Grilling JR - WrestleMania 13 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today on Grilling JR we’ll be discussing WrestleMania 13. It’s been 25 years since this infamous pay-per-view and we’ll continue our look back at 1997 with the Grand Daddy of them All from Chicago.

Coming off the Final Four and the craziness of Thursday Raw Thursday which we discussed previously…Bret Hart is the world champion, Rocky Maivia is the intercontinental champion and the whole WrestleMania card has been shifted.

On the Raw after Final Four Sid is scheduled to get his World Title match he didn’t get on Thursday Raw Thursday when Shawn Michaels vacates the title. Bret Hart will defend the title against Sid after winning it at Final Four. It is also the first Raw that will be weekly taped. This is such a shift for the World Wrestling Federation to combat WCW and Monday Nitro. The whole touring schedule is about to change amongst others. How big a deal is this to everything that the company had built up until this point?

As being in talent relations are guys coming to you asking a lot of questions?

It’s written in the Observer that Vince will be taking himself off commentary to handle the shows backstage and making Jerry Lawler and you into the main announcing duo. How does that conversation come to be?

Raw opens with Bret vs. Sid to start but Steve Austin does a run-in to interrupt and delay it. You had been critical on commentary in the recent weeks regarding WCW’s bait and switching. Did you considering this a bait and switch?

It’s actually delayed twice as it was teased at the beginning of the second hour and Austin attacked Bret backstage and that made it the main event. Sid would get the win and the title and Bret’s 4th WWF title run ends after Austin hits Bret with a chair while he has the sharpshooter on and Sid powerbombs Bret to become a 2-time WWF champion. Do you think Bret had an issue only holding the title for one day?

The top of the card for WrestleMania is now set…Sid vs. Undertaker for the WWF Title which its crazy to think about this now but the first time Undertaker is getting a shot at the title on the grandest stage of them all…and Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin in an I quit match. In your mind what was the real main event?

Also on that Raw Jerry Lawler cuts a promo on ECW basically inviting them to show up to a real wrestling show. Heyman would call in later saying ECW would be at the Manhattan Center for Raw. We’re you a fan of having TV time devoted to ECW? Was this just a deal to fill in talent while the WWF was on their European tour?

Chyna makes her second WWF appearance and rag dolls Marlena again. In the Observer Meltzer would write that it was obvious that Marlena was in an ultra-short dress on purpose so there would be a panty shot. Do you think that was part of the plan in WWF turning into a more risqué product?

The Hardy Boys are on that show as well losing to the Headbangers. What a career arc for them to now be on AEW TV as the Hardys again 25 years later when here they are just impressive enhancement talent. Did you see something in the Hardys around this time?

Razor & Diesel…well the fake ones…are finally dropped as characters. The gimmick had well ran its course do you agree?

Is that something you’re happy about to really make sure you’re completely separated from that at this point?

Could the angle had been more successful without it being “Razor and Diesel?” Or was it doomed to fail no matter what?

It’s reported in the Observer that Droz and Brakkus were in the process of being trained by Dr. Tom Prichard. Internally were there high hopes for the both of them?

Ken Shamrock signs with the WWF on February 24th. How big a deal is this for the WWF to come out on top of WCW and New Japan at the time to acquire him?

Did you think Ken would be able to make an immediate impact?

Is this a loosening up of the talent budget to go out and get someone of that name and value? I mean we’re only 7 months away from Vince telling Bret he can’t honor his contract due to money issues. What were the real money issues?

The stories are flying rampant around Shawn Michaels’ knee and what is actually wrong and what it means to his career. Was Shawn worth the issues and drama that came along with him at this point?

Raw from the Manhattan Center takes place and it’s a show for sure. As said most of the WWF talent is overseas for an European tour and you yourself aren’t even at the show. But the big news coming out of the show is the announcement of Ken Shamrock’s signing and also the Road Warriors returning. Did the WWF go to Hawk and Animal or vice versa? Did you think they were in a position to help elevate the current tag teams or to give the tag team division more name recognition?

Meltzer is critical of having the LOD go 11 minutes and not get a win over the Headbangers with the match ending in a double count out. It’s hard to disagree with that but what say you JR?

Meltzer would comment in the Observer that at this point the most important thing for each company was showing its dominance in the ratings and having these blow out shows like Raw had at the Manhattan Center that it was sacrificing long term storytelling for short term ratings gains. Do you think that’s a fair assessment of this time frame in 1997?

Marc Mero tears his ACL and is going to miss at least 6 months. Was this one of the worst times to miss this amount of time?

Lawler and Heyman are really shooting on each other during the phone call and then the Manhattan Center commentary and supposedly Lawler got real hot when Heyman brought up the neighborhood watch program regarding Lawler’s legal problems years ago while Lawler reminded Paul of knocking him out when Heyman was a rookie. Did these two just not like each other?

Miguel Perez comes into the company and we know eventually he’ll be part of Los Boriquas but where does this signing come from?

Dan Severn comes in for a meeting with Titan in late February according to the Observer. Was the meeting with Dan a look at him or more of a look at other UFC guys now that Shamrock was in the fold?

The card really takes shape but it’s not the deepest Mania card. Outside of Bret vs. Austina and Taker vs. Sid the biggest profile match is the Road Warriors & Ahmed Johnson taking on the Nation of Domination. Is this a roster depth issue? Shawn Michaels’ injury screwing up the plans?

Do you know what Austin’s plans were going to be if Michaels was healthy?

All that being said it’s projected to be the biggest gate of 1997. Is this when you start to see WrestleMania being the brand what sells the show compared to the actual card?

Raw on the 3rd of March is on tape delay from Germany and it features an amazing match between Davey Boy Smith and Owen Hart in the finals of the European Title tournament which sees the British Bulldog win the title in what Meltzer would call a ****½ match. What did you think of that match?

This show is not up to the usual WWF production standards with it being taped out of the country. It’s been long rumored that this show and the quality of it regardless of the European title match was really what set in motion a series of events that led to Vince Russo having more of a voice in the creative process. Is that how you remember it?

MSG Network airs the house show on March 16th for the first time in years and also the last time ever. Do you know what the agreement was between the WWF & MSG and why they stopped airing shows?

Joanie is finally named Chyna. Do you know where that idea came from?

Dennis Rodman becomes a part of WCW after the Observer reports that he was also in negotiations to come into the WWF to be part of WrestleMania and be in Goldust’s corner. Are you a part of this? Do you think Rodman would’ve been a big help to the WWF at the time?

This is big news in the Chicago market just two weeks before WrestleMania. Do you remember Vince being upset over this?

Raw on March 10th features a dramatic shift. It is now called Raw is War with the new stage, titan tron, pyro open. Was this something needed for the company and the TV show to give it an overhaul?

What did you think of it?

You’re all over the show doing interviews. You interview Sid and then Ken Shamrock where it is announced he will be the special guest referee for Bret vs. Austin at WrestleMania. Were you a fan of doing these interviews or would you had rather stayed on commentary?

Tony Atlas is featured on the show with Rocky Maivia as Rocky vs. Sultan is set up for the IC title at WrestleMania. What was Tony’s status with the company? Why Tony here compared to Rock’s father Rocky?

Taz and Jerry Lawler get into it which leads to Sabu doing a springboard but crashes through a table instead. Is there anybody you remember seeing during this time with ECW involved where you thought somebody from their roster could make the transition to the WWF?

This leads to later on in the night a debate between Jerry Lawler and Paul Heyman which definitely blurred the lines of the shoot and work. There’s a lot of TV time dedicated to ECW at a time when you’re promoting the biggest show of the year. Were any of the WWF wrestlers upset about this?

Brian Pillman is added to color commentary on Shotgun along your side. What did you think of Brian as a color guy?

Steve Williams is arrested on March 17th at the Laredo, Texas airport for drug possession. Do you reach out to Dr. Death when you hear the news?

That same day is the infamous Raw from Syracuse that was headlined by Sid vs. Bret Hart in a Cage Match. We’ll get to that in a minute but first I want to discuss Shawn Michaels coming back for an interview. Here he is 3 weeks removed from retiring and now he’s talking about being a part of WrestleMania. There had to be guys coming to you saying…what exactly is going on here?

At the end of the show is the Bret vs. Sid cage match which ends when Taker slams the door shut on Bret and Sid climbs out to retain the title. It’s after the match that is the big story though. Vince McMahon gets into the ring to interview Bret and Bret shoves him down which gets a super reaction and McMahon sells it great. From the Observer: “During the Hart turn, Hart said "this is bullshit" after losing to Sid in the cage match while he threw Vince McMahon to the ground. Vince, the master actor, had a great glare at Hart. Hart said if people were mad at him, "tough shit." Sid also used the word "shit" and McMahon, after Hart had decked Pat Patterson, called him a no-good son of a bitch.”

Lot of swearing. Lot of cuss words. Bret Hart really turns heel here but what were your feelings on this?

It’s great television but most people point to this show as the kicking off of the Attitude era. Do you agree with that?

Before we get to Mania there’s some news and notes in the Observer. Two people with issues, Jesse James and Jake Roberts, have their situations come to a head. The future Road Dogg is suspended for 6 weeks while Jake is let go. Were these just two guys at the time with demons that weren’t able to get it kicked?

It’s also reported that Victor Quinones signed a deal with the WWF as well. What was Victor’s role supposed to be at the time?

We’re at the show now Jim! WrestleMania 13 from the Rosemont Horizon in Chicago. The show is well received from Observer readers with a 77% thumbs up.

There’s some controversy before the show though…and it involves Curt Hennig. From the Observer: “The latest chapter in the Hennig saga started at the Cauliflower Alley Club banquet in Studio City, CA on 3/15, and ended, or at least appears to have ended on 3/24 with Nitro opened with the appearance of Larry Hennig in the front row in Duluth. At the CAC, Larry Hennig introduced his son, who was being awarded, as a future WWF champion, and the two talked highly about Vince McMahon. The reports we received is that Hennig, whose Titan contract expires in a few weeks (he's been sitting out until the contract expires when he's legally able to sign his new WCW deal) and was expected to join WCW immediately as a full-time wrestler at that point, was in Titan Towers on 3/18. According to WWF sources, Hennig was expected to make a surprise appearance at Wrestlemania, largely to return the Lex Luger favor from the original Nitro. When Eric Bischoff got the word about the CAC banquet and the Titan rumors, he contacted Hennig, which I believe was on 3/21, who told him something to the effect of it being him just screwing with McMahon, which Hennig has probably now done as much if not more than any wrestler alive.”

How true is all this? Was Hennig penciled in at one point for Mania?

The show draws 18,197 fans with 16,467 paying for a gate of $837,150. It’s the largest gate for pro wrestling in the United States since WrestleMania 10.

The show opens with the Blackjacks vs. Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon vs. The Godwinns vs. The Headbangers. The winner of this match is to get a title shot on Raw. Seems kind of backwards doesn’t it?

It’s an elimination match but to get the Blackjacks out and Furnas & LaFon out they’re DQed and counted out. Are these cheap ways of getting them out of the match?

It comes down to the Headbangers and Godwinns. From the Observer: “Bangers tried some hot moves including Mosh coming off the top rope with a clothesline off the apron, and Mosh giving Thrasher what amounted to a rocket launcher plancha off the top rope to the floor on Henry. The last 5:30 as a regular tag match was pretty bad while Henry was in, and far worse with Phinneus involved. Mosh ended up pinning Phinneus with a Thesz press off the top rope. -1/2*”

Had the Godwinns reached their apex at this point in the gimmick?

Rocky vs. Sultan is up next. From the Observer: “2. Rocky Maivia pinned Sultan to retain the IC title in 9:45. Honky Tonk Man did the commentary for this match, and spent the match trying to put himself over at the expense of the match. They showed Tony Atlas in the audience watching this match but he played no part in the match, and also showed Lou Albano sitting next to Arnold Skaaland at ringside. No question Maivia has both the look and the athletic ability to some day be what they want him to be, but a lot of folks resent him getting pushed to this degree because he's not there yet. Well, I doubt his title reign is going to last much longer. Kind of boring early, but it picked up with some near falls at the end, ending with Maivia winning with a schoolboy. After the match, as Jim Ross was interviewing Maivia, Sultan jumped Maivia and Ross took a bump. Sultan attacked Maivia with the title belt and did a splash off the top. Iron Sheik came in and put the camel clutch on Maivia until out of the crowd came Rocky Johnson, at the age of 55, to make the save doing his 1970s Ali shuffle. Sultan hit Johnson with the flag pole and they ripped his shirt off and were beating him up until Maivia cleaned house and father and son hugged. Post-match angle was one of those things that looked better on paper than it turned out to be. *¼”

Tell me about the bump Jim. Was it supposed to happen? Was Rocky too soon to be on TV at this point?

What did you think of having Tony Atlas be part of the build up to the match and then not have him involved and instead having Rocky involved. Was this a last minute thing to include him?

“3. Hunter Hearst Helmsley pinned Goldust in 14:28. Match started off hot. These guys are both better than average workers but for some reason, considering how hard each is pushed, they have no chemistry in the ring with each other. Chyna went after Marlena. Goldust went for the curtain call, but Helmsley got out of it. Helmsley then went for the Pedigree, but Goldust got out of that. As Goldust again went for the curtain call, he saw Chyna after Marlena and pulled her to the apron. Helmsley came from behind with a knee-dive to Goldust, who crashed into Marlena, and Marlena flew into Chyna's arms. Chyna was throwing Marlena around in a bearhug while Helmsley hit the Pedigree for the pin. **¼”

Do you agree with Meltzer that Hunter and Dustin just didn’t have any chemistry in the ring? Was this all a vehicle just to get Chyna over?

“4. Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith retained the WWF tag titles going to a double count out with Vader & Mankind in 16:08. Hart & Smith got a face pop and worked the matches as the faces. This was a good match with a lame non-finish which served to ask the question what the purpose of the match was, since neither team even teased a turn. Finally Hart gave Mankind a belly-to-belly on the floor and Owen hit the enzuigiri to lead to a hot tag to Smith. However, Mankind got the mandible claw on Smith. As Vader kept Hart from making the save, he knocked Hart into Mankind and both Mankind and Smith tumbled to the floor for the double count out. **½”

It’s tough to get this match over as its heels vs. heels and just kind of thrown together. Looking back it’s Mick’s first WrestleMania…is this just lackluster for it?

We’re 4 matches in and I’ll tell you this Jim. This isn’t the greatest WrestleMania ever and it’s not really that good. Is everyone just waiting at this point for Hart vs. Austin?

That’s next and what a match it is. It’s hard to point at one thing wrong in this match. This is just…you have to watch this if you’ve never seen it.

From the Observer: “5. Bret Hart won the submission match over Steve Austin in 22:05. Austin came out first to a huge face pop. Surprisingly, since the TV the past two weeks has been specifically designed to turn Hart heel, when Hart came out, he got almost all cheers. An incredible brawl from bell-to-bell with psychology and timing the likes of which you'll only see when the best go against each other. The crowd seemed almost totally behind Hart at this point even though the announcers were telling the story of a changed Hart against an almost heroic Austin. Hart worked over Austin's knee until Austin hit the stone cold stunner. Hart came back and wrapped Austin's knee around the post and gave him a figure four around the post which Austin refused to submit to. Bret got "frustrated" at Austin not submitting and used the ring bell on him. He teased the Pillman spot by putting Austin's ankle in the chair, but Austin escaped. Even at this stage Hart was getting the larger percentage of cheers while the story being told by the announcers was of Hart as the heel, but not so overtly so as to lose credibility. Austin took a bump into the guard rail knocking down two officials in the process and juiced at this point. Hart then posted him and Austin bled heavily. After a few chair shots to the knee, Hart went for the sharpshooter but Austin escaped with an eye rake and followed with a low blow and a superplex. Austin began choking Hart with an extension chord but Hart got the ring bell and clocked Austin with it. Hart finally got the sharpshooter on and held it for a long time. At one time it appeared Austin broke it, but Hart maneuvered back into the position and eventually Austin "passed out" from the pain and Ken Shamrock called the match. Hart still got a large babyface pop for winning, but the crowd began to turn on him as he attacked Austin's knee after the match. Finally Shamrock got behind Hart and suplexed him to break up the post-match attack. Shamrock and Hart squared off and then Hart backed off and left the ring--this was the coup de grace in the heel turn and the crowd booed him heavily. Austin eventually revived, selling the knee big-time, but still gave another ref a stone cold stunner and left the ring limping with the crowd chanting his name. This is one we'll remember for a long time. *****”

There’s literally nothing wrong with this match. It’s one of the all-time best matches still to this day. Nothing could top this on the show obviously.

“6. Legion of Doom & Ahmed Johnson beat Faarooq & Crush & Savio Vega in a Chicago Street fight in 10:45. Since it was in Chicago, the "home town" Road Warriors got a super pop. Both sets of ring entrances were great, as expected. The NOD came out with a garbage can filled with weapons. At one point Animal was about to piledrive Faarooq on the French announcing table but instead both fell off the table. Animal sprayed a fire extinguisher at Faarooq. Johnson bodyslammed Faarooq through a table. They put a noose around Johnson's head and hung him while he was being pounded on with a night stick. While holding the rope, Faarooq took a bump from the middle rope to the floor which was likely the move he separated his shoulder on, and he's currently out of action. Hawk sprayed Crush with the fire extinguisher. Finally The Road Warriors did the doomsday device on Crush, and then Hawk and Johnson clotheslined Crush with the 2x4 and Animal pinned him. After the match, Johnson gave D.Lo Brown the Pearl River plunge and Johnson and Animal put Wolfie D and Jamie Dundee on their shoulders and set them up for Hawk to come off the top with a clothesline onto each of them at the same time. ***½”

This is actually a really good match but completely forgotten about from Hart and Austin. Is this the peak of Ahmed Johnson in the WWF do you think?

Do you think this is why the WWF started booking cool down matches after this?

“7. Undertaker pinned Sid in 21:19 to win the WWF title. Shawn Michaels came out to do commentary and got the big ring entrance. Right in front of the camera, Michaels did the NWO for life sign. The next night on WCW's Nitro, Kevin Nash said on the air as he was making to the ring for his interview, "HBK, right back at you." Before the match started, Bret Hart came out and yelled at Michaels, saying he was a pussy and a faker, yelled at the Undertaker saying that when he slammed the door on him last Monday he slammed the door on their friendship, and told Sid that he knows he's the real champion. Sid wound up power bombing Bret and they took him out. Then the match started. Undertaker and Sid each put forth more effort in this match than they did in their regular arena matches, or in their big PPV matches years back when Hogan was champion, but Sid still can't work. You know the saying that it was so quiet you can hear a pin drop, well in this case, it was so quiet you can hear a spot called. Sid controlled almost the entire match which told you he was doing the job at the end, although it was almost all rest holds. Both threw kicks to the face simultaneously. Sid even took a slam off the top rope. Undertaker used a clothesline off the top and went for the tombstone, but Sid reversed it and hit Undertaker's big move on him for a near fall. At this point Hart showed back up and hit Sid twice with a chair. Undertaker smashed Sid's back into the post and gave him a choke slam for a near fall. After a blown spot, Sid hit the power bomb. Hart came back out again and got into it with Sid, ending when Hart snapped Sid's neck down on the top rope and Sid staggered into Undertaker's tombstone for the pin. Match ended with Hart and Undertaker glaring at each other. They've done an incredible job this year destroying the credibility of the title with all the run-ins and screw-jobs in every title match, which probably explains why the title matches mean so little in TV ratings. *¼”

There is a lot of booking here done probably to protect Sid with Bret involved. But the match isn’t good and Meltzer takes a shot at the title picture at the end. Do you think the title was tarnished by all the changes?

The rumor and innuendo has always been that Sid shit his pants during this match. Do you know the answer?

What did you think of the show JR?