Grilling JR - When Bret Became a Heel Again [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today Jim we’re going to be discussing one of the most controversial times in World Wrestling Federation history as we’re going to be breaking down the end of Bret Hart’s run in the WWF

1996 closes with the build to Sid vs. Shawn Michaels at the Royal Rumble in San Antonio which we covered a few weeks ago but at the same time Bret vs. Shawn is slowly coming to the forefront again. When 1997 starts - regardless of Steve Austin’s rise, the fact that Sid is the World Champion, WrestleMania 13 is going to be Shawn vs. Bret am I right?

Bret has written in his book that he doesn’t really know where his character is going at this time. Is he the only one at this point that doesn’t know he’s turning heel?

We just covered the Rumble so check it out in the archives but the night after the Rumble is one of the classic moments where Bret Hart opens the show and berates Vince McMahon at ringside - which is one of the first times it’s acknowledge on TV that Vince is the owner of the WWF - and Bret goes on and on about how he’s been screwed by everyone including Shawn.

Bret Hart wants to quit from WWF (Monday Night Raw 20th January 1997)

Was the heat between Shawn & Bret evident here or is it starting to percolate to the surface?

It’s decided that to make things right from the end of the Royal Rumble that there would be a Final Four match at the February In Your House between Bret, Steve, Vader & Taker to determine the real #1 contender for WrestleMania. The plan is to put Bret over is that right?

On Raw from Toronto Michaels & Hart have a confrontation and Jim we’re going to be doing a watch along of this show next week so we’ll cover all of it then but be sure to stay tuned for Grilling JR for that Raw because it’s a big one!

On upcoming house show booking sheets for Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit the main event is Sid & Bret Hart against Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels. Who’s the babyfaces and the heels here? Is this the true beginning of shades of grey?

Bret writes in his book about how Steve Austin came to him to tell him that Shawn & Hunter were telling Steve that Bret had refused to put Steve over and later that night at a house show in Ottawa Pat Patterson asked Bret to put Hunter over to show the boys. The amount of distrust and issues going on in the locker room goes back to what you’ve always said Jim…you want a locker room full of team players. Were Shawn & Hunter team players at the time?

When Bret reaches out to Vince regarding this Vince drops a bomb on him - Sid is going to go over Shawn at Thursday Raw Thursday to win the title with Bret’s help and now Taker vs. Sid is going to be the main event with Bret vs. Shawn underneath. Vince tells Bret it’s too predictable and that’s why it changed and Bret speculates it’s that Shawn didn’t want to put Bret over. What do you think the truth is?

The expectation has always been that Shawn came up with the knee injury to get out of doing the job to Bret at WrestleMania. But could it have been he didn’t want to lose to Sid?

From the Observer: “Michaels' career was teased as being over due to a knee injury portrayed on television Thursday as being so bad even reconstructive surgery may not to able to repair the damage as a teary-eyed Michaels, whose problem was clearly in the interview not a knee injury, said farewell to the WWF in a classic interview repeated to death on television and PPV about 100 times in the ensuing weekend. It wound up only to have noted orthopedic surgeon Dr. Jim Andrews say Michaels' knee injury wouldn't even require surgery at all, and that after four to six weeks of rehab, he may be able to return. And at press time, it appears the plan is for Michaels to now be put back into the Wrestlemania mix, although not as a wrestler, perhaps doing announcing or as a special referee, wrestle a few major shows during the summer and return full-time in the fall.”

Shawn Michaels Lost His Smile (13/02/1997)

Bret writes in his book that Taker tells Bret that night when they find out that Shawn didn’t want to drop the belt. How quickly does this all change? From the live Thursday Raw - to a pay-per-view in Final Four you need to promote in 3 days to another live Raw on Monday where Bret Hart drops the WWF Title to Sid…is this all determined in the afternoon of that Raw in Lowell, Mass?

So Bret goes over in the Final Four to become a 4-time WWF Champion. From the Observer: “5. Bret Hart won the WWF title in the Final Four elimination match over Steve Austin, Vader and Undertaker in 24:05. During the last weekend, they announced that eliminations could be done by throwing someone over the top rope along with the pins and submissions. An excellent main event but the effect of the ultimate title win by Hart was taken down several pegs by the circumstances which included outside interference in the final elimination and the fact all the eliminations were by the added "job-saving" over-the-top-rope stip. You have to give all four credit in that this is a difficult match to put together in that you don't want to be walking on somebody else's spots. The star of the match was Vader, who after a series of lackluster performances probably caused as much by illness and injuries as anything to the point people were writing him off as a major star, staged an impressive comeback. Finally at 18:09, Hart threw Austin over the top rope. Vader then clipped Undertaker and the two began working on him. Paul Bearer hit Undertaker with the urn. Hart superplexed Vader while standing on the top rope and Vader nearly took the bump on his head. Hart had Vader in the sharpshooter but Undertaker saved Vader by lariating Hart. Austin came back to the ring and began attacking Hart and posted his face. Vader was on the ropes readying the Vader bomb when Undertaker sat up and gave him a low blow and he went over the top in 23:33. Undertaker choke slammed Hart and went for the tombstone, but Austin grabbed Hart's legs and pulled him down and crotched him on the top rope. Undertaker went after Austin but Hart came from behind with a rolling reverse cradle for a near fall. Undertaker then went back after Austin and Hart clotheslined Undertaker over the top to win the title. After a celebration that didn't really come off as very celebratory, Sid hit the ring and he and Hart did a stare-down to build up their Raw match the next night as the show went off the air. ****¼”

Jim this is such an amazing match that you really should go out of your way to watch it. But Meltzer points out that this is basically a battle royal as no one gets pinned. Was this a way to get around that considering it’s a main event put together in three days and you need to figure it out?

Was there a reason we never saw a match like this again?

Does Bret ever come to you and say, “I think Shawn is full of shit.”

Shawn also wrote in his book that if Vince pushed Shawn to put Bret over at Mania he would. Do you believe that?

Bret works Sid in the main event of Raw and drops the title to him in Nashville and debuts the figure-four leglock around the ring post. How amazing is this spot?

Sid gets the win with the powerbomb after Austin hits Bret with a chair while Sid is in the sharpshooter and now we’re set for Mania. Sid vs. Taker and Bret vs. Austin. Do you think this was the right way to go compared to Bret vs. Shawn instead? Did this make the show better in your mind?

Bret heads on the European tour that now doesn’t have Shawn which is probably a welcome break for Bret. This is Bret’s last European tour with the company. Is there a way to really put into words how important Bret is to the European market and the impact he had on it?

Now Bret has always talked about how he doesn’t refuse to lose. But he tells a story from this tour for the first Raw from Europe and how Jerry Brisco tells Bret he wants him to lose to Hunter and Bret questions it because they’re building Austin and Bret for Mania and if it makes sense for him to lose. Bret takes it up with Vince and Vince changes it to a DQ. Jim - is this refusing to do a job in your opinion?

On March 9th in Springfield Bret talks about a meeting with Vince he has that talks about in his book and it describes how Vince sells him on the program with Steve Austin that’ll revolve around Austin turning babyface at Mania 13 but Bret a heel. Vince tells Bret who he’ll be working with as a heel and it’s Taker, Michaels & Austin. Then Vince throws the kicker in…he’ll be a babyface in every other country but only a heel in America. Do you know if Vince came up with this idea or someone else?

When you hear this idea do you think it can work?

Bret’s hesitant to do it obviously but he agrees. Vince also goes over how he wants the double turn to go down at Mania. What a stroke of creative genius is it not?

Within weeks it’s already announced that Shawn Michaels will return at WrestleMania and be ringside for the main event with Undertaker and Sid. How much heat does this bring with Bret or has he moved on about it at this point?

The go-home Raw on March 17th in Syracuse has the classic Sid vs. Bret cage match for the WWF Title. It’s only classic for the promo afterwards that takes place.

Bret Hart's Uncensored Promo | March 17, 1997 Raw

My goodness Jim. He shoves Vince down, curses up a storm and then it turns into a brawl which also includes the infamous line from Sid as he comes back down the aisle, “I don’t know shit!” This is really the birth of the Attitude era but what did you think of the language here? Was it necessary to get the angle over?

At the Rosemont Horizon Bret & Steve put together a clinic and something that I don’t know can ever be done again. From the Observer:

“Bret Hart and Steve Austin more than saved the show with a match phenomenal in workrate, intensity, and telling a story, resulting in the expected double turn--Austin to being the loner but top babyface in the promotion; Hart to being the promotion's top heel. With the aid of the blade, tremendous announcing and Hart's performance, Austin's face turn couldn't have been structured any better. Hart's performance in doing three run-ins during the Sid vs. Undertaker title match nearly saved that match as well. And by backing off from Ken Shamrock after the match with Austin, Hart established Shamrock immediately as a force to be reckoned with down the line. An incredible brawl from bell-to-bell with psychology and timing the likes of which you'll only see when the best go against each other. The crowd seemed almost totally behind Hart at this point even though the announcers were telling the story of a changed Hart against an almost heroic Austin. Hart worked over Austin's knee until Austin hit the stone cold stunner. Hart came back and wrapped Austin's knee around the post and gave him a figure four around the post which Austin refused to submit to. Bret got "frustrated" at Austin not submitting and used the ring bell on him. He teased the Pillman spot by putting Austin's ankle in the chair, but Austin escaped. Austin hit Hart with a hard chair shot to the head and another to the back. Austin set up a sharpshooter but Hart poked his eyes. Even at this stage Hart was getting the larger percentage of cheers while the story being told by the announcers was of Hart as the heel, but not so overtly so as to lose credibility. Austin took a bump into the guard rail knocking down two officials in the process and juiced at this point. Hart then posted him and Austin bled heavily. After a few chair shots to the knee, Hart went for the sharpshooter but Austin escaped with an eye rake and followed with a low blow and a superplex. Austin began choking Hart with an extension cord but Hart got the ring bell and clocked Austin with it. Hart finally got the sharpshooter on and held it for a long time. At one time it appeared Austin broke it, but Hart maneuvered back into the position and eventually Austin "passed out" from the pain and Ken Shamrock called the match. Hart still got a large babyface pop for winning, but the crowd began to turn on him as he attacked Austin's knee after the match. Finally Shamrock got behind Hart and suplexed him to break up the post-match attack. Shamrock and Hart squared off and then Hart backed off and left the ring--this was the coup de grace in the heel turn and the crowd booed him heavily. Austin eventually revived, selling the knee big-time, but still gave another ref a stone cold stunner and left the ring limping with the crowd chanting his name. This is one we'll remember for a long time. *****”

That’s it Jim. ***** from Meltzer. The full boat…well at that time. It really is a masterpiece. The shot of Austin sitting up with blood dripping down his face is iconic. What else can we add about this?

At WrestleMania 13 Michaels comes out to be on commentary for the main event with the big entrance and does the nWo 4 life sign. Bret comes out and calls Michaels a pussy and a faker. Does Vince know he’s already going to go back to Bret vs. Shawn?

The next night on Raw Bret cuts this epic heel promo that really cements his heel turn but he focuses on Shawn as the face of the upcoming program. Shawn comes out and defends the fans and that Bret “the Mark Man” takes his accomplishments way too seriously. Shawn challenges Bret to “Love it or Leave It” and Bret attacks!

Bret Hart turns Heel - Raw after Wrestlemania 13 & Trashes his American Fans! (Part 1)

Bret Hart turns Heel - Shawn Michaels interrupts Bret's promo & gets jumped! (Part 2) WWF

Did this heel character breathe life into Bret? I mean it had been at this point almost 7 years since he was last a heel. He did need this didn’t he?

The next week Bret interrupts Davey Boy Smith & Owen Hart - the current tag team champions who are fighting over the European title - to reform the Hart Foundation. How big a deal is it to put these 3 back together?

Hart Foundation 1997 forms. Part 2 of 2.

Owen is great in this, Davey is great in this, and Bret is phenomenal in this. Was the plan always to put the Hart Foundation back together or was this a product of just working the storyline?

Later that night Bret is scheduled to take on the Intercontinental Champion Rocky Maivia - not quite yet the Rock - and as he tells it in his book that Hunter was insisting that Bret go over but Bret rejects the idea and gives Rocky the win by DQ. Bret said even back then he saw how big a star Rocky could be and you can see that relationship still today with Rock doing a video honoring Bret for entering the Canadian Walk of Fame. How often did you - as head of talent relations - go to Bret for his opinion on talent?

Bret is on a South African/Kuwaiti tour when Shawn Michaels goes on TV and cuts what Bret refers to as a shoot interview. Shawn talks about how Bret only came back to the WWF for the money and what Bret is most pissed off about is that he does with Vince holding the microphone. Do you think Shawn went into business for himself with this promo and did Bret have the right to be pissed at Shawn and even Vince?

WWF Raw 4/07/1997 - Shawn Michaels Has Some Words for Bret Hart (Part 1)

WWF Raw 4/07/1997 - Shawn Michaels Has Some Words for Bret Hart (Part 2)

From the Observer: “Shawn Michaels did about a 15:00 interview which was pretty much a shoot interview. It was easily the best segment on either show although it got murdered in the ratings, and Michaels did a tremendous job of getting himself over as a babyface. He said he and Bret loathe each other both in wrestling and in real life. He said Bret didn't just turn bad guy, that Bret was always a bad guy, that he used his parents, his sister and his kids to get on TV so he could make money. He said if Bret could make a buck, he'd sell his mother (there were significant boos for Shawn at that one). He said six years ago (he got his time line wrong by about 18 months--Shawn's first IC reign and Bret's first WWF title reign were in October 1992) when he got the IC belt and Bret got the WWF belt that he was happy playing second fiddle to Bret but when it was Bret's turn to play second fiddle, he kicked and scratched every inch of the way. He said Bret took time off because he thought the WWF and Michaels would collapse while he was gone, but instead they had the best business they'd had in six years and asked McMahon if it was true and McMahon agreed. Reality break, folks. It goes without saying that in the ring Michaels did a super job in 1996 and he was my pick as Wrestler of the year. However, let's not re-write history to say Shawn's reign was Hogan-like from a business standpoint because nothing could be farther from the truth. TV ratings collapsed in June of 1996 on Shawn's watch, not Bret's, and reached company all-time lows for the rest of the year. But the buy rates fell through his reign and it was during Shawn's reign for the first time in a decade that WWF in both PPV and TV ratings fell to the No. 2 company in the U.S. And when it came to house shows, while WWF had a strong year in 1996, its best months were February and March, and who was the champion at that point? The summer was good, but there was a serious decline in the fall, at which point Vince threw everything he could to get Bret back including promise him the title belt. Let's not forget that there were numerous cases of Michaels throwing unprofessional hissy fits throughout his title reign in the ring. I guess people trying to rewrite reality that Michaels' reign as champion was this huge business success doesn't jive with the facts, and if it was the case, why did the WWF want to take the title off him twice with Sid--the second time ruining what they'd spent a year building in the Bret vs. Shawn title rematch--if he'd been such a Hogan-like success from a business standpoint? Michaels said that Hart used a rival organization to stab the WWF, who made him, in the back into upping the money he could get (I sort of call that smart negotiating). He than said Bret can't separate wrestling from real life, he's obsessed with the limelight and the title, and said it used to bother him when fans cheered Bret but now he realizes fans can cheer for who they want. He said all the super heroes and role models (referring to Hart and Hogan) couldn't live up to it (amen on that) and that he isn't claiming to be a role model, only that if you pay to see him wrestle he'll work harder to give you a good show than anyone.”

Jim this is a ton of inside baseball and you got Meltzer correcting facts but is this compelling TV? A lot of people nowadays talk about demos and buyrates and all this but back in 1997 this isn’t really common knowledge. Does it really help sell tickets talking about how Bret tried to leave and HBK had the company on this back?

Bret gets hurt at the end of the Kuwaiti tour and requires knee surgery. It’s figured out that Bret would work Steve at In Your House: Revenge of Taker and then the next night on Raw in one of the most infamous segments in 1997 - Austin would injure Bret’s knee and put him on the shelf.

Stone Cold Attacks Bret Hart In An Ambulance!

The scene of Austin attacking Bret to this day is one of the best I’ve ever seen. What was it about those two that just made art?

Looking back … with Bret being hurt and the Hart Foundation coming around him including Brian Pillman & Jim Neidhart … was it perfect timing? Bret as the guy on crutches with all the family around him like he’s the Godfather. It really sells how freaking good Bret was on the microphone.

Bret promises to rehab quickly and in the Observer Meltzer reports that Michaels is hopeful to be back in the ring in May and to take on Bret at King of the Ring. How tenuous is the relationship with Bret & Shawn and is this something Vince is managing directly? What are the odds in your mind at this time that this match actually makes it to the ring?

Meltzer writes this in the Observer and I think it’s an interesting point: “All this shoot stuff makes for fascinating television for some people, but it's one thing if it's Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels using it as ammo to sell tickets for an eventual match, but to do it in that way and waste TV time airing real stuff on a fake TV show is kind of unprofessional.”

This is in reference to WCW also running inside angles but this is something that happened a lot in the late 90s. Do you think the success of Bret and Shawn in this scenario bred more “shoot-type” angles?

In Bret’s book he talks about how he talked to Vince about bringing Bruce Hart back. Did you ever hear about that?

There were a lot of comparisons at that time between the Hart Foundation and the nWo. Do you think that’s a fair comparison?

May 12th, 1997 - it is a pivotal moment in the Bret and Shawn saga.

It’s announced that at King of the Ring … Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels with the following stipulations: The Hart Foundation would have to be handcuffed to each other around ringposts, and if Bret didn’t beat Shawn in under 10 minutes Bret would never wrestle in the United States again. Jim do you know if this match was going to happen what the plan was for it because those are some big stipulations?

The Hart Foundation - now including Jim Neidhart - close the show on Raw with cutting a promo on Shawn Michaels. It goes super long though and Bret misses his time cue - as Bret claims - and the show goes off the air without Michaels hitting the superkick.

You’re at ringside when this is happening - what do you remember of everyone yelling about the time cue and the show running off the air? Do you hear the chaos in your ear?

Bret Hart Calls Out Shawn Michaels Stone Cold Steve Austin Saves Shawn Off Air WWE Raw 5-12-1997

It seems to be known that Shawn thought Bret went long on purpose to double cross him. Do you believe that?

The footage is shown after the fact on Shotgun and Superstars, etc but that had to leave a bad taste in Shawn’s mouth does it not?

May 19th in Mobile, AL is another infamous moment in the Bret & Shawn story.

Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels "Sunny Days" Comment

You’ve talked in the past about Bret and Shawn cutting too deep and the Sunny Days comment in particular. But did you think at this point it’s gone too far?

Bret mentions in his book that you phoned him directly and apologized for Shawn’s behavior. What do you remember of that conversation?

At the end of that Raw Austin beats Neidhart in under 2 minutes by DQ when the Hart Foundation interfere and it’s announced that next week Shawn Michaels’ in-ring return would be for the Tag Team Titles along side Steve Austin against Owen & Davey Boy.

Having Neidhart back is something that Bret feels was pushed on him because he’s rushed to come back from his surgery to keep the heat and program going. Do you think if Bret didn’t come back fast enough Neidhart wouldn’t have been used?

From Shawn’s book: “I returned to the ring on May 25 … I couldn’t wait to get back in the ring. I flew around all over the place and put on one of my best performances. Early on in the match, I did my backflip off the top, and I did it for a very specific reason. I knew that everyone, including Bret, was saying that I faked in my knee injury to get out of putting him over at WrestleMania. I wanted to rub it in their face. Every time I heard rumors about me, I made sure I did something to stick it to the guys who were spreading them.”

Was Shawn right in his antics at this time or wrong? He feels like he’s been pushed to this point in his mind and he’s reacting but it’s hard to defend his actions here is it not?

On June 2nd Bret brings up in his book that Vince for the first time brings up the company’s financial issues. Does Vince tell you ahead of time he’s planning on talking to Bret about his contract? Do you know the financial state of the company at this point? Could the company afford Bret or was it just Vince trying to get out of the deal?

Well we all know what happens next…the backstage fight. First from Shawn’s point of view:

“By the time I wrestled in the tag match, Bret and I had nearly reached the breaking point. He had said bad things about my folks and apologized, but now he had gone on to stir things up by telling the dirt sheets and others that I faked my injury and retired before WrestleMania 13 in order to avoid putting him over. On June 9, we had a television taping in Hartford. I was in the dressing room when he came up to me and said, “I just want to say …” I cut him off before he could finish. “Don’t talk to me. You haven’t said a word to me for three weeks. If you can’t talk to me for three weeks, I don’t want to talk to you now.” I don’t think Bret was used to people talking like that to him. About five minutes later, I was turning around to get some gear out of my bag and I felt somebody push me from behind. I turned around and Bret asked, “What’s your fucking problem?” “You!” I yelled. He tried to punch me, but I peeled back and he missed. He pushed me again, and this time I stood up. He swung again and missed. The next thing I knew, he went for a double leg dive. I caught him around the upper body and we went straight back through a piece of paneling. We had each other in front face locks when Pat Patterson and Davey Boy came over and grabbed us. Pat was yelling, “Come on, you guys!” I let go and Bret yanked a handful of my hair off my head. That hurt like heck, but I didn’t retaliate. The fight was over. I went storming into Vince’s office and told him, “I’m out of here, this is b.s.!” I saw Aldo Montoya—who later wrestled here as Justin Credible—and asked him if he’d give me a ride back to my hotel. He wasn’t working that night, so he took me. I missed the show and flew home the next day. Vince sent my lawyer, Skip McCormick, who I had hired when I found out about Bret’s contract, a letter stating that I had violated my contract. Skip responded by writing a letter claiming that WWE had failed to provide a safe working environment. Skip told me that they were trying to blame everything on me, but once he wrote the letter, it would be back in their lap and they would ask me to come back. That’s exactly what happened.”

Now Bret’s point of view: “At about 6 p.m., I went into the bathroom to gel my hair before going across the hall to tape interviews. I was surprised to see Shawn’s reflection go by me in the mirror. I could see he was uptight, so I smiled and casually said, “Hey, Shawn . . .” He cut me off. “Fuck you! You haven’t talked to me in over a fucking month, what makes you think I’m gonna talk to you now?” Even though I had hair gel all over my hands, I was primed to go back to my original plan, but Shawn vanished through the doorway, past Crush, who was lacing his boots up and heard the whole thing. I set out to find Shawn, but he was gone. I paced around the backstage area until Owen, Davey, Jim and Pillman came to find me. “I know Shawn’s watching from somewhere, waiting for me to leave this room,” I said. “I’ll bet you the second I walk out of here, he’ll walk in. All his stuff is in here. Watch.” I crossed the hall, walked into the interview room and cracked open the door to peek back out into the hall. Shawn strode past me into the dressing room. He was bent over fixing his boots when I marched straight up to him. I pushed him to his feet. “You got something to say to me?” He flicked a weak punch at me and missed. Balancing awkwardly on my good leg, I popped him on the chin, rocking him on his heels. He came for me, so I grabbed him by his long mane and pretended I was doing a hammer throw at the Olympics. I was dragging him around the room when a hysterical Pat and a frantic Lawler ran in and jumped on top of me. Unable to pry me off, Pat shouted for the other wrestlers to help, but Davey and Crush had no intention of saving Shawn. It was nothing but a scritch-fight really, but when we were finally separated, clumps of Shawn’s precious hair fell from my hands. I blasted him: “Don’t fuck with me or my family, you little fucker.” Shawn looked ready to burst into tears as he stomped across the hall to Vince’s office. Shouting loud enough for everyone to hear, Shawn quit, saying it was an unsafe working environment. Then he stormed off, slamming doors behind him. Vince looked like a jilted lover whose boy toy had up and left him. But he told me that this had not only been inevitable, but was long overdue, and that it was his fault for not dealing with Shawn sooner. He told me to take the night off.

This was a long time coming and destined to happen and the fact it happened backstage instead of in the ring is probably a miracle. Who’s in the right…the wrong…was Shawn overreacting about an unsafe working environment?

How do you hear about the fight? Lawler? What is Vince saying to you about this?