriusXM about doing a show and the conversation was with Tim Sabean. Was this a real conversation?

From the Observer

“TNA just hired Bill Goertel at the new Director of Graphics. Goertel comes from WWE, where he ran the graphics department for more than a decade. He had left WWE a few months back. Goertel was at the forefront of the WWE switch from PCs to Apples for all things editing related, which was considered a major positive move at the time. According to one person in WWE with him, “TNA grabbed a great talent that will help them with a key weakness they’ve had forever: graphic design.” Dorian Roldan of AAA was wanting to get him when he found out he was out of WWE.”

Chat me up about Goertel!

Pat Kenney & Glenn Gilbertti are let go as road agents. Was this a cost cutting measure?

It seems like you’re left with Dutch, Savio Vega, Jim Cornette & Road Dogg as agents. Were you comfortable with that?

Is there concern that with the major push of the Main Event Mafia - while new house shows are announced - that those guys won’t be on those shows? Is that a conversation you have with them?

The go-home Impact features an amazing Scott Steiner promo.

He said the young guys wrestle and then return to the back and grab their joysticks and play their videogames and look at their comic books. He said they call each other during the week and go online and play videogames. He said, "You go online to these mark wrestling sites to see if you got a four star match, a five star match. What do you care what these geeks think? Ask us what we think and we'll tell you that you suck." Nash, Booker, Angle, and Sharmell laughed. Sting might not have been listening. Steiner said he's better than each of them. "You say you've been in TNA since the beginning and you built this brick by brick," he said. "No, you were here in the beginning because you didn't have any other options."

I mean - this isn’t far from the truth right?

In something of an odd booking - Booker T - member of the Main Event Mafia…after shitting on the whole company - teams up with Beer Money to take on Christian & the Motor City Machine guns. That seems…like it shouldn’t have happened right?

There’s a ladder match for a shot at the TNA tag team titles - because why wouldn’t it be a ladder match, right? It’s between Tanahashi & Volador, Matt Morgan & Abyss, Team 3D and LAX…Abyss & Morgan get the win to set up the shot at the pay-per-view.

Nope…that’s not right. The Machine Guns have the shot - so Abyss & Morgan will get the title match at some point in the future. Did this show really need a ladder match for a future future tag team title shot?

Rhaka Khan would turn on Taylor Wilde in a tag match against Kong & Saeed - what did you see in Rhaka Khan?

Scott Steiner would defeat Samoa Joe in the main event and Nash would attack before AJ Styles would make the save.

This show would draw a 1.10 rating - down from the 1.16 the week before. Were you living and dying by the weekly numbers?

Let’s get to the pay-per-view Jeff!

The show gets a positive reaction from the Wrestling Observer readers - 81.9% voted a thumbs up.

There’s a ton of controversy though going into the event. It is reported in the Torch that the Insane Clown Posse reached out to you directly to come to the pay-per-view, and you asked if they would not dress up in make-up but just enjoy the show as spectators. Is that how the original conversation went?

From the Torch

-ICP showed up in make-up with Scott Hall and moved their way to the front row in full view of the hard camera. TNA announcers were instructed through their headsets to ignore them as best as they could. They never mentioned them by name or acknowledged their distraction until Sheik Abdul Bashir interacted with them at ringside. Even then, they just said they were "familiar faces."

Jeff - when you see this happening - how hot are you?

Who else was hot?

Bashir would get involved in them when one of the ICP members threw a soda at him and he would slap one of them. This is just a nightmare to deal with is it not?

Were you disappointed to see Scott Hall there?

Again from the Torch

-Management went to Hall's friend Kevin Nash and asked what they should do about the inebriated Hall. Nash surprised people by suggesting he be kicked out of the building and escorted off premises by Orlando police. Hall was upset with Nash, but left without incident.

Hall was not scheduled to be part of the Nash-Joe match at any point. Samoa Joe and Nash did not want any distractions and under no circumstances does TNA management nor even his friend Nash want to put Hall in a position where they have to rely on him for anything storyline-wise.

-The joke backstage, which Jeremy Borash gets credit for, was that it took Hall a full year to show up for his scheduled PPV appearance. There are still hard feelings within TNA over Hall no-showing last year and nobody is in favor of putting him in a storyline at this point, including—and perhaps especially—Joe and Nash.

What say you Jeff - was this just a nightmare for everyone involved?

Did this sour you on wanting to use Scott anymore in the future?

Do you remember talking about this with Joe & Nash? What were their thoughts?

Meltzer would have a different take:

The public version of the story is that TNA had made a deal with ICP to show up at ringside where the group would wear JCW (Juggalo Championship Wrestling) T-shirts, but claimed they didn’t know Hall would be with them, and after the match, asked them to leave ringside. However, Hall was in the dressing room prior to the show, which led to a moment where the whole locker room broke up involving Scott Steiner. When it was brought up to Steiner that Hall was there, he, in a deadpan, said, “Of course he is. It’s Turning Point and he’s here for the main event. He just doesn’t realize he’s one year late (in reference to his no-
showing Turning Point’s main event last year).”

Hall also had done an interview on the ICP web site five days earlier saying he was coming to the taping. There is no way Scott Hall is going with other wrestlers in an angle to ringside in front of the hard camera in the center without them knowing full well he is ahead of time, and more so, no matter what state Hall is in, he’s not going to put himself on camera at ringside as a fan unless it’s part of an angle. Hall was then not at the TV tapings the next two days, and was long gone on this show by the time the Joe vs. Nash match took place. But they were trying to kayfabe everyone on Hall. One TNA source said that they, in fact, saw the thing being set up and it was a completely set up angle, and couldn’t understand why they would try and swerve the wrestlers and the people in the company.”

Put it to rest Jeff - was it a work or a shoot?

From the Observer

“TNA put on a strong Turning Point show, while getting its most focused main event angle in a long time going with the Main Event Mafia vs. TNA Originals.

The show finished with five straight matches with heels going over, to set up a storyline where the babyfaces don’t have their act together, and appears to lead to Jeff Jarrett and Mick Foley giving them pep talks to mount a comeback. But the problem is that in several of those matches, it was the heels that were the babyfaces to the crowd, which is a direct byproduct of this type of booking.

But the show was a throwback to the old days of TNA where you got great matches on PPV, in front of a hot crowd in Orlando at the recently-revamped and packed Impact Zone, which now holds about 1,100 fans.”

I mean that’s a big deal to get a positive write-up from Meltzer is it not?

“1. Eric Young won a ten-man elimination Torneo Cibernetico over Consequences Creed, Sonjay Dutt, Petey Williams, Jimmy Rave, Volador Jr., (just billed as Volador), Doug Williams, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Homicide and Jay Lethal. The match went 17:12 and was billed as determining, in order based on who lasted the longest, the top ten contenders for the X Division title. Fast paced with a lot of good moves and no storytelling. Finally, Young pinned Lethal with a Northern Lights suplex. Young did a promo after the match saying all these guys in the match were wrestlers, not showmen or entertainers. He said how the best chapter in TNA history starts tonight and this is where kids become men. The crowd wasn’t into the promo as much as you’d think, which was the case for the babyfaces all night. And nobody should be surprised. ***”

There was something to this and it’s quite the match so you should watch it - but man there’s so much going on - it’s tough to really keep this organized and focused is it not?

“2. Taylor Wilde & Roxxi beat Awesome Kong & Raisha Saeed in 9:07 when Wilde pinned Saeed with a German suplex. Rhaka Khan was at ringside with Kong & Saeed and she interfered a few times. **¼”

Makes sense for Saeed to take the loss here doesn’t it?

“3. Rhino pinned X Division champ Sheik Abdul Bashir in a non-title match in 8:16. A lot of heat on Bashir after the ring introduction by a wounded and retired Vet, who did a good job. Then people lost interest in the match and were more into Hall at ringside. Finish saw Bashir spit in the face or ref Shane Sewell, who started arguing with him. As Bashir turned around, he got hit with a gore, gore gore. **”

This was done once Scott Hall got involved right?

Does it hurt the X division for their champion to lose to Rhino?

“Mick Foley did a pep talk and Alex Shelley, in particular, paid no attention to him. Shelley & Sabin showed him no respect and Foley gave a speech about how he has to forget that happened or else it would force him to believe that what Sting was saying was true, and he didn’t want to believe that. Shelley insulted him again and Creed and Lethal went after Sabin and Shelley. Petey Williams kicked Sabin & Shelley out of the dressing room, while A.J. Styles apologized to Foley about how they treated him.”

Was there a story to go with this considering Foley has said he’s always liked the Machine Guns?

“4. Robert Roode & James Storm kept the tag titles beating Sabin & Shelley in 17:01. So, after an interview segment where they were total dicks and kicked out of the face dressing room, Sabin & Shelley worked the entire match as babyfaces. Who his booking this promotion. Rod Serling? Match was real good. Crowd was into it. Roode & Storm as a team may be the most underrated act in the business. In the ring, they blow away Miz & Morrison and DiBiase & Rhodes. Jacqueline jumped into the ring attacking Sabin, who bodyslammed her. Storm spit beer into Sabin’s face as Roode & Storm used their double-team DWI, a combination diamond cutter and power bomb, for the pin. ***½”

How good was Beer Money and MCMG’s matches? Were Beer Money the best tag team in wrestling at this point in time?

“5. Booker T pinned Christian Cage in 11:45 to keep the Legends championship. Crowd wasn’t into this match. Match was okay, but nothing more. Booker got a near fall with an ax kick. Christian put on the sharpshooter. Sharmell jumped on the apron and Christian let go of the hold. Sharmell slapped Christian. Booker kicked out of the unprettier. Finish was Christian doing a rolling reverse cradle and Booker rolling with it and holding the trunks for the pin. **”

It’s reported that Christian & Dixie were in negotiations at this pay-per-view as Christian’s contract was expiring in December. Did you know at this point Christian was going to be leaving TNA?

What do you think of his time in the company? Were you happy with it? Did you get everything out of it that you wanted?

“6. Kurt Angle pinned Abyss in 17:18 in a falls count anywhere match. Angle decided to do a hardcore match and it was one of the better PPV matches of the year. Angle has this ridiculous drive to have great matches but he takes crazy risks with a damaged body in the process. Crowd was into this one from the start. At one point Angle was on the entrance stage and jumped off with a flip dive onto Abyss on the floor. Later, Angle speared Abyss through a wall. Both men disappeared for a few seconds and then came back with Angle being thrown through another wall back into the arena. Finish saw Angle and Abyss brawling on a scaffold. Abyss pressed Angle overhead and teased throwing him off the scaffold, but Angle escaped and knocked Abyss off the scaffold backwards where he crashed through the Spanish announcers table and got pinned. It was actually only a four foot drop from the scaffold to the table, but since both are elevated higher than the crowd, it appeared to be more spectacular. ****¼”

Kurt did not screw around back during this time did he? He had to have the best match every night didn’t he? How good were these two together?

“7. Kevin Nash pinned Samoa Joe in 11:26. At first I thought it was ridiculous to put this match after Angle vs. Abyss with all the stuff they were doing. And it probably would have been better reversing, but these guys were able to at least follow. Joe was clearly motivated to put on a good match since he was losing, and Nash also made sure in the match layout to protect Joe as much as possible by letting him kick out of two jackknife power bombs as well as kicking out after Nash rammed his head five times into the exposed metal turnbuckle. Crowd cheered Nash more than Joe, but that was expected. Finish saw ref Rudy Charles knocked down. Nash used a low blow and got the pin using the ropes. ***½”

This is the right finish and the right structure for how this story was going to go - but it had to be tough for Nash & Joe to follow Kurt & Abyss and the Scott Hall stuff early in the night right?

“8. Sting pinned A.J. Styles to retain the TNA title in 14:43. Hot crowd for this one. They didn’t boo either guy although Styles worked as the face and Sting worked more as the old-school world champion who came to the territory, and wasn’t a heel but became the de facto heel because the crowd wanted to see the local guy take the title. Crowd did the dueling chants early. Sting pressed Styles overhead and dropped him over the top rope to the floor. Sting wore Styles down using an abdominal stretch, and also used Eddie Gilbert’s old hotshot finisher. Styles kicked out of the first scorpion death drop. Styles came back with an enzuigiri and spiral tap for a near fall. Angle and Booker came out and Styles knocked both of them down, and went for the Pele kick on Sting, but missed, and Sting got the pin using an Oklahoma side roll. ***¼”

Makes sense for Sting to go over and him & Styles had a good match - but Sting wasn’t really working as a heel was he? Was this an issue during this time?

Looking back Jeff - were you happy with the show and the build for it?