Foley is Pod - UWF & Herb Abrams [Show Notes] (Patreon)

We’re going to discuss one of the craziest characters in the history of professional wrestling…Herb Abrams and the times you worked for him in the UWF.

You’re coming out of WCW as we talked about earlier in the archives in 1990 and you would write this in your book…

“I met a man named Herb Abrams at a wrestling convention in New York. It was there that Herb held a press conference and announced the formation of his new Universal Wrestling Federation, or UWF. In addition, he announced Cactus Jack as a signee with the company, which was a handshake deal that we had just agreed to.”

Was this really the first time you met him?

What was your first impression of him?

Were you looking to hook up with another big company after you left WCW?

From your book:

“Herb really felt that his new group would instantly join the big two and felt confident that in time, it would become number one. When someone at the conference asked how he could feel so sure without having a background in wrestling, Herb replied, “What they’re looking for, I have, and that’s the Hollywood glitz.”

Herb also announced Bruno Sammartino as his color commentator and himself as play-by-play man, an idea that would prove to be entertaining, if not exactly wise.

Was this just a project to make Herb a star - like he thought he was - in his own mind?

How the hell do you think he convinced Bruno Sammartino to be a part of this?

From your book:

“To know Herb Abrams was to like him, or at least be amused by him, as he was a true cartoon character. About five-foot-four-ish, with a small frame, Herb realized that he would never make it in the wrestling business he loved so much, unless he bought his own company. I don’t know where he got his money, but man, did he spend it, as he brought in a crew of guys that actually had more talent than the rosters of either of the big two.”

Did you ever figure out where he got his money?

This talent roster is something…besides you and Bruno you got Paul Orndorff, Steve Williams, Don Muraco, Bob Orton, Jimmy Snuka, Sid Vicious and even Andre the Giant.

It’s hard not to think this can be a serious deal with this type of talent right?

A lot of what is going on with Herb is in conjunction with the John Arezzi fan convention - do you have any memories of Arezzi’s conventions - probably the first of it’s kind?

Somehow - Herb gets a TV deal with Sports Channel. This would never happen today - how different was TV back then?

The promotion barely exists at the point when he announces it - let alone have a demo tape. Is this just the epitome of Herb?

Well the press conference takes place and here’s the recap from the Observer:

“The Universal Wrestling Federation, headed up by Herb Abrams of Los Angeles, held a press conference on Sunday in conjunction with John Arezzi's wrestling convention. The press conference included an angle shot with Brian Blair and Danny Spivey where Spivey threw a pitcher of water in Blair's face, threw a table on him and ran his head into the wall while Abrams (who will do his own television announcing with Bruno Sammartino doing the color) did a third-rate Gene Okerlund mock surprise act.”

Are you at this press conference?

Well the first show - scheduled to take place in Anaheim - doesn’t get off to a great start. From the Observer:

“Herb Abrams' UWF, was scheduled to begin this past Thursday night in Anaheim. But the show never took place. There have been many different stories about what happened, but apparently there was either a problem with taping the card for television as far as the owner of the Anaheim Celebrity Theater was concerned, or that the owner simply didn't want a wrestling show in the building after the building manager had booked the show.

Both Abrams and Bruno Sammartino backstage were blaming the problems on Vince McMahon, and while that isn't impossible to believe, it does seem unlikely. At first we heard the show was to be rescheduled for the next night, but no show took place. We've heard no definite word on a new opening date for the group although both Sept. 20 or Sept. 25 in Reseda, CA have been mentioned. “

You’re there, Bruno Sammartino is there, Nikita Koloff, Lou Albano…what is it like backstage? Are you surprised the show doesn’t happen?

Well - it’s hard to be a serious deal when Herb is presented as the star. The production that was promised wasn’t there was it?

Herb originally promoted Hollywood Glitz - but you’re working in nightclubs are you not?

Abrams claimed that the show had an advance of 1,000 tickets but - supposedly only between 30 and 100 fans showed up. Did you take anything serious Herb was saying?

Did you get paid for this?

It would take until the end of September in front of 425 fans in Reseda for the 21 match taping to take place.

It’s reported that B. Brian Blair was the booker - what did you think of Blair as a booker?

Most of all the matches ended in a double count out, double DQ, with very little pinfall victories. Is that just a sign of not knowing how to book?

What this taping is most known for is…well I’ll let Meltzer describe it:

“Anyway, the "story" of the night was using a jobber under the ring name “Davey Meltzer” which was supposed to be Abrams’ knock at me.

"Meltzer" did a job for Williams, who shoved a piece of paper down his throat and poured a bottle of dirt on him, then Manson, and then had him do a job for The Black Knight (Billy Anderson), who had already been established as a jobber himself earlier in the show.

For those interested in the background of this, apparently on the day of the show Abrams had this idea and called Anderson, who supplied the jobbers, to get his smallest, dumpiest looking guy and call him “Davey Meltzer”.

The guy who played the role was Adam Michaels, who was in his first pro match and was adamantly against doing it but was told to shut up and take the money. Both Abrams and Bruno Sammartino were said to have gotten a big kick out of the finish with Williams by those backstage.”

What did you think of this?

Did you have a relationship with Dave at this time?

Here’s a recap of your match with David Sammartino…

“When they present the match on TV, it is with overdubbed almost crowd chatter throughout, and the ring audio is barely heard so you can’t even hear the bumps in the ring. This is to hide the fans cheering for you, the heel and booing the babyface Sammartino it appears.

As the match starts, they show a video-in-video of Cactus:

“I would rather hurt a man, than love a woman. But today David Sammartino in front of a national TV audience, I’m gonna have to settle for hurting you!”

Later as the match gets going, you send both you and David outside with a clothesline, as Bruno yells

“This maniac!! He landed harder than David did!!”

But after around 14 minutes, you’re sick of the ref telling you to stop beating on David in the corner, and just headbutt the ref for the DQ.”

You would work with David Sammartino - what memories of this match do you have?

Was it an honor to have Bruno do commentary for you & his son?

The next week you’d get your hands on Davey Meltzer…

“You start off the match, biting at Meltzer’s face as Bruno speculates you maybe eat too early in the day and are coming hungry into the ring.

After a few minutes you get the win after you hit your trademark elbow drop from the apron, and throw Meltzer back in for the pin.”

This is just some silly shit isn’t it?

The next taping you get David again and this time in a No DQ match…

“The crowd immediately goes crazy for you as you attack David before the bell, and choke him with your ring jacket.

Later, David kicked you in the “butt area” as described by Abrams on commentary.

You hit a low blow on David, while a disgusted Bruno tries to say you should be DQ’d for that (in a No DQ match)

Later you smash him with a trash can, and get the win after hitting him with a foreign object that you had taken out of your boot plus having your feet on the ropes for leverage during the pin.

Bruno and Herb are appalled at this behaviour, saying the ref didn’t see it, but forgetting it doesn’t matter as it was No DQ.”

You wrote in your book that you were over as a babyface even though you were a heel - do you account that to the music “Welcome to the Jungle” - the booking - what was it do you think?

You also defeated “Chief Jay Strongbow” (Don Giovanni) using the foreign object again at this taping for the show aired November 5.

They try to make out that this is THE Chief Jay Strongbow and not some ripoff, and by now they’re not sweetening the crowd noise anymore and you can hear the loud “Cactus, Cactus!” chants from the crowd that Herb has to acknowledge on commentary, while Bruno doesn’t understand as all “rule breakers” shouldn’t be liked by the fans.

What did you think of the fake Chief Jay?

You get an Indian Strap match set up against you & Chief Jay but the match never happens and you end up doing a tag match teaming with “Wildman” Jack Armstrong against Strongbow & Sammartino. This happened a lot with the UWF didn’t it?

Your last taping of 1990 features Don Muraco debuting to take you on…

“You lose via count-out to Don Muraco, but the match is a bit of a stinker as Muraco isn’t the Muraco of old anymore, and is much slower in the ring.

The crowd even chants “boring” and you do your best to get them back into it by taking some crazy bumps such as a tombstone on the floor. (although it doesn’t look as good as the move sounds)”

Any memories of working with the Rock?

In January 1991, the tapings moved to the Penta Hotel in NYC. Was this a surprise to see this moved to the East Coast?

Taped on January 9 for the show airing January 21, you defeated Mike Williams via count-out following the elbow from the apron. The crowd is so hot for you, you easily get the biggest reaction at the first NY taping. Was that because of the market do you think?

You also wrestle Sandy Beach in West Islip but there are shows canceled in Queens for the same loop. Was the UWF a ticking time bomb to you?

From the Observer:

“Many of Abrams' checks for the New York City tour bounced. Abrams has made good in cash, as of Sunday, for most, but not all of the money stemming from the bad checks. Abrams is all tied up in legal problems with Vince McMahon as well and spending much of his money fighting legal fights which may be why money is so tight right now. Plus, there still is no real source of income coming in. The check to the Royce Hotel also bounced, so the 2/8 show there is off, although Abrams was going to cancel anyway. John Arezzi, who helped promote the shows on the last tour, was offered the chance to stay on, but only on a commission rather than salary deal and declined, so he won't be promoting the shows.”

Do you remember your checks bouncing and you needing cash?

At the end of February Herb runs a four-hour TV taping at the Penta Hotel in New York before 500 fans. There’s less talent here which is probably because of the bounced checks… did you have any hesitation on working for him?

You end up getting managed by John Tolos - before he would go to the WWF to manage Mr. Perfect. What did you think of your pairing with Tolos?

You would get another match on that show with Don Muraco that was a brawl all over the building and Meltzer would say it was a great brawl. Did it take Muraco some time to get used to you?

From the Observer:

“UWF drew 400 for the Penta Hotel show on 3/10. Told it was a very hardcore and unruly crowd in that there were frequent chants of "UWF Sux" and the like. Told that with the exception of Cactus Jack, the card itself was pretty bad, which is what people have said in the past. Fans apparently got more and more upset with every screw-job finish, which took place in every match with name stars.”

Were you getting anything out of working for the UWF at this point?

This is your first chance to work with Paul Orndorff on the show wasn’t it?

You would team with Bob Orton and have a double DQ against Sandy Beach & Steve Ray and then you & Terry Gordy would attack Paul Orndorff in a cage match. Lots of DQs all over the show as well…was this a booking mentality do you think?

Well it was only a matter of time before it all went to shit to Mick. Herb has a TV taping the same day as a Joel Goodhart show…which yourself, Orndorff & Bam Bam Bigelow were booked on.

The story is you all told him you’d work the show but you’d have to leave early to get to Philadelphia - is that how you remember it?

From the Observer:

“The biggest story actually occurred before the show. Apparently Cactus Jack, Paul Orndorff and Bam Bam Bigelow all had informed Abrams before the show that they were already booked that night for Joel Goodhart in Philadelphia and Abrams said he was starting the show at 7 p.m. and would put them on early so they could make their Philly date. The show didn't start until nearly 8 and Orndorff and Jack both left and had words with Abrams and right now their future with UWF is in some doubt.

One of the semi finals of the UWF TV Title Tournament was supposed to be Bigelow vs. Cactus but Cactus was en route to Philly and they announced Cactus no-showed and gave it to Bigelow on a forfeit.”

What do you remember of all this? Did you think you were done with the company?

Well you weren’t as you take part of what the Observer called…the least successful pay-per-view show in pro wrestling history…

UWF Beach Brawl PPV - June 9th, 1991

Manatee Civic Center, Palmetto, Florida:

“8. Wet n' Wild (Steve Ray & Sonny Beach) beat Cactus Jack & Bob Orton with manager John Tolos (who showed up) in a cage above the ring. Match went 4:00. Tolos threw a gimmick down from his cage to Orton, who accidentally punched Jack, who was then pinned. The two argued, but then made up, but when Jack turned his back on Orton, he was jumped and the two brawled to the back with Jack juicing heavily. *¾”

Why bleed here do you think?

Did you think this was going to be successful?

The main event featured Steve Williams defeating Bam Bam to become the first UWF champion. Was Dr. Death excited about this?

Next up…was Blackjack Brawl at the MGM Hotel & Casino…

How the hell do you think Herb landed this deal?

200 fans show up in the 22,000 building…and you wrote this:

“I think that it was at the MGM show that Herb’s announcing skills really came to the forefront. He had invited me to his suite at the hotel to show me a “big surprise.” Herb had an incredible six-room penthouse suite that offered an unbelievable view of Las Vegas. When I got there, Herb had a bandage pressed to his lip, from a wound that he had suffered while wrestling with his buddies in the suite. His surprise-a new UWF championship belt, and a pair of yellow and green ostrich-skin boots that he swore the fans were “going to go nuts over.” Well, maybe the fans didn’t go nuts, but the wrestlers certainly did, as Mr. Electricity strutted out to the ring with the belt and the ostrich boots. There may have been only a few hundred people in the cavernous arena, but they were Herbie’s people, baby, and he was giving them what they came to see.

His announcing that night was truly memorable, as in addition to the fat lip, he was downing cocktails throughout the show and was totally hammered by the time he interviewed Little Tokyo, who had just won the prestigious Midget’s World Title. “Congratulations, Little Tokyo,” Herb slurred, “maybe you have some sake tonight to celebrate.”

Little Tokyo’s eyes grew wide and he replied in astonishment, “How do you know sake?” to which Herb offhandedly said with a shrug, “Oh, I was married to a Jap once.”

My goodness Mick…the highlight though is your match with Jimmy Snuka in a lumberjack match is that right?

From your book:

“There were a few problems with the match, however, as no one ever assigned any lumberjacks to the match, and we had no idea what Herb wanted out of it. As a result, I began asking wrestlers to be lumberjacks, an invitation that many declined, and as a result had a threatening group of lumberjacks consisting of two male wrestlers, two women, two midgets, and three security guards as we got set to go out. Thankfully, Jack Mulligan took control of the situation, and made wrestlers go out to the ring and help us.

The end of the match posed a problem, as Herb didn’t want me to lose, and there was no way I was going to let Jimmy lie down for me. As a result, we did the exact thing that lumberjack matches are supposed to prevent-we fought to a double count-out. The lumberjacks were baffled as we fought outside the ring and into the empty stands. “What are you guys doing,” B. Brian Blair yelled to us as he gave chase into the twenty-seventh row.

“It’s a double count-out,” I yelled as the Fly and I continued to trade punches.

“But you can’t do that in a lumberjack match,” Blair said, laughing in disbelief.

“Hey, it’s Herb’s show,” I said right back, “we can do anything.”

Is this your lasting memory of Herb and your time in the UWF?

Was this your last time working for the UWF?

Was this your last time seeing Herb in person?

Do you have a favorite Herb story?

Do you regret your time in the UWF?

You wrote this in your book:

“A while later, I read of Herb’s passing in a wrestling newsletter. I called over Colette, who had gotten to know Herb pretty well, and began reading the article, but couldn’t get through it without laughing in spite of myself. Like his life, Herb Abrams’s death had been way over the top. Apparently someone had alerted the police to a disturbance in a high-rise office in Manhattan, and when they got there, they found women screaming in the hallway, and little Herb running around naked, bathed in baby oil, and swinging a baseball bat, with which he was destroying furniture. He was taken into custody and died shortly after from a massive heart attack.

Colette and I sat down and mourned Herb’s death by sharing stories of his life and laughing at what a character he had been. I think Herb would have liked it that way.”

Were you surprised you were reached out to by Vice regarding the Dark Side of the Ring episode about Herb?

Did you enjoy the episode?

Do you think he faked his death like Vice floated?