Grilling JR - Royal Rumble 1997 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today Jim we’re going to be discussing one of the biggest shows in World Wrestling Federation history. Royal Rumble 1997.

We’re coming off In Your House, “It’s Time” which featured Sid defeating Bret Hart to retain the WWF World Title, the Undertaker defeating the Executioner in a Last Man Standing match, and the show ends with a brawl between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. The plans are in motion to put Bret and Shawn back together at WrestleMania right?

Raw the next night opens with Vader and Steve Austin which we covered in our recent Steve Austin 95-96 episode so be sure to check that out. Bret interferes and hits Austin.

https://twitter.com/OTD_in_WWE/status/1471469600902717449?s=20

This seems like Bret is moving more towards a heel. Did you get that feeling as well?

You have an interview with Bret. https://twitter.com/OTD_in_WWE/status/1471468815590596610?s=20

How great was Bret on the microphone?

There’s a promo exchange between Goldust and Jerry Lawler I need to bring up. From Meltzer: “They did an angle turning Goldust both heterosexual and babyface, since the two go hand-in-hand. Marlena, with Marc Mero by her side, beat Jerry Lawler, with Hunter Hearst Helmsley by his side, in the karate fighters championship match. Lawler and Helmsley then attacked Mero and Goldust did a run-in and chased Helmsley away. Mero and Helmsley then brawled to the back leaving Goldust and Lawler in the ring. Lawler was cowering and said he had no problem with Goldust and he should be happy a guy like Helmsley who is rich and good-looking and the IC champ is after Marlena and finally, very lightly, asked Goldust if he was a queer and Goldust responded "No" loudly and decked him and Marlena came out with her conquering hero”

Looking at this now is just…something obviously you can’t do in this era. But man this is hard to watch then let alone now don’t you think?

The finals of the Karate Fighters tourney takes place between Jerry Lawler and Sable. Is this one of your crowning achievements in your career?

https://twitter.com/OTD_in_WWE/status/1471470661629616138?s=20

There’s an angle with Billy and Bart in their match. From Meltzer: Billy Gunn wrestled Bart Gunn and they did the Shawn Michaels angle over again, but this time nobody was buying it. Billy supposedly broke his neck and laid there not moving while Billy and Bares wife hit the ring (if it was there wives as I'm not certain in this case). Billy's wife was overacting while Bart was acting distraught at what he'd done to his so-called brother.

Bart vs. Billy finish - https://twitter.com/OTD_in_WWE/status/1471473656173928449?s=20

Billy Gunn has talked about this before. He said in an interview once he was actually hurt and went numb at a house show. To give him time off they do this angle and give it some heat. But the company ends up asking him to stick around for the house show run until he could actually take time off. Do you remember this and why did it go down the way it did?

At the Raw taping Honky Tonk Man returned to the company after 6 years. How did this come together and who was behind it?

The next week on Raw Mil Mascaras is introduced as the greatest wrestler out of Mexico and you interview him.

Jim Ross interviews Mil Mascaras - https://twitter.com/OTD_in_WWE/status/1474141928094633999?s=20

Pierroth Jr. & Cibernetico debut against the new Rockers and it’s…not great. When a deal is made with AAA to help promote with the Royal Rumble were you all expecting these high flyers like what’s going on in WCW’s cruiserweight division and these guys…weren’t?

From the Observer: “There were loud NWO chants every time Razor and Diesel were in the ring. This thing just isn't working. From the commentary, I get the impression they realize it isn't with Rick Bogner, but are trying to salvage something out of Glen Jacobs because he has the size and everyone likes how hard he's trained and has attempted to improve, but even so, he's still never shown any spark yet.”

Was this how everyone was taking a look at Razor and Diesel at this point?

It’s been in talks for months now that ECW is going to run a pay per view. Did the WWF have anything to do with it in terms of helping?

Did you ever hear of the New Jack - Mass Transit incident and how that derailed the plan of the ECW pay-per-view?

Was it a good thing for the business to have ECW on pay-per-view?

Shotgun Saturday night is about to debut. How many different versions of this show were talked about before the final product debuted?

Did you think this was a show that was going to be a success?

Who’s dealing with AAA and how they’re being promoted and put on the shows? Is that Bruce?

AAA is scheduled to have matches at the Alamo Dome not for the main show. Is the goal to help fill up the show with the AAA influence or to also get a look at talent to bring into the company?

The Rumble is announced with 25 guys from the World Wrestling Federation and the rumor is Terry Funk is going to be at the Rumble. How does that deal come together?

Hector Garza leaves EMLL for AAA and also for the chance to be in the WWF. He has a match against Jeff Hardy at the TV taping in Tampa and impressed WWF officials. What was it about Garza that impressed WWF officials?

At a Superstars taping in Daytona Beach I want to bring up some interesting things. Aldo Montoya … the future Justin Credible … defeated Mike Awesome. What was it about Mike Awesome back then… big guy which is something the WWF looks for … that didn’t click?

Goldust beats the Executioner and Paul Bearer hits Gordy with the urn after the match and it’s Terry Gordy’s last appearance for the company. It just didn’t work, did it Jim?

From the Observer: “Undertaker pinned Goon. Goon used the hockey stick first but Taker got it from him and used it on him before putting on the tombstone. Cornette started yelling about Undertaker and then the lights went out. When they went on, Undertaker was behind Cornette and gave him a tombstone and put him in a body bag. As Cornette was being carried out in the body bag, the agents kept dropping him accidentally on purpose and everyone was laughing about it.”

OK how funny was this and how hot was Jim in the back?

Also from the Observer: “Vince Russo as Vic Venum, basically doing a Mark Madden gimmick, predicted Hart to win the Rumble to get himself over.”

When this happens on Livewire … how pissed off was Vince McMahon? Did McMahon really change the finish of the Rumble because of this?

Monday Night Raw taping happens on December 30th and it’s a historic taping. It is the first Raw that ever draws a $100,000 house. Is this something of a big moment for the WWF?

On that show there’s a classic promo exchange between Bret & Michaels that you’re in the ring for.

https://twitter.com/OTD_in_WWE/status/1476539590815236107?s=20

Bret has said before that he didn’t feel comfortable with the homophobia portion of this promo and that it was Shawn & Vince pushing for it. Did Vince and Shawn push Bret to certain points do you think that really created all the heat between Shawn & Bret?

The Grimm Twins are let go from the WWF. What was it about Ron & Don Harris that didn’t work this time around?

From the Observer: “Live Wire format changed again this week. Jim Ross was on with Vic Venom. The newsworthiness was the last 15 minutes they didn't screen the calls so they said, and it was obvious they were telling the truth since most of the calls were about WCW. Ross was very negative toward WCW, saying he fell asleep during the Hogan-Piper match and said that Hall & Nash (who were brought up by several callers) maybe should attend a WWF PPV show because they haven't been near a good PPV show since they left the WWF. When asked about signing Randy Savage, Ross said that the WWF was interested in recruiting younger athletes and that they weren't looking for "my" (Ross') age to be wrestlers.”

You were throwing some Red Ass JR on this show. What do you remember about this?

Jerry Lawler buys out Jerry Jarrett for his half of the USWA. What do you remember about this and did you talk to Lawler about it?

Shotgun Saturday Night debuts and it is unlike any other WWF production. That’s on purpose I’m sure but what did you think of the product?

There’s talk of putting Bradshaw & Windham together as the New Blackjacks. Does anything with the word “New” in front of it ever get over?

It’s reported in the Observer that Tiger Jeet & Tiger Ali Singh are on their way in. How does this deal all come together?

We’re at the show now Jim and it’s a big one. 60,525 fans and it’s the second largest paid attendance in the United States at that point. The Alamo Dome in San Antonio…what’s it like walking into that arena for the show?

The show is not well received from Observer readers. 46.1% voted thumbs down and Meltzer was critical of the show. “From a match quality standpoint, this wasn't a good show. The Rumble match was a one-man show with nobody else even making a dent. Michaels, bothered by the flu, had his worst PPV match in several years, although in his home town with a crowd that had come largely to see only one match, it came off well as a spectacle and to many hid the workrate. Sid may also have not been at 100% due to having an auto accident nine days earlier although he had worked three house show dates in the interim, as he did almost nothing. The crowd shots and generally strong production were the highlights of a show that contained average to fair wrestling.”

Is that a fair assessment in your mind of this show?

From the Observer: “After several years, they finally got Jim Ross in the black cowboy hat as a full-time gimmick.”

OK Jim. So who convinced you to do it? Did you know it was going to be a full-time gimmick?

“1. Hunter Hearst Helmsley retained the IC title pinning Goldust in 16:50. Helmsley was accompanied by Curtis Hughes, who was referred to as both Curtis Hughes and Mr. Hughes and referred to as Helmsley's butler as opposed to bodyguard. During the pre-game show when Dok Hendrix was running down the participants in the Rumble and mentioned Goldust, he was heavily booed as he was during his ring introduction so the turn hasn't quite gotten over like they thought. There was also a big babyface pop for Helmsley winning the match. After Goldust missed an elbow off the top, Mr. Hughes threw the belt to Helmsley. Hughes distracted the ref and Helmsley kissed Marlena. Goldust beat Helmsley to the punch and clocked him with the belt but as the ref was doing the count, Hughes pulled Helmsley out of the ring. Goldust then slammed Marlena's cigar in Hughes' face, but this allowed Helmsley to recover and he hit the Pedigree for the win. Helmsley has potential, but at this point, he's being pushed only on potential and politics, and because he's got a good head of hair. His work is only slightly better than average and his interviews and persona are below average. **”

Meltzer is really critical of Helmsley here. Was it just potential and politics why he was being pushed?

Mr. Hughes makes his return here. How does Curtis make his way back into the company?

Was Goldust just not capable of being a babyface at this point?

“2. Ahmed Johnson beat Faarooq in 8:48 when the entire Nation of Domination interfered for the DQ. Johnson cleaned house on most of them, including pressing Wolfie D and throwing him over the top rope onto the other members, and afterwards chased down another member and gave him a Pearl River plunge through the French broadcast table. Better than expected. *½”

This is a match that’s built up for literally months. Was this just a disappointment?

“3. Vader pinned Undertaker in 13:19. After the big ring entrance pop for Undertaker, the crowd died for most of the match. Not a good match at all. Paul Bearer came to ringside during the match and will apparently become Vader's new manager as Jim Cornette wasn't there, with the idea he's selling the injury from the angle on Superstars. Actually since Cornette won't be going on the road and Bearer is on the road full-time and has the natural feud with Undertaker and Vader is being programmed with Undertaker, it makes sense in that regard. At one point Undertaker did a springboard off the ring steps, but Bearer shoved Vader out of the way and Undertaker crashed into the guard rail. Finish saw Bearer come off the apron and clock Undertaker with the urn (and at Bearer's weight and with his athletic ability, it was actually a risky spot). Vader threw Undertaker into the ring and hit the Vader bomb for the pin. Undertaker choke slammed the ref after the match. *¼”

This is a big win for Vader who really needs this after the Shawn Michaels program. With Taker losing and Paul Bearer going with Vader now is this kind of a renewed thing for Leon?

“4. Hector Garza & Perro Aguayo & Canek beat Jerry Estrada & Heavy Metal & Fuerza Guerrera in 10:56. This match had no heat at all. The crowd didn't even know Aguayo and once that was the case, the match had no chance. The announcers gave this match tons more respect than WCW would have, but they also didn't have a Mike Tenay who had a clue of more than a few facts about the guys. But this couldn't hold a candle to the Mexican matches in WCW. Vince McMahon was particularly bad although he didn't treat it with disdain like WCW announcers like Dusty Rhodes and Bobby Heenan have, but came off bad mixing up Estrada and Metal on several occasions, even after he'd been corrected. Jim Ross tried, and knew a few facts but not enough to carry the match, but was smart enough to even mention on the air after the lack of crowd reaction that in the future they'll be giving fans more information on these wrestlers to better acquaint them with them. When talking bout Canek, Ross mentioned that he held a win against Lou Thesz (August 27, 1978 to win the UWA world heavyweight title for the first time), which, to the few who know who Thesz is these days, would have made it appear that Canek must be about 65-years-old. He's actually 44. He was 26 and Thesz was 62 when the match took place. Canek is probably also the only wrestler who ever pinned Andre the Giant in the deciding fall of a two out of three falls match and was a huge star in his prime in Mexico but that was years ago. The hottest move was Garza doing his corkscrew plancha which got a big response. It was interesting to see Metal, who is Garza's usual tag partner in AAA, on the heel side and the two shook hands to acknowledge that but the announcers didn't know the story there so much of what was done had no meaning since the audience live clearly didn't know who anyone was since AAA doesn't mean anything in San Antonio and it meant even less to those on PPV without it being told to them. Finish saw Aguayo use the double foot stomp off the top rope on Metal, although he actually missed the move and recognized it, and did a piss poor elbow drop on him for the pin. *”

How hard is it to try and get something like this over for 6 guys cold to the company?

“5. Steve Austin won the Royal Rumble in 50:29. This wasn't one of the better Rumbles, nor one of the worst. Basically the Steve Austin show, as he lasted just over 45:00 and eliminated 11 people, which has to be some kind of a record. He did the Ric Flair and the Diesel gimmick in the same match. Mascaras, at age 58, looked surprisingly good (only because I've seen how bad he looks in Mexico) although he didn't want to sell for anyone and screwed up Sultan's belly-to-belly. Mascaras eliminated Cibernetico at 21:38 and followed throwing Pierroth Jr. out at 21:44. Mascaras then climbed to the top rope and did a plancha on both, thereby eliminating himself at 21:55. They explained that Mascaras didn't know the rules of a Royal Rumble. Bret Hart came out to a huge pop, not selling the ankle injury they made such a big deal about last weekend. I can only assume when the decision was made for Hart not to win, that they didn't want him to look "weak" so they dropped the previously planned angle. Hart got the sharpshooter on Austin when Jerry Lawler, who had been doing the play-by-play, jumped in as the surprise entrant, and he lasted eight seconds, basically long enough to climb in, get punched by Hart (thus releasing the hold on Austin), and take a bump out at 31:06. Mankind suplexed Funk over at 49:17 and Undertaker dumped Mankind at 49:33, leaving Mankind and Funk to brawl. At 50:06, Hart threw Austin over the top but neither referee saw it and Austin got back in, which basically at that point insured what the finish was going to be. Austin dumped Vader, Undertaker and Diesel together at 50:20, and followed by dumping Hart at 50:29 to win the match. ***”

This is legit the Steve Austin show. Leaving this show…you know the Austin train has left the station is that right?

“6. Shawn Michaels captured the WWF title for a second time pinning Sycle Sid in 13:49. The gimmick of Michaels and Jose Lothario coming out in their home towns worked to perfection as he was the total face and Sid the total heel. Shawn did a few nice bumps to carry things, but really the match was carried by the crowd heat as Sid looked really bad and the match was mainly long rest holds that they were able to get away with because of the crowd heat. Sid backdropped Michaels over the top to the floor and gave him a power bomb on the mats on the floor. Sid went after Jose Lothario so his son Pete Lothario jumped the rail but Sid got him around the throat as well. Pat Patterson came out and Sid kicked at him but Patterson didn't sell it. Michaels then jumped on Sid. They got back in the ring but there was a ref bump so no count when Sid choke slammed Michaels. A second ref came out but Michaels kicked out of the pin. Sid knocked out the second ref. He went back after Jose Lothario, but Michaels got a TV camera and hit Sid twice with it but Sid kicked out of the pin for a great near fall tease. However, after a superkick, Michaels got the pin. Post-match celebration for Michaels second title win beat the pants off the celebration for his first win and most world title change wins, which says a lot more for the venue than for the quality of the respective matches. **”

Shawn winning here is really a crowning moment in his career. Was Sid better for this spot than Vader?

What say you Jim? This show is looked back at so fondly because of Austin’s Royal Rumble run and Michaels’ title victory but this isn’t the show of shows is it?