Grilling JR - Kevin Nash [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Our subject today - “Big Daddy Cool” Diesel - Kevin Nash - Oz - whatever you want to call him!

Kevin has had an interesting career in professional wrestling - being a college athlete for basketball at the University of Tennessee. Jim - at the time you were heavily involved in sports - did you ever hear of him at Tennessee?

He would go on to Europe and play for a few years before blowing out his knee which would end his basketball career prematurely - and returning to the United States he would enlist in the Army and bounce from job to job before becoming a bouncer at “The Cheetah” strip club in Atlanta. Jim - any fun stories of the Cheetah from your Atlanta days?

Nowadays guys are discovered in college via NIL deals like the WWE has set up or they go to a training facility like the Nightmare Factory to be found and discovered - Kevin? He met the Steiner Brothers at a gym…is that just a sign of the evolution of business?

When do you first hear of this big monster getting into the business?

He begins to train at the Power Plant in 1990 at 30 years old. It’s tough starting in this business at such a late age is it not?

Nash debuted in WCW as one half of the Master Blasters as “Steel” along with his partner “Iron” with Nash sporting an orange mohawk. This…this is not WCW’s finest attempt to get someone over is it?

The Master Blasters defeated Brad Armstrong & Tim Horner at the Clash of Champions on September 5, 1990 and after a couple of weeks, Nash’s original partner “Iron” is replaced by “Blade” and the team lasts until early 1991 when Nash’s partner leaves again, so Nash is now just “The Master Blaster” for a few months. Who all saw the potential?

Was there potential?

Between all the management changes - it’s crazy to think how much possible top tier talent WCW ran out of the business - why do you think Kevin was different?

Later in 1991, Nash was repackaged as Oz with silver hair and obviously a spin off from The Wizard of Oz, this was all about the entrance and that was it.

When you first hear the idea of Oz - first off who’s was it?

What did you think of the gimmick itself?

Did you ever speak to Kevin around this time - did you feel or see his frustration?

Oz debuted at the first SuperBrawl PPV on May 19, 1991 in St. Petersburg and defeated Tim Parker.

Oz was given a little push the first couple of months until apparently, the rumor and innuendo is all plans for Oz were immediately scrapped when Nash refused to sign a $300 a night guarantee, as WCW was cutting costs.

What do you remember of that?

I mean…a push for this gimmick is some victories - but this isn’t a winning or money drawing gimmick right?

Oz somehow lasted until December 1991, although was barely used on WCW TV the last few months of the year, just house shows.

Good for Kevin to be on the road - but my goodness - this is just a mercy killing when this gimmick is over is it not?

The next gimmick for Nash is Vinnie Vegas starting in 1992, where he is paired up with originally in Harley Race’s stable, mostly teaming with Mr. Hughes.

Vegas is billed as a “wisecracking pseudo-mobster” based on Steve Martin's character in the 1990 film ‘My Blue Heaven’.

This is a step in the right direction for Kevin is it not?

Closer to his own personality - which always helps right?

Once Lex leaves WCW the stable breaks up - and Kevin is right into another stable - the Diamond Mine with DDP and the Diamond Studd.

When you look back at this group - DDP, Kevin Nash & Scott Hall - you have to go - how did WCW mess this up right?

Not long after the Diamond Studd leaves for the WWF to become Razor Ramon and Kevin & Dallas would team up as the Vegas Connection. Did you see anything in them as a tag team?

Dallas is eventually fired by Bill Watts and Vinnie Vegas would start teaming with Big Sky. Not exactly the moving up the card a big man with talent should be doing right?

The WWF at the time was known as the land of the big men - do you think Kevin would’ve been better off going to the WWF directly or did he need the time and the ability to work in WCW to get where he needed to be at eventually?

When you leave WCW - did you expect to see Kevin Nash appear in the World Wrestling Federation at any point?

Nash would debut as Shawn Michaels’ bodyguard - not yet to be named - to help Michaels win the Intercontinental title from Marty Jannetty at a house show.

The pairing of the eventual named Diesel and Shawn Michaels - it’s the perfect pairing for Kevin to be a part of and to learn from don’t you think?

When’s the first time you see Kevin together - King of the Ring 1993 is that right?

Did you see a difference in Kevin in the WWF?

Was this one of those things where you know Vince had to be thinking - this is a future champion?

I mean the learning experience alone - being at ringside for Shawn Michaels’ matches - being involved in the putting together of these matches - what an opportunity for him to learn from one of the best is it not?

Kevin would be a voiceless bodyguard for Shawn - and would occasionally get in the ring but would work more in the ring when Shawn is suspended for a failed drug test.

Was Kevin ready at the time to be on the stage of the World Wrestling Federation by himself?

When do you remember seeing the Kliq - 1-2-3 Kid, Shawn, Razor & Diesel together for the first time?

Do you think it was such an issue like it’s been made out to be over time?

We see the first real push for Diesel in the 1994 Royal Rumble match as he is dominant and eliminates 7 other superstars in the match. This has become something of a tradition since - actually some people call it the - Diesel spot - but this the reaction Diesel gets - it’s a strong one for the role. Were you happy to see Kevin in this spot?

You’re not in the WWF for most of 94 when Diesel would become Intercontinental Champion - but you had to know he was destined for more right?

Did you see the evolution of Kevin - from backstage - to in front of the camera?

By the time of your return to the WWF he’s still IC champion and Shawn is now at ringside for him. Did you see him as a future World Champion?

Then Shawn & Diesel won the tag titles from the Headshrinkers the night before SummerSlam 94 but at SummerSlam, Diesel lost the IC strap back to Razor thanks to a miscommunication with Michaels when he hit the superkick on him by mistake. It was time to get these two broken up don’t you think?

Diesel then turned babyface at the 1994 Survivor Series, when Shawn again accidentally hit the superkick on Diesel, and they vacated the tag titles. Jim - are you in the WWF at this point?

Just 3 days later on November 26, 1994, Diesel defeated new WWF Champion Bob Backlund in just 8 seconds at Madison Square Garden to become champion and start his year long title reign. What was your reaction when you heard about this?

Now Bruce Prichard has stated on his podcast how he disagreed with how the company began to present Diesel now, and also his opinion and how you thought Diesel should be positioned.

Right away the transition from Diesel - the bodyguard - turns into Kevin Nash portraying Diesel and that he’s a real person as opposed to a cartoon character.

Bruce Prichard on his podcast:

"Well, I don't think it was necessarily working, and it goes back to day one of 'okay, here's Diesel and he's your champion, and we want him to be this big babyface, so he is going to lead everybody in prayer and then, let's sing ‘We wish you a Merry Christmas’

And he seized being Diesel, it became, 'Well, Diesel is Kevin Nash. He was at East Tennessee playing Basketball, and what a quarter he had that one time when he scored four points.'

All of sudden, everything I loved about Diesel went away because he became Kevin Nash from East Tennessee University and a Basketball player."

What do you think of this from Bruce?

"Everything that was cool about him went away because somebody felt, 'God damn, we've got to  have credentials. You've got to have a real story about these guys; he could have been a two-and-a-half-time All-American.'

Nobody gives a shit.

They thought Diesel was cool; he kicked people's asses. When he ceased to become Diesel, the audience weren't intrigued by Kevin Nash at this point in time."

Was it a mistake looking back?

“I remember begging almost not to do that

God damn sit-down interview they did way back.

‘Tell me about your college career?

Tell me about Kevin?’

We killed him right there.

In that moment, we killed what we had spent all that time building. That’s the 100% truth.

Do you think it was dead?

Jim Ross was pushing that in order to have a champion that people would believe in, you had to give them real things to believe in. They had to know the real story. But yet not one time would you sit there and take Hulk Hogan and go, ‘Tell me, Terry. When you were in the band, you played bass, right?’ Who would bring that up and why? Why do you want to? Diesel was a character.

Kevin Nash was a person. The audience was in love with the character. They didn’t know the person.

You keep the person mysterious and a mystique. When he becomes just like your buddy that went to college and played a year on the team, what’s special about him anymore?

You don’t want people to relate to your top megastar.”

Do you remember Bruce speaking up against this? Do you remember discussing this with Kevin? Did he not appreciate or agree with this?

Kevin’s first pay-per-view as champion is the 95 Rumble where he’s taking on Bret. A babyface vs. babyface match that ends in a no contest - not exactly the best way to present your new champion would you agree?

Shawn would go on to win the Rumble to set up Diesel vs. Shawn for the title at WrestleMania 11 although it’s not in the main event slot, which goes to Lawrence Taylor vs Bam Bam Bigelow instead. Kevin gets a lot of flack of being the “worst drawing champion” in WWF history. Considering what he was working with - how he was presented - was it a surprise business was down - and does anything fall at Kevin’s feet regarding this?

Diesel would get the win at Mania over Shawn but the big story of the match is how amazing Shawn looks - and Shawn gets over big time as a babyface - and would turn the next night babyface when attacked by his bodyguard Sid. Did any of this scenario help Kevin do you think?

Diesel is then programmed with Sid - and my goodness these matches - they were not great were they JR?

The highlight of these matches were probably the tag match with Diesel & Bam Bam taking on Sid & Tatanka at the infamous King of the Ring in Philadelphia. Is this rock bottom for the WWF in 1995?

Well maybe not so fast…Mabel did win the King of the Ring and would go on to take on Diesel at SummerSlam 1995… Was Kevin ever given a real chance to be a draw do you think?

In October Diesel would take on the British Bulldog at an In Your House and it’s reported that Vince McMahon threw down his glasses and his headset and said the show was “horrible” as he walked to the back with you. Do you remember this all going on - and Vince’s reaction?

Did you know immediately that Kevin’s title reign was coming to an end?

Was it time for him to drop the title?

It’s reported that the Kliq was causing major morale problems in the locker room - from moving titles around - holding up house shows - refusing jobs - did you ever have to encounter or deal with any of it?

What came across your desk or your radar?

What did you think of them - does it change your opinion of them?

Bret pins Diesel at the Survivor Series to end Kevin’s 1-year title reign - and after he does the small package finish - the camera zooms in on Diesel and he says, “Motherfucker” and powerbombs Bret twice after the bell and destroys referees.

Was this the attitude change Kevin needed?

Was there more money in him as a heel compared to a babyface champion?

The next night Jim you & Vince are talking about his new attitude on commentary - and even in an interview Kevin would complain about how the company packaged him and that wasn’t the real Diesel. This is sort of the beginning of a more attitude switch to a more adult audience wouldn’t you say?

Kevin would enter the Royal Rumble and be eliminated last by Shawn Michaels - and then get involved in Bret’s match with the Undertaker for the WWF title - by pulling the ref out of the ring and saving the title for Bret. Kevin would flip off everyone in the ring - one of the first times that’s shown on WWF TV - and the new heel Diesel is here.

Did you know at this point - that Kevin’s deal was coming up? Were you involved in any of that at the time?

At the time - there’s a lot of moving parts. Scott Hall is suspended for a failed drug test and it’s reported that both Scott & Kevin have been offered deals to go jump to WCW. Did you expect these two guys - who went nowhere in WCW - rebuilt their careers and became superstars - to leave the WWF?

The story has always been Kevin didn’t want to leave but Vince wasn’t willing to budge on a contract offer. Is that what you heard?

Kevin has said in interviews that the night that solidified his decision on jumping to WCW was the In Your House in Louisville where his steel cage match between himself & Bret was to have a powerbomb finish where Undertaker would come up from underneath the ring to stop him and Bret would climb out and Bret wouldn’t take the powerbomb. Did you ever hear this story and is it a surprise Kevin felt that way?

Nash gives notice and signs his deal with WCW but is still a major player for the next few months. His match with Undertaker at WrestleMania 12 is a great one and he put Undertaker over clean in the middle - before his match with Shawn Michaels at In Your House.

Did you think Kevin handled himself well on his way out…besides you know the whole Curtain Call thing?

He puts Shawn over clean on pay-per-view before the Curtain Call. We discussed it in full detail on our 2nd episode of Grilling JR available now in  the archives. - but let’s put a button on this now. Knowing what you know now - that supposedly Vince signed off on it - would you still be as angry?

Diesel - well Kevin Nash - exits the company - starts the nWo in WCW with Scott Hall and eventually Hulk Hogan - and would eventually become WCW World Champion - the man who ends Goldberg’s streak - gets a role in creative… were you surprised to see Kevin do all those things?

Do you think Vince ever regretted letting Kevin go?

When the opportunity to bring Kevin back after WCW closed - were you for or against it?

Would you had been more open to having Kevin come back if it wasn’t in the nWo storyline - or without Scott maybe?

We’ve talked a lot about Nash’s return to WWE in 2002 last year here on Grilling JR in our 20-year later look back at the major WWE PPV events. But Kevin blowing his knee out live on Raw - where does that rank in your all-time bad moments to be broadcasting for?

He would return in early 2003 - and the story is Vince wanted to bring him back as Diesel. Do you think that would’ve worked?

Kevin was immediately put back into the top spots and is building to a match with Triple H for the World Title. This is the program Hunter and Kevin always wanted right?

Nash would get his shot at Hunter at Judgment Day that ended in a DQ to build to Bad Blood for a Hell in a Cell match. Was Kevin still able to be in the conversation as a top guy at this point in his career?

Sadly - the build for this doesn’t go great and its decided that Mick Foley is needed to put the match over the top and he’s made Special Guest Referee. Hunter would get the win with everyone bleeding including Foley after a sledge hammer shot and a pedigree for the win. Was it time to move Kevin down the card?

Speaking of moving Nash down the card - just 2 weeks later - Test is defeating Kevin in under 2 minutes. Was it a sign that it was time to move on?

A month later - Chris Jericho defeats Kevin in a hair vs. hair match and it’s not a great match. Kevin gives up his hair for his new role in the movie the Punisher - but his last match in the WWE is a week later at SummerSlam in the World Title Elimination Chamber match - and he’s the first eliminated.

Do you think Kevin was ready to move on himself?

What were your conversations with him around this time?

Kevin spends a lot of time in TNA off and on for the next 7 years before returning to the Royal Rumble in 2011 as Diesel and a surprise - but would work a program later on that year with CM Punk and Triple H which would culminate in Hunter beating Nash in a Ladder Match at TLC. What did you think of Kevin in this run?

He would have one last match in the WWE - in 2014 at the Royal Rumble before being inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2015 and then inducted again as part of the nWo. Nash is a surefire Hall of Famer is he not?

Did you ever have any personal issues with Kevin at any point in time?

What is his legacy in this business?

Did you two ever discuss the Fake Diesel storyline and gimmick?