Grilling JR - No Mercy 2002 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

We’re back with the voice of professional wrestling - the Hall of Famer himself - Good Ol JR! Jim how are you man?

Jim - the feedback on our two most recent episodes - Eddie Guerrero & Ask JR Anything - has been off the charts. Have you seen the same thing Jim?

Today we’re going back to our journey through 20 years ago in 2002, with the WWE No Mercy PPV.

We last looked at SummerSlam 2002, where Shawn Michaels returned to defeat HHH, and Brock Lesnar became the youngest WWE Champion by defeating The Rock. This really is the dawning of the Brock Lesnar era isn’t it.

Rock goes away after SummerSlam, and some of the important things on Raw at MSG the next night feature the Hardcore title being unified with the Intercontiental title when RVD beats Tommy Dreamer. So in just one months time the WWE merged the European & Hardcore title with the IC. This was more than necessary wasn’t it?

Also it’s announced that Brock was signed exclusively to SmackDown - what did you think of the move to have Brock just on SmackDown?

There’s also a lot going on with the UnAmericans. From the Observer:

“UnAmericans threatened to burn the flag. Ross and Lawler seemed like the only two in the building taking their threat seriously. Heard they were worried about security going out there for the angle. They first played Kane's music, but he never came out. Booker & Goldust went to make the save, but they were unsuccessful and got beaten down. Then Kane, looking different, made the save. Kane choke slammed everyone, leading to him doing a Kaneroonie. There was something I couldn't understand about mood and seriousness when you go from saving the American flag in New York to doing a spinneroonie.

There was definite conflict between McMahon and the UnAmericans regarding the angle at MSG. It wasn't as much that they didn't want to do the burning the flag angle (since they weren't going to burn it anyway), but wanted proper security. Others took it as that they were lucky to be put in a potential heat getting angle and they're wary of it getting too much heat, and that heels should strive for the most heat possible and they should

look at this as their big opportunity.”

JR - this sounds like a battle over creative that would continue. What did you think of the idea of burning the flag in New York - when we’re not even a year removed from 9/11?

Undertaker gets moved to Smackdown as now without Rock and Hogan leaving that brand needed some star power did it not?

In response to Raw now longer having a world championship, Eric Bischoff rehashes the old WCW Big Gold belt, and simply crowns HHH as the new World Heavyweight Champion for Raw.

Wouldn’t a tournament of some kind be a better way to decide who would be the “first Raw World Champion”, building up to the finals at a PPV?

Billy & Chuck have their commitment ceremony on Smackdown, which ends up with Bischoff being revealed as the priest conducting the ceremony when he takes off his mask in a memorable moment. Plus he sends Rosey & Jamal out to beat up Billy & Chuck, and even Stephanie is hit with a Samoan Drop. There was a lot of bad creative back in 02 wasn’t there?

Speaking of bad creative…they also seem to be focusing more on silly segments such as the “HLA” stuff while Raw is also drawing its lowest ratings in over 4 years in the fall of 2002, and of course back then there were two wrestling shows on a Monday night, so the wrestling fans have quickly left in droves in the 18 months since WCW closed. Were you shocked how quickly WCW fans left watching the business?

William Regal is put with the Un-Americans:

“Regarding the heat with the UnAmericans as a whole, it's a bunch of small things. Vince wanted Test, Christian and Storm to all dress the same and look the same like an 80s WWF tag team would have done. He also wanted them to work a more heelish style (less big offensive moves, mainly punches and kicks and big bumps for the faces' comeback). The day after SummerSlam, when Vince was already in a bad mood over the situation with Rock, he told Test and Christian that he wanted all three to start wearing similar tights and look the same. He told them that since Lance can't grow hair like theirs in one week, that they needed to cut their hair like Lance. Anyway, as you can see, neither did it. There were also minor problems over the incident that night in MSG when they wanted more security for their cars because of the flag burning angle. There has been more than one person in the office remark (and at least one to them directly) that they are guys because of their gimmick who have been given a golden opportunity and that the idea they didn't want to get too much heat (as it's perceived internally) is not a good sign. Also, there was an issue with some of the older agents, and if you understand their background and what wrestling was in their heelish heydays, you would understand where they were coming from whether you'd agree or not, didn't exactly like the idea of Test getting the elective cosmetic surgery in the middle of a pushed program that caused him to miss a few weeks (didn't miss any TV, but couldn't wrestle on TV one week). There are no plans to break them up and they likely put Regal there to serve as a group leader”

Are you having to deal with this a lot? Were these talent relations issues or issues with the creative team?

Whereas Smackdown is starting to feel more focused on the wrestling - and good wrestling - featuring the “Smackdown 6” - Edge, Mysterio, Benoit, Angle, Eddie and Chavo Guerrero, a lot to do with Paul Heyman’s writing of the show but House show attendance is down to half of what it was before the brand split. In March 2002 the average was 8,565 per show but now it’s an average of 4,170 per show. How quickly does that land on your radar? Was there a plan to fix it?

A quick run down of the main highlights from the Unforgiven PPV from Los Angeles:

HHH defeated RVD to keep the World title. Trish defeated Molly Holly to win the Women’s Title. Rosey & Jamal defeated Billy & Chuck, with the stipulation that Stephanie would have to perform “HLA” if Rosey & Jamal won. The “ugly lesbian” they brought out ended up being Rikishi who took off his mask, beat up Bischoff and gave him the stink face. Brock Lesnar and Undertaker go to a double DQ in the main event for the WWE Title - this is to set up Taker vs Brock in the Hell in a Cell for No Mercy.

The Unforgiven buyrate is 300,000 and is not a memorable pay-per-view at all…as the ugly lesbian skit is probably the one that sticks out the most.

Randy Orton is moved over to Raw the night after Unforgiven as a babyface, but it seems like they’re trying to push him down the fans throats on purpose so they will turn on him - like they did The Rock when he first came in and Orton can be pushed as a big heel. Orton gets injured pretty soon after with a shoulder injury and almost has his career derailed. How big were the hopes for Randy back then?

For the No Mercy TV commercial they bring back Pete Rose to rekindle his WrestleMania feud with Kane. That was always some fun stuff wasn’t it?

Speaking of Kane, he and Hurricane win the tag titles from Lance Storm & Christian.

Smackdown has a really hot show on September 26 from San Diego featuring two outstanding matches. Rey Mysterio defeated Benoit & Angle in the main event in a triple threat. Meltzer reports Vince was against putting Mysterio in the main event, but after hearing the hometown crowd reaction for Rey changed his mind.

The show stealer is Edge pinning Eddie Guerrero in a No DQ match including using a ladder a lot. Were you watching SmackDown and jealous of what they were doing compared to the HLA and…well what were about to cover…on Raw?

It’s determined that SmackDown needs it’s own tag team titles. Does this just continue to dilute the meaning of the titles? You got them merging then new ones being formed…seems like a lot doesn’t it?

The Un-Americans faction is broken up:

“On the UnAmericans political situation, Regal, who was added to the group to provide it with stability, is well liked by management (he took HHH under his wing so to speak when they were a tag team in WCW many years ago, not to mention he's considered having a great wrestling mind and is a student of the business) and will always be kept strong. Test, who was thought to have the most upside potential and this was originally to be his breakout role, is in the doghouse. Besides being asked to cut his hair, they also wanted him to lose the long leather pants for more traditional ring attire, and when he didn't, they figured he wasn't worth investing in because he wasn't dedicated enough. There are a lot of people down on him because he believes his future is in acting. Christian has a little heat, but not like Test, and he'll probably wind up where he was before the UnAmericans, which is nowhere. Storm has no heat, but right now no role, as at least as of the week the plan was to drop the UnAmericans name and gimmick.”

Were the agents right to be pissed? Did the talent have the right to stand up for themselves? What did you think of this whole mess?

Another change in championships on Raw is Kane defeating Jericho to win the IC Title. Kane is now a double champion and will face HHH at No Mercy. However the IC Title will be unified with the Word Title that night, this retiring the IC title after 23 years. Of course the IC Title would return in 2003, and I can understand dropping the European and Hardcore titles, but surely we need one midcard level title for the wrestlers in the midcard position to feud over?

They had the first Raw Roulette show on 10/7 from Vegas is held and there are some interesting matches on this show:

HHH defeated D-Lo Brown in a blindfold match

William Regal defeated Goldust in a Las Vegas Showgirl match

Jerry Lawler defeated Steven Richards in an “It’s Legal in Nevada match”. Lawler then leaves with the Godfather’s Ho Train and so JR you call the last match yourself which was a TLC match:

“It went 25 minutes and Kane won it alone defeating Bubba Ray & Spike Dudley, Christian & Jericho and RVD & Jeff Hardy to retain the tag titles for himself and Hurricane - who was beat up before the match by HHH & Flair”

At the end of the Raw Roulette show, HHH accused Kane of murdering his girlfriend - known as “Katie Vick” 10 years ago.

JR - there’s been a lot said about this story - angle - gimmick - whatever you want to call it. Is it the all-time lowest creative moment in WWE history?

On Smackdown they also decided to add some unnecessary soap-opera storyline stuff to the Brock-Taker feud.

“Lesnar and Heyman came out with a woman called Tracy, who claimed she was having an affair with "Mark" (Undertaker), but she apologized to Sara because she didn't know he was married or was a wrestler.

Undertaker called his wife Sara and told her he'd never even seen that woman before.”

From the Observer:

“Apparently the latest new direction of the company, based around a womens soap opera, was something Kevin Dunn sold Vince McMahon on and Vince believes it will turn the company around. The belief was the "Kane is a murderer" angle is a big hit, but by following it up with "Undertaker cheated on his pregnant wife," it's kind of like over booking angles so that even if one were to get over, by doing so many, you're almost guaranteeing diluting them. Since they only know one way to go, Kane is a murderer went to Kane isn’t a murderer, but either a rapist or committed necrophilia because his semen was found in Katie Vick, the imaginary dead girl. Well, we know the stuff in the women's showers was to make fun of the testimony in the Nicole Bass case.

Introducing the Undertaker angle three days after the Kane angle showed no pacing, and doing those with both PPV main events took all the steam out of the matches themselves, since they have nothing to do with how the "important" aspects of the story wind up, which is a murder trial or divorce court. I do think even the Smackdown show was missing a little in the soap opera department even though it was working and the shows were too good to criticize. “

JR what the hell is going on here? Was this the answer to right the ship - pump ratings up - get asses back in seats?

Nicole Bass’ lawsuit against WWE was thrown out in October and it was something you had to testify during. I know she’s no longer with us but what can you tell us about all this?

Even though Shawn Michaels made the big comeback at SummerSlam, he hasn’t been seen since and we are two months later now. Are you working on bringing him back - is Vince - or was it more of a wait and see mode at this time?

Also from the Observer: “Even though crowds have been down for some time, it’s pretty stunning how badly the advance for the No Mercy PPV in Little Rock is. At press time they had sold about 4,000 tickets for a show less than one week away in a building that holds 18,000 that was being cut down to 12,500. They haven’t had to majorly paper a PPV to this degree in years.”

This has to be a warning sign to someone doesn’t it? Is that why you think the shift to more soap opera gimmicks and angles were taking place?

On the go-home Raw well…

“Kane came out and said he didn’t kill Katie Vick. It was an accident. Crowd was chanting “what” while Kane was pouring his heart out, showing they weren’t buying any of this. Reports we had were that this interview killed the crowd for much of the rest of the show. When the “whats” died down, you could see the crowd was just wanting this to end and nobody was paying attention. He claimed ten years ago when he had his first match, she was his friend and they went to a party after the match (please don’t try and make sense of the original Kane storyline that Paul Bearer had him locked up in the house because of how badly burned he was till 1997).

She had drank a few too many so he wanted to drive her home. She said she wanted to go in her car, but he wasn’t familiar with driving a stick. It was rainy. The windows were fogging. An animal jumped out in front and he swerved to miss. Anyway, he wrecked the car, he broke his arm, and she was dead instantly. When Kane said she died, there were actually cheers. I guess people were just happy because they figured the interview was coming to an end. What a swerve that was.

HHH came out and said Kane was lying, that there were empty beer cans in the car and claimed he was drinking while driving, and then the autopsy showed Kane’s semen (and if you didn’t see the show, they did use that word) was in her. HHH explained that Katie didn’t like Kane in that way, so that Kane either forced himself on her (yes, the dreaded “we don’t do rape storylines” is out the window) or that he did it with her after she was dead. Kane left the building.”

Yeah…JR…yeah…

Well we’re at the show! No Mercy 2002:

The buyrate this year is: 298,000

While No Mercy last year with Austin vs. Angle vs. RVD on top and Jericho vs. Rock did: 325,000

Not the big drop off year over year. Do you think Katie Vick got people buying?

Observer:

“While the advance was poor, there was enough papering, particularly in the $200 section, to where the building looked fine on television. Reports were there were close to 10,000 in the Alltell Arena, probably not much more than 5,500 were paid. But those who were there made for a pretty lively crowd. The number of responses we got to the show was way down from last month, which looked to be the lowest buy rate for a WWE PPV show in five years. A decline, particularly since it was a fairly significant one, indicates more bad news.”

Both Unforgiven & No Mercy were the two least purchased pay-per-views for the WWE in 2002. This was the bottom that year wasn’t it?

“It was a two-match show, with Angle & Benoit vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio being Match-of- the-year quality and the Lesnar vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell match being a real violent bloodbath.

Except for the women's matches, and why they needed two on the same show is beyond me, nothing was bad. There were probably too many skits early, and the acting in some of them (Al Wilson in particular) was atrocious. You could see that the writers, and this is probably Brian Gewirtz, think they are writing Saturday Night Live sketches in points, but the acting is so bad. Then again, if you look at it as simply campiness between matches and an intermission, it wasn’t all that bad.”

Al Wilson - not a name we talk about a whole lot. What did you think of the Al Wilson - Torrie Wilson - Dawn Marie…I don’t know…love triangle? Story?

“1. Chris Jericho & Christian retained the World tag team titles over Booker T & Goldust in 8:46. Lawler made the crack, “Welcome to Arkansas, you can set your watch back 20 years.”

Well worked match. Goldust did the shattered dreams on Christian behind the refs back, but he made a remarkable recovery. After a drop toe hold on Jericho, he took a bump ending with his mouth in Christian’s sore crotch. Jericho slipped the curtain call and put Goldust in the walls and Booker had to save. Ax kick by Booker on Jericho but Christian saved. Missile dropkick by Booker on Jericho, followed by a spinnaroonie. Match ended with less than a bang, as Jericho went for the lionsault and the turnbuckle gave way. With visions of Hayabusa in my brain, luckily Jericho wasn’t hurt at all. The belt wound up in the ring and Jericho gave Goldust a facebuster on the belt, and improvised pretty quick from the planned lionsault finish, to climbing to the top for a moonsault finish. Jericho deserves a lot of credit for totally keeping his cool when the rope broke and the match nearly fell apart.

**¾”

This is a much better use of Christian than the UnAmericans don’t you think - but Jericho’s star has really fallen from being the first Undisputed champion to this in less than a year…

When you see something like the ring breaking - does that put a bad omen on things?

Funaki interviewed Al Wilson, asking him why he was wearing his clothes in the shower. Whole lame skit was so Wilson could make the remark that “I didn’t have sexual relations with that woman” as a Bill Clinton spoof. You know, because they were in Arkansas. I’m sure it was funny on paper before they considered the guy delivering the line wasn’t a comedian.

2. Torrie Wilson pinned Dawn Marie in 4:40.

Worse than indie level and I’ve seen people in their first matches better than this. Wilson won with a messed up neckbreaker. This had no point at all being on the show as nobody cared about seeing these two wrestle.

-½*”

JR - bowling shoe ugly right? Did these two need to be a wrestling ring?

“3. Rob Van Dam pinned Ric Flair in 7:59 after a frog splash. Crowd was quiet for this one. Nobody wanted to boo Flair or see him get beaten on. You’d think somebody would have picked up on that in the past seven years. Nobody wanted to boo Van Dam. Flair did all his trademark spots, and after taking the slam off the top rope, Van Dam did the rolling thunder to set up the finish.

**”

Seems like just two guys put into a match but with such star power - surprised it didn’t mean more right?

“Big Show was seen having a heart-to-heart with Stephanie. No good can come of this. Eric Bischoff came out and got mad about him talking to the enemy. He ended up throttling Eric and complained that he should be a main eventer. This means they are going to make another two week effort at pushing the guy, and after 1,000 failures, you’d think they’d just find someone who has the desire and push them. Or, it means Show is moving to Smackdown, as has been talked about for about two months. No good can come of that either.”

This seemed to be a common theme in Show’s career. Why was it a constant and consistent struggle with him?

“4. Jamie Noble pinned Tajiri in 8:15 to retain the cruiserweight title. Tajiri did an Asai moonsault before the bell even rang. Not much heat, which is what happens when you don’t promote a match ahead of time. Good match. Tajiri did an awesome tornado DDT, all his stiff kicks, and the tarantula. Finish saw Tajiri go for a rana (victory roll), but Nidia grabbed Noble to keep him from going over, and he wound up on top for the pin. After the match, Tajiri kissed Nidia big-time and she acted like she liked it. Noble then went to kiss her and Tajiri kicked him and they both took a pratfall. ***”

Noble & Nidia together were a great package weren’t they?

“5. HHH retained the World heavyweight title pinning Kane in 16:13. HHH missed a neckbreaker early that was even worse than a spot blown by Wilson in her match. He did a second one that was right on. Ross and Lawler kept talking about Katie Vick at the expense of the match. It really got annoying although no doubt they were instructed to do so by Vince. They worked a regular wrestling match, which made no sense given the build-up. They continued to harp on the angle, which is so embarrassing. Earth to Vince. This angle is the worst one of the year. The crowd in Montreal, the easiest city in the universe to get a pop, groaned about it feeling their intelligence was being insulted. Cut your losses. Flair came out to take bumps for Kane. At first he used a belt shot, but Kane kicked out of the pin. Hurricane ran in and Flair was then selling everything for Hurricane. That didn’t last long as HHH gave Hurricane a pedigree on the floor. As best I can tell, he’s still there now. Earl Hebner was accidentally kicked by Kane. Kane choke slammed HHH through the Spanish announcers table. Flair attacked Kane so he could no-sell it like it was Paul Heyman or Joel Gertner. Fair started bumping again. Flair got the sledge hammer, but Kane blocked him from using it and was about to split HHH’s head open, but HHH used a low blow. Kane recovered from that and set up a tombstone, but HHH gave him a sledge hammer blow to the stomach. Kane survived that and hit a choke slam. Hebner was still selling so a second ref came in to count. Flair pulled him out of the ring and decked him. Well, at least the refs will sell Flair’s offense. Kane choke slammed Flair. He survived a belt shot, a sledge hammer shot and constant interference from Flair, but couldn’t survive the pedigree.

**¾”

This is classic Hunter in 02 isn’t it? Were you instructed to put over the Katie Vick story at the expense of the match? Does that something that at this point in your career you do to make the boss happy?

“Stephanie, now as the world’s most righteous babyface, brought Tracy Dali into her office. I think this was one of those last minute ideas to clean up the storyline since on Smackdown, Stephanie had banned her for life, and then she showed up on the PPV. Stephanie asked her, woman-to-woman, with nobody but 250,000 viewers watching, what the story really was. She admitted that she hadn’t been with Mark in seven years but that Heyman called her up to make the story up. Then she said she wanted Mark back and would do anything to get him back. This was moments after she said she didn’t care about him or love him. I was confused, but the acting by Tracy was so bad you couldn’t stop laughing. Undertaker then showed up, as he was hiding while this was all going on. He noted she was a lying bitch and Stephanie again booted her out.”

This was just…terrible storytelling wasn’t it?

“6. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit became the first WWE (Smackdown) tag team champions over Rey Mysterio & Edge in 22:03.

Angle used the ankle lock on Edge, who caught him in a tight small package for a great near fall. Edge threw Mysterio over the top where he did a moonsault block on Benoit. In the ring, Angle got Edge in the ankle lock. Edge reversed it, but Angle then reversed it back and got the submission. Match of the year candidate.

****¾”

Is it frustrating to watch this match and not be able to call it? How good were these 6 together?

“7. Trish Stratus pinned Victoria in 5:31 to retain the WWE women’s title. Only thing I remember about this match was Lawler asking about the vague back story of how Stratus kept Victoria out of WWE and when Ross didn’t know, Lawler said, “You know everyone’s shoe size, hat size and what college they went to and you don’t know this?” Stratus won with a rolling reverse cradle. Nowhere close to their TV match from a few weeks back.

*”

Is this Jerry just breaking your balls? Trish and Victoria would go on to have more classic matches but this was really when Trish was starting to break out into her own wasn’t it?

Finally the main event…

“8. Brock Lesnar pinned Undertaker in the Hell in a Cell match to retain the WWE title in 27:18. Lesnar juiced 4:00 in from a cast shot. Undertaker was dominating early. Heyman even juiced, real heavy, when Undertaker pulled him through a hole in the cage by his tie and I guess his head hit the cage. Lesnar used Heyman’s belt and tied Undertaker’s hand to the cage and hit it with six chair shots. Lesnar spent the next few minutes trying to get the cast off, while Undertaker would try and keep it on. Finally it came off and Lesnar worked on the hand. Undertaker did a juice job the likes of which you rarely see. Blood was flowing from his head like a faucet, almost small puddles. Undertaker countered the F-5 into a choke slam for a near fall. Lesnar went for a last ride but Undertaker blocked it and turned it into a DDT. Finally, Undertaker went for a tombstone, Lesnar reversed it, and powered Undertaker to his shoulders and hit the F-5 for the clean win in the middle. ****”

This is a career defining moment for Brock isn’t it?

Does watching this make you feel sort of some way that you’re not involved and not calling the main event?

This is a lot of blood for this time frame is it not? Too much?

The show is a critical success according to the Observer readers with a 79.9% thumbs up and it’s hard to disagree with how good the show was. This was one of those things that WCW used to do with so-so TV creative and great wrestling on the pay-per-views. But it’s not a good thing when you’re being compared to WCW right?