83 Weeks - Master P & No Limit Soldiers [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today here on 83 Weeks we’ll talk about one of the most unique things that took place in WCW towards the end of your run - Master P & the No Limit Soldiers coming into the company.

The previous successes of bringing celebrities into WCW had to have a dual effect. You liked using celebrities as it helped generate interest & ratings & buyrates…but at the same time celebrities had to have seen the success of this and been interested in building their brand through WCW as well right?

Where did this idea come from to bring them in? Was it him reaching out to WCW, was he friends with wrestlers in the locker room who brought it up, did you reach out to him? Walk us through that process.

Did you know who Master P was? I don’t get the sense he was your type of…music so to speak…

Percy Miller is Master P and to put into context his role in pop culture and the music business in 1999 when he comes into WCW - he blew up in 1997 with his song called “Make ‘Em Say Uhh!” He would build his No Limit Soldiers label into one of the biggest in not just hip hop but music as a whole at this time. He also was an athlete, playing minor league basketball and was just starting to get into the sports mainstream by starting No Limit Sports and being a sports agent with Ricky Williams as his biggest client. Master P wasn’t just a rapper - he was a mainstream name that you could compare at the time to even Jay Z just years later. There was a ton of potential in this collaboration wasn’t there?

It’s been said that this was really done to do one thing - getting Master P’s cousin Randy Thorton - who would become Swoll - a break into professional wrestling. Would you agree with that?

Was bringing this type of hip hop influence a mistake considering WCW’s very deep and based southern roots?

From the Observer:

“Not much in the way of details are known at press time, but WCW announced the signing of rap star Master P and former NBA star Dennis Rodman.

P, who once played minor league basketball, is the biggest player in music these days and just started No Limit Sports, as a sports agent which includes Ricky Williams as a client, will appear at major television tapings including the 7/5 Nitro at the Georgia Dome and possibly the 6/21 Nitro at the New Orleans Superdome.

P had bragged in a conversation that his appearing would sell out both buildings. Several of the wrestlers urged Bischoff to tie in with P, whose bodyguard Swoll wants to be a pro wrestler, and probably would have tied in with the WWF if WCW hadn't have made the deal.”

Did you ever hear talk about Master P and the WWF? Did you think Vince McMahon would swoop in and attempt to make this deal?

Was the deal ever supposed to be more than just a couple of television appearances?

Speaking of the deal…according to WCW contract data Master P was only paid $293,000 for his appearances…was there a separate deal…

But Swoll was signed to a $350,000 deal with a $50,000 signing bonus. ERIC! $350K!

From the Torch:

WCW introduced Master P during a June 14 press conference, highlights of which aired later that day on Nitro. Gene Okerlund introduced Master P as a “writer, director, creator, performer, rapper extraordinaire.” He said Master P was the eleventh highest grossing entertainer in the world in 1998 and “the creator and performer of such hits as ‘I Miss My Homies’.” He said he would be forming a tag team with his bodyguard, Swoll. Master P then came out and the supposed reporters applauded. Master P said he got into WCW after getting into a confrontation with wrestlers over rap music. He thanked Eric Bischoff for making it happen. Bischoff said Master P and the No Limit Soldiers have a very positive perspective to their music and entertainment.

Sorry but Gene Okerlund saying this is some of the funniest shit I’ve ever heard. Was this a tough deal to put together?

Was there creative talks about how it was all to go?

Did you ever think in a million years - the WCW audience would reject Master P?

The way Master P portrayed himself got some harsh criticism. He did act like he was a bigger star than anyone on the roster - and as much as that may had been true - does that make the brand and the real roster look weak?

Do you think there was a rejection to this from the fans because of this?

“From the Observer 6/21/99:

There is a saying about those who don't learn history, but in this case desperation takes precedence over lessons learned by history, and things are going to get worse before they get better. Actually, within WCW, there was more concern regarding the potential blow-up at some point with rapper Master P, figuring that when an incompetent promotion teams up with one of the wealthiest entertainers in the world that the resulting falling out is inevitable. Celebrity tie-ins have propelled companies to great heights in the past, and WCW did need new blood and a spark. So it's got a rap star and his entourage who will either be a success or failure within a few weeks, based on the gates at the New Orleans Superdome on 6/21 and the Georgia Dome on 7/5 if they can bring a new audience to the show.”

You’re not even a week into the deal and there’s people in the office talking to Dave about the potential blow-up. Was it a rocky start? Were there demands quickly? Where do you think this all came from?

Were the gates of those two shows completely dependent on Master P?

“Master P did have a track record as a drawing card for some pre-season NBA games with the Charlotte Hornets but he didn't seem to have that impressive a pop for his first two nights with WCW and even company insiders after two nights were saying it was beginning to look like a failure. He may draw new fans to wrestling live, at least when he's a novelty, but it's doubtful he's going to help TV ratings because he's a major niche celebrity as opposed to a household name. If he was that big a ratings draw he'd be all over television helping shows that draw a lot higher ratings than WCW Nitro.”

What do you think of that thought process - since he hadn’t been highly sought after by other shows - it would fail in pro wrestling?

“The only thing where his regular appearances may mean something is that WCW gets destroyed in the teenage demographic by WWF, and his appeal will be largely with that teenage group where WCW needs help the most. Of course we had our Mike Tyson moment at his press conference held before Nitro the next night (which was embarrassing because it looked so clearly staged when you have members of the press clapping) when P, who Bischoff tried to get over as a life long wrestling fan and not some guy who has come into wrestling to collect a paycheck, didn't even know the name of the guy he was doing his program with (Curt Hennig) and referred to him as the cowboy guy.”

How much of an issue is this right away that he’s not able to name the guy who’s going to be his main adversary?

What did Curt think of the idea? Was he happy or excited to be working with a celebrity like this or hesitant?

“Of course, WWF was trying to get Master P as well and Eric Bischoff claimed on television that they (in the personage of Shane McMahon) offered him three times the money WCW was paying him. This isn't wrestling anymore, and it's not soap opera either. It's become kissing ass to celebrities and the game of who uses who when it's all over for publicity and who blames who when the management on both sides have their inevitable blow-up. And when this round is over, the celebrities may realize that they were one year too late as this business is certainly no longer on the ascent. There is one huge difference between major celebrities and wrestlers that companies lose sight of. Wrestlers need wrestling not only for the job but for the ego recognition. Promoters know that and manipulate them, abuse them and underpay them accordingly. The few wrestlers around in a position of power because they don't need wrestling, and you know who they are, manipulate the system to where in many ways they do more harm than good to a profession that can't work at its most effective business wise without nearly total control of its employees.

When you incorporate people who absolutely don't need wrestling or give a rats ass about it except what money they can take from it while doing little work in return, the promoters, used to control, are on foreign soil. If nothing else, this will be perversely entertaining to watch but two years from now won't be looked back at as a bright time in wrestling's history.”

Go ahead Eric…have fun!

“The big show for WCW is not a PPV, but the 7/5 show at the Georgia Dome. If the combination of Master P and Dennis Rodman fails to sell a ton of tickets (and it may) or spark a sizeable television rating (which it won't), the die will already be cast.”

That show in particular is the one-year anniversary of the epic Goldberg - Hogan match. Over 40,000 people paid tickets to see that show…but first…

The 6/13 Great American Bash PPV in Baltimore:

It opened with Master P and his No Limit Soldiers coming out of a limo and meeting up with Curt Hennig. Hennig got in their face but asked for an autograph. Master P, who evidently hasn't been watching Nitro, gave him an autographed CD. Hennig broke it in P's face. Since there were about nine of them and one of him and he lived to tell about it without a scratch, whatever perceived danger that gang could do in the fantasy world was ruined before their first real angle. The least there should have been was a zillion police officers stopping them and some less than veiled threats.

What is the creative process with them and how it was all going to work? Was it a collab or are you sending Kevin Sullivan to tell Master P what he’s doing…

You’ve talked in the past about your issues with him about this night…but for those who haven’t heard the story please tell us what went on…

From the Observer:

“4. Konnan & Rey Misterio Jr. beat Curt Hennig & Bobby Duncum Jr. in 10:44. Master P and his entourage came out to ringside for this. It's not even as if they try and disguise that an angle is coming and make it look the slightest bit not contrived with that angle at the beginning of the show, and the guys only coming out for this one match rather than being special guests who just happened to be there enjoying the show. Hennig's entrance music should head up most of the Worst of lists but it's bound to become an all-time cult favorite and Hennig is going to become a cult babyface for his role in this feud if the powers that be don't see the future and cut him off ahead of time. Konnan & Misterio Jr. came out with gas masks on. Hennig must really be into this feud because his work is the best it's been in a long time. Master P hit Hennig early. Misterio Jr. did some hot moves early until being caught and worked on for most of the match. This was an old style match where they continually got heat on Misterio Jr., and the ref kept missing his tags to Konnan, so the heat built well. At least Master P was acting like he was into the match which added to the heat. Konnan finally hot tagged in, but Barry Windham came out of the crowd and KO'd him. Swoll, Master P's bodyguard who wants to be a pro wrestler (which is where this connection really stems from) who once played for the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League, then knocked Duncum Jr. down with a forearm and Misterio Jr. pinned him. Security that got all of P's entourage out of there for interfering in the match, while allowing Hennig, Windham and Duncum to destroy Konnan & Misterio Jr. in the ring after the match including hog-tying Misterio Jr. The angle wasn't bad, but it wasn't anything that anyone remembered five minutes after it was over. **¼ “

This is the high point of this whole thing isn’t it? Also pretty prolific of Meltzer to figure out the West Texas Rednecks would eventually become babyfaces in this…

“Nitro on 6/14 at the MCI Center in Washington, DC. They aired clips of the Master P press conference.

Konnan & Misterio Jr. beat Parka & Psicosis in 6:25 with Master P and the No Limit Soldiers hanging out. The really muscular NLS guy I believe is Chase Tatum, a Power Plant guy who is going to be with Konnan, Misterio Jr., Brad Armstrong and maybe one or two others in Master P's crew. Since they were in a featured spot, they all had their working shoes on. Konnan even did a tope. Bischoff started talking about how WCW was the innovators using Master P and brought up how the NWO was the most copied gimmick in wrestling history. I think the New Japan company vs. company angle Bischoff saw while on a trip there that he actually seems to think he came up with is the most copied angle in recent history. They played Hennig's song but Master P broke the CD.”

How did you decide the players to put into the No Limit Soldiers gimmick? I mean you got Konnan - which makes sense. Rey Misterio also makes sense. But then you got Chase Tatum and Brad Armstrong…seems quite random?

“Observer 6/28/99:

WCW was going to bring in the rap band "Naughty by Nature" to perform at the Georgia Dome Nitro, but Master P flexed his muscle and got it nixed. Nitro 6/21 at the Superdome in New Orleans drew 17,249, which was 15,593 paying $346,424. Realistically they were going to draw about 13-14,000 paid without all the late local push by Master P. So much for him coming in and selling out the Dome. It wasn't totally evident on TV because they had a lot of plants at ringside and in a section dancing that the cameras focused on while he was out there, but the fans didn't pop for him live and his segments were not only awful, which was no surprise, but they also weren't over in the least to the predominately-white WCW audience.

Master P came out and sang and the less said about that the better.

They did an angle where it was Master P's brother's birthday. Konnan & Misterio Jr. weren't even out there to get the rub although it was just as well they weren't because this was an incredibly bad angle. Hennig came out, and now is talking like a Texan. Master P still hasn't figured out his name and just knows he's a Cowboy. He gave P's brother a cowboy hat, which he stomped into the ground and they threw the birthday cake on Hennig. They couldn't even get that right.”

CAKE! ERIC! CAKE!

“Then in a tag title match, Konnan & Misterio Jr. beat Page & Bigelow & Kanyon via DQ in 12:36. They explained that since Page's team has the belts that all three can tag in. While this was going on, The No Limit Soldiers (Chase Tatum & Brad Armstrong & Swole) were in Konnan's corner and never lifted a finger to stop these unfair odds. It was bad enough seeing Misterio Jr. in the ring with any of those tall guys. The Windhams, Hennig and Duncum all ran in for the DQ and then Master P and more of the No Limit Soldiers along with Benoit & Saturn all showed up and had a wild brawl.”

My goodness Eric what in the hell is this all mess? Is this something right away you’re just like…fuck this is a mess and what can we do to make it not that bad - so to speak?

From the Torch 7/3/99:

There were widespread reports last week that Master P demanded for himself and his entourage separate catering from the usual WCW food, a different brand of bottled water than WCW usually offers, and M&Ms with yellow ones removed. (The M&M gimmick was originally used by rock band Van Halen in their early days as a way to see if the promoters were paying attention to their contract.) Some in WCW insist those reports are false, saying all Master P requested was a separate dressing room, something supplied to all outside celebrities. Possibly even more damaging to P’s WCW relationship is that two of his bodyguards were detained at an airport for carrying concealed weapons. Friends of P are saying that it wasn’t a big deal because they had permits for the weapons, they were not loaded, and they were disassembled. However, WCW is not thrilled with the negative publicity the arrests garnered. P is very unpopular with most wrestlers and many are speculating he and WCW will part ways after the July 5 Georgia Dome show, assuming he even appears there. Bischoff may have believed P was more of a crossover rap star in that he appealed to both black and white audiences. In reality, P is considered to be popular with mostly a regional black audience.

What say you Eric to this report in the Torch? Were those demands he had made?

Did you expect this to turn into this so quickly?

“Nitro 6/28/99:

There was no mention of Master P who had been pushed heavily the last two weeks on Nitro with little benefit to WCW. He may never be on WCW TV again. The entire “No Limit Soldiers” PPV match was acknowledged only once and Master P and Swoll were not mentioned. It was the only time Konnan and Rey Mysterio Jr. were mentioned.

Tony and Bobby introduced the “I Hate Rap” video. Hennig sang the lead, Kendall was on bass, Duncum on lead guitar, and Barry played drums. Not a lot to the lyrics, but a funny video. Master P has been good for something—getting Curt Hennig over.”

I mean out of everything that is the one thing that came out of this - but does the call to bring down talking about Master P come from Turner, your decision, walk us through this.

“Observer 7/5/99:

Does it seem like everything is falling apart? Well, then why should this week be any different from any other. The Master P deal has turned into a colossal joke and may have already fallen apart. Last week in New Orleans, Master P kept making demands on WCW for more limo's and more perks, trying to negotiate contracts (apparently Swole signed a huge money contract and Eric Bischoff actually believed the guy used to work for New Japan Pro Wrestling although reports since he worked one show this past week were that he wasn't mad for a newcomer), showing less than zero respect for Bischoff and then the next morning, one of his bodyguards was arrested at the airport for carrying a gun. There must have been a blow-up because by late week, it was said that both his and Dennis Rodman's appearances for 7/5 at the Georgia Dome were in jeopardy. Both were still being advertised as of 6/29 but nobody seemed to know if they would appear or not. Actually, the latest inside word was that P was through but that Swole was at Nitro on 6/28 distancing himself from P since he was the one who was the real wrestling fan out of the group.”

Wow Eric. First off, did you know about Swole’s past and did you really buy the bill of goods of Swole of being a worker?

Was this something that just added to your frustration mentally in this position?”

“There was also talk of Snoop Dog and Naughty by Nature appearing at the Georgia Dome on 7/5, but the latter was nixed by Master P and the former was aligned with Master P so they're probably both out.”

Was there talk of this? Did P step in? Was it starting to be a realization that this could hurt you with other celebrities?

If you could point to one thing - in that month - that doomed this relationship - what would it be?

From the Torch 7/10/99:

Master P and WCW aren’t on good terms, and originally he was scheduled to be at the Georgia Dome Nitro, but his absence this week doesn’t mean the No Limit Soldiers gimmick will be dropped. Master P was not ever scheduled to be a weekly presence (especially at the per appearance price of $200,000). He was just supposed to help launch the “No Limit Soldiers” gimmick.

The No Limit Soldiers have certainly been toned down now that it’s evident Master P won’t provide much of a ratings rub for the group. The PPV match was barely pushed and the participants in the eight–man tag match weren’t ever completely listed. Master P is not expected to be ringside at the PPV. If he’s not, it’s the strongest indication that his relationship with WCW may be over. Master P’s real–life friend Swoll is staying around and is locked into a one–year contract.

This is a big spot for a lot of people to be working with a celebrity of this nature…Were the wrestlers disappointed? Was anyone upset?

“Observer 7/12/99:

There are reports that Swole signed a one-year contract for $400,000, which is said to be not all that much less than Jericho was offered. There also are reports that Master P was getting $200,000 per appearance on Nitro. Has the world gone nuts? Master P also got WCW to sign Chase Tatum and Teddy "The Tank" Reade to one year deals”

We’ve already discussed Swole’s contract - but is that accurate as well about Tatum and Reade?

The comparison to Jericho - Jericho wanted to leave and didn’t want to be there - but Jericho at $400k offer compared to Swole getting $350k with a $50k signing bonus…makes it seem like the money was a bit out of whack…

‘Nitro 7/5/99:

Konnan & Misterio Jr. beat Regal & Finlay in 2:33 via DQ when the Cowboys interfered. Konnan & Misterio Jr. were supposed to win first before the run-in, but the match got cut so many times it wound up the way it was. The Cowboys also laid out Swole, who was wearing a bandanna over his head so he looked like a taller version of Mustafa, Chase Tatum and B.A. (Brad Armstrong). The cameras focused on Hennig, who unfortunately, was trying to get heat on Swole who didn't really know what he was doing and Hennig seemingly was in a conversation with him in the corner trying to explain it was time to bump, and eventually he did.

Hennig did a concert. Duncum & Windhams are now known as the West Texas Rednecks. A lot of fans cheered when they asked if there were any rednecks in the crowd. When they asked if people hated rap, there were both a lot of cheers and a lot of boos. Duncum and even more so Hennig & Kendall Windham playing guitar made Ernest Miller's kickboxing match look real. This is a big cult deal to a lot of people but it was heavily booed at the finish.”

I know the West Texas Rednecks are always looked back on as this amazing thing it really is the best that it came out of it…but did it help anyone in the long run?

“Observer 7/19/99:

Bash at the Beach 99:

4. Konnan & Rey Misterio Jr. & Swole & B.A. won an elimination match over Curt Hennig & Barry Windham & Kendall Windham & Bobby Duncum Jr. in 15:00. Both teams got 50-50 reactions.

The song is getting Hennig's ring entrance over big and making him a pretty big star. There were people in the crowd singing the song during the entrance but it isn't like everyone is doing it yet.

It really killed the No Limit Soldiers, because Konnan, even playing home town boy and announced from Miami (which is actually where he grew up) instead of Mexico City, got way less of a reaction to his ring entrance than usual. This was probably the second best match on the show and it was still a mess in many ways. Huge Teddy Reade was given the name 4x4. The eliminations and the booking were a mess, although from the booking it appears they were designing the match to put the Cowboys over as the faces since they were the ones with the disadvantage and thus put in the face underdog position. Swole pinned Duncum Jr. first in 6:26 after Misterio Jr. delivered a legdrop from the apron back in.

This was not the planned finish but things got really messed up between Duncum and Swole and he just told Swole to pin him. No matter what name he goes by and what gimmick he uses, B.A. is still a great wrestler in the ring and has no charisma. He and Hennig did some good wrestling ending when Hennig pinned him in 9:07 after the fisherman suplex. Konnan pinned Kendall Windham in 10:52 with a cradle after Misterio Jr. hit him with a springboard dropkick.

The next elimination was really weird. The idea appeared to be Konnan and Barry to both be counted out. Windham was outside the ring. Konnan was appearing to tire. Chase Tatum then aggressively jumped on Windham and was pounding him to the back. Konnan seemingly just walked to the back for absolutely no reason and was counted out. He never even returned for the finish winners celebration, which may indicate punishment and fallout over the USA Today quotes. This left Hennig alone against Misterio Jr. & Swole. Before it got going, Barry Windham ran back out and was chased away by Tatum. It ended with Misterio Jr. jumping off Swole's shoulders with a splash onto Hennig for the pin at 15:00. *½”

What an absolute mess Eric. Is that just the perfect way to sum all of this up?

Observer 8/2/99:

“Master P is officially gone. Konnan and Misterio Jr. have been pulled out of the No Limit Soldiers which will now become a jobber group. There is some attempt to pull Brad Armstrong out of the Soldiers and group him with Misterio Jr., Konnan and Eddie Guerrero (the original plan was for Guerrero to quickly turn on Misterio Jr. but since they were so hot together as a team in Moline, perhaps that won't happen as quickly)”

What was the absolute end of Master P? Was there a conversation? Were there attorneys involved?

Swoll is released at the end of September and that’s it. Was there a ton of missed opportunity here? Is this one of the biggest wastes of money in WCW’s history?

What could it have been, do you think?

Was it a WCW issue or a Master P issue?

P has said in the past that he made a couple million dollars for this…that’s not true right?