STW - Randy Orton 2002-2004 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

This week on Something to Wrestle we’ll be discussing Randy Orton’s 2002 - 2004. The impact that Randy had on the company as part of the young roster coming up from OVW all the way to being the youngest World Champion in WWE history at the time.

Randy is on the road with the WWF at the time to start 2002 working house shows and dark matches at TV tapings. He’s taking on the likes of Shawn Stasiak, Brock Lesnar, Sho Funaki, even Mr. Perfect. What was it about Randy at this time that told everyone he was ready for prime time…or was he?

The draft and brand extension is what’s going to free up the roster room for Randy and many of the young guns in OVW am I right Bruce?

How is it determined where someone like Randy and even Brock Lesnar would end up between Raw & Smackdown?

At the time OVW wasn't like NXT is today. No national TV trial for gimmicks. Does that hinder Orton?

The story has always been that Sean Waltman was the litmus test for talent coming into the company if they had it or didn’t have it. In this era as we get closer to his TV debut he’s working Christian, Waltman and Lance Storm. Were they the litmus test at this time?

Orton’s debut takes place on SmackDown on April 25th, and Orton gets the win over Hardcore Holly in just under 3 minutes. But the first part of this is Orton is backstage with Vince McMahon & Stacy Kiebler. Positioning Randy with them was on purpose wasn’t it?

Holly has a reputation of being stiff with rookies and even though Orton is a 3rd generation wrestler…was Orton different?

Orton is just a white meat babyface in his first couple of months on Smackdown. He even gets the Undertaker on a SmackDown episode when he’s World Champion and takes the loss in just over 5 minutes. What do you remember Taker saying about Orton at the time?

Orton begins to lose tag matches to D-Von & the now debuted Deacon Batista with various partners and Orton begins a slow heel turn blaming his partners for the losses. Did you think at this time Orton was more a natural heel?

Orton gets hurt working Batista at a house show with a bad concussion when he takes a bump off a clothesline that knocked him out and had to be stretchered out. Is this concerning or just happens sometimes?

Brock beats Orton in early September and you can see the difference between the two as Brock is already champion. What were the differences in Brock and Randy at this time?

Is the thought process these two would be at the top of the company for many years to come?

Orton is traded to Raw in September of 02 and defeats Stevie Richards in his Raw debut. Seems quick to be moving him to Raw does it not?

Orton gets wins back to back over Lance Storm & Christian on one episode of Raw but he suffers a shoulder separation which is something that will plague him for years to come. Right around this time there’s talk of a Horseman like stable being formed…did this injury make anyone question Orton’s spot?

While he’s on the shelf these RNN segments air giving the fans updates on his injury status.

Who’s idea was this gimmick? I mean this is some good shit Bruce.

While Orton recoups the plan is put in motion for Evolution to happen and on January 20th, Scott Steiner is taking on Batista when Randy Orton returns and attacks Steiner and later Ric Flair & Triple H join in the attack and Evolution is formed. Were Randy & Batista ready?

The point of this is to get them ready while being on the road with Hunter & Ric. What was their feedback on Randy?

Randy vs. Hunter has to be in someone’s mind for a major main event for a pay-per-view right?

Randy returns to the ring finally teaming with Batista and managed by Ric Flair in a losing effort on Raw to Scott Steiner & Booker T. Having Flair at ringside while these two are in a tag team has to be some of the best ways to learn right Bruce?

At Bad Blood in June of 03 Orton helps Flair gain a victory over Shawn Michaels. Was Shawn pushing to work with Randy?

Randy debuts the RKO on Raw in a win over Maven. Where did the idea come from to use this as a finisher?

Orton is really in the role of Arn Anderson in Evolution. Running interference for the world champ and being a solid worker underneath. Did you think that was possibly his ceiling around this time?

Mick Foley on Raw from MSG in late June is used to really heat up Randy. Orton attacks Foley and throws him down a flight of stairs. Where does the idea come from to use Foley to get Orton to the next level?

Was Mick excited about doing this with Randy? Was Randy worried about working with Mick?

Orton gets a real nice rub in July when in a 6-man elimination match between Evolution and all of the Dudleys…Orton pins and eliminates every single Dudley. Is this a sign that not only is the office going to give him a program with Foley but here he is beating a whole team by himself…that everyone is all in on Randy?

Randy Orton makes his pay-per-view debut…that’s right the first time he wrestles on pay-per-view at SummerSlam 2003 as part of the main event Elimination Chamber World Title match. If you take away the brand split there’s no way someone like Orton takes 18 months to get on pay-per-view right?

Orton ends up lasting 13 minutes in the Elimination Chamber before being eliminated by Goldberg in a match Triple H will end up retaining his title. Did Orton prove he was ready to be in the main event scene?

From there we move into the “Legend Killer” gimmick. Who’s idea was it to feed him all of these legends?

The Legend Killer gimmick starts off with him hitting an RKO on 80-year-old Moolah on an episode of Raw. Holy shit Bruce 80 year old Moolah…this is such a simple gimmick but it’s done so well it gets him over as a hated heel right away. Were there any legends that you wanted to use that you didn’t get to?

Orton gets a win over Shawn Michaels at Unforgiven 03 in about 19 minutes with a dusty finish when Flair puts Orton’s leg on the rope and Earl Hebner restarts the match and Orton gets a foreign object to hit Shawn with to get the win. A win over Shawn Michaels on pay-per-view is such a rare thing…was Shawn OK about putting Randy over here?

At Survivor Series Orton gets an opportunity to work an angle with Mark Cuban…the Dallas Mavericks owner where the show was…and hits him with an RKO. Putting something together like this with a billionaire…how does it all come together?

Later on Orton is on Team Bischoff in a winning effort over Team Austin as Orton pins Michaels with help from a Batista Bomb to get the victory for Bischoff - getting rid of Austin as Raw GM. Was it a battle in creative between those who wanted Batista to be the #2 guy in Evolution compared to Orton?

Orton goes back to being the Legend Killer by defeating Sgt. Slaughter on an episode of Raw. It was always Slaughter being brought back to lose to someone on their way up in this era. Was it just because he was in the best shape of all the agents?

Mick returns to the WWE in December and counts the pin in a 6-man tag match on Orton with RVD hitting the five star frog splash. Foley looks in better shape and you can see that the grooming of Mick and Orton together is taking place. Is it thought that maybe a singles match at the Rumble or WrestleMania was in the works? Or was the plan always for Rock & Sock against Evolution at Mania 20?

Orton wins the IC title from Rob Van Dam at Armageddon on the same night Flair & Batista win the tag team titles and Hunter wins the World title giving Evolution all the major titles. It’s always been said Vince doesn’t like to use anyone’s ideas from outside of the company but this just screams Horsemen does it not?

The next night on Raw Foley vs. Orton is scheduled as the main event. If Foley wins Bischoff is fired and if he loses he’s fired. Well Foley just rolls out of the ring and walks away from the ring and is counted out and fired. This is one of those angles that doesn’t end the show on a high note but it’s a major creative play. Did you think this was going to work?

In Long Island Orton defeats Rob Van Dam after sending a limo to Mick Foley’s house to pick him up and bring him to the arena and Foley doesn’t show. Is there a fear with this creative that the crowd reject Foley and start to cheer Orton?

At the Royal Rumble in Philadelphia Orton begins as #2 with Benoit being #1. Orton eliminates 5 men before Mick Foley returns to a gigantic pop and ends up taking himself and Orton out with the Cactus clothesline. Was this the angle that proved to you that Orton could be THE guy?

The crazy thing is he’s only 23 here. Was Randy emotionally mature at this time?

The build for WrestleMania 20 kicks into high gear in Atlanta on March 1st when the Rock returns on Raw to help Foley from an attack by Evolution. Was Rocky impressed by Randy when he saw him?

At WrestleMania 20 Orton gets the big victory with a RKO in the battle between Evolution and the Rock & Sock Connection. This is Batista & Orton’s WrestleMania debuts and it’s in MSG and here they are working two of the biggest stars in company history and they get the win. Orton is well on his way to winning the World Title at this point right?

Orton’s next big test is a one-on-one match at Backlash between him & Mick Foley in a hardcore match. You got barbed wire, thumbtacks, and Orton retains his title after going into the thumbtacks and hitting Foley with the RKO. The image of Orton going for a RKO and missing and landing flat into the thumbtacks is really burned into everyone’s mind. What do you remember of Randy after this show?

Orton continues on his path of embarrassing legends when he spits in the face of Harley Race in Topeka, KS. How the hell did you convince Harley Race to do this?

Orton would hold the title for 210 days before he drops the title to Edge at Vengeance. That is the longest title reign in 7 years for the IC title. Did the belt make Orton or did Orton make the belt?

Orton drops the title because he’s on his way to a World Title match at SummerSlam. Orton gets the title shot by winning a battle royal on July 26th and will take on Chris Benoit for the World Title. Was there any hesitation on putting the title on Orton?

Well in Toronto Randy Orton becomes the youngest WWE champion in company history by pinning Benoit in over 20 minutes with an RKO. After the match they shake hands as it seems like a passing of the torch between the two.

And the next night Orton gets the win in a rematch and Evolution … not happy that Orton is champion when it should be Hunter … turns on him in another classic angle. Was this…too soon?

How tough is it to be a heel this long…and then in one fell swoop on your first night as champion you’re turned babyface?

Is this a regret?

Orton responds the next week and refuses to hand the World Title over to Hunter, spits at him in his face and nails him with the title before he runs off to avoid the other members of Evolution. Babyface champion running from the heels isn’t the recipe for a top guy to last being a top guy long is it?

Orton drops the title at Unforgiven to Hunter with a chair shot and a pedigree into the chair. Orton goes from having a really long IC title reign to losing the title on his first pay-per-view defense. Why now?

Did you know at this point Batista was going to be the guy for Mania in the next year and the title had to go back to Hunter?

Batista pins Orton to make sure Orton is unable to be one of Hunter’s challengers at Taboo Tuesday. I understand you’re trying to stack the odds against Randy but these are some big losses. Were they creating sympathy for him?

At Taboo Tuesday Orton ends up being in the main event but it’s against Flair in a steel cage match. Orton gets the win with the RKO and afterwards Flair and Orton shake hands. This doesn’t really end up going anywhere but do you know what the original plan was for?

Hunter tells Orton he’ll take on Flair on Raw and if Orton wins he’ll get a title shot against him at Survivor Series. If he loses he’ll never get another shot as long as Hunter is champion…and Flair wins! Does this hurt Orton?

The match for Survivor Series is made of Team Orton taking on Team Hunter. Orton has Benoit, Maven & Jericho on his team while Hunter has Batista, Gene Snitsky & Edge. The stip is whatever team wins each member gets to control Raw for one week. When Orton becomes GM his big thing was…a lingerie fashion show between Melina, Candice, Maria, Christy Hemme & Stacy Kiebler. Little lackluster isn’t it?

The main event features Benoit, Edge & Hunter and it’s a controversial finish with Edge submitting to the Crippler Crossface while he’s on top of Benoit getting a pin so the title is declared vacant and will be put up for grabs at New Year’s Revolution in an Elimination Chamber match.

Orton closes out the year working with Hunter on all the house shows. How did Randy grow from his call up to the end of 04?