Grilling JR - Royal Rumble 2003 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

We’re coming off the December PPV - Armageddon 2002. HHH is the Raw World Champion again by defeating Shawn Michaels in the 3 stages of hell match. And Kurt Angle is the Smackdown World Champion, defeating the Big Show…but the big news is it’s time to build from the Rumble to WrestleMania.

Is this the typical time for everyone to start gearing up for Mania - including getting talents in place and agreements made for the big event. Is this something Vince gives you the direction to do - or does Vince take charge and handle it?

From the Observer:

Raw on 12/16 in Orlando was the first good Raw show in a long time. Show was built from the start around the idea that Morley had promised Steiner his contract signing as the main event and Bischoff had promised HHH a tribute as the main event, and when Steiner and HHH were both asked to back off the spot, they both refused.

Big Poppa Pump stepping into the company and immediately being programmed with Hunter - everyone had to have high hopes for this right?

“Michaels did an interview and challenged HHH to come out. Thank HHH that Jericho came out, because he made this segment with his best mic work in a while. Jericho did a promo saying that Michaels was his hero, but he’s now washed up, calling him the “Has Been Kid.” Michaels laid out Jericho to end it with a superkick. This had the old Michaels perfect timing.”

This is to begin the Michaels - Jericho program that’ll lead to Mania. This was what Jericho needed to get back on track again as he fell way down the card in 02 even with starting as Undisputed Champion. Do you think this was Michaels wanting to work with Jericho?

Lance Storm & William Regal are building a winning streak on Raw - do you think there was more that could’ve been done with those two at a tag team?

“Flair cut a promo on Steiner while he was doing curls with one of those rubberized hoses. Steiner paid no attention to Flair until Flair insulted him. Steiner pinned Flair against the wall. Flair’s eyes and facials put Steiner over better than anyone else in the company will be able to.”

Were there issues between Flair and Steiner at the time that had to be worked out before they would work together?

“Final segment saw Bischoff come out with HHH, showing clips of all the careers he’s destroyed. HHH bragged about who he had beaten, mentioning Austin, Rock, Angle, Undertaker, Kane, Michaels and Foley.

Noteworthy that he didn’t even consider Jericho, Benoit, Booker or Van Dam as even worthy of bringing up. Steiner came out and the two went nose-to-nose. Bischoff announced they’d have a match at Rumble and Steiner signed his contract. Steiner wanted to fight him and gave him a first shot. HHH sauntered out of the ring.

The byplay was funny here. HHH said that Steiner was a big fish in a small pond. The way I see it, Steiner was a big fish in a large pond filled with quicksand. HHH is the one who is a big fish in an almost empty pond. After all the stuff they’ve screwed up, this segment was almost perfect.

They never touched and left you wanting to see a new match. They elevated Steiner to top positioning right away and gave the main event a fresh feel it hasn’t had in a long time.

Most importantly, they are going to put Steiner on top right away, before he has time to get injured.

The other thing they need to do is keep Steiner out of the ring in serious matches on TV. He can do 1:00 squashes, but nothing more. The more people see him, as noted already at the house shows he’s worked, the less over he gets.”

Do you think Dave has a point in regarding the talents that Hunter put over compared to the ones he left off?

How good did this end up being - and how important was it to get Steiner vs. Hunter before the risk of an injury to Steiner?

SmackDown creatively is all over the place. Kurt Angle is now with Paul Heyman to begin building Angle and Lesnar - even though he just aligned with Big Show. Was this…I don’t know Jim…too much gaga when a simple straight program between Kurt & Brock could’ve been money on its own?

Speaking of SmackDown creative…Torrie & Al Wilson’s story with Dawn Marie. This…has Vince McMahon written all over it…but eventually it’s announced that on a live SmackDown the wedding of Dawn & Al will be taking place. Weddings do get good ratings…but did you enjoy any of this?

Ernest Miller is handling backstage interviews - how did the Cat come to be in the WWE? Did you think he was better in an on-air capacity compared to a wrestling capacity?

The next week Raw is in Oklahoma City. We’re going to get to your participation - but did you dread when the WWE would come to OKC?

From the Observer:

“Bischoff & Chief Morley were mad at Ross & Lawler because Ross said during a commercial that they should be worrying more about business and less about humiliating people and we’d have a better TV show. There was so much irony in that. Bischoff threatened us with Tony Schiavone & Jesse Ventura as announcers just when I thought Raw couldn’t possibly get worse. It set up a match with Ross & Lawler in the main.”

When you’re told you’re going to be wrestling in the main event - is it a roll your eyes moment - like here we go again?

Bischoff bringing up Tony & Jesse - and let’s be honest your line about worried more about business than humiliating people - probably wasn’t far away from what you had been thinking right?

Go out of your way to watch this Raw on Peacock - because Booker & Goldust beat Jericho & Christian in a great tag team match - they really carried Raw in terms of the wrestling in late 02 early 03 didn’t they?

Also on that Raw - and really once again a great angle - is the arm wrestling angle between Scott Steiner & Triple H.

“They wound up doing the arm wrestling gimmick, and did it really well, in particular Steiner acting like he was about to be put down, and then smiling like he was “working” HHH before making the comeback. HHH did a great job of selling the comeback. HHH asked for a left handed match and Steiner flashed him (arm-wrestling term for put his arm down in less than a second) three times. HHH backed off again.”

The build is fantastic - then as our old friend Bruce has said in the past - then the bell rang at the Rumble but we’ll get to that.

“Main was Jim Ross & Lawler over Regal & Storm, ending their winning streak at eight weeks. Your basic Christmas feel good deal. This was much better than it reads because Regal & Storm largely played to Lawler’s strengths, as he did a few trademark spots and didn’t sell for long periods. Regal brought in the Knux but Ross got them. Storm attacked Ross and was putting the boots to him. Dudleys came out and gave Storm a 3-D. Ross then hit Regal with the Knux, which didn’t look bad, and got the pin. They had the Oklahoma University pep band there playing for Ross’ ring entrance and played again. Dudleys held Ross up on his shoulder and he and Lawler hugged to the expected hometown crowd pop for Ross.”

This had to be a foreign feeling for you - but what did you think of the match?

Speaking of SmackDown…Team Angle is announced by Paul Heyman to join Kurt - and it’s Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin. Was this the perfect role for these two to come up and to have them be attached to?

Haas & Benjamin are two of the best amateurs to come through the system - you had to be excited to see them on the main roster right?

From the Observer:

SmackDown is live which features the Wilson-Dawn Marie wedding. Did you get a feel of any difference between a live SmackDown and a taped SmackDown? Do you lend any credence that it’s a different product?

“Dawn Marie came out and said she was going to get married in the nude. This came off so desperate for ratings that even the densest person at home would think they were panicking. Stephanie told her she couldn't take her clothes off, but she vowed she'd do it anyway. This was just another of those annoying segments to get Stephanie over as the boss that all the wrestlers have to bow down to.”

Stephanie’s character at the time - that’s just the McMahons being the McMahons back then right?

During the show an Undertaker promo aired - was the talk at the time to have him go back to being the Dead Man do you think? Did the American Badass gimmick’s run begin to reach its end?

Kidman beats Eddy Guerrero as it’s the setup for B2 - Bull Buchanan and John Cena to begin working with the Guerreros. No one to learn better from right?

The Observer:

“The dreaded wedding took place. As good as the Billy & Chuck wedding was (and as great as that was, in hindsight, think of just how little it really meant), this was as bad. The whole deal was Dawn getting married in her underwear, because that's as far as Stephanie would let her go, and Al getting married in his tidey whiteys. Tazz in particular was making fun of this segment from start to finish. It popped a big quarter because of the hype, but they lost a ton of viewers during and after.

They don't even realize it's segments like this that are why they are hemorrhaging viewers and wrestling is considered so uncool.

The scripted line by Ross (on the OKC Raw) was so close to the mark when he said that if they were to concentrate on building up the product rather than focusing so much on humiliating people, things would be doing a lot better. They even went to the lengths of having Al Wilson wear a prosthetic penis to make it look like he had a hard-on through his underwear. And they also made sure to call attention to it.”

JR - what are we doing here?

“Benoit & Edge beat Haas & Benjamin in 7:06 via DQ when Angle interfered and hit Benoit with a belt shot. As best I could tell, the idea behind this was to debut Haas & Benjamin in the ring with two great workers, to give them a strong first match.

They seemed nervous, but it was a good debut match and they are at least positioned coming in as people fans should care about as opposed to the usual debuts. They couldn't beat anyone here because beating Haas & Benjamin first week in would be bad, and you can't beat Benoit when he's already considered a "weak" title contender as far as stature goes.”

You’ve booked yourself into a corner but still it ends up being a really good match and talk about two guys in Benoit & Edge can take teach and lead right?

It feels like a lot of 02 & 03 is a rebuilding period with talent - is that fair to say?

“When Angle showed up still limping badly at Smackdown in Albuquerque there was concern about him recovering on time for the Rumble match. There is no concern about him not doing the match as much as that it would be impossible for him to be close to top condition by the time of the match and expectations are high for a Benoit vs. Angle match for the title.”

During the holidays when the WWE would be on the road - did you hear a lot of complaints about guys having to work? Or back then - was that just the nature of the business?

The first Raw of 2003 takes place in Phoenix after a best of the week before..and it continues the story with Regal & Storm and you & King…

“Rosey & Rico & Jamal & Batista beat Dudleys in 4:27 in an obliteration ordered by Bischoff because Dudleys helped Ross & Lawler win two weeks earlier. Morley and Flair were interfering as well. Flair even put Bubba in the figure four while Jamal splashed him off the top rope. Batista pinned D-Von after a power bomb and they continued to pound on him after the match. Lawler teased running in for the save but Ross told him there were too many of them. Storm & Regal confronted Ross & Lawler. Dudleys were still in the ring so Regal KO'd Bubba with the power of the punch and Storm put D’Von in the sharpshooter. Bubba juiced. “

Do you hate the focus being on you in these types of storylines? Or did you know you needed the heat to add to some of the guys?

“HHH and Steiner had a posedown. This went something like 25 minutes. Brutally long. HHH was really funny, especially to the two bodybuilding fans watching on television who got the joke about this being as honest as a Mr. Olympia judging panel.

“Anyway, for the first time in history, we had a posedown where both guys wore pants. Since all of HHH’s jokes were aimed at the two fans watching who double as pro bodybuilding fans, that was actually the funniest thing of all because competition bodybuilders biggest thing is to make fun of guys with big arms and chests and no legs that go to the beach wearing pants. This wasn't well put together because everything about impressive physiques is all about the lighting and this was lit poorly. I mean, it's brilliant they got another two quarter hours out of these two and kept them from touching. They posed. HHH embarrassed Steiner, who clearly didn't know what he was doing (he hit a biceps shot when they asked for a side chest). Steiner's biceps and shoulders are freaky, but it ends there.”

This…is just so bad. How do you feel commentating or discussing this? Did this begin the downward spiral for these two in the program do you think?

“Bischoff thought it was a great show, and announced Lawler vs. Regal for next week, when Vince’s secretary called (well, they just said Vince's secretary) and told him Vince would be at TV next week. Eric didn't look happy.”

Vince coming back - a crutch or a hope to energize the product do you think?

The next SmackDown has some good wrestling…but it’s most remembered for…

“the Dawn Marie-Al Wilson honeymoon stuff, which was awful.

The storyline is that Dawn wanted so much sex with Al that he was dead in bed while Dawn shrieked that her husband wasn't breathing.

The medics revived him with shock treatment. I know this is all tongue in cheek, but doing this fake death after the glad handing themselves about the Owen Hart stuff is so bad. And the argument that nobody believes it, which is true, or takes it seriously, also true, asks the question, if nobody can take it seriously, what is it doing on the show in the final slot on the entire show, positioned as more important than any of the matches, besides undermining everything else on the show?”

Are these fair comparisons between Owen and these angles? Do you think if you compare every angle like this to Owen it’s unfair to the company?

But then again it was bad…

“Hogan must be getting uncertain about an offer to return when his contract expires in a few weeks. He's now publicly claiming that he won't return unless wrestling changes, citing moral problems with the industry as it now is. "If they want to get Hulk Hogan back out there in a very high road, positive fashion, I'd love to come back," he said to the National Post in Canada this past week. "I'm doing this because I want to, not because I have to. It's fun, it's great, it feeds my ego, it feeds my family. It keeps me busy, makes me feel worthwhile, but it has to be the high road for me. I have a hard time with my son, explaining some things."

He said he doesn't want to be on a show that has segments like Torrie Wilson kissing Dawn Marie. From someone good friends with Hogan and also close to the situation, the belief is that Hogan’s new change of tone is because WWE doesn't appear to have an interest in bringing him back right now. McMahon is still smarting over Hogan not coming back for the Lesnar program, and some of his advisers believe bringing Hogan back at this point would be counterproductive. Of course, a year ago, everyone except Vince thought it would be but he still signed Hogan, Hall and Nash to deals, and it was worth it. at least for the No Way Out PPV and through Mania before the dominoes started falling. but Hogan worked out better than anyone expected for a while. . .”

Is this just the ups and downs of the Hulk-Vince relationship or do you think he actually didn’t enjoy the product?

“Vince McMahon met with Bret Hart on 12/18 at Vince's condo in Boca Raton. It would have been their first face-to-face conversation since the infamous conversation they had the day before Owen Hart’s funeral in 1999. It was largely something that an intermediary suggested. Both felt compelled not to insult the other by backing out after everything that had gone down. McMahon had already agreed with no strings attached to allow Hart use of his photos for his upcoming book shortly after Hart suffered his stroke over the summer.”

This is just a step in the right direction is it not…

“Jim Ross announced on 1/3 that he would no longer be doing the "Ross Report" on the company's website. He cited his tough schedule, working on a book, plus his feeling what he wrote would sometimes lead to bad morale among talent if their names weren’t mentioned or if they felt slighted. It was also clear he was bothered by outside criticisms of what he said, or at times, what he didn't say but people felt he was hinting, whether accurately or not.

It was Vince's decision, and not Ross's, to drop the report. Vince was mad that Ross would voice his beliefs on who should be pushed more (which in a wrestling locker room would create heat with people not put over in the report) and sometimes say things that indicated he would like aspects of the product to be different…”

Was this a Vince McMahon decision compared to yours? Were you unhappy about dropping it? Was this a point of contention between you two?

The go-home Raw has Vince return but really the show is built around Hunter and Steiner again but there’s a funny backstage, from the Observer:

“Bischoff saw a limo. It was Gene Okerlund, who supposedly thought tonight was the Raw anniversary show. Bischoff yelled at him for being stupid. Okerlund said that if Bischoff was smart, they'd be having a Nitro anniversary show. Bischoff then told Okerlund the problem was they hired burned out old announcers. Well, Vince found it funny and that's all that counts.”

Vince loved reminding Eric about his failures didn’t he??

Jeff Hardy pinned Raven for a spot in the Rumble and - well Jeff looked really bad in the match and messed up a couple of moves that were obvious. Do you watch this and think - man Jeff’s in a bad place?

“Vince came out to make an announcement.

Jericho came out and begged for the No. 1 spot in the Rumble. Vince was backing down one of his top guys, making him look so second match heel it wasn't funny. He announced that the winner of the Battle Royal (which wasn't called a Battle Royal) could pick his spot in the Rumble, but they couldn't pick No. 1 because Michaels has No. 1.

Remember all those years when the big thing was nobody wanted No. 1? Luckily they don't expect you to think logically.

Then Bischoff came out, and Vince was really in a foul mood, talking about phlegm and bile and all these gross things, and Dreamer wasn't even around to eat them. He asked the fans if they thought Bischoff was doing a good job on Raw. Vince then said he disagreed, and Bischoff was doing a good job, but he hired him to do a great job, to turn the show upside down, make changes. Like HLA and necrophilia weren't enough. He gave Bischoff 30 days to turn it around. The idea behind this is, as things are planned, the last week before the time limit expires, Bischoff is going to make a major signing, who they hope will be Goldberg, but can always be Rock or Austin. Or they can go a different direction and build for Vince vs. Bischoff at Mania if they want to. The idea seems to be to introduce one of those three on 2/10.

The thought process is that even though the entire show buried Bischoff and left him looking like a lap dog, he'll get his heat back when he saves his job in four weeks. They teased Shane would take over if Bischoff failed. Luckily, that was a swerve and there are no plans in that direction.”

These types of things - does this help anyone?

“During the show, when they were running down the Rumble card, and mentioned the Dawn vs. Torrie match, they talked about stepdaughter vs. stepmother, but made no mention of Al Wilson, and I guess to play it safe, I wouldn't have either. However, in a promo for Smackdown that aired earlier in the show, they talked about paying last respects to Al Wilson. The death thing is stupid, but even stupider is to do an angle like that and ignore it. No actually the stupidest thing is doing it.”

This…this just doesn’t hit with anyone does it?

“Next was a HHH vs Steiner bench press challenge. Since I read Chyna's book where she talked about being able to bench more than HHH, even though he's twice the size today as he was then, I knew he wasn't going to bench. Since Steiner is 40 and prone to muscle tears, I knew he wasn't going to bench heavy. But they had a bench and loaded it up with 545 pounds, and said it was 585, and why they needed to lie there is beyond anyone's comprehension.

They never benched. They instead tried to copy one of the all-time classic wrestling angles, the night Steamboat tore off Flair's clothes around 1978 in Raleigh, NC with Flair taking bumps in his underwear but wearing black socks. It was also the night Steamboat met his wife, who was hired that night working as a local model to play one of Flair's dates. They forgot that to make this segment work at that level, you need a bunch of models with the heel so he's embarrassed before women.

Anyway, I've seen this angle three previous times and it was great all three times. And this broke the string. Steiner tore off HHH's clothes and he was bumping around in his underwear and black dress socks.

The crowd, dead by this point (even Vince got a disappointing reaction live and he was overacting to degrees even he doesn't usually reach), didn't react much to the brawl and the brawl looked like two divas fighting.”

All the good will in the beginning of this story is just flushed down the drain by all this right?

The Raw Tenth Anniversary special at The World in NYC on 1/14 was a special show and…kind of crazy now that Raw is hitting its 30th anniversary isn’t it?

Trish is named the Diva of the Decade…and the show isn’t great…

“When Mick Foley won the "Tell me I just didn't see that award," and Booker T mentioned that Foley, who lives on Long Island, couldn't be there, the lack of importance this show had to either the people who didn't invite him, or to him, one of the all-time biggest lifetime fans of wrestling, spoke volumes that everyone understood.

It got worse, as when Rock was announced as the winner of the Best on Interviews in the history of Raw, he also didn't appear. He did do a supposed on satellite interview, which went way too long, and turned out to be another embarrassment. The live crowd booed him heavily, and when he kept going, started chanting "boring," a phrase he likely hasn’t heard attached to him in many years.”

This show is just…all over the place and seems like one of those things that WWE scheduled and couldn’t put together. How much of a mess is this?

There’s…some interesting political stuff going on with it according to Meltzer:

“As it turned out, of the five biggest superstars of the past ten years, and really six if you include Hogan, the only one there was HHH. And Michaels couldn't have been in a good mood about it, no matter what face he put on, to see, in this warped version of history, in the end after everything that went down, Vince made amends to some degree with Hart and placed Hart and Foley ahead of him in importance. And then, after Steve Austin was named Superstar of the Decade (the only rightful pick, over Bret Hart, Undertaker, HHH, Foley and Rock), and also wasn't there, Vince McMahon went into his character and said the reason Austin wasn't there was because "I didn't invite him." Nobody booed. They only groaned.”

Were you talking with Steve at this point about his return?

It’s announced that the best match in Raw history was the TLC match that had just happened the year before with Kane & Hurricane defeating the Dudleys, RVD & Jeff Hardy and Christian & Chris Jericho. This…was just about getting people that could be there actually on TV right?

“Even worse was a ladder match with Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy being put in the top five, when it wasn't even the best ladder match on Raw during this past year (that would have been Rob Van Dam vs. Eddy Guerrero and the only thing that made Undertaker vs. Hardy memorato was it was Jim Ross' best announcing performance of the year on Raw.”

You weren’t really working with much in this era were you?

It’s announced that Austin spraying Vince, Rock & Shane with beer as the top moment of Raw. Is that your top moment?

A guy named Bryan Danielson works the Smackdown/Velocity taping…wonder what would ever become of him?

“Show ended with some of the worst acting you'll ever see. Dawn blamed Torrie for Al's death and slapped her. They started rolling around until Dawn busted a gimmicked lamp on Torrie's head as they rolled around on Al in the coffin.”

Yup…that’s the last segment on the go-home SmackDown before the Royal Rumble…

Speaking of the Rumble we’re here now Jim…and the show is a critical success according to the Wrestling Observer readers with 66.6% thumbs up - which is extraordinary considering the one World Title match we’re going to discuss.

The show is way down from 2002. The 2002 Rumble - featuring the return of Triple H - got 670,000 purchases and this year it gets 585,000. That’s almost 100,000 less purchases.

What does that barometer mean to you?

It is also the WWE’s most successful pay-per-view of 2003 as it would even defeat WrestleMania of the same year…the only time that would ever happen. That has to be a major disappointment does it not?

From the Observer:

“The 2003 Royal Rumble was saved by Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit, who turned in a Match of the year caliber performance, waking up a dying live crowd that was hating the show.

The 17th version of what has become an annual WWE tradition took place on 1/19 at the Fleet Center in Boston, before a legitimate sellout crowd, announced at 15,338 fans. Aside from the Benoit-Angle match, the show came across as filler until the Rumble. The match epitomized the company's apparent problems with organization.

For the last week prior to the show on television, it had been announced that in the Rumble, wrestlers would come in every minute, as opposed to the traditional two minutes (which has changed many years, as they've had 60, 90, 105 and 120) second intervals and many years the intervals were inconsistent throughout the match). Then, in the pre-game show on Heat, they announced it would be the traditional two minutes, which was the time frame also used by Howard Finkel in the ring introductions. Then, when they went down to Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler calling the match, they said it would be 90 seconds.”

How does this type of thing happen or is this just Meltzer nitpicking?

“1. Lesnar pinned Big Show in 6:29 for the final slot in the Rumble. Show was still bothered by a back injury, but took several bumps, particularly from three belly-to-belly suplexes and another belly-to-back suplex. Show delivered a choke slam for a good near fall after stopping Lesnar from giving the F-5 to Paul Heyman. Lesnar used the F-5, with very little help from Show, for the finish. **½”

This continues the babyface push of Brock and the eventual match between him & Kurt at Mania. But let’s be real here JR - this should’ve been the match at Survivor Series and Brock should’ve never lost the title right?

“2. Dudleys won the Raw tag titles over William Regal & Lance Storm in 7:24. It marked the 16th version of the world tag titles won by the Dudleys, which must be some kind of record. Chief Morley came out and told the ref to DQ the Dudleys at one point, but he refused. Good finish. Regal pulled out Knux while Morley had the ref distracted. However, the Dudleys hit the 3-D on Regal, causing him to drop the Knux. D-Von picked them up and hit Storm with them for the pin **¾”

The Dudleys at this point getting the 16th tag team titles was unexpected considering just the year before they were split up in the draft but this is still a good match and a good payoff to Regal & Storm and your program is it not?

“3. Torrie Wilson pinned Dawn Marie Wilson in 3:36 after a swinging neckbreaker. Dawn got no heat coming out. Torrie, despite being dressed in all white like the schoolgirl pure virgin hooker, only got a tepid reaction, being this month's version of Kane, a hot babyface killed by a horrible angle. Crowd was dead, just showing how much television time this thing has wasted. And then worse, after losing, Dawn said that this feud, which has wasted more broadcast time in recent months than any other, MUST CONTINUE. DUD”

How this got so much TV time - just goes to show how much Vince enjoyed it - but how could he not notice this dying a death - pun intended with Al Wilson…

“4. Scott Steiner beat Raw champ HHH in 18:14 via DQ so HHH keeps the Raw title.

Suffice to say Steiner looked terrible and the Orange Assassin couldn't carry him. Ric Flair was the best worker in the match and the only one getting cheered, and he didn't even take any bumps. After one of his numerous belly-to-belly suplexes, Steiner went for the recliner but Flair pulled HHH out of the ring to safety. Steiner did four more belly-to-belly suplexes and then botched the double-arm power bomb spot, nearly killing HHH in the process. Crowd booed both guys from this point forward and only wanted it over. Outside the ring, HHH went for a title belt shot, but Scott blocked it and hit HHH. After yet another belly-to-belly, HHH threw ref Earl Hebner out of the ring. The storyline here, that they were telling from the start, is that HHH was psyched out by Steiner and was looking for a way out. Hebner refused to DQ HHH, which only made the finish a few moments later, when he did DQ HHH for a sledge hammer shot, that much worse. Fans were hating this bad. HHH tried a second sledge hammer shot, but Hebner stopped him and Steiner got the sledge hammer. He nailed HHH to the gut, to a loud chorus of boos from fans who just wanted both guys in the dressing room by this point. Steiner put HHH in the recliner after the match until the entire ref crew broke it up. *”

Some would say Steiner doing all these suplexes is very reminiscent of Brock Lesnar’s recent big matches - but this is just an outright disaster is it not?

“5. Kurt Angle retained the Smackdown title over Chris Benoit in 19:48. The success of this match speaks volumes for the past six months or so of educating the audience toward submissions that actually work, as this exact match 18 months ago in this same position would have died (remember when Ken Shamrock was in the company working submission style and nobody cared about any of his moves except the ankle lock because it was the only one they thought worked). They did another series of trading german suplexes until Benoit did the one where Angle flipped all the way over and landed on his stomach. Benoit did a diving head-butt at least 2/3 of the way across the ring for a near fall, followed by a crossface. Angle escaped, and hit the Angle slam for a great near fall. Angle countered the crossface into an ankle lock. Benoit escaped, but Angle put the ankle lock on again. Benoit tried to escape again, but as he was about to, Angle switched it to a heel hook and Benoit tapped out. The fans then gave Benoit a loud standing ovation for the quality of the match. ****¾”

This is well remembered as one of the best singles matches in the history of the company and really would be the push Benoit needed just a year later to be a top guy - but obviously the Benoit issue is what keeps this hidden from the record books now. Was this one of the best World Title matches you had ever seen in the WWE at this time?

Meltzer would have this to say:

“The Boston crowd ranged from being brutally hard to being strongly appreciative. As expected, the company made a big mistake in booking the HHH vs. Scott Steiner match to go 20 minutes, and it exposed Steiner badly. With Steiner looking bad in five minute house show matches, this should have been kept to 8:00, even in the title slot.

It was also clear once again, that being put in a position of comparison, the Raw title came off so badly next to the Smackdown title, as well as Angle vs. HHH as the mythical real champion. That match left the crowd dead, and for the first several minutes of Angle vs. Benoit, it appeared this would be like some of their television matches, where it is technically good, but the crowd doesn't get into Benoit as a face. Despite being his second match back from knee surgery, and from his own words, being a half-step slow because of the recovery, the knee brace and not in his best cardiovascular condition, Angle overcame it with his usual great PPV performance.”

As Meltzer would point out - Angle is just coming out of knee surgery - and to have this match. Kurt was remarkable at this time wasn’t he?

When you see your brand on Raw represented this way and then the SmackDown brand…did you want to switch sides?

“6. Lesnar won the 30 man Royal Rumble in 53:41. Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho opened. Christian actually came out in Jericho's spot and distracted Michaels so Jericho could get an early edge. Jericho nailed Michaels quickly with a chair shot and Michaels juiced. Jericho eliminated Michaels in 2:27.”

Not what you would expect so it’s a hell of an idea to have Shawn go out that early…

I found this funny…

“Next was Bill DeMott. Ross, who was running overflowing with background knowledge, said DeMott runs a sub 5.0 40 and 285 pounds. I'm sure he did, but I'd bet he couldn't do that today.”

That tickled me.

“In a big tangle-up, Jericho eliminated both Edge & Christian in 15:47, leaving himself alone in the ring. It should be noted one of the main Rumble stories was Jericho constantly on the verge of elimination and doing the skin the cats and stuff to keep himself alive.”

Jericho was the MVP of this Rumble was he not?

“At this point, Michaels showed up doing the famed Spirit of '76 comeback, which led to Test eliminating Jericho in 39:54. As soon as he was gone, Michaels hit a plancha on Jericho. At least they set something clearly up for the future. Still, and this was the prevailing view, Jericho should have made the final four before Michaels did this. So at 39:54, Jericho lasted the longest, and threw out six guys, which was the most.”

Do you think Jericho being there at the end compared to getting thrown out in the middle would’ve meant more?

Lesnar entered and eliminated both Benjamin, Haas & Matt Hardy before Taker was 30 and he ran wild. Taker would toss Cena, Jamal, Maven before a tease of a stare off. For the finish…

“Undertaker gave Batista a tombstone. clotheslined Batista over in 52:56. Undertaker & Kane then acted as if they were going to join forces on Lesnar. Undertaker then double-crossed Kane and threw him out in 53:26. Batista then came back in the ring after Undertaker, but Undertaker clocked him with a chair, giving Lesnar the opportunity to come from behind and toss him out to win. Undertaker congratulated Lesnar for winning and that was the end of the show. ***¼”

This is a hell of a way to finish the story for Lesnar and to build to a possible Taker - Lesnar program again - and Taker’s return felt like a big thing and even gave Batista a rub.

What say you JR - thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs in the middle?