Grilling JR - Judgment Day 2002 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

20 years ago this week was Judgment Day 2002 - the first official World Wrestling Entertainment pay-per-view after the name change.

Do you think the WWF lost any brand standing when the switch was made?

As we come off Backlash which we covered last month - it’s like what is old is new again. Back in 1991 coming off the Survivor Series the WWF ran an experiment with Tuesday in Texas. The story was Hulk Hogan was defeated by the Undertaker with help from Ric Flair for Taker’s first WWF title. The Tuesday pay-per-view was built off the finish of that and ends with Hogan regaining the title from Taker after interference from Paul Bearer and the title ends up being held up for the epic Royal Rumble of 1992. And here we are…10 years later…and who’s at the top of the cards but The Undertaker, Ric Flair & Hulk Hogan. This is a big topic of discussion even now where older stars are pushed sometimes over younger stars. What are your thoughts on what is old being new again?

The Red & Yellow comeback tour is the main story at this time in the WWE. Nostalgia will only draw for a short period of time. Would you agree with that Jim?

With Taker’s win over Austin at Backlash he’s now the #1 contender and we’re destined to see Taker vs. Hogan for the WWE title at Judgment Day. It was going to be hard to have a great match with these two at this point of their career right?

The story with Flair and Steve Austin is something that was fresh between these two but a similar story with Flair being the heel owner and Austin the rebellious babyface. Did it feel like it was time to go back to what works which is Austin against a heel authority figure?

It’s hard to recreate this with anyone but Vince McMahon but damn if Flair wasn’t close right?

The day after Backlash, Raw is in St. Louis

the 4/22 Raw drew a 4.8 rating.

The main thing on the show is Big Show turning heel (again) and joining the nWo as he turns on Austin in their tag match vs Scott Hall & X-Pac.

They’re also hinting at the “Owner of Raw” Ric Flair turning heel too as he keeps repeating he never saw Austin’s foot on the rope the previous night at the PPV, when Taker pinned him, but Stone Cold and the crowd don’t buy it.

Big Show turning sides all the time, was it becoming kinda silly at this point? This is the 7th turn in his 3-year WWF run and there’s many more to come!

“They did an Austin-Hogan test marketing deal after Raw in St. Louis. After the show went off the air, Hogan did a run-in to help Austin clean house on Show, X-Pac and Hall. Austin then gave Hogan a stunner, which got a mixed response. When Hogan recovered, they did a staredown, but ended up doing the beer drinking celebration in the ring including Hogan leg dropping a beer can”

Did you think there would ever be a Hogan - Austin program?

Over on Smackdown on 4/25 from Peoria, featuring Randy Orton making his WWF TV debut getting the pin over Hardcore Holly.

Was Randy ready for the big time yet do you think?

Jericho defeats Triple H in the main event thanks to the Undertaker, which means Y2J will get a title shot vs Hogan.

“Smackdown on 4/25 was officially a major problem. The show, against heavy competition, drew a 3.4 rating (4.05 realistic rating/5.4 million viewers) and five share, tying the all-time record non-holiday low for the show. More importantly, it was the lowest non-holiday realistic rating and lowest rating share in the history of the show, breaking the record low of 4.12 set two weeks earlier.”

Was the product just stale? Is this a sign that right off the bat the brand extension wasn’t working. Or is it just trying to get the company realigned?

From the Observer:

“The injuries to Lita while filming the FOX TV show "Dark Angel" in Vancouver were a herniated disc along with three cracks in the C6 and C7 areas of her vertebrae that were discovered when she went to the hospital in St. Louis before Raw because of how much pain she was in. She saw Dr. Lloyd Youngblood the next day who recommended surgery, which is scheduled for 4/30, and she'll be out six to nine months. The injuries occurred during the practice run of her fight sequence the weekend before the filming of the sequence. While filming the show itself, it was noticeable she was in pain because her posture was hunched over and she was wincing and frowning. She still did her fight scene even after the injury”

How tough is Lita and how big a blow is this to the company?

“Kane will be out three to four months after surgery on 4/16 from Dr. James Andrews, who is being kept quite busy seemingly weekly by the WWF. Kane actually suffered the bicep tear while training on 4/14.”

The litany of injuries the company is going through around this time…is that a sign of just how hard everyone was going from late 97 to this point?

“There are negotiations regarding a contract buyout for Goldberg and subsequent signing with WWF, but don't know how serious they are. They've taken place on-and-off for the past year, and ultimately WWF hasn't come through with enough money to get him to commit. The last time they were at any kind of a semi-serious level before this was early in the year, when Hogan was trying to broker a deal which would have seen him come in with Goldberg as opposed to with Hall & Nash”

Are you dealing with Goldberg at this time? What do you remember of this?

“Larry Zbyszko filed three separate lawsuits on 4/19 in Federal Court in Atlanta against Vince McMahon, WWFE and Chris Irvine (Jericho) for usage of the term "Living Legend" in describing Jericho. Whistler trademarked the name for use in wrestling and his lawyers several weeks back sent a cease-and-desist letter to the company. After the letter, they continued to use the phrase on television. Titan had no comment on the suit. It's a funny story because Titan Sports originally trademarked "Living Legend" in the 80s for Bruno Sammartino, and when Sammartino quit the company, Linda McMahon actually told him he could no longer use the nickname. You can imagine his response and he continued to use it. He guessed correctly because it would have done Titan no good p.r. to try and sue Sammartino over doing autograph shows and grand openings using that billing.”

This…doesn’t help Larry get in good with the company I have to assume?

From the Observer:

“Lou Thesz passed away at about 7:35 a.m. on 4/28, 19 days after undergoing open heart surgery in Orlando, FL, and four days after his 86th birthday. His wife, Charlie updated people regularly, using terms Lou lived his life with. He was regularly kicking out at two and nine-tenths. But for three weeks, his back remained on the canvas. He met the one opponent he couldn't reverse.

One day after his death, the only national promotion left in the United States, in a display lacking class to a degree that even the carnies of the past likely wouldn't have lowered themselves to, failed to acknowledge the death of someone who many would argue was the greatest star in the history of the industry. Even sadder was the embarrassment, when Steve Austin delivered a Thesz press in his tag team match, and Jim Ross, who routinely calls the move, paused for a second. The pause showed he didn't know what to do and knew he was in a no-win situation. Obviously the subject had been brought up in production and the company decision had been made. The decision that was made spoke more volumes about the company than anything in a long time. Granted, Thesz had never had nice things to say about today's WWF wrestling other than praising its production and raving about Kurt Angle. There had been legal problems in the past between the two when Thesz unknowingly booked The Samoans for an overseas tour, only to find out they were still under WWF contract. But he had appeared once and was put over at the Meadowlands in the mid-80s in a WWF old-timers Battle Royal and made appearances at a major show in Houston and the Badd Blood PPV in St. Louis in 1997. Maybe it was symbolic, that even in death, the promoter makes the final decision and all wrestlers no matter how important they once were, are nothing more than replaceable parts on an assembly line, to be forgotten the day after they draw their last house. "Lou Thesz press," Ross said, moving quickly away from the subject.”

What was your relationship like with Lou over the years?

Is Meltzer correct in his reporting, basically saying it had been decided the death of Thesz would not be mentioned on TV and you took a pause before saying his name?

Raw on 4/29 from Buffalo before 8,500 drew the show's lowest rating since the end of football season with a 4.38 rating (4.17 first hour; 4.56 second hour) and a 6.6 share.

The real bad news for the show was that the Hogan-Undertaker angle only did a 4.10 overrun, which is among the lowest, if not the lowest, main event overrun ratings dating back four years.

Once again, it was Flair and Austin carrying the ratings, and it's no longer a theory, but a fact, that Hogan is done as a ratings draw.”

It was supposed to be Hogan vs William Regal in the main event match here but Taker attacked Hogan before the match, and left him in a bloody mess.

Is there concern internally that this was the wrong feud for Hogan’s title run?

Smackdown from Pittsburgh airs on 5/2 with 10,000 in attendance. Hogan defeats Jericho in the main event in a no DQ match.

“The single scariest ratings number for the WWF in the past five years was for the 5/2 Smackdown, which drew an all-time record low 2.9 rating (3.33 realistic rating) and five share. The audience of 4.48 million viewers would be the third lowest for any WWF Raw or Smackdown episode dating back to 1998 (previous low that should be comparable over the past four years was 4.95 million on 10/22 for Raw, although Raw episodes on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve drew less viewers but that's not a fair comparison). The realistic rating dropped 18% from last week, which was its lowest realistic rating of the year and second lowest in the history of the show on a non-holiday night.

Smackdown had never before drawn below a 3.2 rating, a number it had done three times in its history, on Thanksgiving night in 2000 and 2001, which is one of the lowest rated nights of TV all year, and on June 14, 2001, when they were in that period when Austin had turned heel and people were tuning out in droves, defending the title against Spike Dudley in the main event.”

JR this has to be alarm bells for the company regarding Hogan right?

The Raw crew goes on a European tour starting 5/1 in Cologne, Germany, and then shows in Glasgow, Scotland and Birmingham, England. Then it’s the UK-only PPV Insurrextion in London on 5/4.

Great crowds every night with this being the first overseas tour to last multiple dates in over 3 years, as previously they were just coming over for the Saturday UK PPVs twice a year and flying straight back to the U.S immediately after for live Raw on Monday.

Was the North American business just hot enough on it’s own from 1999-2001 that they didn’t need to run overseas shows too besides the PPVs?

You and Terri Runnels also went to the UK for a media promotion before the show for a couple of days and appeared on a few UK TV and radio shows doing interviews. Any memories of those? Did you enjoy doing this type of media work?

Of course on the way back from the Insurrextion PPV, is the infamous “plane ride from hell”. I think we’ve discussed that enough on the show before.

Once we get to Raw on 5/6 in Hartford before a sellout crowd of 9,000, we’ve had a major change. The World Wrestling Federation is now officially renamed World Wrestling Entertainment.

Of course, the company had been preparing for this for a little while now, and they’re all ready to go with the new logo and slogan “Get the F out” plastered all over the TV show.

The only person who didn’t “get the F out” JR was you! You told us a couple of weeks back about wearing a sweater on the air here, still with the WWF logo, and there were a few telling off’s as a result.

Just one of those days as I’m sure your uniform was the last thing on your mind that day following the Europe trip.

“Despite a show that was dead, the rating for Raw on 5/6 was quite alive. The show did a 4.56 rating (4.24 first hour; 4.83 second hour/5.79 million total viewers), actually up from the week before.”

“Hogan stole Undertaker's bike. Hogan came out with the bike. He didn't get a big pop at first, but worked the crowd tremendously. He called out Undertaker. Undertaker came out. Hogan challenged him to fight and he backed down. Then the segment fell apart. Hogan was supposed to ride Taker's bike up the ramp and chase him away. But he couldn't get the bike to move. It was one of those moments like the Shock Master falling through the curtain. Fans were booing. Then Hogan was riding the bike backstage looking for Taker. He wouldn't come out. Hogan threatened to run over his bike if he didn't come out. First Lucy the dog, and now the bike gets run over.”

The risks of live TV…but my goodness as a broadcaster Jim when something like this happens…what runs through your head…what’s coming through your headset…

In the main event it’s Austin, Flair & Bradshaw vs the nWo (Hall in his final WWE match, Big Show & X-Pac) with Flair turning on Austin and beating him down with a chair.

When are you told to let Scott Hall go? What do you remember of that conversation?

Also let go is Curt Hennig. That spark in the Rumble was gone very quickly was it not?

TNA is announced as beginning to be formed. Where does this come in on your radar?

Smackdown on 5/9 from Bridgeport drew a sellout 8,500 crowd.

This show features the debut of Deacon Batista, as a bodyguard for Reverend D-Von. It’s great Batista is put on the main roster but is this the best someone could come up with?

Reverend D-Von actually pins HHH here after some interference from Jericho.

Did Hunter immediately see something in Batista?

The main event has Hogan & Edge go to a no contest with Angle & Jericho when an irate HHH attacks everyone with the sledgehammer.

“Smackdown on 5/9 rebounded to a 3.6 rating (4.29 realistic rating/5.70 million viewers) and six share. While a below average number, after the disastrous number the week earlier, it probably doesn't look so bad anymore.”

“This is not exactly a unique idea to me, but Vince needs to talk with Lawler about his experience keeping Jackie Fargo a strong draw for ten years after his day should have been over in Memphis and use it for Hogan. I'm sure that every time Fargo came back, he probably always got as big or a bigger pop than everyone in the territory, including Lawler, who was the big draw. But they'd only bring him back for one or two shows every six months to a year, so he never came off like an old man, but simply as a legend returning. As much as before Hogan and Flair came back, everyone had the pat answers, including Vince himself, of how to use them, not overexpose them, only have them

wrestle 2-3 times on PPV and never on television, etc. But they've done the exact

opposite, using them as regular TV main eventers and on just about every PPV show in the ring. They've become two of the five most pushed acts on television (and when Vince himself is another along with Undertaker, you're talking about the same problems WCW faced). Just like in WCW, they got more of a crowd pop then the younger guys, but what did that accomplish.”

Would you agree less is more with guys like Hogan/Flair during this time?

The go-home Raw for Judgment Day is in Toronto in front of a 15,500 sell out crowd.

From the Observer:

“Raw on 5/13 in Toronto was the Nitro appreciation show. Flair and Hogan as the focal points. Surprises that don't deliver. Booking to make sure guys about to get over are stopped dead in their tracks. A cornball angle with the wrong kind of heat, and the sign police out in full force showing a company scared of the beginnings of a backlash against one of their top babyfaces.”

“They introduced Dreamer as Mick Foley from high school. He brushed his teeth with the same toothbrush he was brushing his dog's teeth with. He shaved his tongue with a razor, and then he drank a glass of water out of a urinal”

Jim—-what in the world is this?

“Hogan pinned Flair with a legdrop in 8:46 to keep the title. Great heat. These are still the two best guys at every little trick of getting heat, and at confusing so many people that heat equals money. From a technical standpoint, this was Hogan's best match since being back as Flair still is the best in the world at carrying a total zero to a decent match. It was sad when Flair couldn't flip all the way over doing his Ray Stevens bump into the corner, but aside from that, it was exactly what you'd expect in every spot. X-Pac interfered after a first legdrop, but Hogan got rid of him. Show and Bradshaw got involved and Flair had the match won when Austin ran in and gave Flair a stunner, leading to the legdrop.”

Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair as the WWE World Title match on a go-home Raw for a pay-per-view. It’s like the twilight zone isn’t it?

“Hogan did an interview and Undertaker hit him a few times with a tire iron, then tied him up behind his own motorcycle. Undertaker drove all over backstage with Hogan behind him like he was being dragged by a boat. Apparently in the building, people were laughing at this, which is not the kind of emotion you're looking for to get impulse buys on PPV. It ended up with Hogan, wearing this crash helmet, crashing into a set up of empty cardboard boxes. Hogan suffered his neck injury a few days before the title match, which those who remember Sammartino and Backlund's title losses will remember as the old gimmick.

Austin's main event was a lumberjack match with all heel lumberjacks, against the mystery new member of the NWO, which turned out to be Booker. Crowd deflated for that. Heels kept beating on Austin. Lesnar in particular pounded on Austin some six months before the two should ever touch. Austin gave Regal a stunner and pinned Booker after a schoolboy in 5:25. After Austin had laid out every heel in the company, he walked off but was jumped by, you guessed it, a retired road agent, Arn Anderson, who beat him up. Show choke slammed him twice and elbow dropped him while Flair continued to beat on him. Austin was bleeding from the mouth.”

This is a whole lot of creative being shoved into one show, Jim. Is this what happens when you begin booking scared?

Is it understandable now why Austin was so frustrated with creative?

“The turning Ric Flair heel ratings curse started on 5/13 as Raw drew its lowest non- holiday rating since March 30, 1998 with a 3.91 rating (3.56 first hour; 4.23 second hour/4.96 million viewers). The show also did poorly in Canada, as it didn't crack the top ten for the evening (which would mean less than 597,000 viewers), which for a show that emanated from Toronto, was a huge disappointment.”

What do you think - if anything - could’ve stopped the ratings freefall?

Davey Boy Smith passed away on 5/17 at the age of 39. What do you remember when you heard the news?

We’re here at the show now Jim! And Meltzer has…some pointed comments regarding it.

“In yet another show very reminiscent of WCW after its peak, the first PPV show under the WWE banner on 5/19 from the Gaylord Entertainment Center had its good undercard and weak finish.”

These are the types of things the WWF used to mock WCW over. Young guys working their asses off underneath and shitty main events with guys like Hogan. Is it hard to sell the change in course at this point in time?

“1. Eddy Guerrero retained the IC title pinning Rob Van Dam in 10:17. Fast open and a decent match, but still disappointing overall. Van Dam had a major window of opportunity a few months ago and it now appears to be closed. Trying to recapture it may prove frustrating. Van Dam's kicks and punches looked bad and hurt the match. Van Dam did a Romero special and crowd liked how he flipped Guerrero over from it. Crowd was dead early except for spots. Picked up, with spots like Guerrero doing a hard power bomb off taking Van Dam off the top rope after he had crotched himself. Guerrero missed a frog splash. Van dam missed a frog splash. After a big lucha crisscross spot, Van Dam did a crossbody for a near fall. Van Dam did a backslide for a near fall, then Guerrero got the pin after a backslide with his feet on the ropes. **¾”

Do you agree that Van Dam’s window of being more than just another guy had closed at this point?

Having Eddie back helps the undercard tremendously. Did it take these guys a couple matches to really find their groove together?

“2. Trish Stratus retained the womens title over Stacy Keibler in 2:54. This match was more of a backdrop to start a Bubba Ray vs. D-Von feud, which, being interpromotional, is way early for this. D-Von told Vince that Bubba wasn't going to be there, and Bubba came out and quoted the "Thou shalt not lie" phrase. Match opened with Keibler missing a kick by four feet that Stratus sold like she was Ric Flair. Deacon

Batista bodyslammed Stratus but she still kicked out of the pin. This was not exactly the

way to get a new monster over. Stratus then got the pin after a mistimed facebuster. After the match, Bubba & D-Von faced off and shook hands. Batista went to attack Bubba, but he got rid of him with no problem. Not exactly the best second impression either. Eventually they double-teamed him after D-Von clotheslined him from behind. D-Von told Batista to get the table. Bubba then made a comeback on both until Deacon hit him with the collection box and they gave him a flapjack through the table. Aside from establishing Batista as a bit player from the start, the angle was okay. 1/4*”

Holy shit Jim. Trish Stratus kicking out of a bodyslam from Batista! What agent got fired for that?

Was it too soon to do something between the two Dudleys?

What was with the insistence of Stacy being in the ring? Is this back to Vince doesn’t believe in managers?

“Ric Flair and Vince had a love fest, which actually should be saved in a time capsule for future generations. Not that there was anything special about the skit, but the portrayal of two guys hugging while you could see they are going to backstab each other is so apropos of the pro wrestling business that it was more telling in a minute than almost anything you'd see.”

These two altogether…it’s just so good is it not?

“3. Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman beat Jeff & Matt Hardy in 4:47. Loud Goldberg chants during this match. Still think Lesnar is selling too much. At least his selling was better and the jawbreaker spot with Jeff was fine. Lesnar did whatever that move is on Jeff that is sort of like the old Marc Mero TKO, and Heyman screamed for the tag, and got the pin on Jeff. Nothing special as a match but seemed to accomplish what it set out to do. *¼”

Do you think this type of scenario where Brock kicks the shit out of the Hardys to give Heyman a win is what Lesnar needed as a monster? Do you agree he should’ve been just eating guys up instead of selling or was he going to have to start selling to get somewhere?

“Booker T was doing an interview in an NWO t-shirt when a hot mama showed up to seduce him and gave him her hotel room key. Later in the show, we were in the hotel room with the lights out in bed when suddenly Goldust was in bed. Booker turned the lights on. Goldust explained Booker should stay with him and not be part of the NWO. Booker ran out wearing almost nothing with a full ass shot. Goldust then said he had wasted a good nightie (that he was wearing over his wrestling costume).”

This is funny Jim but after putting Booker in the nWo…why treat him like a comedy guy?

“4. Steve Austin won a handicap match over Ric Flair & Big Show in 15:36. Crowd very into it for its spot on the card, but so weird to see Austin on this early again. Flair not just physically, but working wise, looked the best he's looked since coming to WWE. As much as I think he shouldn't be in the ring on TV and rarely on house shows and PPVs, he delivered strong here and was better in the ring than all but a few of the guys on the show. Show & Flair worked on Austin's leg. Austin came back with a figure four on Flair but Show legdropped him. Early in the match, when both guys were bouncing around for Austin, he put Flair in a figure four and Show started beating on him to start up the heat. After a Thesz press on Flair, and Jim Ross actually made a reference to the idea that Austin gave Flair a Thesz press (three of the all-time greats), X-Pac ran in but ended up kicking Show. Austin gave Show a stunner, then X-Pac and then Flair. To his credit, Austin was still selling the knee big as he went up the ramp to give the impression he didn't come out unscathed even though he won. ***¼”

Having the nWo with Ric Flair is…odd to say the least. But the combo of Thesz, Austin & Flair you make mention of here is really cool. But Austin vs. Flair as a singles would’ve been much better yes?

“For the second month in a row, the highlight of the show was Kurt Angle vs. Edge, probably the best WWE match so far this year.

5. Edge pinned Kurt Angle in the hair vs. hair match in 15:30. You have

to give Angle all the credit in the world here because he did the best job of elevating a new star for real (as opposed to the fake way it's usually done), all the way, without muffling it by confusing the finish, since Mick Foley and HHH and that was years ago. And that's also part of the problem. Whether Edge makes it or not, and it was very clear the idea of this match was to be his breakthrough, you can't fault Angle's work in trying. Early on, Edge tied Angle up in the ropes and hit him with a tackle. Angle broke free as he went for a second one and threw him over the top rope with a belly-to-belly. Bout slowed for a few minutes. Edge did another great belly-to-belly and a running dive over the top He hit a missile dropkick and fans bought it as a near fall. Angle hit a first german suplex. On a second one, Edge blocked it into a rolling cradle and then hit an implant DDT. Angle used a belly-to-belly superplex throwing Edge about three-quarters of the way across the ring. Edge accidentally speared ref Brian Hebner on the comeback. Angle did a sick looking german suplex. Angle grabbed a chair, but before he could use it, Edge speared him. He went for a second spear, but Angle kicked a field goal with him. Angle gave Edge a hard spear for a good near fall. He hit a german suplex and Angle slam for a great near fall. Angle locked on the ankle lock. Edge got out of it the first time with an enzuigiri. He put it on a second time. Edge kicked him off into the ropes, and as he rebounded, Edge got the pin with an inside cradle. After the match, Angle attacked him again, teasing he'd lay him out and not take the haircut, but Edge gave him another implant DDT (edgeacution). Angle managed to run off before getting the haircut. They did a skit later in the show where Edge was chasing him and Angle was hiding to avoid the haircut. Finally, before the main event, Angle got the advantage and brought Edge out and threw him off the ramp into a makeshift barber shop. But Edge came back and put Angle out again with a sleeper and shaved his head with him out. When Angle was revived he saw himself. Liked Angle putting him over so strong, but Angle did end up with Buddy Roberts heat, which is fun mid-card heat. Unfortunately, Angle has to be something other than fun mid card from this point forward. ****½”

Angle really does end up making Edge and getting his head shaved added another dimension to his act. Do you think Angle being super unselfish here in terms of making Edge helped him more than what Meltzer called fake being put over?

“There had been talk before hand of going with HHH vs. Jericho last, feeling that would be the match to steal the show and Hogan-Undertaker was going to stink, but when the reverse decision was made at Mania, the end result was a flat crowd reaction for the title match. In this case, HHH and Jericho had a hard time getting the crowd even going on early, after following the hair match, which was the show stealer.

HHH vs. Jericho was a very good match, but to many it was a letdown because the Hell in the Cell structure brings back memories of matches that it simply couldn't touch without resorting to major risks, which the company can't afford with the injury rate being what it is. The attempt was to use blood

and weapons to take the place of the sick bump spot. With HHH likely being groomed to

get the next title shot, it was his time to win.

6. HHH pinned Chris Jericho in 24:31 with a pedigree on the top of the cage to win the Hell in a Cell match. Crowd was quiet early. They worked hard but it was tough because seeing the structure, people expect someone to climb to the top and risk a broken neck, so all the wrestling they did early didn't move people. Jericho bled from the shoulder and left arm and HHH worked on the arm. Jericho catapulted HHH into the cell and he bled. Jericho pulled out a ladder and nailed him with it. He also threw the ladder over the top and it fell onto HHH on the floor. HHH came back by giving the ladder a brutal chair shot that Jericho sold. Tim White took actually the best looking bump of the match when Jericho collided with him on the apron and he flew into the cage, with the idea he hit his head on a thick metal part of the cage. White juiced. Jericho

then whipped him into the cage. While this bump looked routine, White didn't turn

enough and smashed into his right shoulder, which he's had previous surgery on, and he suffered a dislocated shoulder (he was hospitalized later and his eye was bothering him). Jericho nailed HHH with a chair shot, but no ref. HHH got a sledge hammer out and hit Jericho in the head, and Jericho bled. The refs eventually used bolt cutters to open the cage, allowing Jericho to get out. When HHH tried to follow him, Jericho slammed the door on his head. HHH got out and they ended up on the spanish announcers table, where Jericho teased a pedigree, but HHH instead gave him a DDT through the table. HHH then pulled out a barbed wire board. Jericho climbed to the top of the cage with HHH chasing him. When HHH got up, Jericho got the board and used it first. You can say don't try this at home 1,000 times, but when you do it yourself, they're trying it at home. Jericho got the walls on the cage. Ref Mike Ciota climbed the cage for the finish. HHH did a low blow, but his attempt at a pedigree was blocked and he took a backdrop. I know when Foley went through that cage it was gimmicked and no doubt this was sturdy, but they are brave men nonetheless. HHH came back with a shot with the barbed wire board for a near fall, then hit the pedigree on the top of the cage for the pin. ***¾”

This is the match that cost Tim White his career which is so sad. What did you think of these two and should they had gone on last?

“Because Hell in the Cell was expected to be long, bloody and brutal, the idea was to use the tag title match, where Rikishi's mystery partner turned out to be Rico, under the guise of him having no idea, to beat Billy & Chuck in what will likely be a very short comedy reign. This made it twice in the span of six days that WWE promised a big surprise and delivered a letdown, and the crowd clearly displayed its disappointment in this one. The problem is that whenever you tease mystery, people think of Bill Goldberg, Scott Steiner and Shawn Michaels, and even something like Booker T joining NWO, which at the right time with the right build-up could have been made to mean something, fell flat. Even in the WWF glory days of a few years ago, the surprise was almost inevitably a letdown, because people always seemed to expect Michaels.

7. Rico & Rikishi beat Billy & Chuck in 3:50 to win the WWE tag titles. Rico came out with Billy & Chuck. They paused for a long time before announcing Rikishi's partner, which Howard Finkel got from an envelope. Rico acted all freaked out to get the babyface pop, but the fans weren't buying this one. Crowd was dead. Chuck did belly to belly on Rikishi. Finish saw Rico hit Chuck with a spin kick when Rikishi moved. Rikishi pinned Chuck to get the belts. Rikishi left and danced. Rico left with Billy & Chuck, but was happy to grab his tag belt. -1/2*”

Why…have Rico & Rikishi go over? Doesn’t this sort of kill the gimmick? Were there plans already to split Rico, Billy & Chuck or was it just a tease or something? Does this make the tag team titles look…terrible?

“Undertaker won the WWE title from Hulk Hogan, as had been planned from the moment the decision was made last month to go with Hogan. What followed was a disappointing month for business, not all due to Hogan, but his numbers seemed to show a backlash against him as champion, even with gigantic pops at the arenas. Well, some arenas. The match had good reaction, but both guys looked ancient after the work underneath.

8. Undertaker pinned Hulk Hogan in 11:17 to win the title. Undertaker came out to new music. There is a feeling the missing ingredient is a weakness on the heel side. Jericho is trying but people don't see him as enough of a threat. Angle has been booked as a clown. Flair is great at being a heel, but nobody wants to hate him and his age hurts him as a physical threat. Everyone also wants to cheer Undertaker. Although he works strong by not doing much bumping or selling that the physical threat part he's got, but he's just been around so long he's a tired act on top. They took his entrance music away because he was getting huge face pops with it. If anything, that was living proof about entrance pops. He got zero reaction coming out, and it was the same guy, in his biggest match in a long time, only because he had different music. They traded belt shots early. Very much like one of those terrible Hogan WCW main events. Undertaker worked on his knee including wrapping it around the post. This match contained some of the worst brawling you'll ever see North of AAA. Hogan did the big boot poorly timed and went for a legdrop, but Undertaker blocked it and turned it into a half crab. Undertaker then delivered what may have been the worst choke slam in history.

Hogan just wouldn't go up and Undertaker didn't muscle him. Hogan kicked out of the

pin and Hulked up. Undertaker sold the Hogan comeback about as bad as anyone ever. He hit the legdrop, but Undertaker kicked out. Vince came out. Hogan kicked a chair into Undertaker's face but Vince had Earl Hebner distracted. This may have been the spot where Undertaker's lip was busted legit and he bit his tongue. Hogan pounded on Vince and gave him a legdrop. Undertaker then gave Hogan a chair shot to the upper back and a second choke slam, this was slightly better than the first but he put him down even easier, for the pin. You'd have to go back years to find a WWF PPV main event this bad. Undertaker pounded on Hogan using a chair after the match as well. 1/4*”

What was it about this match that just didn’t click? Age? Their bodies? Heat? The work underneath?

Judgment Day 02 ends up with 373,000 buys. It’s down 30,000 buys from Backlash and 37,000 buys from Judgment Day 01 with Taker & Kane against Hunter & Austin. Backlash 02 is in fact the last pay-per-view until No Way Out 2003 headlined by Rock vs. Hogan to draw at least 400,000 buys. Did you already start to feel the downturn in business?

The show was split in terms of reaction from the Wrestling Observer readers. 38.8% thumbs up, 28.9% thumbs down and 32.4% thumbs in the middle. What did you think of the show Jim?

With the drop in business, plane ride from hell, switch to the WWF to WWE, roster turnover, injuries, this has to be one of the most hectic times for you in talent relations does it not?