Grilling JR - Clash of the Champions XX [Show Notes] (Patreon)

This week on Grilling JR - we’re going to be looking back at 30 years ago when WCW celebrated the 20th Clash of the Champions!

This is also the 20th anniversary of wrestling on TBS. This seems…off without Ric Flair don’t you think?

From the Observer in early September:

WCW houses up, but TV ratings remain low - A combination of several things, most notably a gimmick pricing situation that allows two children free for each paying adult ticket, has resulted in a huge increase in attendance (although 30 to 40 percent of those in the building are getting in free), which of course would be expected with that gimmick, but also significantly increased houses. While the biggest houses (Jacksonville at $37,000 on 8/15; Atlanta at $35,000 on 8/16 and Little Rock at $32,000 on 8/19) are not that different from what some of the better house earlier in the year did, this past week's houses averaged $23,600 and 3,480 fans in the building in cities in Louisiana and Arkansas that haven't drawn numbers like that in years. Many are also crediting the increases to the angles run on 8/2 in Baltimore--Ron Simmons becoming WCW champion and the debut of Jake Roberts since the first week after the title switch with the gimmicked prices but before the change and angle were known to the general audience, drew poorly in the Midwest. Roberts has been getting a huge babyface reaction, surprisingly, at all house shows except when he's matched against Sting. Simmons has been praised for his match quality in his title matches against Big Van Vader and he's getting a huge reaction everywhere since taking the strap. However, the two main WCW cable shows over the past few weeks averaged a 2.1 rating, poor numbers for the month of August which shows the new angles, at least to this point, haven't increased general public interest in the product.

When it comes to live events it’s the gimmick to get them in the door…TV its about getting them to tune in. How long would you think it takes to reset a television audience?

Is it disappointing when you’re hotshotting things like WCW World title changes and debuts of Jake Roberts to not see a turn around in the TV ratings?

At the same time Mike Mooneyham wrote in his column in the Charleston, South Carolina Post-Courier that “several WCW performers say morale has reached a new low” and it would go on to say not many talent on the WCW side were very trusting of Bill Watts. Is that on the talent or Bill do you think?

"These guys have families," said the source, "and one of the reason they're here is because of guaranteed money. Terry Taylor has a family. He was making $3,000 a week. He's spending 30 percent of that on taxes, and out of the rest, he's spending $75,000 a year on the road. He's not staying in suites with jacuzzies. That's $75,000 in business expenses to live on the road. And Watts takes him off contract. In the meantime, he can't take independent dates either because he's afraid he'll have a WCW booking and have to cancel at the last minute, or he'll get fired for accepting independent dates (editors note: Since this article was printed, Taylor was let go and not offered the $300 per night to work an unspecified schedule). Watts is going to have to hope that the Slaters, Barbarians, Williams and Gordys will do the jobs because the Stings, Steiners, Terry Taylors, Rudes and Austins will not stay around under these conditions." . .

This is a fair concern with the talent is it not - especially considering Taylor would end up getting fired as noted.

Well when the article comes out it gets Bill hot and he mentions it in a meeting with the wrestlers before a TV taping at the Omni. From the Observer:

“Watts asked if anyone had a problem and told them he wanted to know if anyone had a morale problem. Surprisingly, one wrestler, Nikita Koloff, spoke up, and talked about having a problem with the rule about having to stay in the buildings until the main event ends every night (ironically, the person speaking up here, Koloff, at this point is still high on the cards and thus would be in the buildings late every night anyway unlike a prelim wrestler who is affected by this rule) and missing occasional chances to catch a late flight home and spend an extra night every now and then with his family, which, because of the travel schedule, family time is limited. Watts responded, and since I only heard this from one source and don't want to misquote him, but suffice to say every wrestler with a family, which is most of the guys, were left cold with something along the lines of this business isn't conducive to family life.”

Mick Foley wrote something similar in his book - I know old school and all that shit - but this is just a morale busting answer isn’t that?

How hard was Bill working to get wrestlers off their guaranteed deals? Is this on Watts or WCW directive to cut spending?

Was Bill against guaranteed deals?

From the Observer: “The new deals go something like this. Keep in mind these are figures and stipulations I was told specifically, however I have also not seen a contract myself so I can't guarantee authenticity of every word of this, but I'm sure it's pretty close if not the complete story. Main eventers would earn $1,000 per show, middle-of-the-card guys earn $500 and prelim guys $350. There would be no guarantee of the number of dates you'd be booked. While a full schedule at $1,000 per show is hardly anything to cry about, if the wind blows strangely and a new booker is put in charge and you're not in his plans, and everyone in that company has seen first-hand how that story goes down, you simply can be erased from shows and make no money and still be under contract.”

This is super tough for the boys is it not? Its 1992 - not 1982. Was this the right direction for talent after having it be long standing in WCW for the guaranteed contracts?

As we discuss talent moving out there’s a lot of talent moving in. Specifically Chris Benoit, Shane Douglas and Erik Watts get put on the booking sheets. Obviously Erik stands out on that list with Bill in power. What did you think of the decision to bring him in?

It’s also announced that Masa Chono - as NWA champion - will be coming in for Halloween Havoc in Philadelphia to take on Rick Rude. Why was Bill so heavy to get back into the NWA business?

Both Curtis Hughes and JYD are no longer with the company and Meltzer reports for Hughes it was due to legal problems. Do you remember anything about this?

From the Observer: “Want to hear a statistic that will blow your mind? In July, the weekly WCW show in England averaged 3.7 million viewers per week (by contrast, the Saturday night show TBS show is at best getting two million viewers in this country). The two WWF shows average 308,000 viewers, so WCW has more than a 12-to- one edge in viewership (primarily because WWF is on the Sky Channel, which has limited penetration, while WCW is on network television although the British censors edit the show like crazy. Thus, because of superior television production values, WWF is still considered the major league). With all that viewership, WCW has no tours scheduled in England while WWF is making millions there. The tour last year by WCW was hurt because at the time they didn't have any television, but still drew a few thousand per night.”

Jim - does anyone in WCW realize this? How is this not a top priority to run shows over there?

“Bruno Sammartino has been talked about as being the Northeastern representative and many think he'll end up with some kind of a role.”

This just seems like it would give WCW some credibility and piss Vince off to no end. Was this Bill’s end goal?

“Magnum T.A. was taken off the Power Hour and replaced by Larry Zbyszko. Magnum has been given a new title of Director of Player Personnel.”

Was Magnum better off in this role compared to being a commentator? Why do you think it was Larry in this role?

On August 31st the WWF aired the infamous Wembley Stadium SummerSlam show. Did you watch it live and what did you think of it?

Do you think having the Clash being a free show just two days later would have an impact on the purchases of the WWF pay-per-view?

We’re at the show Jim and it’s well received from the Wrestling Observer readers. 61.5% thumbs up. Going into the show were you expecting it to be one of the better Clashes?

From the Observer:

“Clash XX took place on 9/2 at Center Stage in Atlanta, part reminiscing and old-time taped features, part wrestling card. As the former, it was a very enjoyable show. I'd give the show a strong thumbs up because I enjoyed the old features. As a wrestling card, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't good. Eight matches turned into five, but the show was better off that way and at least it was free. Quite frankly, I couldn't wait for the matches to end to see more old footage. None of the bouts were bad, but the wrestling aspect was nothing special.”

The decision to have this in Center Stage and in Atlanta makes sense because of the significance in history. What did you think of that decision compared to say running the Omni?

In the beginning we see such luminaries like Bob Dhue and Bill Shaw arrive. I don’t know why they needed to be shown besides egos but that always tickled me.

“1. Rick Steamboat pinned Steve Austin in 10:43 to win the TV title. Paul E. Dangerously was put in a cage above the ring, largely to keep him off television. Steamboat was wearing rib protection but Austin ripped it off him midway through. They did a double tombstone reversal and went to near falls. Finish came when Austin threw Steamboat out of the ring, Steamboat crawled under the ring and came out the other side and came off the top (this was a no DQ match) with a flying cross body for the pin. All solid work but match came off a little flat on TV because of the lack of crowd reaction. ***¼”

How bad was the relationship with Bill and Heyman at this point in time?

This is obviously the time to elevate Austin to the next level and to do so it was time to take the title off him and it’s a great match. You had to see Austin at this point being a top boy?

Ventura cuts a joke on Bruno in the middle of this match that you completely no-sell. Did Jesse have heat with Bruno?

There’s a look back at various tag teams over the years including the Briscos, the Road Warriors, the Freebirds & Rock ‘n’ Roll Express. Were you surprised they were ok with showing people in a prominent and positive role that were currently on the other channel…and especially after the way the Briscos left Georgia?

“2. Anderson & Eaton beat Slater & Valentine in 5:42. Larry Zbyszko, who was in Slater & Valentine's corner for inexplicable reasons, went to hit Anderson with his cast, but Anderson moved and he hit Valentine. Eaton pinned Valentine with an Alabama jam off the middle rope. The cameras missed Z's interference originally and replay missed part of the finish as well. *½”

Any idea why Larry was here? Yes he was kicked out of the Dangerous Alliance earlier this year but still there’s no storyline for him to just to be with Slater & Valentine…

Also Michael Hayes comes out with Arn & Bobby Eaton and man oh man what that could’ve been with some legs don’t you think?

What was the reason for the transition for Michael at this point in his career? Injuries? I mean he’s only 33 years old here.

It’s basically two heel teams against each other which leads to no heat. Is this just a lets get these guys on the card type of thing?

The production issues - is that just an issue with agenting and not letting the truck know what’s coming? Why was this a constant issue in WCW at the time?

After the match Bill Watts is out and strips Brad Armstrong of the Light Heavyweight title due to injury and announces a tournament for the vacant title. Said tournament never takes place and the belt is retired. Do you think if Bill had hung around longer we would’ve gotten that tournament?

Brian Pillman comes out and turns heel on Armstrong calling him a coward and slaps him and boom the road to the Hollywood Blondes begins here. Pillman as a heel - it’s always been said it’s tough for a smaller man to be a heel at this time frame - what say you?

Next there’s a video package of singles stars in the past - you got Dusty Rhodes, Stan Hansen, Ron Garvin, Tony Atlas, Magnum TA, Buzz Sawyer, Mr. Wrestling II, the Great Kabuki, Ted DiBiase, Bill Watts (of course), Wahoo McDaniel, Masked Superstar, Jimmy Valiant, King Kong Bundy, the Spoiler, Tully Blanchard, Ric Flair, Terry Funk, Tommy Rich & Roddy Piper. When you embrace history like this it’s better off for the company in the long run is it not? Why do you think Vince McMahon always saw it differently?

“3. Simmons pinned Cactus Jack in 8:51 to retain the WCW title. They did a great job with a Simmons video to make him seem like a world champion, but once this match started, the illusion was over. Jack was hurting bad here and nowhere near his best. Simmons was with a powerslam. *¾”

You can see the wear & tear had caught up to Cactus at this point. But what you would think would be good wasn’t really. What was the issue with this match? Just a styles clash with no ability to return from?

Simmons sort of no-sells Cactus elbow off the apron onto the concrete - do you think that made sense to make Simmons look strong or do you think it made Cactus look weak? What’s your school of thought there?

Ole Anderson is the referee for this match - did he help or hurt the presentation in your mind?

Masa Chono’s NWA title win over Rick Rude in Japan is shown to help promote Chono coming over. I always surprised a big man like Chono really had such a hard time making head way in the United States. Do you think he could’ve been bigger with a good mouthpiece?

“ 4. Barbarian & Butch Reed beat Rhodes & Windham in 8:13 when Barbarian pinned Windham with a foot to the face. Reed subbed for Danny Spivey who was in Japan. The story was that Cactus Jack called Spivey and told him to stay home because he was bringing in Reed, who knows more about Ron Simmons than anyone. How that explains him wrestling Rhodes & Windham is another story. Rhodes took one great bump missing a shoulder tackle. Windham sold the finish great. Just okay **”

Yeah this story explanation is rough to say the least but that was the best it could be right? Cactus being on commentary though is so funny it’s great…was he fun to work with?

Just okay is a perfect summation of this match in my mind. And Butch Reed was over in Florida.

“5. Rude & Roberts & Vader & Super Invader beat Sting & Steiners & Koloff in an elimination tag match which took 15:15. Rick and Vader worked hot spots together and were the highlight of the match and the card. First fall saw Koloff pinned in 7:26 when Roberts pinned him after he collided with Rude. Sting pinned Invader in :36 with a face-buster in the second fall. Third fall was back to the Vader/Rick Steiner show with them trading hot power moves. Rick tried to stand up with Vader on his shoulders but 395 of dead weight starting at the bottom made this a bad idea. At least he didn't tear out his lower back because that much weight that shaky is dangerous. Scott was DQ'd in 3:32 for coming off the top with a clothesline on Vader. They attempted the Road Warrior finisher but Rick couldn't get Vader up. Rick was counted out in :55 next when Rude gave him a neckbreaker on the floor which left Sting against three. With Rude and Sting both on the mat, Vader came off the top and accidentally splashed both men. Vader was DQ'd in 2:54 while both Sting and Rude were left for dead. The crowd was chanting "DDT, DDT" and Roberts dragged Rude to the corner, tagged in and got the pin with the DDT in :46. Best match on card. ***¼”

Super Invader is the man known as Hercules and he’s gigantic here Jim. This is a great match but man the issues with Vader - was this just the guys being too ambitious?

Was it an issue how popular Jake was? I mean he’s portrayed here as the top heel and the crowd is chanting, “DDT, DDT” and pinning the top babyface. Is Jake frustrated by this? Sting?

From the Observer: “Lots of old features showing everyone from Buzz Sawyer to Jack & Jerry Brisco to Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, Ted DiBiase, Jim Cornette, Tully Blanchard, Dusty Rhodes, Bill Watts, Ole Anderson, Freebirds, Road Warriors, etc. Give them credit for not showing anyone in a bad light even though many of the man achieved their greatest fame with the WWF, or in the case of Flair, had just won the WWF title. Among those there introduced were Thunderbolt Patterson, who would have been embarrassing except his interview was mercifully short, Mr. Wrestling II (via video from Hawaii which shows they did work especially hard to put this together right rather than just do the easy way), Bruno Sammartino (who did an interview with a less than slight knock at WWF), Bob Armstrong, Ted Turner (I wonder if Ted even knew what he was reading) and Andre the Giant among others. Hank Aaron was also there, as was former announcer Freddie Miller. They had a poll on the top rope rule and 88 percent voted it down (don't know if that figure was a shoot or not), which means they'll obviously be repealing the rule if they haven't already. I enjoyed this more than most shows, but I wasn't left with a positive feeling about the company's future. All these charismatic guys like Cornette, Flair, Piper, Warriors, etc. in 15 seconds seemed to get over better and come off more as superstars than almost any of the current guys did. Crowd live was only 500 in Center Stage, or half full.”

Having Andre the Giant’s last appearance here was quite interesting. Do you know how all this came to be?

Hank Aaron being there came to be ironic months later when Bill Watts was finally let go wouldn’t you agree?

When you look back at history and see all these guys who are bigger stars than what you’re presenting now though…that’s quite the indictment on the current product is it not?

“The positive was the show did a 3.7 and 6.1 share, so it was viewed in 2.19 million homes. Rating was the same as less September's Clash headlined by the world tag team title tourney won by The Enforcers, and only the 17th highest out of the 20 Clashes, but considering everything as far as declining wrestling ratings across-the-board, the WWF's special the previous week doing a 2.7, the last Clash doing a 2.8, Dusty, Ross, Watts, etc. were probably doing cartwheels (well, okay, not cartwheels) when the numbers came in. The show peaked for the eight-man at a 4.3 with a 7.1 share and 2.57 million homes. Simmons vs. Cactus also did a 4.3 but in 2.54 million homes.”

Were you doing cartwheels?

“After the show was a well-produced video plugging the Sting vs. Jake Roberts "Spin the wheel, make the deal" main event for Halloween Havoc on 10/25 in Philadelphia. While the video was great, and Roberts' performance even better, it made no sense given the direction the company is supposedly taking wrestling. That would have been awesome in WWF where feuds are more spoofy or Japan where feuds don't revolve around personal hatred, but for an angle revolving around personal hatred, it's hard to believe two guys could be together for the literally hours it would take to put that piece of film together.”

Does this seem too hokey for how serious the feud was?

There’s a whole lot to discuss on that show and we will later on this year Jim. But what did you think of the overall presentation of the show and anything else that stands out during this time period?