STW - Hogan Must Return: WWE 2002-03 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Welcome to Something to Wrestle with…. Bruce Prichard! Bruce what’s going on man how are you?

This week we’re talking all things Hulk Hogan from 2002-2003. A lot to talk about including returning to the company after 9 years, WrestleMania X8 vs The Rock and turning face, winning the World Title for the last time, motorcycle miscues, Hogan’s autobiography, Hogan vs McMahon and of course Mr. America!

We talked a lot about Hogan’s 2002 return to the WWF in our No Way Out 02 and WrestleMania X8 episodes earlier this year, but I’m curious how often was it discussed (or not) to bring Hogan back before 2002?

There’s always been reports about when Hulk’s contract with WCW would be coming up that he would always talk about going back to the WWF. Was that subject ever broached to your knowledge?

Was Vince in contact with him much over the 9 years he was away?

In 2002, Hogan was 48 years old, why did Vince now think it would be good business to have Hogan in the company? Especially after years of calling him old on TV with stuff like the “Huckster” and “Age in the Cage”?

Did Hulk ever discuss those types of things with Vince or did he understand it was just business?

Is anyone against bringing Hogan back, whether it be someone in the office or in the locker room?

Hogan of course returns at No Way Out 2002 in Milwaukee, along with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall to rehash the nWo from 1996 in WCW, here in the WWF. The memorable moment of course being the meeting with the Rock backstage, where he makes fun of all the nWo members.

They then get their revenge one night later on Raw in Chicago, as essentially we have attempted murder on our TV screens Bruce!

Hogan whacks Rock in the back of the head with a fucking hammer, then as they’re gonna take away Rock in an ambulance, the nWo take over it, wrap chains around it - and Hogan drives a goddam 18-wheeler into the side of it!

Before all of this, Rock & Hogan had just an amazing in-ring confrontation to set up the match - Hogan calling Rock “the flavor of the month” and that he wasn’t in his league, before accepting Rock’s challenge.

Did we really need all this over the top activity to set up this dream match?

Hogan actually has his first match back at a house show in Tampa on March 1st, defeating Rikishi in the main event. Is this just to get the ring rust off Hogan and they’re in his hometown of Tampa?

The Rock makes a miraculous recovery and is back on March 7th on Smackdown - and then on the go-home Raw on March 11th - we’ve got all of the nWo - Hogan, Nash and Hall in the ring and they defeated Rock & Austin in the handicap match main event.

Should we not be saving Hogan’s first televised match to be for WrestleMania itself and not the go-home show?

Rock and Hogan in Toronto for WrestleMania is of course incredible.

The crowd in particular makes the match even better where they are overwhelmingly in favor of Hogan.

Where does this rank for you Bruce in terms of top WrestleMania moments?

The next night on Raw is another amazing moment, as we’re still in Canada, in Montreal and the crowd goes BANANA for Hogan.

He receives a standing ovation for what feels like about 10 minutes at the beginning of the show.

Hogan & Rock then defeated Hall & Nash via count-out in the main event.

It’s reported that just before WrestleMania, Vince sent Hogan back to Florida from Toronto on the WWF jet to pick up his old red & yellow gear, and originally was gonna have him appear on Raw the night after Mania in the classic Hogan gear.

But Hogan doesn’t go back to the red and yellow look until 2 weeks later, on the April 4th Smackdown in Rochester, NY. Did Vince just keep going back and forth on whether he wanted Hogan in the classic colors associated with the Hulkster?

Hogan also starts using Jimi Hendrix’s Voodoo Child theme from this point on. Is this a Hogan request? Was anyone lobbying for him to use Real American instead?

Hogan of course wins the Undisputed Title from HHH at Backlash in Kansas City a few weeks after this.

How long before the show was it decided Hogan was gonna win the title?

Hogan vs the Undertaker is announced the next night on Raw for the Judgment Day PPV IN Nashville in May for the Undisputed title.

Is it known straight away this is just gonna be a short 1-month run for the Hulkster here?

Meltzer would say a few months later:

“Hogan was getting such huge pops and riding a wave of nostalgia and they confused the pops with business, so HHH only lasted a few weeks as champion. That was a very controversial call in that the company was very much divided and McMahon had waffled back-and-forth until changing his mind the day of the event. Those who were against it, feeling Hogan may get great pops, but him getting the belt would be a disaster because of the age factor, proved prophetic as all facets of business collapsed as soon as he got the belt.

So Hogan's reign was one month, and went to Undertaker. Almost nobody was against that one, except Hogan, who tried to lobby Vince the day of the show to change his mind, and failed. Ultimately, that was even worse, because they still had an old champion that wasn't going to have good matches, but at least Hogan gave the illusion of being a success to the public because of the crowd pops that he was over.”

In the build-up to the Taker match there’s a famous and awkward snafu on Raw where Hogan is trying for seemingly 5 minutes to try and start up Taker’s motorcycle and chase him up the ramp, where they would then cut to a pre tape of Hogan riding the bike backstage.

Hogan eventually gets off the bike and just runs up the ramp through the curtain to come after Taker.

But I think they realize he needs to actually be on the bike before they can play the pre tape, so after a couple more minutes Hogan comes back out for the bike and eventually gets it going.

Are you sitting in gorilla Bruce when all this is going on? Is everyone in the back going crazy or just trying to see the funny side of it?

Before Judgment Day…out of all the episodes in Raw’s history…Hogan and Ric Flair only faced off once. It was barely promoted…but in Toronto…the owner of Raw Flair would challenge Hogan for the title. Could this had meant more with a build or it was what it was?

Hulk hulks up and the crowd goes BANANA - but you can tell there’s something off at the end. Flair is looking towards the back - they’re talking to each other in the ring - Hogan finally shoots off Flair for the big boot and the leg drop and everyone is literally looking towards the entrance ramp - Hogan, Flair, even Charles Robinson - when X-Pac comes sprinting down and breaks up the pin and it’s a whole schmozz until Austin comes out and hits Flair with a stunner and Hogan gets the win. Do you remember any of this and the mess that it was?

Hogan vs Undertaker at Judgment Day had what JR might say, ‘bowling shoe ugly’ moments in the match, including an awkward looking chokeslam to end the match and Taker is now the champion.

At King of the Ring in Columbus on June 23, Hogan loses cleanly to Kurt Angle and the ankle lock. And is probably Hogan’s best actual wrestling match of his run here.

Were there ever any problems with getting Hogan to do jobs during this run? He’s lost to Rock, Taker and Angle on PPV. Plus he also lost to HHH on Smackdown.

How quickly did it feel like the bloom was off the rose for Hogan? Did Hulk understand his role here being the guy to help elevate the younger talent?

On the 4th of July airing of Smackdown - Hulk Hogan & Edge defeated Billy & Chuck to win the tag team titles. This is Hogan’s first time as tag champion and what a moment. As it was the 4th of July, Hogan went back to the Real American theme song for this night too. Edge has pointed out in the past how big a moment it was for him - you could feel it in the building that night couldn’t you?

The reign is short lived and Hogan & Edge lose the belts to the Un-Americans - Christian & Lance Storm at Vengeance on July 21 in Detroit.

Was there more here to accomplish do you think or was it the perfect little couple week story?

Hogan was heavily advertised for WWE’s first show in Australia in August after 16 years away. But instead Hogan is written off TV just before this in a brutal loss to Brock Lesnar on Smackdown from Richmond.

This visual of a bloody Hogan passing out in a bearhug to Brock, and then Brock wiping Hogan’s blood on his chest is just amazing.

Observer:

“The Smackdown destruction of Hogan by Lesnar was his swansong for now. As late as the morning of 8/4, it wasn't finalized whether or not he would do an injury angle for Lesnar, although he was no doubt losing the match under any circumstances. Hogan had asked for time off due to his knee and back problems worsening.

Exactly when he comes back is unclear, as there has been talk of him being brought back in a few weeks, or in a few months. Once they had finalized the angle, they had asked Hogan to go to Australia to make a live appearance but not wrestle. Hogan asked off the shot because of the pain he'd be in on a 20-hour long flight and wanting to spend his 49th birthday (the next day) with his family.”

Do you remember this being the reasons for Hogan leaving , or were perhaps creative and financial disputes part of the reason too?

Was this just a ticking time bomb waiting to happen really?

Hogan’s autobiography was due to come out in the fall of 02 and there’s lots of issues:

Observer:

“Here’s the situation with Hogan and his book and there definitely have been problems. The book was edited by Chris Sader from WWE Confidential to make sure there were no glaring inaccuracies such as wrong years or places for matches.

From someone who has read the current version of the manuscript, the book is pretty good, but it rushes through far too much history in too short of a period of time. It has the expected Hogan spins on history, but nothing was said to be as bad as him drawing 200,000 fans Budokan. After the book was edited for fact checking, copies were sent to Jim Ross, Vince and Linda McMahon. Copies were not sent to Hogan. Linda complained to the editors (unknown at first to Hogan) that the book was boring. She wanted Hogan to admit more to his drug use and

talk about issues like marital infidelity and more subjects like that. She also complained that Hogan didn’t give Vince enough credit for all his success. Hogan eventually did find out about this and called Vince, telling him he omitted those stories because he didn’t want to write a controversial book, and thought if he wrote about those subjects, stores like Walmart and Target wouldn’t want to carry it (I know, that’s a lame excuse, no doubt the real reason is he didn’t want to address those subjects). He also talked about why, if Vince wanted him to do so, why Vince himself hasn’t come clean in more detail on several similar type issues. The book ends up not dealing at all with Hogan’s recreational drug history or talking about issues like marital infidelity. Not sure how steroids are or aren’t addressed, but obviously that subject won’t be addressed to the satisfaction of anyone with a brain.”

Let’s stop right there Bruce - were books always this big an issue or was that market expanded after the early success of Foley…it was hard not for it to be something the company and talent would disagree on?

“The book ends up with Hogan, as a compromise, crediting Vince far more for his success than he wanted to. Hogan’s problems regarding the book were when he found out Vince, Linda and JR had received and made suggestions to change the manuscript before he had even seen the manuscript. In addition, Hogan wanted to spend November doing a full-time book promotional tour with media appearances all over the country and book signing. Vince wanted Hogan to return to TV and push the book more on television, and do book signings around his TV schedule.

At this point, the plan is for Hogan to be on TV in some form at the time the book comes out. However, Hogan did on 10/16 meet with Simon & Schuster about the publicity issues as well as his problems with the final content of the book”

This is classic Vince - Hogan right? One side thinks the other side isn’t doing what they should be doing, etc.

Meltzer also talks about Hogan vs Lesnar being the original plan for Survivor Series:

“The original plan for the Survivor Series main event was Lesnar vs. Hogan. Hogan refused to put Lesnar over a second time and they had a meeting where the two leading candidates to put Lesnar over ended up being Show and Benoit. When Vince panics, they go with size. I guess the idea of the visual of Lesnar doing power moves to Show may make up for the fact the two on paper won’t be able to do the quality of match people expect out of main events.

At one point, Edge was the back-up plan if Hogan wouldn’t do the job (although there were those internally against the Hogan idea from the start feeling there was no need for a bad PPV match since Hogan would never put him over as strongly the second time).

Vince, at the meeting where they were discussing where to go, called Hogan selfish for refusing to put Lesnar over.”

Bruce - is this what happened? Were you in that meeting? Did you agree that Brock should go over Hogan again on pay-per-view?

Then a week later:

“Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon have had what has been described as almost a total split, just as Hogan’s book that both sides have had major disagreements on was scheduled to be released.

The book issues, regarding each side’s different opinion of what the book should contain and the McMahons wanting Hogan to have given Vince more credit than he gave him for his success in the 80s. But the split came almost completely on booking differences.

Hogan had not wanted to come back, but a few weeks ago agreed to come back to lead into the main event at Survivor Series against Brock Lesnar. The comeback that had been strongly teased on television since August when Hogan left, with an injury at the hands of Lesnar as the storyline reason.

Just days before Hogan was scheduled to make his return, he backed out of the deal, apparently because he refused to do a second job for Lesnar. But even before that, Hogan had discussed with friends and business associates about not going back, citing problems with book content, and trying to put together either a U.S. farewell tour for next year after his WWE contract expired in late January, or doing a series of PPV shows from Japan broadcast into the U.S. where he’d work major matches.

Internally, this has been compared, as far as McMahon’s reactions, as similar to the Austin break-up, but a non-public version of it. The timing, with Hogan’s autobiography produced by WWE being released on 11/19, would have made a public break-up or a total split impossible at this point.

WWE kept his name out after he left by mentioning Lesnar had injured him and pushing his DVD hard, as a way to keep his name out and build for the expected return program.

Anything but a strong showing from a book by Hulk Hogan, who would still be considered the biggest name in wrestling to the age group that controls the publishing industry, and the doctrine in that world that wrestling fans can’t read may start to return.”

I enjoy Meltzer being worried about wrestling fans being shown that they can’t read … but what a god damn mess this is isn’t it?

“The original plan given to Hogan by Vince, besides doing the job for Lesnar first at Survivor Series, would have also included the long-talked about singles match with Vince at the Royal Rumble on 1/19 in Boston. Hogan’s contract expired before Wrestlemania, so nothing past the Rumble was said to have been decided upon for him by creative. Hogan pulled out two weeks ago, with Vince telling the story that Hogan refused to come back unless he was given the title.

It was no surprise inside that the job issue was going to come up with a Hogan-Lesnar rematch because Hogan put him over so strong the first time as we’d written here before any of this went down. There was also no way the company was going to have Hogan beat Lesnar at this point in time and there is also the irony of it being similar to one of the reasons for the explosion leading to Austin’s exile. While it’s the natural match for Hogan to come back with, everyone would have benefitted more by bringing him back on Raw, which needs more star power. Admittedly that would be a stop-gap measure and no answer, but a Hogan-Vince program at this point would have been more needed on Raw than Smackdown.”

It almost sounds like this is a split of epic proportions from these two - they just needed time to cool off didn’t they?

Do you remember when the talks picked back up again?

Was this a Vince reaching out to Hulk or Hulk reaching out to Vince?

Who’s idea was Hogan - Vince?

Hogan ends up coming back rather quickly after all this - he’s back on the Smackdown in Albany, right after the 2003 Royal Rumble.

Hogan gets a long standing ovation from the crowd, and lays out Vince to set up their match at WrestleMania 19.

Was Vince-Hogan a long term plan for Mania in 2003 when Hogan originally came back in 2002?

But before then we’re gonna have Rock-Hogan II at No Way Out in Montreal on February 23rd. Rock is also just returning and is now firmly established as a heel so there’s not gonna be any qualms about Rock getting booed this time.

The No Way Out match ends with a screwy finish using Sylvan Grenier as the heel referee who gives Rock a chair tonised on Hogan when Vince is causing the distraction.

Vince then takes off his shirt to reveal a “Hulkamania Sucks” t-shirt underneath. He tears that off and throws it in a bloody Hogan’s face to end the PPV. What did you think of the rematch? Do you think it lived up to the hype?

This of course gets us to WrestleMania 19 in Seattle - they bill it as “20 years in the Making” for Hogan vs McMahon in a street fight.

Hogan’s career is on the line, but he triumphs over evil. in the end

It’s a fun match, and a great story, including the return of Roddy Piper to the company as well.

After Mania, Vince would force Hogan to sit out the rest of his contract in the storyline. Then we see for a few weeks “Mr America is Coming” vignettes on Smackdown.

Where did this come from? I mean the idea of Hogan winning to keep his career going at Mania and then right after Vince forces him to sit out - does it make sense?

Mr. America debuts on Smackdown on May 1st from Manchester, New Hampshire. He’s the guest on Piper’s Pit, apparently signed by Stephanie “sight unseen” and signed to an “iron clad contract”, meaning Vince can’t fire Mr. America.

He’s using the Real American theme song and wearing a blue mask and blue tights.

Of course it’s obvious it’s Hogan but we’re playing it like up the whole Dusty Rhodes/Midnight Rider gimmicks from Florida in the 80s.

I know you were heavy into the creation of this Mr America angle Bruce, how did it all get planned out, was this all booked before WrestleMania?

How hard was it to get Vince on board with the idea?

We end up with a Mr America vs Roddy Piper

match at Judgment Day in May, which thankfully is a short one:

Observer:

“Mr. America pinned Roddy Piper in 4:58. Well, Hogan can say that in the end, he got to pin Piper in the WWE. Being that it was Charlotte, Hogan did get noticeable boos and his pop wasn’t nearly what it would have been anywhere else, but still got far more cheers. Piper actually wore the t-shirt listing the names of the dead wrestlers on his back. They were very careful not to shoot the back of it. Sean O’Haire kept interfering. Piper actually jumped off the apron with a double sledge, which was more than Hogan did. Crowd was dead except for the easy spots like the count to ten punches in the corner and wiggling the hand while caught in the sleeper.

It was more like a cartoon match. Hogan hulked up and Vince McMahon came out. He gave O’Haire a pipe. O’Haire went to hit Hogan, but instead hit Piper. Hogan did the legdrop. Zach Gowen, whom Hogan brought out at the start of the match, then tackled Vince as he tried to interfere in the pin. DUD”

Over the next few weeks on Smackdown, Vince is doing all he can to prove Mr. America is Hulk Hogan.

The most memorable and hilarious segment is probably when he had Mr America do a lie detector test in the ring, but Mr America passes with flying colors.

Vince then sits in the chair to prove he can pass the test too.

Mr America asks him “are you the biggest asshole on god's green earth?”

Vince says no and we get the buzzer that he’s lying.

“Are you a sick perverted power hungry freak?” gets the same response when Vince says no and Vince freaks out as he’s made to sound worse and worse by each question.

We should mention at the end of the Smackdown tapings each week, Mr. America would lift his mask up to show the crowd he was Hogan and motion the fans to “sshhhh” about it.

Including at Mr. America’s final TV appearance on the June 26 Smackdown from MSG as Mr America, Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle lost to The Big Show and Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin.

The week after Vince then shows the off-air footage of Hogan showing his face, and was able to use this as the storyline reason for firing Me America/Hulk Hogan from WWE.

But in reality, Hulk had quit. You’ve told us a bit briefly about it before Bruce, but what were the plans for Mr. America gonna be going forward into the July PPV?

And you’ve talked about Hulk saying the following to Vince in their falling out:

“The only person that knows how to write for Hulk Hogan now is Bruce Prichard, and you don’t get it anymore”

Was there any doubt in your mind Hogan would be back sooner rather than later?

Observer 7/7/03:

“Hulk Hogan officially made public that he was parting ways with WWE once again on 6/30 in an interview that morning on the Bubba the Love Sponge show.

The split doesn’t appear to be an angle, but nothing can be ruled out absolutely, given Hogan’s track record in WCW. Hogan quit after the Smackdown tapings on 6/24 in Madison Square Garden. Hogan, who from all accounts, tore down the house live, and basically on his own did the Hogan posing routine after the TV taping ended for several minutes, was unhappy about how creative was handling the Mr. America character. He had come off losing to Vince McMahon in the arm wrestling match that didn’t seen to serve a purpose, and then losing to Big Show’s choke slam in the six-man tag, which was to set up Show for Zach Gowen and Stephanie McMahon.

There had been talk that the booking plan for Mr. America had been for him to beat Vince McMahon in a hair vs mask match on 7/27 at the Vengeance PPV in Denver, although that has not been confirmed by anyone who would know other than Vince had talked about it.

Hogan, who turns 50 next month, had been working without a signed contract. He had an agreement with McMahon that this program would go as long as both were happy. He did sign an intellectual property release to allow them to use his likeness and sell merchandise. It had been known that Hogan was frustrated over things being scripted too tightly, as many of the veterans have been, and removing a lot of the impromptu nature of the working of matches and interviews. One specific point, although this clearly wasn’t the deal breaker, which has already been reported, was that at the beginning of the six-man at MSG, when fans were chanting his name, normal wrestling for babyfaces would be to tease the audience and then tag in the guy they are chanting for. But the entire match was laid out, and the lay-out didn’t call for him to tag in at that time.”

Vince wanted to shave his head for such a long time didn’t he?

“In addition, with business being weak, money was down, and he certainly wasn’t making what he made for his comeback last year, let alone the kind of money he was used to making during the glory days of WCW. While with WCW, Hogan would earn anywhere from $600,000 to in excess of $1.5 million (for his match with Sting at Starrcade ‘97) per PPV show.

It was said he was frustrated the company didn’t do more with the Mr. America character, although until the past two weeks, when the focus of Smackdown shifted from Hogan to Zach

Gowen and Stephanie McMahon as Vince’s main adversaries, he was the focal point of nearly every Smackdown episode. His views on the sometimes raunchy nature of the storylines have been well known, but again, many share them, and that also on its own wouldn’t figure to be a deal breaker. While Hogan’s instincts about when to bail and when to return have been for the most part on the money over the past several years, it is a surprise that he’d leave before a PPV event he was scheduled for a major win in what, with McMahon involved, would be the match getting the lion’s share of the television build-up. It also has to be pointed out that the timing of his leaving was only a few weeks after the Wrestlemania checks came in. Hogan was unhappy last year over his payoff since he was used to such a ridiculous percentage from his WCW days, and that was a show he was in the main event slot that did 850,000 buys.

This year, while the show was built around his match, the main event money was likely split six ways and the show only did about 555,000 buys based on the latest figures, so payoffs were more along the lines of the strong Rumbles, SummerSlams and super hot attraction shows than the much higher expected Mania payoff level.

At this point, it is clearly the most beneficial thing for Hogan to drop in for a few months, and get out before people got tired of him. The Mr. America gimmick was given the big push, and he had clearly not overstayed his welcome.”

Was it cash? Was it creative? Was it both? How did this all go down?

Was there more to do with Mr. America at this point or did you all get the feeling he was ready to go and wanted to make sure you got what you could out of him before the hammer fell?

Later in 2003, Hogan appeared for New Japan and defeated Masahiro Chono in the Tokyo Dome.

TNA also taped an angle there, with Jeff Jarrett attacking Hogan with the guitar and bloodying him.

It was to apparently set up Hogan vs Jarrett at the first 3-hour TNA PPV. But Hogan ended up not going to TNA at this time, using knee and hip problems as the reason.

Was Vince pissed or hot about this?

Did you ever see Hogan facing Jeff actually happening?

We all know that eventually Hogan would return in 2005 to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.