My World w/ Jeff Jarrett - Dutch Mantell [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Wayne Maurice Keown, born in Walhalla, South Carolina on November 29, 1949 (fun fact Jerry Lawler was born the exact same day) so today is Dutch’s 73rd birthday.

He would debut in pro wrestling in 1972 as Wayne Cowan working in Georgia before moving to the name of Dutch Mantel by December of 1974. The first thing we could find of Dutch wrestling your father was at Chilowee Park in Knoxville on March 28th, 1975 - and you would be 7 years old at this time.

Is this the first time you remember hearing the name Dutch Mantel?

How can you describe Dutch to our listeners - look - work from what you remember way back when?

Dutch was the classic traveling wrestler - Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Texas but his greatest run was in Puerto Rico where they sold out a 16,000 seat stadium for nine weeks in a row as a tag team with Cowboy Frankie Laine in 1979. Nine weeks in a row Jeff…that’s gotta be some type of record right?

Dutch would eventually come to Memphis and on August 4, 1980, Dutch and Austin Idol defeated Jerry Jarrett & Tojo Yamamoto to win the CWA World Tag Team Titles in a No DQ match at the Mid-South Coliseum…do you remember this match?

What was Dutch good at as a worker in Memphis in the 80s?

In 1982 Dutch and Jerry Lawler faced off in a good guy vs. good guy series.

“Mantel achieved what no other opponent could do while Lawler was a babyface and that was to get a clear cut win over the King.”

What was different about Dutch in his series of matches with Lawler? What type of respect did he command to be able to get a clean win over Lawler?

In 1986, after Lawler lost a Loser Leaves Town match against Bill Dundee, Lawler and Mantel finally mended their ways long enough to face Dundee and Buddy Landel in a Texas Tornado Death Match at the Mid South Coliseum in front of a sold out red hot Memphis crowd. The match went a record 28 falls, lasting one hour and 15 minutes…

This is just epic Memphis is it not? This was the last time the Mid-South Coliseum was sold out for professional wrestling…the power of Lawler coming back…can you put it into words?

Well the story about this Texas Tornado match was it was set up after a hot angle on Memphis TV on March 8, 1986,  where Dundee and Landel beat up young referee Jeff Jarrett after their match, and also his dad Jerry Jarrett when he tried to make the save for him, specifically targeting his one good eye.

Dutch then comes running out to make the save from the showers in his bare feet, shampoo still in his hair, and ends up picking Jeff up and carrying him out.

Is this one of your first angles you were a part of?

Did you think at that point in time - with Lawler making the comeback and the hot angle - selling out the Coliseum…that it was going to be the highest point for the business in Memphis at that point?

What was Dutch like to you growing up in the business?

One of your earliest matches is teaming with Dutch in a 6-man tag:

June 2, 1986:

Billy Travis, Dutch Mantel & Jeff Jarrett defeat Danny Fargo, Pat Rose & Rip Rogers at the Mid-South Coliseum in a Nightmare match

This is a lot of pressure this early on in your career but you got a lot of veterans in there don’t you?

Dutch would find a home in this area - did you get to spend a lot of time with him?

We’ve talked about doing an AdFreeShows bonus show about this - and you have! Available right now over on AdFreeShows.com. But what can you tell us about your match at the Smithsonian’s music concert hall with Dutch…

-strange match with Jeff vs Dutch (October 1988)

at the Smithsonian's music concert hall for the cultural institutions Lonesome Pine Specials as Walter Mays conducts his percussion orchestra “War Games”

The orchestra match: (AFS bonus show)

Dutch was given the CWA Heavyweight Title in a phantom title change after Wendell Cooley walked out of the promotion. On TV they said Dutch used a chair to win the belt, then Jeff came out with a vhs tape of the “phantom match” and was gonna have it played but Dutch destroyed the tape. How often did this type of stuff happen back then?

Why Dutch here, do you remember?

This led to Jeff and Dutch singles match on 1/28/89 at the Memphis TV studios, Dutch wins by DQ when Jeff uses a chair

This is one of the bigger titles for Memphis at the time…are you surprised he didn’t have many singles title reigns in his career?

3/11/89 - Jeff won the CWA Heavyweight Title from Dutch at the Memphis TV studios. And several rematches at the Mid-South Coliseum.

How big a deal is this to you?

What did you learn working with and against Dutch?

On July 22nd, 1989 you and Dutch have your final match together is actually teaming up again for an 8-man 2/3 falls matches at the Memphis TV studios:

Bill Dundee, Dutch Mantel, Jeff Jarrett & Nightmare Freddie defeat Chris Champion, Doug Gilbert, Keith Eric & Tony Anthony

What a lineup this is Jeff. Did you think at that point it would be the last time you would wrestle with or against him?

Dutch finishes up in Memphis is March 1990 and goes to WCW, where he spends most of the rest of the year as a color commentator on WCW Worldwide with Tony Schiavone, as well as wrestling…why do you think he never got a fair shake in WCW at the time?

Dutch would finish up in WCW in July of 91 and head back to Memphis. Were you happy to see him?

How valuable was Dutch to all aspects of the business back then?

He would eventually move on to Smoky Mountain, Puerto Rico and then all of a sudden he’s Uncle Zebekiah in the WWF managing the Blu Brothers…Ron & Don Harris and later Justin Hawk Bradshaw. What did you think of his work in the WWF?

Were you traveling with him back then?

From the WWF he would end up back in Memphis & Puerto Rico and that’s when he would start to be more on the creative side of things as he’s wrapping up his in-ring career. How smart was Dutch creatively?

It was in Puerto Rico - the IWA that he achieved his greatest success as a booker.

“Mantel set a record while in Puerto Rico (IWA), in the number of hours that a single writer produced a TV wrestling show as he was responsible for four hours a week, 52 weeks a year, for a total of 208 hours a year for five years straight. His ratings also set records as his shows regularly ranged in the 12 to 15 range, with his highest being an 18.1, with a 55 share of the TV viewing audience while working for WWC in 2000”

Does this land on your radar at the time in 2000 while you’re in WCW?

How come Dutch wasn’t a part of TNA in the beginning?

When it becomes time for him to come into the company - did you go to Dutch? Did he go to you?

What was his role?

Was there one thing he championed more than anything? It has been reported he was instrumental in several successful creations for the company - notably the Knockouts division later on…

From the Observer 9/29/03:

“Dutch Mantel started this week as booker. Mantel was offered twice what he was earning in Puerto Rico as booker of IWA, and Victor Quinones wouldn't match the offer. Plus, IWA's non-big show business has been down of late and even the big shows aren't as hot as they were two months ago. Everything has a cycle, and for Mantel, this looked to be almost the perfect time to make the switch. Whether Mantel was the best booker in wrestling over the past two years is open to interpretation. Whether he was the most successful booker given the talent he had and the budget limitations is not. He was, and those closer to the situation than me credit him with being the key force in IWA overtaking WWC and going from being deeply in debt to running a profitable business. The turnaround came right after Mantel was hired from WWC by IWA and IWA went from losing about $1 million the previous year to becoming one of the few full-time profitable wrestling companies in the world last year. Mantel was sharing booking duties of late with Bushwhacker Luke Williams and Savio Vega. He will still remain affiliated with IWA as a consultant, but won't be going to Puerto Rico any longer.

This appears to be the final straw in Russo losing power, although as a talent, he was more prominent on the 9/17 show than he'd been in several weeks.”

Why the move to Dutch from Russo - or is that not accurate?

From the Torch 11/22/03:

•Jeff Jarrett and Dutch Mantel have been writing the TNA shows for a few weeks now. The weekly creative meetings are held Thursday mornings in Nashville and are attended by Jarrett, Mantell, Jimmy Hart, Glenn Gilberti, Scott D’Amore, and Dixie Carter. Jarrett still has final say on all booking matters, and Mantel is clearly second in creative power. Gilberti, who used to write the shows along with Vince Russo, is still involved, but only as a contributor. D’Amore also contributes his ideas, but he’s not nearly as involved in the process as he was when Russo and Gilberti were writing the shows. Russo is said to be unhappy about his demotion from the writing crew, but keeps in regular contact with Panda’s Dixie Carter. The general consensus is that Russo is being retained by TNA as Carter’s fallback plan, but there are some who say Jarrett asked for Russo to remain on the payroll due to their friendship. The excuse Russo was given for being sent home is that Hulk Hogan wouldn’t work with the company if he was involved in the creative process. Russo has been telling friends he believes Jarrett would have sent him home anyway because they butted heads creatively quite often over the last six months or so. Russo feels, and a lot of wrestlers agree, that Mantel is nothing more than a yes-man for Jarrett, whereas Russo would challenge Jarrett on their creative differences. Russo has also been telling friends that he watches the shows and has been noting what he perceives to be a drop in quality since he and Gilberti stopped writing the show..

Jeff - what do you say to all that?

“There is concern that Mantel walked in without much knowledge of the history of TNA, and that Jeff is being influenced greatly by Dutch as he books the X Division in a completely different way than has been done previously. “The X Division used to main event sometimes, and never worse than third from the top, but now it’s being treated like WWE treats the Cruiserweight Division, and it’s demoralizing,” says one TNA wrestler…”

Was there a concern when Dutch comes in about his product knowledge? Is that something of a worry to you?

Was the creative process with Dutch better for you? What were the differences between him & Russo?

What were some of the shifts when Dutch came in? What did he stress?

From the Torch 7/17/04:

“Wrestlers are complaining about co- booker Dutch Mantel again. They say that he is stubborn and insists that things be done his way. “You can’t even suggest anything to him,” one wrestler said. A second wrestler said that Mantel and all TNA officials seem to have the, “Take your money and keep your mouth shut or we’ll keep you home,” attitude. Others pointed out that he seems paranoid in that he won’t let anyone spend too much time with Jeff Jarrett before sticking his nose in to see what’s going on. It is possible that Mantel has been asked by Jarrett to run interference for him. Either way, Mantel is one of the least popular authority figures in the TNA dressing room”

What would you say to that? Was that Dutch’s role - to keep people away from you?

From the Torch 9/18/04:

“When Dutch Mantel is told about someone making a suggestion for their character or a storyline, his pat response is: “F--- ’em.” It’s clear Mantel is feeling burnout from being TNA booker and pressure due to the lack of success the promotion has had since he was brought in. “His one and only goal each week is to keep Jeff Jarrett happy,” says one TNA wrestler. “Nothing else matters to him, and it’s really why there’s so many problems around here.” Says another wrestler: “There are so many talented people around here with different strengths, and they (Jeff Jarrett and Mantel) don’t delegate well at all, so they end up overworked and everyone else feels underutilized. It’s really frustrating because things could be so much better”

Do you think that’s just a wrestler unhappy talking to Wade? Did you feel that his only goal was to keep you happy?

Was Dutch burnt after a year or so do you think?

Did you have any blow ups or fights with Dutch about anything during the creative process?

From the Torch 11/27/04:

“Dusty Rhodes replaced Jeff Jarrett as head booker of TNA this week. Jerry Jarrett spoke for several minutes, then introduced Dusty to the TNA wrestlers at a big meeting at Tuesday’s Impact taping. Dusty told the wrestlers that he has a different vision for TNA’s booking than Jeff and he would begin to implement changes over the next few tapings.

Dutch Mantel remains Dusty’s booking assistant, although he will probably have less influence over booking matters working with Dusty than he did working with Jeff. Jeff Jarrett was said to be in good spirits. Although he fought for the booking job, once it was taken from him, he seemed to realize a big weight had been lifted from his shoulders..”

Jeff - we’ve briefly touched on this - but what can you tell us about this shift?

How did Dutch & Dusty get along?

Was Dutch worried about his spot?

Torch

“It is heavily rumored that Dutch Mantel is going to be the first casualty of the power struggle between the Jarretts. Mantel has been performing his usual duties at the recent tapings, but wrestlers say he is acting like a person who knows his days are numbered. He used to run interference between the wrestlers and Jeff Jarrett, but didn’t play that role last week, instead telling several wrestlers to take any of their concerns or complaints directly to Jeff. “He came off very nervous,” observed one wrestler. The same wrestler said the overwhelming majority of wrestlers would be happy to see Mantel leave, which concurs with what numerous wrestlers have been saying for months now. “What comes around goes around,” said the wrestler. Mantel didn’t act any more enthusiastic this week when Dusty took over. The betting line, though, is that Dutch Mantel will remain active in the TNA front office. Although he was an ally of Jeff Jarrett throughout the power struggle, Jerry considers Dutch to be like an unofficial member of the family..”

Do you think Dutch was that unpopular in the locker room?

Dutch doesn’t leave and is still part of the creative process for a long time. What was Dutch & Dixie’s relationship like?

It’s been said that Dutch found Awesome Kong…were there talents he brought in that we would be surprised to know?

What was Dutch’s strengths and weakness creatively?

Dutch’s time in TNA ends in late July of 2009 and it’s reported as creative differences. Strap in Jeff as we’re finally going to touch on this subject…

Observer 8/10/09:

“The turmoil in TNA continued this past week with the firing of creative team member/agent Dutch Mantel (Wayne Kowan, 59) and agent Savio Vega (Juan Rivera, 42).

The belief is the firings were to send a message, which was received clearly regarding Jeff Jarrett’s power base. Jarrett was sent home, believed to be when company president Dixie Carter found out that Jarrett was seeing Karen Angle after Jarrett had apparently assured her that the rumors of such weren’t true. Most feel that widespread changes are going on in TNA, but nobody seems to have a clue what they are.

Mantel told friends that he saw his firing as “taking a bullet for Jarrett.” Mantel had success as a booker in Puerto Rico for years before joining the TNA staff in 2003. Booking the U.S. as a secondary promotion is a lot harder than booking in Puerto Rico before WWE toured regularly and where wrestling is a much bigger part of the culture. He had adopted the attitude of getting along to keep his job, as Jerry Jarrett said that when Mantel first got there and was upset about the direction, Jerry Jarrett told him that he could either keep his job or be right.”

Did you think the company made the right move in letting him go? Was it taking a bullet for you?

Did this change your relationship with him?

He would go back to the indies and IWA Puerto Rico and wrote and released his first book in December 2009 “The World According to Dutch…available at Amazon if you’re interested.

He was also a major part of Ring Ka King creative as well wasn’t he?

All of a sudden he would appear in the WWE as Zeb Colter - managing Jack Swagger and beginning the run as the Real Americans. Were you happy to see him in the WWE?

I thought he did a tremendous job in the gimmick - what say you?

He would be with the WWE until May of 2016 when he was released. Very quickly he appears at a Global Force Wrestling/WrestlePro show in June. Did you reach out to him?

What would Dutch’s role had been in GFW if it had ever gotten up and running the way you wanted it?

He would return to TNA in January 2017 - same time as you did - did you bring him in?

He begins as creative consultant but very quickly replaces John Gaburick as head of creative. Why the shift?

How important was Dutch to you in getting TNA back to where you wanted it?

Dutch leaves TNA in December when Don Callis & Scott D’Amore take over. Are you surprised they didn’t stick with Dutch?

What has Dutch meant to you in your life & career?

What is his legacy in this sport do you think?

What is your favorite Dutchism?