83 Weeks - Larry Zbyszko [Show Notes] (Patreon)

We’re discussing the Living Legend…Lawrence Whistler (born December 5, 1951), better known to everyone as Larry Zbyszko and is just now celebrating his 71st birthday.

Larry was originally trained by Bruno Sammartino and even main evented a show with him at Shea Stadium in 1980 which is the high point of his career. When did you first hear of Zybysko?

Larry would join the AWA in 1984 and eventually marry Verne Gagne’s daughter Kathleen in 1988. Did you know any of Verne’s children?

In 1987, Larry headed to the NWA for a year, before returning to the AWA in January 1989. In 1990, he was the final AWA Champion.

While in the AWA, this would be where you first met Larry, is that correct Eric?

Larry has said he did your first TV interview with you as the announcer when they needed someone to replace Larry Nelson, and you were picked as you’re doing sales work for them at the time.

Larry said you were nervous Eric, and Larry broke out laughing so they had to redo the promo. Any memories of this?

Larry talks about how he was a pilot and used to fly to a lot of the shows and brought you Eric with him a lot, and sort of got you into flying too. Is that accurate?

How close were you with Larry?

Larry returned to WCW in December 1990, and this would be his home for the next 10 years.

Eric, you followed shortly after to WCW in 1991 after the AWA closed down. Larry is teaming with Arn Anderson and part of the Dangerous Alliance. Then he gets kicked out of that group, has a short babyface run, and is asked to become a host / color commentator after taking some time off for surgery. Did you hang out with Larry while starting out in WCW?

“Payday for LIFE”

Larry said he got more money as a color commentator than a wrestler. He starts referring to himself as the “Living Legend” too when he started announcing…what did you think of his transition to commentator?

Larry’s gotten a lot of flack over the years about him trying to get himself over at the expense of what the guys in the ring were doing…did you ever feel that way?

Color commentators today?

You two worked a lot together on shows such as WCW Pro and WCW Power Hour through 1993-1994. Larry said you were a good listener Eric, and Larry would always help you out and feed ideas…what did Larry teach you?

What lessons did you learn from him that you would utilize later?

You were doing voiceovers most of the time right? Did you enjoy doing that compared to calling it live?

What would you say were Larry’s strengths and weaknesses in the booth?

How did your relationship with him evolve as you moved into an executive role?

When Nitro moved to 2 hours in May 96, Larry got a bigger spot in the limelight. He’s doing the first hour with Tony Schiavone and later Mike Tenay. What did Larry add to the product with the move to 2 hours?

Larry’s first Nitro is the show Scott Hall appears on…it’s amazing how his rise from the fans ran parallel with the nWo angle…

And speaking of which…Larry takes some credit for some of the nWo angle starting too.

Quote from a Larry interview:

“Even Scott Hall said it when he was always interviewed a lot but I’m the guy that programmed the New World Order. I actually named the New World Order, not officially, but I was using it and stuff, and Eric heard the New World Order and it got in his mind and he decided, ‘This is the name for the thing,’ but I’m the one that programmed it — the way Scott Hall came in, the way it started and happened. If you start something off right, it gets the most emotion it can. If you start it dumb, you don’t get as much out of it for the fans.”

Is that how you remember it? Or is this Larry adding some folklore to his name?

From another Larry interview:

“Eric did a hell of a job. I mean, he did a great job and got heat, and in a time you didn’t have the dirt sheets and all the blabbers and all this and that, people were diving over the security rails trying to punch Eric out. He got real heat and he did a hell of a job, and the secret was he was a smart guy, smart enough to listen to me.”

Was that your secret? Listening to Larry?

Did you learn any heel heat tactics from watching Larry?

Over time as the nWo gets bigger they commandeer the announce position, and a few times Larry reluctantly leaves the booth - but he’s standing up for himself, and the crowd begin to really get behind him during some of these nWo confrontations. He’s one of the few babyfaces who weren’t killed by the nWo…when do you begin taking notice of this reaction?

Did you think at this point you were leaning towards putting him back in the ring? Did he say anything about wanting to get back in the ring?

During one instance when the nWo takes over the booth on January 13, 1997, Larry said to you Eric before leaving “if you keep making bad decisions then you’ll be mowing Verne Gagne's lawn again…” Is that something you two laugh about afterwards?

Larry getting off headset to the chants of Larry, Larry…were you a fan of that?

Later in the year on July 7 - Larry refused to leave the booth when Scott Hall and Randy Savage came out to take over, and Hall and Larry nearly get into it when Hall throws his shirt at Larry. So we’re slowly setting up the Hall vs Larry feud…was that a direction both of them were excited for?

Any hesitancy in putting Larry back in the ring?

On the July 28 Nitro Eric, you interrupted the Schiavone/Tenay/Bobby Heenan team for the Giant’s match with the Great Muta. Heenan and Tenay leave, but you got Tony to stay. After Giant wins, Larry comes out to the broadcast booth and gets in your face Eric, saying you have no authority and to get out of his broadcast position. You and Larry get into a scuffle Eric, and Larry drags you to the ring and into the hands of the Giant and a mighty chokeslam.

Taking a chokeslam

Did you think at some point you would be wrestling Larry

Was that a Kevin Sullivan idea? Or is this all you?

When did you think there was money to be made with a feud between the two of you?

A week later when you come out to do a promo Eric, you tell JJ Dillon to tell Larry: “If he ever… ever lays another finger on me again, I’m gonna take this left foot and I’m gonna kick him right between the eyes”

JJ then laughs and leaves the ring.

Anybody try to talk you out of this?

At Fall Brawl 97 in September, Larry is doing commentary and during the Hall & Savage vs Luger & DDP match, Larry comes to the ring and takes over as referee when Hall had knocked out two other refs. Larry does a fast count when Luger pins Hall to cost Hall and Savage the match.

This would lead to Hall vs Luger at Halloween Havoc with Larry as the special guest ref: “Lex Luger defeated Scott Hall (w/ Syxx) via disqualification at 14:35 when Syxx attacked guest referee Larry Zbyszko as Luger had Hall caught in the Torture Rack. Hall originally won the match at 12:39 with the Outsider's Edge but Zbyszko had the match continue after seeing replay footage on the big screen of Syxx kicking Luger in the head, as Eric Bischoff distracted Zbyszko. After the match, Zbyszko caught Syxx in a choke sleeper, legitly injuring him, before Hall and Bischoff double teamed Zbyszko, with Bischoff eventually putting one foot on Zbyzsko’s chest as Hall counted to 3.”

Let me just throw this out there Eric - would a younger star been a better fit for you to help get over or maybe to the next echelon doing this story with you - or was it something where it only would’ve worked with Larry?

For the next several weeks, Larry then starts issuing challenges to Hall for a match, but Hall refuses, saying Larry isn’t in his league. Did you think you wrestling Larry would add heat to the Hall side of this program?

On the November 17th Nitro, you and Larry are having a confrontation when the nWo attacks Larry from behind. They held him up so you could land several kicks on him and they left him laying.

The crowd heat is off the charts for this and a fan even jumps the guard rail and goes for you, Eric - and the fan even briefly grabs a hold of you as security drags the guy away.

What was it you think about Larry that made the fans so interested…or do you think it was mainly the heat you had?

On Nitro on November 24, there was a nWo vignette showing you attacking Larry Zbyszko from Nitro the week before; after the vignette aired, Zbyszko left the broadcast table and cut an in-ring promo saying Hall got lucky winning the World War 3 battle royal, and then challenged him to a fight then and there. The nWo music then played as fliers fell from the rafters showing a photo of Bischoff standing atop Zbyszko's body from Halloween Havoc. Moments later, Bischoff interrupted from the aisle saying Hall is a busy man and that Zbyszko was just a retired wrestler that was never that good to begin with. Zbyszko then challenged Bischoff in Hall's place, with Bischoff accepting and Zbyszko going to the floor only to be held back by security, moments later Zbyszko returned to the ring and said they had a verbal agreement and would make sure Dillon would draw up a contract, with Bischoff responding by saying "Bite me"

There is a huge reaction for this…did you ever expect this?

The following week you say you’ll only fight Larry at Starrcade if Nitro is put on the line, meaning you get to be in charge of the show if you win. JJ Dillon agrees to this. And Larry will get the match he wants with Scott Hall at Souled Out if he wins.

Was the plan always to have the nWo get Nitro with the Thunder debut coming?

Did Bret Hart signing change the plans - or was the trial run of that awful nWo Nitro a wake up call?

Did you and Larry work out a lot of the match ahead of time? Was Larry nervous about getting back in the ring again?

Could you have used Bret Hart better?

When we get to Starrcade, Bret Hart (in his PPV debut mind) is the guest referee.

Meltzer would write:

“In the much-hyped match for Nitro, WCW President Bischoff had his first pro wrestling match at the age of 41. Going into the match with what was said to have been a serious knee injury, perhaps a broken kneecap suffered in training for the match that may require surgery (although he was not limping on television the next night), Bischoff did reasonably well for his first match. However, it was nothing close to reasonably well for the semi-main event on the biggest show in company history.”

TSHIRT IDEA “Broken Freakin’ Kneecap!”

What was your injury Eric? Was it a problem and did you guys have to adjust a lot?

“Even with 44-year-old announcer Larry Zbyszko somewhat smaller than in his active days (and maybe in a little better shape), he was so much larger than Bischoff that his attempts to sell Bischoff's weak appearing offense turned the match from a heat seeking missile into an almost ridiculous farce within two minutes. To make things worse, on a night where so much went wrong, in the finish, where Bischoff was supposed to kick Zbyszko in the head in a loaded kick pad with Scott Hall putting an object in the pad, the object went flying out of Bischoff's kick pad into the air just before the kick made contact with Zbyszko's head. Zbyszko had to sell that blow as a knockoff, and Hart, who had teased a heel turn as ref throughout the match, suddenly "shocked" everyone by punching out Bischoff, as he did McMahon, when Bischoff offered him the huge money, thus, I guess, showing publicly that he wasn't a sellout (the announcers never explain what the storylines are since everything is dual storyline nowadays so who knows what the real idea behind that was).”

Eric - we’ve gotten into yelling matches before about this show - but is this a disappointment when the gimmick flies out?

The kickpad flying through the air

Do you think the announcers were ill prepared to explain this - or is that a failure on management to provide them the stories they needed to get this over?

“Hall did a run-in but was quickly put in the scorpion by Hart, which actually got the biggest pop of the show up to that point. Zbyszko then choked Bischoff with his black belt, and Hart got off a laid out Hall, and raised Zbyszko's hand signifying that WCW retained Nitro. As for the big question about Thursday, well, if you've got any good ideas for a Thursday night show, e.mail them to Eric quickly because they're starting on 1/8. And if you've heard any rumors of the concept, they're only rumors because everything right now is up in the air.

Funny story about this one. The magazine On Sat which is a satellite magazine in a story that was delivered to subscribers on 12/23 and 12/24, had a story about the new NWO Thursday Thunder show, which basically gave away the finish of this match (not that anyone shouldn't have figured it out once Hart was named ref). The story also reported that the recent Starrcade was the biggest revenue PPV event in company history, which it probably will be, but since the event hadn't taken place yet and there's no such thing as reliable advances on PPV buys, is something that nobody even knows today let alone before the show took place.”

Say what you need to say Eric.

This is a big win for Larry - and with Sting’s win later in the night should be a banner moment…but Larry doesn’t wrestle again until Souled Out when he gets his match against Scott Hall. This is the less is more theory right?

How was Larry feeling after the match?

At Souled Out 98, Dusty Rhodes turns on Larry in the match vs. Scott Hall:

Observer:

“Larry Zbyszko beat Scott Hall via DQ in 8:09. Hall came out with Louie Spicolli who was his second/flunky, while Zbyszko then brought out Rhodes.  For an issue that has drawn so much heat for so many months, it was almost eerie the lack of heat once they actually got in the ring. There was nothing wrong with the match, as Zbyszko's actual work was solid and visually he looked in better shape than when he was a full-time wrestler, but there was nothing good about the match either. The only strong reaction was a huge "Larry sux" chant, followed by a smaller "Hall sux" chant. There was a period where the match threatened to fall apart, before they went to the finish. Hall, who was getting a pretty solid face reaction by this point, delivered his fallaway slam. He went for the edge, but Zbyszko backdropped his way out of it. Hall came back with a few clotheslines that Zbyszko didn't sell well (Zbyszko never took clotheslines during his career). Zbyszko was supposed to kick referee Mickey Jay, and actually barely grazed the kick but Jay sold it since there was no other choice. Hall had him pinned with no ref, but then Zbyszko got Hall in a front facelock with a bodyscissors and Spicolli interfered for the DQ. Rhodes ran in and delivered the big elbow on Spicolli, who sold it so well that if they could go back 13 years in the time machine, Dusty would have made him one of the Four Horsemen. Rhodes went to elbow Hall, who moved and "accidentally" clobbered Zbyszko. At this point, Rhodes teased going after Hall, but then took off his shirt revealing an NWO t-shirt, and Rhodes and Spicolli began dropping elbows on Zbyszko while announcer Tony Schiavone acted disgusted. As Zbyszko was laying there to get sympathy, a huge "Larry sux" chant started again”. *

Was this too much exposure for Larry at this point? Too much too quickly too close together?

You started building up Larry vs Louie Spicolli for SuperBrawl in February 98, but unfortunately Spicolli passed away a week before the show…how did Larry handle that?

Larry did not get back into the ring again and would continue to be a commentator…did you ever have any other ideas or thoughts about getting Larry back in the ring?

Did your relationship ever change with Larry in WCW?

He is brought back to have one match in 1999 after you’re gone when he loses a retirement match to Curt Hennig…and then forms the Old Age Outlaws with Terry Funk, Arn Anderson & Paul Orndorff to feud with the nWo 2000…bro…

He works some indies after WCW closes and then Larry put a lawsuit out against WWE in 2002 over them using the “Living Legend” name for Chris Jericho. Nothing really comes of it from a legal point and WWE agreed to drop the name…strong showing by Larry Z huh?

He had a run in TNA from 2003-2006, including a couple of matches with AJ Styles in January of 2003 and losing a hair vs. hair match to Raven in 2006…but that was really the end of a national audience for Larry. Did you keep in touch with him at all?

He would eventually be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame by his trainer & hero Bruno Sammartino and has one of the more emotional speeches…well-deserved honor don’t you think?