83 Weeks - Sid [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Let’s get to the topic on hand today Eric, and that’s someone who is rumored to be inducted into the Hall of Fame to join you…Sid Vicious.

When you join WCW Sid has already left WCW for the World Wrestling Federation and he debuts as Sid Justice. When did you first see Sid?

Sid blows in and out of the WWF in what feels like record time for a top guy. Between feuding with Hulk Hogan and main eventing WrestleMania at the Hoosier Dome, a proposed program with the Ultimate Warrior and supposed drug test violation…he ends up back playing softball until WCW calls in 1993.

Did you reach out to Sid? Vice versa? Does anyone warn against using him?

It’s reported in early May that there was a preliminary agreement reached between WCW and Sid. Do you remember what the agreement was?

Col. Robert Parker announces on Saturday Night that he went down to Memphis after calling Elvis Presley and found the greatest monster in wrestling today and he’ll be on television soon. Col. Robert Parker and Sid together…seems like an odd connection. Was this the best way to bring Sid back?

It’s reported in the Observer that Parker coming in and introducing Sid was at the behest of Sid. Is that how you remember this all coming together?

Robert Fuller ends up being a long time character in WCW. What did you think of the Colonel?

It’s reported in the Observer that the original plan for Beach Blast … taking place in Gulfport, MS for those keeping track … is for Sting & the Warrior to team up and take on Sid & Vader. Do you remember negotiating with Warrior at the time?

Davey Boy Smith ends up taking Warrior’s spot … that probably made for a better match right?

Sid makes his actual return at Slamboree when he comes out and gets a huge face pop and squashes Van Hammer in 35 seconds. Meltzer would write, “I can’t imagine what gets into the people who run this company to wave red flags at the DEA.”

That’s probably the best Sid match to put out there right…quick squash with the powerbomb right?

Sid & Vader are called the “Masters of the Power Bomb” and in the same breathe…it’s reported in the Observer that fans were singing “Take Me Out to the Ball Game” at Sid during TV tapings because of his softball exploits. Do you really think that happened?

Alright Eric let’s get into it…the Beach Blast mini movie. The long time mocked and shit on…it’s written in the Observer it cost $80,000 to film and produce this…who authorized it? Why? What did you think of it?

Sid & Vader confront Sting & Bulldog | WCW Saturday Night 6/19/93

Golly Eric. Did you think this would sell pay-per-views?

From the Observer: “the hierarchy of World Championship Wrestling needs a thorough housecleaning.

The problem isn't trying to identify who wrote and came up with the scenario in which Sting, Davey Boy Smith, Sid Vicious, Big Van Vader, Harley Race and Col. Rob Parker were involved in a reported $80,000 mini-movie production to build up the 7/18 Beach Blast PPV main event. The problem wasn't even in the decision to go with the same idea (a mini-movie) to build up the PPV for the third time in nine months, after the second such expensive attempt failed miserably. The problem is with an organization which has so many supposed checks and balances in its hierarchy yet absolutely no understanding of what its product is, what its audience is, and that none of those checks and balances stopped the mini-movie that everyone I've spoken with both in and out of the organization admits was a total embarrassment, from airing.

For those of you lucky enough to not see the most flawed PPV angle in history, it went something like this. The heels, mad because Sting & Smith didn't show up for a pep rally, went to a mysterious island where Sting & Smith were doing charity work. It's bad enough when wrestling people and other celebrities use charities simply to promote themselves in a positive light as a reaction to negative publicity, but at least in those cases they do donate time and/or effort to charity. In this case, the "charity work" consisted of playing volleyball with some child actors. Parker assured the rest of the heels that he had a plan that would keep Sting & Smith from appearing at Beach Blast. Little did he know that plan would only keep viewers from buying the show. It wound up with a dwarf wearing an eye patch swimming with a shark fin putting a bomb on a boat that Sting & Smith used to get to Gilligan's Island. Two very young girls saw the dwarf. The heels then took a boat ride to Gilligan's Island, and the only thing positive about that is that they didn't let Harley drive the boat. After a confrontation where the heels demanded the faces retire and the kids acted like they were going to cry if the faces would retire, one of the little kids told Sting about the funny man who was hanging around the boat. As Sting went to check, somehow one of the little girls told Smith about a ticking noise, and Einstein himself started sprinting down the beach, which was a sight in itself, and knocked Sting out of harms way just seconds before the bomb exploded and the boat blew up.”

That debuts at the Clash which also features this 6-man…Vader, Sid & Rick Rude taking on Dustin Rhodes, Sting & Davey Boy Smith. Thankfully everyone survived the blast so they could wrestle here. From Meltzer: “Good pacing and the action was largely good although the Sid Vicious package has the world's greatest wrapping but it totally empty inside. Finish saw Vader hit Rhodes with the briefcase Rick Rude brought in and Rude scored the pin. After the match Smith got stuff power bombed until Sting got the briefcase and ran the heels off. ***.”

Don’t know what else there is to say about this show…so let’s move on…

Oh…even better Eric…from the Observer:

“An almost but-not-quite debut of a new tag team called The Possee (formerly the Ebony Experience in GWF) managed by Col. Rob Parker. The original idea was for The Possee to be brought out in chains and shackles, to give the visual impression of a white southerner leading two black men in chains and shackles. The idea, which was the brainchild of one Sid Vicious who was so impressed when working with the duo in a tag team match at the Adkisson Memorial show in Dallas on 4/2, had wanted to bring the duo in with the gimmick of them being escaped murderers managed by Parker (Robert Fuller). The idea was all dressed up and ready to go on television when Eric Bischoff, who apparently didn't know the extent of the angle, nixed it just as it was about to be taped. When WCW President Bill Shaw found out about the idea which almost ran, which no doubt would have caused even more negative phone calls, he found a finger-pointing upper brass all trying to blame others for giving the approval of the idea. While Booker T and Stevie Ray are going to keep their jobs with WCW, when they appeared at the television tapings Monday night, they were instead called Chitown Heat (yeah, I know the punch line, they're bringing in the Power Twins as Music City Showdown and renaming The Black Hearts "Halloween Havoc") and had masking tape over their prisoner uniform numbers and they will no longer be pushed as former prisoners.”

Please put this on Sid Eric…please please please.

Like why did no one else think to stop this?

So Sid shouldn’t be the head of creative right?

At Beach Blast Sid & Vader take on Davey Boy & Sting in the main event.

“8. Sting & Davey Boy Smith beat Big Van Vader & Sid Vicious in 16:42. It was an amazing contrast just how up the crowd got when these four came out as compared with the previous two matches (Rhodes vs. Rude Iron Man and Flair vs. Windham). The heels dominated almost from start-to-finish. The face's hot tags were immediately cut off. Vader was the star of the show once again. The match itself was good, but not on the level of what a PPV main event match should be overall until the last minute, which was about as perfect as it can be. Vader did a few squash moves on Smith, and Sting made the save. Vicious came in and knocked Sting onto the ramp where the two brawled. At this point, Vader did a moonsault on Smith. Sting bodyslammed Vicious on the ramp and sprinted down the ramp and dove over the top rope onto Vader at the perfect moment just before the three count. As Vader went for a back splash, Smith hooked him and pinned him with a crucifix. ***¾”

Did Sid need a win here or was it more important for Davey Boy to get this win?

What is your expectation of the draw here? Between the big money spent on the video and now this you had to have been expecting a big draw right?

Well it’s reported that it draws 100,000 buys…same as Slamboree. Is this a massive disappointment? Internally does anyone bring up spending all that money and not increasing the buyrate at all?

Sid begins a singles program with Sting. Is there worry of doing the same shit over and over again considering this was a big deal 3 years before?

Harlem Heat & Sid headline a 6-man against Ric Flair, Davey Boy Smith & Sting on a house show. That’s a big deal for Harlem Heat at this point in their career. How big a part of that was Sid pushing for them?

You don’t normally hear of Sid giving or “caring” about the business but here he is getting Robert Parker and Harlem Heat in and in big spots. Do you think there’s a side of Sid that many in and out of the business don’t know?

In the Omni on August 15th it’s headlined by Sting & Davey Boy against Sid & Vader and Vader gets the pin on Davey Boy but it only draws 1,000 fans. Is that an indication of the business and WCW or the guys in the main event?

The Shockmaster debuts in the infamous angle and you can hear Sid loudly go, “Oh god…” Did Sid ever talk to you about Fred Ottman busting through the wall and falling down?

Wrestle War will feature the Shockmaster although he’s the clumsy Uncle Fred by the time we get to the show…with Sting, Davey Boy & Dustin Rhodes to take on Sid, Vader & Harlem Heat. Are you gearing up for Sid to be World Champion at this point?

Speaking of which…from the Observer: “Biggest news of the past week is that Sid Vicious walked out on 9/1 in Dothan, AL at a television taping, although at press time it appears everything was worked out. Vicious, according to several on site sources, refused to take a drug test (he had missed the mandatory drug test some weeks back because WCW had scheduled him for a public appearance) and said he'd take in a few weeks. Apparently he was told that he'd put it off long enough and if he didn't take it then, he'd be fired, and before being fired, he instead walked out. If it hadn't have been rectified, it would have been a disaster since Vicious was all over the pre-taped television and scheduled for the main event on the next two PPV shows (War Games and a singles main event against Sting at Halloween Havoc) that have already had ad slicks sent to the cable companies.”

What do you remember of this?

Is this a red flag?

At Wrestle War in War Games the 8-man does happen with Shockmaster…Uncle Fred…getting the win over Kole of Harlem Heat … Booker T… with a bear hug. From the Observer: “There were a few decent spots but it was mainly standing around and easily the worst War Games ever. Horrible camera work didn't help. The finish epitomized the entire show. Shock Master (Fred "Typhoon" Ottman) grabbed Coal in a bearhug. Cain was right there looking at it and waiting for someone to stop him from making the save. It appeared that was Smith's job but he wasn't there. Cain just looked there like a guy who knew he was in a bad position and had no idea what to do, and looked, and looked, and looked, until finally Smith grabbed him. *½”

Just an all out mess Eric. Was Davey Boy not living up to the hype when he was signed?

Halloween Havoc is announced and we will get the main event of Sid vs. Sting but it seems like Sid will eventually be a babyface as there’s a confrontation over Parker attempting to sign “Stunning” Steve Austin to his stable and Sid arguing with Parker about it. Sid vs. Austin…what could’ve been?

It’s hard to ignore Sid’s charisma and the way he pulls a crowd in. You knew that eventually he had to be a babyface am I right?

The turn begins on house shows with Sid vs. Sting main events. Parker ends up holding Sid’s legs down on a pin attempt when he thought it was Sting’s. This is a pretty ingenious way of doing this without killing Sid when losing. Do you know who’s idea this was?

The idea of Sid vs. Vader to headline Starrcade comes from who? Two meaty men banging it out over the WCW World Title. Was the goal to make Sid the new World Champion?

The Observer reports that there’s been talk internally of putting Sid & Pillman together as a team and Meltzer says it must be a rib after the squeegee incident back in 1991. Do you remember hearing about how Sid and Pillman got into an altercation and Sid came back with a squeegee?

Mean Gene Okerlund debuts in WCW and his first interview is a babyface Sid which is because we are taping for after Halloween Havoc and before Starrcade. Is it tough to map everything out when you had to tape so much ahead of time?

Gene calls Sid … Sid Justice … in the first interview … was it tough to break Gene of this habit?

At Halloween Havoc Sid takes on Sting and this is where the Parker - Sid split takes place. From the Observer… “Sting pinned Sid Vicious in 10:41 to remain the franchise. This was much better than their '91 Havoc main event and a lot better than expected. Vicious sold a lot early and they brawled into the crowd. After Sting was distracted by Parker, Vicious gave him a choke slam to gain the advantage. Vicious took control and used a chair shot and dropped Sting throat first on the guard rail. Fans were chanting at this point "Sid, Sid" which the announcers said on the air were chants for Sting. Vicious slowed it down with long bearhugs. Sting came back with two Stinger splashes. At this point Parker, while not looking, grabbed two legs which he "thought" were Sting's but were actually one leg of each. He held onto the Sid leg harder and Sting had Sid pinned but he kicked out. As Sid and Parker argued, Sting came up from behind with a rolling reverse cradle. **¾”

In prepping Sid for getting a World Title match against Vader you have him lose but essentially turn babyface.

And before we get there…Arn and Sid get into a bar room confrontation that leads to Sid going to Arn’s hotel room and eventually Sid stabs Arn with a pair of scissors. We discussed this at length in our Arn Anderson episode in the archives so be sure to go check that out…

We had that discussion a couple of years ago. Have you heard anything different since then? Anybody reach out and say something?

Did you think at that point Sid would ever return to WCW?

Sid eventually heads back to the WWF - even becoming a 2-time WWF Champion and main eventing WrestleMania 13 in Chicago against The Undertaker before he bows out of the company again in 1997.

Was there ever communication between you two during this period?

Sid is in ECW doing squash matches - getting big pops - but not really pushed in a position to be a top guy there. Do you know what the deal was there?

It’s been said that Scott Hall & Kevin Nash had pushed to have Sid return. Is that how you remember it?

Do you reach out - does Sid?

Was it a tough negotiation to bring him in?

Do you need to run it up the flag pole of Time Warner to make sure there were no issues in his returning after his departure?

The Observer reported: “For the record on that account, while it shows that Anderson and Ric Flair have absolutely no power in the organization, reports of Anderson okaying the deal are incorrect. The fact is that Anderson was never discussed with about the possibility of Sid coming in ahead of time and the only reason he knew before Sid arrived in Baltimore was because Randy Savage had told him. When Sid arrived, Anderson was told that if he wanted to, he could have nothing to do with him.” Did you talk to Arn or Ric or anyone else about him coming in?

Did anyone object?

Do you talk to anyone before meeting Sid or after meeting Sid?

Sid’s return to WCW is met with indifference from - who else - Dave Meltzer. He called it desperation sinking into WCW to bring him back for the Great American Bash in 1999 in Baltimore.

What’s the discussion like with Sid about no-showing…something he’s been notorious for during his career?

According to WCW contract data he’s signed on June 9th…just 4 days before the pay-per-view. It’s also reported in the Observer you traveled to West Memphis, AR to close the deal. It’s a 3-year deal starting at $800,000 to $850,000 to $900,000 at the end with a $50,000 bonus for each pay-per-view appearance. That is a gigantic deal for him considering his track record is it not?

Did you think you needed Sid at this time?

Sid interferes after the main event of Randy Savage vs. Kevin Nash for the WCW World Title and hits Nash with a high kick and power bomb and Sid leaves with Randy and Team Madness. Pretty big heater for that group is it not?

The next night on Nitro sees Nash challenge Sid to a match in the main event and Sid accepts but doesn’t show up for it in the irony of ironies. Savage brawls with Nash instead before Sid actually does come out and they beat on Nash before Sting saves.

You comment at the time regarding Sid’s return: “Bischoff, when asked about Arn Anderson's feelings on signing Sid, said that while Anderson may be personally uncomfortable, this is a business and from a business standpoint Anderson said he'd do whatever he had to. Bischoff said of Sid, "It became clear to me he has matured over the past five years. He realizes he made mistakes in and out of the ring and recognizes the tremendous opportunity he has here. So far, he has conducted himself very professionally. I've got all the confidence in the world that he's learned from his mistakes... If it doesn't work out, Sid's options are really limited. I think he's matured to the point that he understands that."

For a guy who had limited options outside of WCW…that contract Eric. Is that just an overpay?

At one of the last big Nitros at the Superdome Sid and Savage and Team Madness are all over the show. They get out of the humvee … yes that humvee … attack Kidman & Psicosis and Sid takes on Sting in the main event. It’s a DQ schmozz finish with Luger and Savage involved. Are you happy with the way Sid has returned?

Was he a model employee in the beginning?

Nitro draws another big house in Chicago in late June and Sid vs. Scott Putski is the semi-main event. Somehow this match takes 4:40 but Sid gets the win. The fans are noticeably chanting Goldberg during this. Did you already have the win streak idea in mind for Sid or did it help that the fans were chanting Goldberg at him?

The big part of this show is Ric & Arn are in the ring when Ric was President of WCW and Ric calls out Savage & Sid to join forces against the babyface Kevin Nash. When Sid gets in the ring - Arn walks over to the corner and is away from everyone. When the segment is finished Sid walks to Arn and shakes his hand. Was this scripted? A work? It’s never acknowledged by the announcers but some of the crowd do react to it.

At Thunder in Shreveport Savage & Sid actually put over Buff Bagwell & Dean Malenko in the main event but it’s by DQ when Savage hits Nick Patrick. Do you think all these DQ finishes hurt your ratings as has always been wildly claimed?

It’s reported in the Observer that Buff started some shit afterwards because he didn’t want to put Sid over and then Malenko got hot about he never gets a win and does all the work and Buff gets all the wins. I mean…you gotta be pretty animated to get Dean Malenko hot do you not?

Sid vs. Nash is announced as the main event for the next Nitro at the Georgia Dome. We are just 6 months - almost to the day - removed from the Finger Poke of Doom. That show drew 38,809…this show draws 25,338. It is the day after July 4th which is what some people blamed it on. But 13,000 people down in just 6 months. That has to be a kick to the gut does it not?

This is also the last WCW event to draw at least 25,000 people.

This is the last Nitro and really the last WCW event run at the Georgia Dome. Was it just too expensive for what the company was bringing in at the time?

Sid vs. Nash goes…1:26. It ends with Savage, then nWo Sting, real Sting coming out. Nash ends up powerbombing real Sting. Then Savage in the back slaps Torrie Wilson and throws Gorgeous George across the room. Holy shit Eric. What’s your reaction to watching all of this live?

I know we’ve said this before but this creative is just all over the place is it not?

It’s announced that Bash at the Beach’s main event will feature the WCW Title on the line in a tag match with Nash & Sting against Sid & Savage but the title will only change hands if Nash is pinned. Your big belt being determined in a tag match. It continues stories but does it hurt the title in your estimation?

At Bash at the Beach 99 in Ft. Lauderdale Randy Savage wins the WCW Title by pinning Kevin Nash. Gorgeous George turns on Savage & Sid early on before rejoining them and turning on Nash to set up the finish. From the Observer: “George went in the ring to give Nash a low blow. Her first low blow came nowhere close. Nash didn't sell, and she froze. Nash stood there and waited and finally she hit him with another one. Sid then bodyslammed Nash and dropped him in the wrong position, making it even a harder angle for Savage to hit the elbow for the pin. Nash and Sting did shake hands after the show went off the air in front of the crowd. -*”

The very next night Savage drops the title to Hogan in Hulk’s return while Sid pins Kenny Kaos. Are you thinking in your mind there’s money in Sid vs. Hulk in a rehash of WrestleMania 7?

I ask because Sid comes out and interferes in Hogan & Savage attacking Hogan … some reason no DQ is ever called but what the hell right? … and Sting attacks Sid to save Hogan and Hogan gets the win with the legdrop.

The fans are chanting for Goldberg throughout Sid’s matches though and Sid is programmed with Sting…again. Why do you think Sid and Sting always got put together with each other?

Another amazing Nitro finish takes place in Rockford, IL on July 19th. From the Observer: “Sting beat Flair in 8:40 to win the company. They did a false finish where Sid interfered leading to Flair putting on the figure four but Sting kicked out. It was mainly Flair and Anderson selling for Sting like he was God himself, and Sting no selling for Flair, all the while Bischoff blaming Flair for keeping Sting and the rest of the talent down the last ten years. There's something in this picture that doesn't make any sense. Sting was dead two weeks ago, and after doing two weeks with Flair, he's over like a superstar. Next thing you know they'll put Dusty out there for commentary and he'll complain about the referees getting bumped in every single match. This match had three ref bumps alone before Bischoff ran in and ruled Sting the winner as Flair was in the scorpion and Mickey Jay was down having been bumped a second time. The reason there was so much hesitation in making the call and ringing the bell is that Flair was supposed to win due to Sid's help as late as one hour before the show started (they had changed the plan again during the week), but they changed it without telling anyone so they all froze for a second when Bischoff signalled. Hudson played it pretty well, but the guy ringing the bell wouldn't ring it figuring the Bischoff thing was a swerve. Crowd went nuts for the finish. Sid attacked Sting and power bombed Bischoff until Hogan showed up and Sid took a powder.”

What do you remember of all this - if anything - and taking the power bomb…how was that?

Hogan and Sid wrestle in the main event which ends in a DQ when Nash interferes and it sounds like the plan is for Sting vs. Sid at Road Wild. Is there just too much top tier talent with not enough creative going around it?

The next week in Memphis it’s Nash & Sid - who are now the heels? - taking on Hogan & Sting. “Nash & Sid beat Hogan & Sting in 9:33. Hogan got the knee injury early and Sting had to carry the match. This match had super heat even though Sid was missing spots all over the place to the point it made Nash look like a good worker.”

Were these the types of matches that helped or hurt Sid?

It’s reported in the Observer that the original plan was for Sid to take on Chase Tatum but during the show you switched it to have Sid team with Nash instead of Rick Steiner. How much of this type of thing happened during this time?

The Goldberg - Sid program starts when Goldberg & Steiner attack Goldberg with a shovel which leads to Goldberg getting this gigantic knot on the back of his head along with a bad cut. Did Goldberg just not have good luck with gimmicks in WCW? Between this and the window…

Goldberg vs. Sid is put on the road as the main events of house shows and Goldberg beats him in all of them. Considering Sid is about to be the Millenium Man and have an undefeated streak is this just short sighted ness or did you think there was heat in people seeing Sid lose in person but on TV have it acknowledged on TV?

Eric we’re now at your last pay-per-view before you’re reassigned in WCW - Road Wild 99. Sid vs. Sting is a featured match. Did these two enjoy working together?

From the Observer: “6. Sid Vicious pinned Sting in 10:40.  Sid is now the 40-year-old Millennium Man.  They were pushing the entire match how Sid has a winning streak that rivals Goldberg's old streak.  And they wonder why people are sick of their announcers and their product.  First off, except for squash matches, Sid hasn't even beaten anyone on television as all his matches are DQ finishes.  Second, with only one or two exceptions, he's lost every match he's had up to this point on house shows.  At least with Goldberg, it got over early on because even though the number was a fantasy (and if anyone remembers history, when the number seemed accurate, the streak angle was over huge with people bringing signs, and as soon as they started screwing with the number, nobody cared about the streak at all, but they never learn), at least the guy really won all his matches.  With the internet so prevalent, you can't pretend the house show results don't happen and even forgetting about that audience, you can't have one DQ after another on Nitro and sell people there's a winning streak.  Anyway, to their credit, Sid did start a one match winning streak pinning Sting clean.  Sting hit two Stinger splashes, went for a third, but Sid caught him and choke slammed him.  They did play it up as a huge deal that Sid scored a clean pin on Sting, to get him ready for his program with Goldberg.  The two did more than you'd think in the match.  *½”

It is a huge deal for Sid to get a clean pin but Meltzer is all over the creative for Sid. Any credence to what he’s saying?

Sid and Goldberg run together for a few weeks before you’re let go and in your return to WCW in 2000 there’s one noticeable thing that takes place. On the relaunch of WCW with Nitro and you & Russo - you attempt to make a joke out of Sid with the squeegee line that you had to say twice because no one popped for it. Who’s idea was it? Did Sid have any issues with it? Why do you think it fell flat?

You and Sid do not work together much after the relaunch. What was Sid like then?

Towards the end of WCW Sid has that horrific leg injury we’ve covered in the archives on WCW Sin…is that the worst injury you’ve seen in wrestling aired?

What is your opinion of Sid as a draw, a worker, and do you think he’s a hall of famer?