The Kurt Angle Show - Kurt vs. Brock [Show Notes] (Patreon)

We will be discussing “The Beast” Brock Lesnar - the man you had your most infamous match with - and while we discuss him we’ll be watching your iron man match with him that aired on Smackdown back in 2003!

Fire up your Peacock and watch along with us - search for SmackDown.

Season 5 - Episode 38

Fast forward to 37 minutes and 45 seconds…

We’ll count it down Kurt - 3-2-1!

Now the first time you & Brock are ever teased against each other is at the Vengeance pay-per-view in July of 02 - but you knew when Brock was signed to the company - that at some point you two were going to be on a big stage wrestling in front of a lot of people right?

Do you remember the first time you met Brock? Was it at a wrestling meet or something involving professional wrestling?

Were you excited about the prospect of wrestling him?

Your first match with him that we could find was on September 9th, 2002 in Mankato, Minnesota at a house show where he defeated you - what was your first experience with Brock?

What was it like putting a match together with a young Brock Lesnar? Did he let you do it - even though he was the champion?

How big and intense is he in person?

Your second match is a triple threat on December 16th, 2002 at a house show in Sarasota, Florida with Big Show included. How much had Brock evolvd in those few months?

We just covered in our No Way Out 2003 episode about your short match at MSG to fill in for Hunter and also the handicap match at the pay-per-view after Edge’s injury.

There was the same match 5 days later in South Africa - any memories of that trip?

Alright let’s discuss the Iron Man match real quick - knowing its a 2 hour show - and you got one legit hour of wrestling about to come - how much pressure is on you to deliver?

How different is it to put together an iron man match?

Obviously you & Brock have a lot of history at this point as earlier in the year after you injured your neck at No Way Out - there was a question if you & Brock were even going to wrestle at WrestleMania. There were backup plans including you dropping the WWE Title to Brock on SmackDown in your hometown…did you ever have any doubts you wouldn’t be able to do the match?

Go back in our archives and check out the first episode of the Kurt Angle Show where you discussed WrestleMania 19 and the match - of course the infamous finish with Brock landing on his head - but let’s discuss what happened after the match…

Brock is out of it - you’re literally with a broken freaking neck - do you two talk after the match?

Did you guys talk on the phone after? Were you guys checking on each other?

Did you two ever discuss the WrestleMania match or was it one of those things like - we got through it - survived it - and that you did it…

Your miracle return takes place just a few months later - and right away you’re teaming with Brock & Taker on a 3-day Texas swing in mid-June. What was it like being on the same side as Brock this time?

You would team with Brock & Mr. America - Hulk Hogan in a loss to Big Show and the former Team Angle - now the World’s Great Tag Team of Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin at MSG for SmackDown…you, Brock & Hulk together…that’s a hell of a team there isn’t it?

Coming out of Mania - were you hoping you’d get at least one more singles match with Brock on a big scale considering how beat up you were going into it?

Back to the match - the psychology of putting this altogether - do you remember the agent who was with you?

Did you watch any of the previous iron man matches to get a feel for them - or did you two just know what to do?

Besides this match - what’s your favorite iron man match of all-time?

On a mid-July 2003 tour of Asia Brock would defeat you & Big Show in triple threat matches in Bangkok, Thailand and Yokohama, Japan…any memories of these matches or trips?

You would regain the WWE title over Brock & Big Show at Vengeance 2003 which you can check out in the archives. Did you think this would lead to you having one more big program with Brock?

Were you surprised they had you pin Brock to win the title instead of Big Show?

You’d work Brock on house shows in Calgary & Edmonton in early August to start to get ready for SummerSlam 03 from Phoenix.

Coming off your neck injury and Brock’s usual suplex based offense - did you guys decide anything was off limits? Germans or anything like that?

Was Brock worried about hurting you?

You’d get your main event match again against Brock at SummerSlam - but it’s not at the top of the card. The Elimination Chamber match for the Raw title with Hunter, Goldberg, Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton & Kevin Nash was in the main event. Was that a disappointment for you guys?

Here’s the Observer review of that match:

“Kurt Angle retained the WWE title, over Brock Lesnar in 21:19. Lesnar dominated early, including pressing Angle overhead and dumping him over the top rope. He did an overhead belly-to-belly and even a Luchador quebradora (spinning backbreaker). Lesnar did a high fisherman like leg hook ending in a Samoan drop. Lesnar potatoed Angle with a kick to the mouth. Angle was bleeding from the mouth after that one. Finally, Lesnar missed a shoulderblock and went into the post. Angle hit three german suplexes. Lesnar came back with another overhead belly-to-belly. He set up the F-5, but Angle was supposed to turn it into a DDT. As it was, this spot was botched badly. Luckily, they went right back and did it again so we all found out what they missed. Angle went for the ankle lock, but Lesnar escaped and Angle crashed into ref Mike Chioda. Angle did a reverse triangle from Lesnar’s back. Angle changed it into an ankle lock, but it was a rope break. However, there was no ref to call for a break. Lesnar finally tapped but no ref. Vince came out and made the save with a chair shot to the back. Lesnar, selling the ankle, did a one-legged F-5, which was cool. Angle kicked out. He tried for another, but Angle turned it into the ankle lock. Lesnar kept making the ropes, but for some reason the ref never called for a break. He made the ropes three times, but no break, and finally tapped out. After the match, Angle gave Vince an Angle slam on a chair. A hell of a match. ****¼”

Are you guys happy with that match?

Do you remember the missed spot?

Does it make up for WrestleMania?

This will eventually lead to the match we’re watching right now…

The build to this is one of those great builds - do you think this should’ve been a pay-per-view match instead of on SmackDown?

On Smackdown 8/28/03 from El Paso:

Brock Lesnar gave one of the best promos of his career as he cried about losing to Angle. Angle interrupted on the big screen and said he’d make him tap again. Undertaker came out and confronted Brock and said he wants a title shot before Brock gets a rematch. Big Show came out and said the same. Angle then came out. Stephanie came out and announced a three-way match later to determine the no. 1 contender…

Undertaker beat Big Show and Brock Lesnar in 18:00 when he pinned Brock after a Last Ride (Kurt on commentary for the match)

Brock isn’t very well known for his promo skills but this was a hell of a promo…do you think he gets a bad rap for his verbal skills?

The next week…

From Smackdown 9/4/03 from New Orleans:

Kurt Angle fought Undertaker to a no decision at 19:35 after Brock attacked both. (***1/4)]... Angle was shown backstage with an icepack on his nose and back...

Did Taker bust you up or did Brock do you remember?

Vince McMahon announced in mid-ring that Angle would face Brock in a 60 minute match on the Sept. 18 Smackdown. They showed Brock on the big screen torturing a tied-up Zach Gowen to prove to Vince had a killer attitude. He shoved Zach down a flight of stairs…

This was one of those moments that made Brock look like a killer - but what do you remember of the one legged Zach Gowen?

When is the idea brought up to you to have the iron man match?

Were you or Brock nervous about it?

On Smackdown 9/11/03 from Birmingham, AL:

Backstage, Vince asked Sable if Gowen, who got hurt last week by Brock. Stephanie interrupted. She ranted. Vince made her wrestle Brock in the main event later or give up her G.M. job….

Vince introduced Brock. Steph then came out to accept the challenge. Brock threw her around ringside. She kicked Brock and Vince in their crotches and escaped. Brock brought her back to the ring. Angle made the save.

Look at you saving Stephanie as always Kurt…

Were you surprised to see Sable back in the WWE at the time?

Is this when you think Brock & Sable started - getting friendly?

-The weekend before the Iron Man match, Angle and Lesnar do a longer house show match - a 32-minute win for Angle in Roanoke, VA on September 13. Any memories of that match?

Then the next night in Richmond:

Lesnar blew out his knee while wrestling a tune-up match in Richmond on 9/14, and the next night in Greenville, NC, he and Angle only did about a 1:00 match, with much interference, to protect him. The exact nature of the injury hasn’t been determined. The first diagnosis was floating cartilage in the knee, which caused it to lock, but there was some fear by the next night that it was a torn ACL.

What do you remember of this injury and the match? How much pressure is now on you to carry this considering it’s 60 minutes.

Kurt - you had to deal with a very big loss going into the Iron Man match with your sister passing away. How tough was this on you, your family, your focus?

What can you tell us about your sister?

***Recap of the Iron Man match from the Observer****

Lesnar went ahead five falls to two, leaving Angle with about 15 minutes to play catch-up before 6,000 fans at the RBC Center. Angle ended up being down by one fall with less than 5:00 left, and hit near fall after near fall, before finally locking on a heel hook with 30 seconds left. Lesnar survived the move until the bell rang, making him the new champion. The title switch was done with Lesnar working as a heel, but it was done without any outside interference in any of the falls. After the match was over, an emotional Angle left to a huge ovation and told the fans that if it wasn’t for them, he’d have never made it back from his latest broken neck.

The match was different than many would have anticipated. There was little in the way of mat wrestling, and far less submission usage than one would expect of a match that went a legitimate 60:00 to the second live. It was mostly standing wrestling and moves like suplexes and clotheslines. Lesnar did a lot of stalling early, and late in the match, did spots where he was trying to run out the clock. It appeared that Angle was never tired at any point, while Lesnar did at least appear to tire a few times. Both used everything in their regular repertoires, with Angle also adding a Randy Savage double sledge off the top rope outside the ring; a missile dropkick and, for the first time in a long time, a missed moonsault.

The live crowd was into the match far more than Hart-Michaels. There was something of a lull from about the 30 minute mark until close to 45 minutes, but it was more than made up for by the strong finish.

The first fall ended at the 8:30 mark when Lesnar was disqualified for a chair shot that laid Angle out. Lesnar came back and got two quick falls, one with an F-5 at about 11:00 and a second when Angle returned the favor from SummerSlam, tapping to an ankle lock at 12:00. Lesnar went up 3-1 at the 20:00 mark with an F-5 on the floor and Angle was counted out. Lesnar continued to dominate Angle for several minutes until Angle hit an Angle slam out of nowhere to score a pin at 26:00. In a spot to garner controversy, Lesnar clotheslined ref Brian Hebner, who was laid out for several minutes. Angle had Lesnar beat while this was going on. However, with the ref down, Lesnar laid Angle out with a belt shot and got the pin when Hebner recovered at 31:00. Lesnar went up 5-2 at 44:40 with a superplex while standing on the top rope. Angle’s comeback saw them tease Lesnar on the top for a shooting star (which he never did during the match), but Angle ran up the ropes and gave him a belly-to-belly superplex at 50:00. Angle started working on the ankle and got Lesnar to tap to the ankle lock at 55:10. The last nearly 5:00 saw Angle dominate. It was a combination of Angle getting near falls and Lesnar attempting to stall out the clock. Angle finally gave Lesnar an F-5, throwing his knee into the ringpost, playing on the spot done by Lesnar in December to set up Angle’s needing arthroscopic knee surgery. This spot, plus setting up the leg submission, can be used as storyline in case Lesnar may have to take some time off. The match ended with Angle hitting seven german suplexes before putting on a heel hook, which was the move he beat Chris Benoit with at the Royal Rumble in what was generally considered the company’s best match before this one of the year. Lesnar survived the final 30 seconds to win 5-4.”

Kurt - when it’s all over - is it a success?

Was Vince happy with it?

Were you two happy with it?

Where does this rank your in your favorite matches?

This would be one of the last matches you had with Brock - as later on that year in Stockton, California you would team with Eddie & Hardcore Holly to defeat Brock, Big Show & A-Train at a house show.

Do you think you guys could’ve done more later on in your careers if you were ever in the same place at the same time?

Your final match together - Tokyo, Japan - June 29, 2007:

“Kurt Angle became both the TNA and IWGP heavyweight champion, scoring a rare major championship double, sort of. The IWGP championship that Angle won on 6/29, in beating Brock Lesnar in Lesnar's first pro wrestling match in more than one year, was not the New Japan version, but it was the same physical belt that listed every champion dating back to Hulk Hogan in 1983. Of course, from an official standpoint, Lesnar was stripped of the IWGP title on May 17, 2006, when he failed to show up, due to a money dispute (he was getting his pay cut) for the match where he was going to be asked to lose his title to Hiroshi Tanahashi on a show in Sapporo. Lesnar never returned the title belt.”

Kurt - what was your relationship like with Brock at the time? Did Inoki come to you and say we need you to beat Brock to get off the title off him?

“The Lesnar vs. Angle match for the IWGP title was announced several weeks ago in Japan, but nobody took it seriously. Lesnar had said he was retired, and after his MMA debut on 6/2 at the Los Angeles Coliseum, acted as if he wasn't doing the match. However, Antonio Inoki did produce a contract signed by Lesnar for the match and showed it to the Japanese press. The debut of the new Inoki Genome Federation at Tokyo Sumo Hall was the routine Inoki mess of mixing MMA fighters and pro wrestlers. While Angle vs. Lesnar was announced a few weeks back, nobody took it seriously until a few days before the show when Lesnar arrived in Tokyo, holding the old physical IWGP title belt.”

How much was this an issue for you at the time - considering you were in talks with New Japan this kind of blew up the deal didn’t it?

Was it important to put Brock in the ring with you since he trusted you?

“Lesnar agreed to put Angle over, which was one of the reasons Angle was willing to leave New Japan, where he was in line for a big push, and do this show. Lesnar felt that fans knew the difference between pro wrestling and MMA, so there is no real harm in losing the match, plus he was offered a "great" payday. Angle also played a major part in convincing Lesnar to lose his first pro wrestling match since 2004, when he left WWE, as he had never lost in Japan. Angle told him they could do the match this way, and then in the post-match, build for an MMA match in Japan, which could be a huge payday for both of them.”

Was that the plan? To do Brock vs. you in an Octagon?

The match started with Angle hitting a suplex, but they brawled outside and inside the ring. Lesnar pounded Angle in the corner and tried the Verdict (his old F-5), but Angle escaped. Lesnar did a few suplexes and put on a guillotine. Angle came back and tried the Olympic slam, but Lesnar kept punching. They traded elbows. Angle reversed a powerslam into an ankle lock, but Lesnar escaped. Angle hit two German suplexes, but Lesnar escaped from the attempt at another Olympic slam. As Lesnar tried to do the Verdict, Angle reversed it into a DDT. Angle went for the ankle lock, but Lesnar escaped again. Lesnar hit a German suplex, but Angle came back with an Olympic slam and once again put on the ankle lock. Lesnar turned the move into a pinning combination for a near fall. Lesnar then finally hit the Verdict and then went for an ankle lock on Angle. Angle sold like he was about to tap, but reversed into an ankle lock of his own and Lesnar finally tapped. The live reports we got were that fans in the building were raving about the match, and newspaper reports called it an excellent match.

Officially, Lesnar tapped in 10:36 to the ankle lock. Lesnar then handed the IWGP title belt, which was advertised as being at stake, to Angle. There have been threats that New Japan would file suit since the name IWGP heavyweight title would be its intellectual property and they have a current champion in Yuji Nagata. Ironically, before Inoki lured Angle away, New Japan was building up to a Nagata vs. Angle program.”

How different was it for you two in front of that type of audience in Japan?

How many times did you run into Brock or hang out with him until he returned to the WWE in 2012?

You weren’t surprised to see him return were you?

The way Brock was presented when he came back - a monster MMA fighter - was the way he should’ve originally been portrayed right?

Is Brock your favorite opponent?

What are some of your favorite Brock stories?

What did you think of Brock ending the Undertaker’s streak?