Grilling JR - Sting's 1990 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today on Grilling JR we’re going to be discussing one of the most interesting times for one of the biggest stars still going today. Sting’s 1990!

JR before we get into this…we’re talking about a difference of 30+ years of dealing with Steve Borden. Has he changed at all?

Sting begins 1990 as a Horseman but also is scheduled to take on Ric Flair at WrestleWar. This is some different type of booking at this time where you have Sting - super over as a babyface - in this group. But from the Observer: “No idea what is going to happen in the main event since Jim Herd apparently still wants the belt to go to Luger.”

How much turmoil is there trying to figure this all out?

Who’s pushing to put Sting over and going up against Herd?

The story on TV is that Lex is looking to either take Sting’s title shot at Wrestle War or defeat Flair before hand. This is way way way before this type of thing was a booking staple but was there ever any talk of a three-way match?

Sting, Ole & Arn Anderson are in 6-mans all over the country defeating the Great Muta, Buzz Sawyer & the Dragon Master. Did you ever see a future main event of Sting vs. Great Muta?

For Clash of the Champions on February 6th from Corpus Christi the top match announced is Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Sting vs. Buzz Sawyer, Great Muta & Dragon Master in a Cage Match. Not many people talk about Buzz Sawyer & Dragon Master in the same breathe as the other men. Who was pushing them in this spot do you remember?

It’s written in the Observer at the time that you and Terry Funk are producing the TBS and syndicated TV shows while Kevin Sullivan, Ric Flair and Jim Cornette are on the booking committee. Is that accurate?

At the Clash is when the turn happens and it’s one of the all-time great angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2W63rYGcQI 

How good is this angle Jim? How good is Terry Funk…and Ole Anderson is just amazing in this…

And literally an hour later…it all goes to shit. Ole Anderson replaces Sting in the cage match main event and Sting runs out to confront Flair…and Sting gets pulled down from climbing the cage…and blows out his knee. How big a blow is this to the long-term plans? Do you talk to Sting afterwards?

Do you remember if Sting was planned to go over Flair at Wrestle War?

In the Observer it’s noted that at this point the top babyface is Norman the Lunatic as Lex Luger isn’t exactly a babyface at this point. We’ve discussed Luger turning in our Lex Luger in WCW episode which you can check out in the archives but my goodness Jim was this the worst possible time for an injury?

Do you think it could’ve been avoided?

This creates even more heat for the eventual Sting and Flair match but in the mean time Lex is elevated to work Flair while Sting rehabs. Do you think this injury cost the company a tremendous amount of money in the Wrestle War build?

Is Lex the only one considered to replace Sting?

Is the expectation when Sting returns he will be put right back into the spot?

Sting appears at Wrestle War and is introduced to the crowd but comes out later on in the match to show support for Lex and is almost attacked by the Andersons. Was it a big deal to Sting to be at ringside at least for this show?

Sting is kept in front of the audience with interviews and updates on his condition and lots of support shown by the babyfaces and the fans chanting, “We Want Sting!”

On TV it’s talked about how Sting could miss 6 - 12 months with the injury but it’s written in the Observer that Sting’s background in physical fitness could help him get back by July. Was that Sting’s goal?

Is this the worst possible time for Sting to go down with the injury from a company point of view? Were you expecting a gigantic summer with him as a newly crowned champion?

Ric Flair resigns as chairman of the NWA booking committee…do you think Sting’s injury was a part of this?

Does this change the trajectory of Sting’s return do you think?

Sting appears at ringside for a match in Marietta taped for Worldwide for May 5th which introduces Barry Windham as a new member of the Horseman. This is the first time Sting’s been “beat up” since his injury. Did Sting have any concerns or issues with doing this while in the middle of rehab?

Capital Combat is the next pay-per-view and you know where this is going Jim. Robocop. Where does all this come from?

ME 4/15/90 Sting Robocop- Andersons Promo

The story is that Robocop is there to stop the Horsemen since Sting still isn’t fully healed and Flair will have the Horsemen in his corner for the Flair vs. Luger rematch.

CLASSIC JIM ROSS TRYING TO GET A SHOT OF STING & ROBOCOP

THE NIGHT ROBOCOP CAME TO WCW

4:10-4:30

Did Robocop add anything to the presentation or take away?

At Capital Combat Sting and Robocop run off the Horsemen - who by the way interfere in a steel cage match - but they’re joined by EL GIGANTE! I know this episode is about Sting…but El Gigante…Giant Gonzalez. Tell me about him Jim!

Was Sting excited to be back and part of the action again with Robocop and the Horsemen?

He’s still months away at this point…but then you start adding in people like Junkyard Dog and Paul Orndorff to help supplement…and they’re called “The Superheroes.” Where does all this come from?

Ole Anderson is named the booker on May 14th. Was this a good or a bad thing for Sting?

Sting renames them…Attitudes with Dudes on commentary with you on the Main Event on June 10th. Who’s coming up with this stuff Jim?

Sting finally announces he’s coming back at the Great American Bash to take on Ric Flair. Was Sting ready to return?

At Clash of the Champions 11 in Charleston, SC Junkyard Dog takes on Ric Flair and it ends in a DQ when Ole Anderson interferes. At this point Sid Vicious has joined the Four Horsemen…and it’s just a mess of bodies between them all for the brawl to end the show. Is Sting weakened being associated with guys like JYD & Orndorff?

Any talk of this being a future War Games main event?

The final build of Sting and Flair comes with Jim Herd announcing the stipulations of the match at the Great American Bash…it’ll be a No DQ match with Ole Anderson and El Gigante handcuffed to each other. Was this something that was needed?

There’s a string of house shows that are portrayed as Sting’s return but he never actually gets cleared for to wrestle but appears at. From the Observer: “The poor houses are an indication they are now paying for blowing what should have been a good house show run by overexposing Sting to death.”

We just recently talked about Triple H’s return after his injury and how he was kept off TV and only really hyped with music videos. Was Sting overexposed to a degree that it hurt him Jim?

Sting finally returns to the ring and teams with Luger to get a win over Flair & Windham on July 1st in Farmland, Tennessee. Do you remember hearing how he felt and did you get reports on if he was ready to go?

Sting’s crowning achievement takes place at Great American Bash 1990 in Baltimore but the big story seems to be Ric Flair demanding a contract extension before dropping the title. Do you remember Sting and Flair being cross over this or was this business?

Sting gets the win in 16:05 to win his first NWA Title and Meltzer points out how Sting isn’t really doing a lot of what got him over due to his knee. After the match Sting puts Flair over as the greatest champion ever with Gordon Solie and gets some boos for doing so. Do you think that was a legit promo Sting cut?

From the Observer: “

How tough is it to step into Ric Flair’s spot here and what is really his second match back from a major injury that should’ve kept him out longer?

The next night in Asbury Park a house show is run and it’s notable because Gary Michael Cappetta announced that Sting had defeated Ric Flair the night before to become the new NWA World Champion and there’s a loud amount of boos. Was there a worry about him being rejected quickly?

Did anyone have a chance to follow Ric?

Harley Race replaces Ric Flair on some of the loops with Flair out with a staph infection of his knee in tag matches with Windham against Sting & Luger. That had to have been an interesting deal to put together Jim?

It’s obvious that Sid is being set up for Sting’s first big challenger. Was the goal to let Flair and Sting breathe for a little before getting back to it?

Was Sid ready for Sting at this point?

The houses aren’t great coming off Sting’s win but they weren’t exactly lighting the business on fire before he won either. Does any of the blame get laid at Sting’s feet when house show business isn’t ticking upward?

Do you remember Jim Herd and Ole Anderson’s thoughts on the beginning of Sting’s run as champion?

It’s interesting to note that with Flair dropping the NWA Title to Sting and Hogan dropping the WWF title to Warrior it was kind of the end of the 80s and the torch passing into the 90s…do you think it was symbolic in nature for both companies?

Sting’s first big title defense on TV is scheduled for the Clash and his opponent is…the Black Scorpion.

Jim - We’ve talked about this in the archives on various episodes. But where does this rank in your all-time list on bad ideas?

The talk in the Observer at the time was the reason for the Black Scorpion was to give Sting a clean win in his first high profile title defense and there were no mid-level heels anyone believed would have a chance or wanted to be sacrificed. Jim…you talk about how a locker room is a team and you want the right players. Did you have the right players for Sting to be successful?

When you take a look at the roster in 1989 compared to the one at this point in 1990…I’m talking about the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Great Muta, Steve Williams, Terry Gordy, the Road Warriors, etc…the amount of budget cuts taken really brought the talent level down did it not?

Does Sting ever raise his hand and say, “The Black Scorpion? Are you kidding me?”

Or was Sting a model employee?

Sting vs. Black Scorpion - is a gigantic draw for Clash of the Champions. At the time it is the most widely viewed show in the NWA/WCW history of airing things on TV. 2.76 million homes for a 8.4 share and 5 rating. Luger vs. Flair is on underneath but I mean that’s been seen before. Is this why the Black Scorpion was kept going?

But the bell rings and it’s Sting vs. Al Perez. This isn’t Sting vs. Flair and it shows. It’s not a great match and doesn’t do Sting really any justice. Meltzer gives it *. The most eyes in TV history for the company and this is what Sting has to work with. How badly does this hurt Sting?

From the Observer recap: “Sting won with a clothesline into the buckle and pin. At that point a second Black Scorpion came up the aisle and we were told that he was the real Scorpion and this was all mind games. While nobody could understand how Jim Ross would immediately know the other guy is the real Scorpion and how the first guy is a fake, one has to realize that pro wrestling has what we call poetic license in that angles don’t have to make the least bit of sense.”

How hard is it as a broadcaster to put over something you know is shit?

Does the rating make the office think what they’re doing is working?

Sid Vicious is finally going to get his one-on-one match at Halloween Havoc after months of teasing it when he attacks Sting after the match. So in Sting’s two biggest matches after winning the title the formula of what made Sting successful - good workers making him look super strong - isn’t what is followed. Does that show a disconnect between the creative change of Ole and Flair?

You team with Sting, Brian Pillman, Brad Armstrong & Tom Zenk to defeat the Glow girls on Family Feud. What do you remember of this experience?

While the build to Vicious is happening you’re part of the investigation with Sting trying to figure out who the Black Scorpion is and there’s clues to Sting’s past from “Tulsa” and while Sid was after the belt, the Scorpion was after Sting’s soul. Was there an actual plan at this point in time or was it all just smoke and mirrors on trying to figure it out?

Running two title contenders like this at the same time … does this cloud the title picture and hurt or is it important to have everyone gunning for the champion?

During a contract signing for Halloween Havoc the Black Scorpion appears which leads to Sid hitting Sting from behind with a steel chair and piledriving Sting on the chair. Is there any consideration at all to putting Sid over at Halloween Havoc?

Sting is working the Scorpion on house shows. Is the thought that with the TV rating it would result in house shows drawing?

Are you there when Tony Zane portrays the Black Scorpion and then he gets arrested in the parking lot after the show for a marjiuana possession charge?

When do you know it’s going to be Sting vs. Black Scorpion at Starrcade?

At Halloween Havoc Sting and Sid Vicious finally face off one-on-one from Chicago’s UIC Pavilion in front of 8,000 fans and it’s announced as a sell out. Before the match there’s a segment with Tony Schiavone and Sting and well…it features the Black Scorpion and a woman and magic…

Halloween Havoc 1990 Sting has a lot on his mind 10/27/90

This isn’t the NWA you grew up with. This is just the attempt at being like the WWF in this type of gimmicks right?

Did Sting enjoy this stuff?

Later on we have Sting vs. Sid for the NWA Title. From the Observer: “Creativity vs. Credibility. In pro wrestling, you really can’t have both. The more you have of one, the less you have of the other. Without a doubt the finish of the Sting-Sid Vicious main event was the most creative finish to a major NWA show in many years. It ranks along with the twin referee finish of the Andre the Giant-Hulk Hogan NBC special for creativity. Sting kept the NWA Title beating Sid Vicious in 12:40. Vicious was cheered by more than half the crowd live. Match itself stunk for a main event, though no fault of Sting. Sid just can’t work, but he looks phenomenal standing still. The finish saw them brawl - if that’s what you would call it - to the dressing room while Ric Flair and Arn Anderson came out to divert everyone’s attention. Then they got back to the ring, but unbeknownst to everyone, it was Barry Windham dressed up like Sting. Windham collapsed on a bodyslam attempt and Vicious pinned him to apparently win the title. Fireworks went off and balloons started flying everywhere as Sid paraded around with the title with the place popping like a babyface had just won the strap. Then Sting comes out with a rope around his wrist - apparently the story line is that he was tied and broke free - ran to the ring while the fake Sting ran away with the ref watching and he re-started the match. Sting hit Vicious with the belt, splashed him in the corner and cradled him for the win. *½”

So much to unpack here. The finish being compared to Andre-Hulk. The crowd popping like crazy for Sid winning. What do you remember and think of this?

It’s reported in the Observer that it was Barry Windham’s idea for the finish. Is that how you remember it?

Is this a big sign when Sid gets a pop like that that maybe Sting isn’t the guy?

The gate in Chicago is the 3rd largest gate of 1990 with $115,000. That’s got to be considered a success. At this point do you think the brand is what’s carrying the bigger shows and Sting isn’t drawing at the houses?

There’s a legal battle brewing between the NWA and WCW. The NWA references are removed by Jim Herd until it can be worked out. Did you think at this time this was going to be the end of WCW referencing the NWA and was it well past the time for it?

Havoc looks like it lost about .7 buys but because they increased the price point it was a more profitable show. Are you surprised that Sting’s first title defense compared to his title victory drops so heavily?

Black Scorpion challenges Sting to meet him at the Clash of the Champions in Jacksonville as long as he’s protected in a cage and allowed to perform his magic. Jim - why does anyone care at this point?

At Clash of the Champions its announced that Dick the Bruiser will be the referee. Why Dick the Bruiser?

We covered Clash of the Champions 13 in the archives so be sure to check that out but the Black Scorpion performs magic tricks with spinning a man’s head around and a tiger. A tiger. Jim - how is this supposed to sell pay-per-view buys?

It’s announced that Starrcade will feature Sting vs. The Black Scorpion in a cage match and the title will be defended against the Scorpion’s mask. Also around this time the switch is made to start calling Sting the World Championship Wrestling World Champion. When are you told that is what you need to start referring him to and how hard is it to acclimate to?

Is it weird that Sting is the last NWA champion recognized by WCW instead of Ric Flair?

In the run up to Starrcade Sting is still cutting promos on Sid again. Was the thought to go back to that program?

When are you told it’s going to be Ric Flair as the Black Scorpion at Starrcade?

What do you remember of the conversations with both of these men in the run up to Starrcade?

We covered Starrcade 1990 in the archives and it’s an all-time Grilling JR so be sure to check it out but Jim Sting gets the win in what is a very good cage match before all the shenanigans with the Black Scorpion finally being revealed as Ric Flair. Was it good at this point to move on from the hokey magic and get focused back on professional wrestling?

From the Observer: “Probably around late November, with the house show situation reaching a new low, the decision was made to go back to Flair. Originally the change was to occur at Starrcade, with Flair wrestling as the Black Scorpion and winning the title. But Sting didn't want to put Flair over in that scenario. Sting refused since he wanted to finish the Scorpion scenario with a victory in the blow-off. as it became obvious the company insisted on the change, Sting agreed to do it on Jan. 11 at the Meadowlands. Since he did, Flair agreed to put Sting over, as Scorpion, for Starrcade.”

Is that how you remember it?

Are you amazed that wrestling at this point in time is like this? I’ll lose here for you here if you do this here type thing?

From the Observer regarding Sting’s title run:

“Realistically, Sting never had a chance. The fact that his return from knee surgery to win the title, a result that was hardly wrestling's best-kept secret, failed to sell out Baltimore, was an unheeded warning sign. Getting a huge pop and drawing huge houses aren't the same thing.

Still, Sting had to win the title on July 8. The match was the largest grossing NWA event since Ric Flair and Terry Funk sold out Baltimore a year earlier for Flair's comeback from a less legitimate injury but the same story. Although PPV figures are often unreliable, it appears the Flair-Sting match did the most money on PPV of any NWA show. While an argument can be made that Lex Luger, and not Sting, should have been given the title, to do so would have eliminated the biggest house of the year, the best PPV in company history (in terms of business, not show quality) and what should have been a solid two months or so of house show gates for rematches. At least in theory.

But to base the entire future of the company on someone who was untested in the position of champion, with the idea that there was no looking back, was foolish. The decibel level of Sting's entrances and the results of a demographic survey done by people who didn't know or understand the first thing about what draws money in the wrestling business did not mean Sting was going to be the 1990s answer to Hulk Hogan.

The answer was, that Sting deserved a chance. But in the meantime, if for some reason it didn't work, there was always Ric Flair.”

And there was Ric Flair at the Meadowlands across the ring from him in the middle of a blizzard.

“8. Ric Flair pinned Sting in 20:38 to regain the WCW title. Crowd was split 50-50 for the first eight minutes. Sting got the larger pop coming out, although Flair was obviously very much respected. When Flair and Sting did their yells, a spot designed to put over Sting, Flair got a big reaction for his, Sting got every bit as big an initial reaction for his but suddenly a lot of boos. Sting really wasn't into this match which held it back but still it was much better than anything else on the card. This match was nowhere close to the match these two had in the same building in August, however. The crowd became more-and-more pro-Flair as it went on, as he basically did his normal routine. Pacing was slow, but it was all action with no rest spots and the crowd was totally into it. Finish saw Sting come off the top rope and hit Flair and the ref. Sting had Flair pinned but no ref. Sting put Flair in a small package for another visionary fall but no ref. When the ref recovered, Flair hit a shoulderblock and fell on Sting for the pin. At the count of two, Sting got his foot on the ropes but Flair scooped it off before the ref saw it. ***½”

Is Sting’s first title run a disappointment in your mind?

What could’ve been changed to make it more successful?

Was it Sting’s fault or as Meltzer said…was it destined to fail?