Grilling JR - Halloween Havoc 1991 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today we’re looking back 32 years JR - discussing Halloween Havoc 1991!

This will be the first pay-per-view in the WCW era, and really the JCP era - that will not have Ric Flair advertised for it. Mind you - at Great American Bash 1991 Flair was advertised before him & Herd split right before the show…so this was WCW trying to survive on its own. This had to have been a different feeling without the Nature Boy right?

We’re going to pick up right off Clash of the Champions 16 - Fall Brawl which we covered back in the archives.

This is quite the quote in the Observer:

“Sunday on the Jim Ross radio show in Atlanta, Ross announced that Jim Herd had just been named the new president of the National Wrestling Alliance. That announcement probably meant nothing to the listening audience, but what it really meant was that at a meeting in Charlotte on Friday, World Championship Wrestling became the controlling power in the nebulous NWA. By virtue of it, Lex Luger was installed as NWA champion. WCW will again become WCW, and use the NWA name as the sanctioning body and the NWA name will be used on television once again.

This conversation about the move with Herd - how did it go?

Was he resistant or open to it?

Again from the Observer

The NWA initials hadn't been used with WCW for the past several months, and in July, the NWA board voted to recognize Ric Flair as champion, rather than go along with WCW's decision to strip Flair of the title when he was fired.

Apparently the NWA board, whose legal counsel was Dennis Guthrie, who is also Flair's attorney, had seven members. The voting power, at least as far as the ability to control the NWA championship, was in the hands of those who actually aren't even promoting wrestling these days. The seven-member board consisted of Jim Crockett, Gary Juster, Jim Herd, Larry O'Dea (Australia), Steve Rickard Sr., Steve Rickard Jr. (both based in New Zealand who rarely promote wrestling these days) and one vote split between Carl and Elliot Murnick (ex-NWA promoters who were dumped by Herd). O'Dea, apparently after being convinced by Jim Barnett of the WCW office, switched his allegiance to the WCW contingent of Crockett, Juster and Herd, and the four votes were enough to make Herd the new NWA president, and also give WCW the power to control the NWA championship.

At the end of the day - what did Jim Crockett have to do with WCW at this point?

What would Jim Barnett say about all the dirt JR?

Do you think with losing Flair - all this was a help or a burden for the brand?

Meltzer would continue:

“While this really means nothing, the real reason behind all this is a continuing battle over just who owns the NWA championship belt and perhaps a method of fighting back by WCW which had been publicly embarrassed by Flair leaving the promotion with the championship belt and appearing on WWF television with it. It is somewhat unclear as to who actually owns the belt, as Flair claims ownership based on a contract settlement for money owed him by Jim Crockett when Crockett's debts overwhelmed him in 1988. WCW claimed ownership, believing that the belt was one of the things Turner Broadcasting purchased when it purchased Jim Crockett Promotions in 1988 and there was talk this past week that they were going to take steps to legally gain possession of the belt, this, apparently, being that step. What is clear is that Flair was going to have to be paid the value of the belt by WCW when it came time for him to lose it. However, as NWA champion, WCW didn't have the legal right to buy the belt back from Flair. I'm not clear if they even do now, but certainly it strengthens their legal claim.”

How involved were you with the NWA title? Specifically the belt?

Do you think it hurt the brand without it being a focal point?

“WCW has organized a "steering committee" as opposed to a booking committee. The committee is "responsible for discussing with our Director of Wrestling Operations, Dusty Rhodes, the direction of and emphasis on the various WCW money streams and the priority placed on each one. So the committee, composed of Jim Crockett, Jim Ross, Rhodes, Terry Allen (Magnum T.A.), Jim Barnett and Jim Herd is there to set long-term direction and emphasis and will have weekly meetings.”

Chat me up JR - the steering committee - what did it entail?

“One Man Gang's future is in limbo. On 9/13 in Charleston, he refused to do a clean job for P.N. News, although he did it in a polite way as opposed to others who aren't so polite about things. He was told to go home for a few days and think things over but the last word I've got is that he isn't expected back. Gang did work the match that night and they had him lose via DQ but he was sent home after the show.”

When OMG gives up on putting people over - is that a sign?

There’s issues as reported in the Observer about New York distribution. Why was the JCP syndication always an issue?

How do you think it could’ve been saved - if anything?

From the Observer

“Tom Zenk was arrested on Thursday on a misdemeanor battery charge and also with

possession of marijuana and possession of steroids and spent the night in prison. The steroid charge is a felony. After a hearing on Monday, his bail was placed at $36,000. The company has been very supportive of Zenk in this situation.”

The world is a whole lot different now with drugs isn’t it?

“Cactus Jack signed a contract for, I believe, either one or two years.”

How excited are you to have Mick Foley?

“Steve Austin is already back in action after dislocating his knee last week. Diamond Studd also suffered some kind of a leg injury over the weekend. Big Van Vader returns at the end of October.”

At this point in time with the wrestlers - if someone claimed an injury - did you always belive it?

As Halloween Havoc is being built up on the syndicated shows - it’s not exactly star studded. But as people get replaced and then added - like Big Van Vader, Cactus Jack & Abdullah the Butcher - did you think you needed the names to get the gimmick over?

It’s reported at the time OMG, Dick Murdoch & Dick Slater were both released. What can you tell us about them?

At Center Stage in mid-to-late October, Barry Windham breaks his hand. Does that throw everything in disarray?

We move on to WCW TV - and Meltzer is critical at this point.

“WCW TV the past two weeks has been more lively than in the recent past, particularly intense was a short brawl with Bobby Eaton vs. Abdullah the Butcher with solid chair shots on both sides ending with Cactus Jack doing the run-in and leaving Eaton and Rick Steiner laying.

9/24 at Center Stage saw tapings for WCW on 10/5 and 10/12. This coming weekend has The Freebirds in a squash ending in 1:00 when The Enforcers do a run-in. This set up an impromptu *** match between the two ending with Garvin scoring a clean pin on Anderson. It was announced on TV that the Enforcers wouldn't be giving the Birds any more title matches. Steve Austin beat Chip the Firebreaker (Curtis Thompson) to keep the TV title when Austin head-butted Chip when he went for a leapfrog. Paul E. Dangerously did an interview with Abdullah and Cactus Jack where they opened a big box which had a birthday cake for Sting and they sang Happy Birthday as they both ate cake.”

Was the people booking TV stopping good TV and matches from happening?

“There was an altercation on 9/23 in Dothan, AL at syndicated tapings where Luger beat up Dustin Rhodes and they replayed it.”

Why didn’t Dustin land in this company for longer? Do you think it was just the non-Dusty scenario?

The Torch reports…

“In a story that we don't have full details on at press time, Paul E. Dangerously was suspended indefinitely by World Championship Wrestling on Monday morning and missed the WCW television taping on 10/7 at Center Stage in Atlanta.

The suspension, said to be with pay, covers all activities related to the company. Dangerously (Paul Heyman) is under an announcing contract reported to be in the $125,000 to $150,000 per year range which expires on April 1, 1992. It was no secret within wrestling that the WCW steering committee wanted to change his role from announcer back to manager (of The Enforcers, and also of Rick Rude if WCW could strike a deal with Rude). Dangerously didn't want the role change unless they were going to make a new financial deal since it involved more traveling and because his contract specifically called for added money for house show dates. However, from all accounts, this suspension had nothing to do with money or changes in the role.”

JR - we have touched on this a lot - why was Paul hard to deal with at this point?

What was his ceiling if Turner didn’t get in the way?

Continued from the Observer:

“Apparently there was a deal that was struck between WCW and Jerry Jarrett which would have resulted in a title unification match with Lex Luger and Jerry Lawler. The National Wrestling Alliance name was going to be re-introduced as the supposed leading world heavyweight title, but not until the Luger-Lawler match took place. The company was working legally on regaining possession of the old NWA world title belt that Ric Flair has been using on television and apparently, if the belt could be regained legally, which is still very much in question, the Luger-Lawler winner would get the belt. Apparently this was an attempt at a strike back against the World Wrestling Federation, which seemingly had the dream match to settle the so-called real world title situation with the Hulk Hogan-Ric Flair matches that obviously are clearly the focal point of American pro wrestling right now to both WCW and WWF fans. Anyway, the storyline would be something to the effect of Luger challenging all world title claimants. Of course, neither Hogan, Flair, or whomever may wind up holding a title in the WWF would respond. Lawler would be the "only" world champion who would respond and they'd market a match or series of matches to determine what they would call the "real" world title and introduce the NWA name again with the crowning of the championship. The angle to start this scenario was scheduled to be shot at a WCW television taping on 11/11 in Memphis.”

Was this all bullshit and slowing down WCW as a building brand and do you think Hulk & Vince thought that as well?

“Well, over the past few days, WCW postponed the 11/11 television taping in Memphis, and then Jarrett canceled the entire scenario, apparently claiming that word had leaked out in wrestling. As WCW officials were saying Monday night, and friends of Dangerously were confirming, the story given out was that Dangerously told Eddie Gilbert. Somehow this caused Jarrett to feel that too many people knew. Since he was used to all of his angles being secretive since he's from the old school, he backed out on the deal, or at least that is how the story goes Dangerously was then suspended for the remainder of his contract.”

JR - how could you ever get ahead if the company is always falling behind?

The Observer would continue

“ As the story goes, Dangerously has maintained not only that he didn't tell Gilbert anything, but that he himself knew nothing of the Lawler-Luger scenario until being told he was the reason the deal fell through, except he did know the date of the already postponed television taping in Memphis. Indeed, until this entire scenario exploded with Dangerously's suspension, virtually nothing having to do with this scenario was known even by the most avid insiders other than some people knowing a Luger-Lawler match was in the works because of a report by Jim Ross on Saturday on the WCW hotline.”

What was the plan - if there was any - that you wanted to plug on the network?

“Dangerously will be commentating on all the shows he regularly does this coming weekend, since the shows were taped this past week, but this weekend's shows will be his final appearances with the company, at least until further notice. On the shows that Dangerously would have been on that air the weekend of 10/19, Ross will be announcing solo and there is no word of a new color commentator for the shows.”

What was it like working with Paul?

From the Observer

“Some interesting happenings at the television tapings 10/7 at Center Stage in Atlanta

before a nearly packed house for tapings that air 10/19 and 10/26 on WCW. On the first show, Sting beat Doug Somers, Tom Zenk worked (just one day after they showed the dressing room "injury" angle on television) a squash, Madusa debuted as a face and pinned Leilani Kai in a good match, Michael Hayes pinned Larry Zbyszko in a match where Hayes juiced hardway after being hit in the back of the head with one of the belts by Arn Anderson, Rick Steiner beat Jim Boss in what was said to have been an excellent squash (Boss works UWFI in Japan), Bobby Eaton & Big Josh & Mike Graham beat Terrence Taylor & Richard Morton & Thomas Rich via DQ. Rich pinned Graham after using a foreign object but Brian Pillman ran in and told the ref what happened and during the commotion, Eaton pinned Rich to get the three count. Then P.N. News had a TV title match with Steve Austin. Lady Blossom gave Austin a foreign object and he used it on News and got the pin. Austin gave the object back to Blossom who stuck it down her top. Dustin Rhodes ran in to tell the ref what happened but the ref didn't see the object so Madusa ran in and grabbed the object from down Blossom's top and showed the ref who reversed the decision and the finale saw Bill Kazmaeir beat Cactus Jack via DQ when Abdullah the Butcher interfered and Sting made the save.”

What do you think was too much in this scenario?

“It was announced during this show that Dusty Rhodes would be Ron Simmons' manager at Halloween Havoc and that Mr. Hughes would be barred from ringside. Between that and the angle on TV with Dustin Rhodes that aired this weekend and Dusty not doing regular interviews, it sure looks like some Race/Hughes/Luger vs. Dusty/Dustin/Barry Windham matches for later this year. If nothing else, at least Dusty knows how to do localized promos for his matches.

When Pillman came out, his arm was in a sling as last week he legit tore a muscle in his back and is expected back just in time for Havoc.

Word coming here is that Scott Steiner won't be working Havoc as advertised and he'll be replaced in the Chamber of Horrors match by Big Van Vader. Pretty much goes by who you believe and some are saying he'll work the match, others saying he'll get medical clearance to return in late November.”

Do you think Dusty appearing added anything?

“All that was announced regarding the Chamber of Horrors match as of television on 10/19 is that there will be an electrified cage with instruments of torture, and the only way to win is for all members of a team to escape from the cage within a prescribed time limit. When the time limit expires, the individuals left in the cage will have to face the as yet unannounced torture. If this doesn't sound like a Jim Herd idea, I don't know what does. By the way, I do know the torture that they'll have to face. Whomever gets left has their choice of getting electrocuted and guaranteed amnesia or gets the real torture-- locked in a room with four walls and one television monitor and gets forced to watch the

1991 Great American Bash from start-to-finish.”

Speaking of torture lets get into it…

Throughout the show they chanted “We Want Ric Flair…” how do you deal with that?

There’s talk of a program with Lex & Bill Kazmaeir…that couldn’t have been real right?

Paul E…has some issues…from the Observer:

“One of Dangerously's legal advisers, Bruce Gold, responded to WCW's official public version of the story with the statement: "WCW has announced it has suspended Paul E. Dangerously. The reason given for this was the existence of philosophical differences. Mr. Dangerously asserts categorically there are neither philosophical nor policy differences with management, employees or agents of WCW and that there are no valid grounds for which WCW can base its unwarranted allegations to break its contractual obligations with Mr. Dangerously. Mr. Dangerously is disturbed that for the second time that WCW is attempting to keep him from doing the job for which he is employed and he's presently conferring with counsel to determine the appropriate legal response. He is prepared to seek all possible remedies in response to this illegal suspension and damage to his professional reputation and the goodwill associated therewith.”

This is just typical Paul E is it not

“Jim Herd has the perfect right to replace Dangerously as an announcer if he was unhappy with his on-air performance, whether anyone else agrees with him or they disagree with him. That is what the position of authority in an entertainment business entails.’

Was Jim excited to take control and see what would happen or was it just old school and you’ll do as I say an see what happens if you don’t…

Lets get to the show because it’s extraordinary:

The Observer gives it 58.9% thumbs up..

“There are several changes, due to injuries, in upcoming major cards. The angle on the WCW Halloween Havoc pay-per-view on Sunday night where Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko smashed the car door on Barry Windham's hand was a cover story because on 10/22 in Columbus, GA, in a squash match, Windham landed wrong doing a bulldog headlock and broke his wrist in four places. The injury is serious enough that he isn't expected to return for six months to a year, but he was willing to let them slam a car door on his hand to use the legit injury as part of an angle when he returns. Ron Simmons, who worked Havoc's main event with a bad wrist as well, is expected to be out a few weeks as well and the last word I had is he wasn't expected back for the Clash on 11/19. Simmons was in a cast until just before the show and became something of a folk hero for toughness for working the match without any protection for his wrist nor did he take any pain-pills or shots to kill the pain. Ironically, late in the week that was some concern that Simmons wasn't even going to be able to work on Sunday (or perhaps wasn't going to be allowed, as there was concern about him doing the finish).”

Does it feel like you’re snake bit with all this?

“It's time to head off to Chattanooga for Halloween Havoc '91, which had the misfortune of going head-to-head with the biggest football game of the year on cable (Giants vs. Redskins on ESPN) and the seventh game of the World Series. While almost all expectations were that this would have a negative effect on the buy rate (WCW sources

said they would have been happy just to garner a 1.0 buy rate), they were able to pack the

building with 8,900 fans (the house was $45,000--so about half was paid and have was papered), which is no accomplishment to be taken lightly going against the seventh game of the most exciting World Series in years. From all accounts, it was a super live show. As a PPV event, it was something less than super.”

Because WCW why not

“1. In the Chamber of Horrors, Sting & El Gigante & Rick & Scott Steiner beat Cactus Jack & Abdullah the Butcher & Big Van Vader & Diamond Studd in 12:36. Abby, Cactus and Sting all juiced, with Cactus juicing heavy. The on-off lever of the electric chair kept falling into the on position. They wasted a lot of quality talent with this one. Anyway, the finish saw Steiner pull a reversal on Abby, get him in the chair and Cactus pulled the switch and we had an explosion. Abby was then supposed to do a stretcher job to sell the explosion, but of course didn't, and instead beat up the ghouls after the match. Now aren't you sorry that One Man Gang quit so he could be put in the chair, get amnesia and come back as a babyface Reverend? -**

Is this the worst first match in wrestling pay-per-view history ever?

“2. P.N. News & Big Josh beat The Creatures (Johnny Rich & Joey Maggs) in 5:13 when Josh gave Maggs and butt drop and News splashed him off the top rope. At least they didn't have them come up wearing humps. This match was a complete waste of valuable time, but the work itself was okay. *¼”

Nevermind - i stand corrected…

“3. Bobby Eaton pinned Terrence Taylor in 15:41 with the Alabama jam. Taylor came out dressed like he just got in from a wedding. The scariest move of the night was Eaton coming off the top rope outside the ring with a kneedrop onto the ramp on Taylor. Taylor did his side suplex into a power bomb on the ramp. There was a lot of high risk stuff and

the last few minutes were great. ***½”

Was this the best Terry Taylor match ever? But wait…there’s more…

“4. Johnny B. Badd pinned Jimmy Garvin in 8:25. You could tell these guys worked overtime putting this match together. Michael Hayes was in the corner with his arm in a sling, even though he wasn't hurt, but they needed to establish Garvin as the face here (since had Garvin come out by himself, Badd may have gotten more cheers) plus they wanted Hayes out of the Van Hammer match because he would have gotten an overwhelming amount of cheers and somebody somewhere is determined to shove Hammer down our throats (even though nobody will take credit for it). Badd showed a lot of improvement and took great bumps, although he also showed he was green in a lot of ways. Garvin was more inspired than usual. Badd broke his nose doing his sunset flip off the top rope (and what a great move that one is, huh?). Finish saw Garvin hit the DDT but Teddy Long distracted the ref who didn't count the pin. Garvin went after Long and Badd hit him with the left hook and got the pin. Hayes decked Long after the match. **¾”

Did this help anyone? How about the next match?

“5. Steve Austin went to a 15:00 draw with Dustin Rhodes to keep the TV title. A lot of good moves and countermoves. If there is anyone in the U.S. with the potential to be the next Ric Flair, as a total all-around performer, it's Austin because he's so advanced and has incredible presence and ability for two years in the business. Rhodes isn't too far behind him, either. They did a two-minute side headlock by Austin in the middle. Rhodes juiced at 8:30 after being pounded on outside the ring. Austin also came off the top rope with a double-sledge to the floor. Rhodes did a great spin bump off a clothesline. Austin juiced at 13:00. Rhodes should have gone for a few more near falls in the last 90 seconds but set it up for one hot move at the end before time ran out. ***¼”

Did you know JR?

“6. Bill Kazmaeir beat Oz in 3:58 with the torture rack. These guys could have had the worst match in the history of WCW PPV's, but the company didn't allot them enough time. It could have been much worse than it was, but that's still no reason for it being there in the first place. -1/2*”

Hard to disagree right?

7. Van Hammer pinned Doug Somers in 1:12 with a slingshot suplex. Hammer only missed three of the five moves he tried. -*

Who was high on Van Hammer still here?

“8. Brian Pillman pinned Richard Morton to become the first WCW light heavyweight champion. Pillman must not have recovered from his injuries (it was his first match back after missing a few weeks with a torn latissimus muscle). This match should have been a fast-paced high-flying signature match to establish the division similar to the great match Pillman had with Brad Armstrong at the Clash. But it wasn't at all, and was the biggest disappointment on the show. Pillman won with a flying body press off the top rope in 12:44. *”

Do you think there was room in the Light Heavyweight Division to be Cruiserweights?

Eventually we would see the Halloween Phantom appear as Rick Rude and destroy Tom Zenk. Why Tom?

Were you excited to have Rude in the fold?

“10. The Enforcers (Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko) kept the WCW tag team titles beating The Patriots (Chip the Firebreaker and Todd Champion) in 9:51 when Anderson pinned the Chipster with a spinebuster. The Patriots have a lot of negative charisma. Everyone tried, but Todd has this knack of never being in the right place at the right time. Enforcers were pretty much the faces here. *¼”

There was more for Arn & Larry then Chip & Todd wasn’t there?

“11. Lex Luger retained the WCW title winning two of three falls from Ron Simmons. First fall was slow, with Simmons winning in 4:52 with the spinebuster. Luger sold is back a lot during the second fall. The announcing in this match was great in getting the story across. Luger won the fall via DQ when it looked like they were going to take a double bump over the top rope but Harley Race held onto Simmons and Luger went over and they called for the DQ in 10:07. Third fall saw Luger bleed hardway under the eye. Simmons made a big comeback and went for the three point stance and tackle to Luger, who moved and Simmons hit the post. Luger then pinned him with a piledriver in 3:59. Can you believe that finish? A heel winning the main event on a PPV clean with his hold. In fact, there were no screw-job endings the entire card, and it was booked by Dusty Rhodes. This match was quite a strong argument point for two-of-three fall matches, because technically it was nothing special, but the three falls gave them a chance to do a storyline that made it a very good match. ***½”

Its hard to get into what you were doing if it wasn’t Ric at the time - fair to say wasn’t it?

Was that the biggest gap in everything?

Did you get what you needed out of the program - or was there a swing & miss?

Why was Lex tough to draw with - if he was? Just too soon?

Is Ric leaving the NWA different if Sting is healthy?