Grilling JR - WrestleMania 23 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

This week on Grilling JR we’re taking our final look back this year at a WrestleMania and it’ll be WrestleMania 23 from Ford Field in Detroit, Michigan.

This is a historic WrestleMania for so many reasons as we’ll get into Jim Ross but this is supposedly supposed to be your last. It’s been reported many times after the fact that the plan was with you being inducted into the Hall of Fame that you would ride off into the sunset as a commentator. Was that ever conveyed to you beforehand?

The build to WrestleMania really begins back on January 8th when Vince McMahon scheduled an imposter Donald Trump to take on an imposter Rosie O’Donnell. This segment is long viewed as one of the worst in WWE history and even garners chants of “TNA” during it. It’s crazy to think one of the highest drawing shows of all-time with the most pay-per-view buys of all-time…begins with this DUD of an angle isn’t it JR?

Tickets originally go on sale back on November 11th, 2006 and 50,000 tickets are sold before literally anything is announced. How strong is the WrestleMania brand at this time?

Eventually the show will sell out with a supposed 80,103 people in attendance. WrestleMania attendance figures have been disputed for as long as I’ve been a wrestling fan. Have you ever been privy to what a show has actually drawn compared to what’s been announced?

The show grosses $5.38 million in ticket sales which blows by the previous record of $3.9 million held by WrestleMania X8. Do you think Trump vs. McMahon was the deciding factor in that?

It’s the 20th anniversary of WrestleMania 3 so it’s extra special were in Detroit, right JR?

As the Trump - McMahon program continues to build there are other things brewing. Triple H’s injury the year before had left John Cena without an opponent. Early on the speculation for Trump vs. McMahon was going to be Shawn Michaels with Trump against Booker with Vince. Is that how you remember it?

Well as the story goes in the Observer, after Hunter’s injury - HBK catches a lot of fire and steam working against Rated RKO and it’s brought up that Michaels would be a better fit taking on Cena for the WWE Title. With hindsight it’s easy to say this is the correct call but at the time did you think it was the right move?

There’s speculation going into the Rumble that the office had lost some faith in Batista with his title run and the plan of Taker losing his streak to Batista to really cement Dave as a top guy was starting to falter. Looking back, was Batista not ready to be the top guy coming back from his injury?

Could you have envisioned Taker losing to Batista at Mania?

It comes down to Taker and Michaels as the last two in the Rumble and this epic showdown would lead to 2 WrestleMania matches years later that would end Shawn Michaels’ career. You had to feel like something special was going on between those two in the Rumble am I right?

Taker wins and the tease of Taker determining which champion between John Cena and Batista is an interesting story since Taker and Cena never had a high profile match at the time. Do you think there was ever any plan on putting Taker and Cena together?

Taker does choose the World Title to take on Batista while Michaels is entered in a three-way match with Edge & Orton to determine the Raw #1 contender. Michaels gets the win and Cena vs. Michaels is set.

Between the Battle of the Billionaires, the World Title match with title vs. streak and Cena vs. Michaels, in your mind what was the real main event for the show?

It was reported at the time that Batista & Undertaker were upset when they were told they were not going to be the main event. Do you think that lit a fire under their asses for their match?

Trump appears on Raw on January 29th - during Vince McMahon’s “Fan Appreciation Night” and drops real money from the ceiling to the fans to really ignite the feud. With it being the 30th anniversary of WrestleMania 3 did ever hear of any talks between the WWE and Hulk Hogan being a part of the Battle of the Billionaires?

The Observer reports at the time that there was talk of Big Show and Hulk Hogan but Show’s back was so bad he wasn’t willing to sign a new deal with the WWE. Do you think the show missed this type of spectacle?

It’s announced on Raw on February 12th that the Battle of the Billionaires will now be a hair match and the losing billionaire will be shaved bald. Do you think the match needed this or was this the thing that really pushed it over the edge to being the biggest pay-per-view ever at that point?

It’s known at the time that Lashley is the guy to be the babyface as he was a big part of Vince’s focus. What was it about Lashley that Vince was ready to strap the rocket to him?

Saturday Night’s Main Event is scheduled to be on NBC to help promote WrestleMania but is eventually canceled according to the Observer for a lack of ad sales. The Donald Trump gimmick is really put together by NBC Universal as a vehicle to promote Trump’s reality show, “The Apprentice” at the time. Is there fear that the show isn’t going to be what it’s trending like or is this just a sign that WWE isn’t mainstream enough?

Roddy Piper announces Dusty Rhodes as the first inductee in this year’s Hall of Fame in Portland. Rhodes comes out and both him & Piper get attacked and laid out by Umaga as the push for him to be Vince McMahon’s man in the Battle of the Billionaires begins. It’s all entertainment but did there need to be a heat segment instead of a celebratory segment for Dusty?

ECW is running an angle where the New Breed and the ECW Originals are at odds against each other. Do you think anyone cared about that story?

At this point in time were you watching all of the product between SmackDown and ECW or just Raw?

A switch is made after the lackluster pay-per-views of separate brand pay-per-views back to all brands being involved. Is this an admission that the brand extension is really just dead at this point?

Steve Austin is brought in to be the special guest referee for the Battle of the Billionaires. Was Steve excited to be back in a major way at this show?

Money in the Bank is expected to be expanded from the usual 6 wrestlers from the 2 prior years to 8 this year. Is this just because there’s so much talent in the company?

The card starts to come together as Kane vs. Great Khali is announced, and Melina vs. Ashley Massaro for the Women’s title is also announced. Melina beat Mickie James for the title and Ashley’s Playboy spread is due to come out not long after Mania. Was Ashley ready for primetime as they like to say to be wrestling on a WrestleMania regardless of a playboy spread coming out?

At No Way Out the main event is the two WrestleMania title matches teaming up to face the other when Shawn Michaels & John Cena defeat The Undertaker & Batista when Cena pins Taker after Batista hits Taker with a spinebuster. Did Batista need a heel edge considering the two title matches were babyfaces against each other?

Curt Hennig is announced as being a member of the upcoming class of the Hall of Fame as well and the rumors are yourself & Jerry Lawler will be inducted as well. Do you hear the rumor or are you asked first?

Is there a sense of disappointment knowing you & King are going in together instead of separate years where you could’ve inducted each other?

You had said for a long time that you would never get in because you had so many issues with Vince. Was that just a gut feeling?

Meltzer writes in the Observer that all you’ve done at this point is sign one-year deals where they normally have everyone signing three-year deals and that they were already preparing for Cole to replace you on Raw. But still…at the end of the day knowing you were going in had to be a big deal did it not?

Did you request Austin to induct you?

The story has always been that Lawler requested Lance Russell but the WWE forced William Shatner on him. Do you think that’s something that should be taken into consideration when someone requests to have someone induct them?

Bobby Lashley defends his ECW Title against Hardcore Holly in a steel cage match and the hottest part of this angle with Lashley and Umaga takes place. Lashley gets the win but Umaga is outside the ring taunting Lashley when Lashley takes off and flies through the cage and smashes the cage and himself into Umaga. What a sight this is don’t you think JR?

Just a week later on Raw Steve Austin is announced officially on Raw as the special guest referee and the pop is gigantic. The whole setup with Shane and Vince thinking they had it in the bag and then Austin’s music hits. It’s all really well done.

The storyline for Cena vs. Shawn is building quite well as well. They win the tag team titles from Rated RKO but Orton & Edge start playing psychology warfare with Cena…that Shawn has turned on his all partners and his friends in the past and you see clips of Shawn breaking up the Rockers, Triple H, in the nWo, but Shawn makes a promise to John. They’ll be partners until Mania and when Mania comes … the WWE title is on the line and all bets are off. What did you think of their story?

For Money in the Bank these 8 competitors are geared up for the chance at winning the contract for a World Title match whenever wanted. It’s Edge vs. CM Punk vs. King Booker vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Matt Hardy vs. Finlay vs. Randy Orton. You got some ring veterans, some daredevils, and some guys who are looking to make their names. Rated RKO break up before this match to add some extra heat to them. Was there someone you thought who could use the break to win and elevate or cement themselves in the upper card?

Ernie Ladd passes away on March 10th after a near four year battle with cancer. Can you talk about the impact Ernie had on your & your career?

The Sheik is announced as being an inductee into the Hall of Fame. Can you put into terms what Sheik did for the city of Detroit as a wrestling territory?

Mr. Fuji is also going to be inducted. The constant ribber and manager and former tag team champion…what was your experience with Mr. Fuji?

Nick Bockwinkel is also announced. Was there a more intelligent man in this industry than Bockwinkel?

At the go-home Raw…you’re announced for the Hall of Fame. Let’s play the clip:

Jim Ross's Hall of Fame INTR0

The standing ovation after is what is reportedly rumored to keep you on Raw. What goes through your head with the standing ovation afterwards from the crowd?

From the Observer: “It was quite amazing. It was, by far, the single greatest crowd reaction to anyone in the Hall of Fame. It was one of those deals that you knew would be big, but it was so much of a spontaneous crowd reaction that you hardly expected to be at that level. It was the

closest thing to a Hogan or Austin return level of pop. Part of it was that they had Austin, Rock, Foley and HHH all over the video putting him over as the greatest wrestling announcer ever. The video made him appear to be the Vin Scully of wrestling. He seemed moved and blown away by the reaction. I know 1 was. All I could think about in the amazement of all this is trying to remember the number of times, including discussions all of nine weeks ago, of wanting to replace him.”

The go-home Raw also features a rematch of the No Way Out main event and Shawn does what he promised he wouldn’t do and superkicks Cena to lead to Batista pinning Cena. So the title matches are really heated up here. Perfect go-home you think?

Hall of Fame night comes. Are you nervous? What are your instructions for your speech?

How did it feel to be inducted by Steve?

Were you happy with your speech?

Is this a crowning moment for you in your career?

Let’s get to the show Jim!

The show is highly rated by Wrestling Observer readers as it comes in a thumbs up to 77% of the response.

And we start with the attendance. It’s announced as 80,103 fans but Meltzer reports it as the 3rd biggest show in company history behind…well Meltzer claims it was the 92 SummerSlam in Wembley that had the most fans and the Silverdome Mania 3 was only 78,000 fans and says 23 only had 68,500 fans. Had you ever heard that story?

The gate is $5,380,000 and in terms of pay-per-view buys its the highest of all-time for a WWE event at the time. 1,188,000 purchases on pay-per-view. WrestleMania XXVIII with Cena vs. Rock is the only show to get more pay-per-view purchases.

From the Observer: “About the closest thing to late controversy were last days discussions since Shane McMahon wanted to be in the ring opening the show and welcoming the fans to "Wrestlemania," reprising the often shown clip of his father doing the same thing 20 years earlier at the Pontiac Silverdome. Evidently, the anti-Shane forces were strong enough, because when the show opened, there was Vince McMahon, in the ring, just like 20 years ago, introducing Aretha Franklin to sing "America the Beautiful." This was a significant top of discussion as on the day before, day of and day after, several people within the company talked about it as

if it was a very significant piece of evidence regarding who will have power in the Future.”

Did you hear this? And man this is kind of calling the future isn’t it…

“A. The only dark match was Ric Flair & Carlito beating Gregory Helms & Chavo Guerrero in a lumberjack match. There was originally talk of a tag team Battle Royal. Instead, all the wrestlers not booked on the card were made lumberjacks here. Carlito pinned Helms with a back cracker. The finish was shown on Mania. With Mania ending about 20 minutes early, this could have easily been on the show.”

It’s odd looking back that the year before Ric Flair’s retirement he’s on the pre-show isn’t it?

“1. Mr. Kennedy won the Money in the Bank ladder match in 19:05 over Edge, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, C.M. Punk, Randy Orton, King Booker and Fit Finlay. This didn't feel like a match as much as a collection of high spots. It was clear the idea here was not to copy spots that had been done before. This didn't have the crazy being knocked off the ladder and flying outside the ring or being crotched spots in other Mania ladder matches. It really built to one spectacular spot, which was Jeff Hardy coming off very close to the top off a 15 foot ladder, probably 13 feet and jumping off with a cannonball like sitting splash onto Edge, who was laying on a ladder that was draped between the ring apron and the guard rail. Edge was stretchered out, thus ending his Wrestlemania winning streak at five shows. Edge was pretty messed up that night at the Wrestlemania party, and it was feared he got a concussion from the bump. All six announcers were doing this match, which is usually a recipe a disaster with constant bickering and talking over each other, but I guess they were told ahead of time to not detract from the match, and it worked out fine. Orton went on an RKO spree, nailing Matt, Kennedy and then doing one on Punk from about eight feet in the air off a ladder. Booker delivered a book end from about halfway up a ladder on Orton. Finlay came in and he was bleeding from the forehead and his left eye was developing a nasty mouse. He gave Matt the Celtic cross on the ladder. Since the gimmick was that Finlay doesn't like to climb, he sent Hornswoggle up the ladder. He got to the top but was too short to get the briefcase. Kennedy ended up giving him his forward front flip Samoan drop like move off the ladder. Finlay climbed but Punk dropkicked the ladder. There were several pairings of one or two guys climbing and another person tipping it over until Kennedy knocked Punk off the ladder and climbed up to win. His catch phrase is doing to be Mr. Money in the bank ..... bank. **** 1 /4”

Was Kennedy the right move here compared to those like Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton or CM Punk?

Where would you rank this with money in the bank ladder matches you saw?

“2. Great K.hali pinned Kane in 5 :31. Just terrible. Jim Ross even got in the Bowling Shoe reference when it came to Khali's offense. And his selling is far worse than his offense. The match was to build to the slam, with the idea of repeating the Hogan slam on Andre. But it got no pop. Khali won with the tree slam. -*”

I mean what else is there to say?

“3. Chris Benoit beat MVP to retain the U.S. title in 9:19. Good match but it would have been better longer. The story here was that MVP was hanging with Benoit when it came to mat wrestling. Benoit won with three German suplexes and a diving head-butt for the pin. For years I've thought Benoit needed to score some pins with the diving head-butt to gel the move over as a potential finisher. Unfortunately, by never winning with the move, people were expecting a kick out. *** ¼”

This is the last WrestleMania match for Chris Benoit as later that year the tragedy would take place. MVP 15 years later is a top manager in the WWE. Did you think there was more for MVP at this point?

Next the Hall of Famers were introduced to the crowd. How did it feel to hear Howard Finkel introduce you?

“4. Undertaker pinned Batista in 15:47 to win the World title. This match had the most heat of anything on the show. The last few months of Undertaker push has made him the most popular character in the promotion. Even though John Cena is the one who carries the business, in that he draws the new fans, sells tickets and merchandise, even in the late 90s run with Austin, I don't think Undertaker has ever been as over as he is now. They had a poll and 82% of the audience thought Undertaker was going to win. JBL kept going on about how Undertaker's streak was not only the greatest streak in sports entertainment, but in sports in general. The big surprise here wasn't that the match was good, because they were going all out, but how fast paced it was. These are two guys, both probably 280 pounds or more and it wasn't as if they just kept it going, they were going fast. Batista powerslammed Undertaker through the ECW announcers table. What a shame, given that Joey Styles and Tazz only had one match to call and it hadn't happened yet. They traded near falls with Undertaker doing a power bomb out of the comer, Batista doing a spinebuster and Undertaker doing a choke slam. Batista also used a spear and a Batista bomb for near falls. Crowd was into the near falls strong. Undertaker finally put him away with a tombstone. ****”

This is the second time Taker has won the World Title at a WrestleMania but what a match JR. 15-0 Taker would be coming out of this. Before this his streak had his matches with Hunter in Houston, Flair in Toronto, Randy Orton in LA…but is this the best one up until this point?

Then the ECW match came…

“5. Rob Van Dam & Sabu & Tommy Dreamer & Sandman beat Elijah Burke & Marcus Cor Von & Kevin Thorn & Matt Striker in 6:25. Crowd was completely dead for the match, treating it like intermission. But you can't fault the guys and they had a good match given the limitations of time and that they were put in a position to not get over as the "come down" after a main event. The heels got heat on Dreamer. RVD made a comeback. Sabu did a flip dive on Cor Yon and Dreamer did a DDT on Striker. Everyone brawled on the floor except Van Dam and Striker, and Van Dam gave him a frog splash for the win. Joey Styles kept putting over what a big deal it was that ECW was part of Wrestlemania. ** ¼”

This just really didn’t have a place on the card compared to the rest but as Meltzer notes it was good for a comedown spot was it not?

“6. Bobby Lashley pinned Umaga in 13:04 in the match with Donald Trump's hair vs. Vince McMahon's hair. It worked as a spectacle with the interference, Trump's getting physical, etc. , but for two guys in by far the biggest match of their careers, I was disappointed. I don't think Lashley is ready to hang to the level of his push, even though they couldn't be booking him stronger. He clearly has the athletic ability and a look that can't be beat. Whether he'll ever have the charisma is up in the air, but I sense it's more his being rushed that's the problem than they are hitching their train to the wrong wagon. When Trump came out, they dropped money from the ceiling again. Shane McMahon came out. Umaga was beating on Lashley in the comer and Austin pulled Umaga off by pretending to hook him by the eye. Umaga jumped Austin and eventually laid him out with a Samoan spike. Shane and Umaga then beat up on Lashley. Vince threw in a garbage can. They put the garbage can in front of Lashley's face and Shane did the coast-to-coast dropkick. Shane took off his shirt and revealed a referee shirt. Umaga used a splash off the top and Shane went to count the fall, but at the two count of two, Austin pulled Shane out. Austin threw Shane out of the ring. Trump went to the other side of the ring and ran and gave Vince a clothesline. While on the ground, Trump threw a few shots and didn't pull them very well. Later that night, Vince's eye was swelling up, although with make- up, he didn't look bad on television the next night. Umaga went for another Samoan spike on Austin, but Austin ducked it and hit the stunner. Lashley hit the spear on Umaga and Austin counted the pin. Vince ran off, but Lashley sprinted

after him and brought him back to the ring and put him in the barber chair.

Somewhere in here Austin gave Vince a stunner. Trump and Lashley shaved Vince's head. They did all the stuff from the old days, like showing Vince his bald head in a mirror. After it was over, Austin gave Trump a stunner and Trump's selling was so bad he made Linda McMahon look like a great wrestler. ***”

Do you agree with Meltzer that Lashley wasn’t ready at this point? With all the smoke and mirrors it was what it was but it was all about the head shaving and finally we get the age old question answered - yes it was always Vince’s hair…

Still surreal to see a future president of the united states involved in this isn’t it?

“7. Melina pinned Ashley to keep the women's title in a lumberjills match in 3: 13. The women at ringside was just an excuse for them to all dress up. Melina did a giant swing. After Ashley missed an elbow drop, Melina

pinned her with a rolling reverse cradle holding the tights. All the women hit the ring and fought. Ashley looked like an amateur out there. DUD”

This is what it is but my goodness has women’s wrestling come a long way has it not JR?

“8. John Cena beat Shawn Michaels in 28:20 to keep the WWE title. Cena got the most elaborate entrance, race car driving a Ford Mustang around the streets, turning fast corners, and driving through the glass staging in front of the people. Most of the entrance was pre-taped long before the show started, and it was likely it wasn't Cena doing the driving except in the final segment because the jump-cut was evident. The unscripted moment of the show came as a British fan hit the ring. Mike Chioda grabbed a front face lock. In the ring, Chioda wanted the match to start but Michaels sat on the top turnbuckle and wasn't going to start until the guy was gone. The crowd was brutal to Cena. He was booed far more than anyone on the show. From all accounts, it was much louder live than it appeared on TV. Even the kids were booing him. The company knew ahead of time. They played his music super loud so you couldn't hear the initial crowd reaction, and apparently dialed it back during the match. Because they went so long, they started slow. Michaels did a five knuckle shuffle but accidentally superkicked Chioda. With the ref down, Cena went for an FU, but Michaels countered with a botched DDT. No ref to count the pin. Michaels gave Cena a piledriver on the ring steps, and cut the back of Cena's head. Michaels had Cena down when ref Jack Doan ran in, but of course Cena kicked out. Then there was one excellent exchange of moves and counters that pretty much made the match. The key spots were Michaels kicking out of an FU while Cena kicked out of a superkick. In the end, Cena used an FU and got the STFU in the middle and Michaels tapped out. After the match, Cena went to shake hands but Michaels walked away. The crowd booed Cena's winning a lot, but they seemed happy they saw a strong main event. ****”

Was this the match that made Cena seem like a really good worker. Cena & Hunter the year before was good but this is another level.

The fan running in…does it get tense in the ringside area afterwards?

Do you think the goal in Shawn’s mind was to cement Cena as THE guy?

What say you Jim? If you can separate your Hall of Fame induction from the show…does this seem like a Mania?